Mathieu Van der Poel

[the delgados]

I just recently came across cyclo-cross and am amazed at the utter dominance shown by MVDP.
It truly is amazing to watch. His technical ability and sheer power makes everyone else looks like they are in the junior category.
I wanted to mention this in the cyclo-cross thread, but realized I would get suspended.
So here goes: WTF!
Does anyone think he could do what he is doing sans a little pick me up (question mark key not working)
Is it his sheer talent alone that makes him win every race he enters.
I am finding that notion hard to believe. I mean, clearly the sport is popular in Europe, so these guys must be making good money. Yet this guy storms away from the field like Armstrong catching Ullrich on a 10 km time trial. I wonder if his opponents dont have the cake to keep up.

 

[rick james]

Excellent proof in your post, that’s me convinced

 

[the delgados]

Re:

of course his dominance stands out...................however this situation is not quite unique

comparing cyclocross to road racing there are much less competing riders...cyclocross is very much

skilled focus + best riders starting at front encourages dominance............

still you're right to wonder..............if only the truth was easily found

Fair enough. After a little bit or research, it is clear that some riders absolutely dominate in a certain era. The Svein guy comes to mind (sorry, cant remember his last name.)
Not casting aspercions, mind you. I believe everyone at the top level of the sport is using something other than bread and water, but this guy is off the charts in terms of performance. Does not mean I hate the guy.
I cant think of another athlete so dominant in their sport (okay, some swimmers and cyclists come to mind) but Im wondering if these guys go through the same regime of drug testing as the road riders.

Also, someone needs to step up their game in the lab.

 

[Echoes]

Doping most probably exists in cyclocross. Or else bike motors as Wout Van Aert has been suspected to use (rightly or wrongly so).

Yet cyclocross is a very hierarchical sport. You would always expected the best to win, the second best to come second, more or less the same guys in the top5 or in the top10.

And for sure, if Mathieu Van der Poel does not have exquisite talent, I don't know anything about cycling. I've been following him since the novice category when he was barely aged 16 (2011) and he already crushed the field both on the road and in the field and he kept on doing so in the junior category, both terrains. Besides, his generation is much stronger than the previous one. About two years ago, most of the old opponents to Nys could barely reach top10, Kevin Pauwels aside. Tom Meeusen said that Sven Nys could be as fast as Van der Poel or Van Aert on one lap but never on a whole race. Plus, both are also potential great roadies which you could hardly say about the previous generation. Nys claimed he could if there weren't so much dope on the road in the noughties (that's his opinion which he need to be careful with). Niels Albert could but far from having Mathieu's or Wout's potential. Same for Styby.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

I agree that Mathieu Van der Poel is highly skilled under many conditions.
The short laps reward anyone who can keep a good rhythm going,
And he has got a different physique from the others - one that lets him maintain an infernal rhythm.
When that is not possible he can crumble to lesser human perfomance:
He got beat this year when there was a substantial hill involved
&
he got beat (by Van Aert ) in last years Worlds when the was too much mud for him.

There are other points
1) the races only last an hour - so stamina is of lesser importance - a motor might not be worth it.
2) drafting teamwork is no a real factor - with all the ups/downs twists/turns.

 

[tobydawq]

Re:

I agree that Mathieu Van der Poel is highly skilled under many conditions.
The short laps reward anyone who can keep a good rhythm going,
And he has got a different physique from the others - one that lets him maintain an infernal rhythm.
When that is not possible he can crumble to lesser human perfomance:
He got beat this year when there was a substantial hill involved
&
he got beat (by Van Aert ) in last years Worlds when the was too much mud for him.

There are other points
1) the races only last an hour - so stamina is of lesser importance - a motor might not be worth it.
2) drafting teamwork is no a real factor - with all the ups/downs twists/turns.

I generally don't understand how such an argument can work in the favour for the athlete in consideration. For example, when Usain Bolt was setting world records, "experts" lauded him and said that he had an advantage due to his height compared to the other sprinters. Nobody seemed to consider why we didn't see a lot of tall guys other than Bolt instead of lower, explosive guys in the sprinting disciplines, if that was so advantageous.

That said, I think van der Poel looks like a perfect bike rider. Perfect technique, perfect physique, perfect genes (world class bike riders on both maternal and paternal side of the family) - he also runs fast.

He's going to give them hell in the spring classics.

 

[proffate]

Isn't CX typically dominated by some rider or other? Same with XC. Hence from a competitive standpoint, both are usually pretty unsuspenseful.

 

[the delgados]

I realize my original post was not worded properly.
Just a couple questions:
Are riders subjected to doping control after a race (qm)
What is the discrepancy of the salary between guys like, MVDP, Van Aert, and pack fillers (qm)
I realize the term pack fillers does not apply to cyclocross, but I am sure you get the point.
Also, guess who won today s race!

 

[glassmoon]

I realize my original post was not worded properly.
Just a couple questions:
Are riders subjected to doping control after a race (qm)
What is the discrepancy of the salary between guys like, MVDP, Van Aert, and pack fillers (qm)
I realize the term pack fillers does not apply to cyclocross, but I am sure you get the point.
Also, guess who won today s race!

of course there are doping controls - CX is under the UCI just like RR. Even the first motor doping (and only one so far within the elite/pro cat.) was uncovered in within the CX
today was a C2 level race - 3rd from the top so somewhat lower level field...

 

[the delgados]

I realize my original post was not worded properly.
Just a couple questions:
Are riders subjected to doping control after a race (qm)
What is the discrepancy of the salary between guys like, MVDP, Van Aert, and pack fillers (qm)
I realize the term pack fillers does not apply to cyclocross, but I am sure you get the point.
Also, guess who won today s race!

of course there are doping controls - CX is under the UCI just like RR. Even the first motor doping (and only one so far within the elite/pro cat.) was uncovered in within the CX
today was a C2 level race - 3rd from the top so somewhat lower level field...

Hey, thanks for the feedback.
I guess now Im curious about the pay scale and how it varies within the top ranks of the sport. Correct me if Im wrong, but I don't think the first motor doping casualty was in the elite pro category. I am pretty sure the rider was in the junior category, but I could be wrong.

 

[glassmoon]

Re:

delgados...........just like pro road racing cx racers are on pro cotracts of vartying size determined by their status

unlike road racing riders are paid appearance fee where organisers share gate receipts............stars are well paid
to ensure their participation..............it what packs in spectators.............those at back of the grid receive little
more than expenses

i believe that belgium lass busted for motor was U23

Just to be punctual, there are no start/appearance money/fee for the World Cup races. For the other races, fees could go up to 15k euros per start/race for MVP while others (WvA included) from top10 usually receive significantly less (under 10k even for WvA if I recall correctly).

 

[the delgados]

The cyclo-cross community today was shocked to learn that Mathieu Van der Poel obliterated his opponents and won the Brussels race by close to a minute.
It was a very close race for about 20 seconds, then MVDP rode away and did not let up until the finish. Insiders and bettors expressed shock that he won by only a minute on a very challenging course. His closest rival, Wout van Aert stayed home today, most likely because he knew there was no point.

 

[tobydawq]

The cyclo-cross community today was shocked to learn that Mathieu Van der Poel obliterated his opponents and won the Brussels race by close to a minute.
It was a very close race for about 20 seconds, then MVDP rode away and did not let up until the finish. Insiders and bettors expressed shock that he won by only a minute on a very challenging course. His closest rival, Wout van Aert stayed home today, most likely because he knew there was no point.

Eh, are we now going to have to hear this every time van der Poel wins when this has been happening for four years?

 

[Ripper]

The cyclo-cross community today was shocked to learn that Mathieu Van der Poel obliterated his opponents and won the Brussels race by close to a minute.
It was a very close race for about 20 seconds, then MVDP rode away and did not let up until the finish. Insiders and bettors expressed shock that he won by only a minute on a very challenging course. His closest rival, Wout van Aert stayed home today, most likely because he knew there was no point.

LOL ... entertaining.

Small correction, WvA raced a different race today d/t a high appearance fee.

 

[the delgados]

The cyclo-cross community today was shocked to learn that Mathieu Van der Poel obliterated his opponents and won the Brussels race by close to a minute.
It was a very close race for about 20 seconds, then MVDP rode away and did not let up until the finish. Insiders and bettors expressed shock that he won by only a minute on a very challenging course. His closest rival, Wout van Aert stayed home today, most likely because he knew there was no point.

Eh, are we now going to have to hear this every time van der Poel wins when this has been happening for four years?

Sorry to offend your sensitivities, tobydawg. Just having a bit of fun while learning about the overall structure of cyclo-cross and how it might relate to doping in the sport.

 

[Ripper]

My quick thoughts ...

MvdP is physically perfectly suited for cx. Short and powerful accelerations are his bread and butter. He is also technically at a ridiculous level. His racing WC XCO over the spring and summer simply adds to his technical skills, his ability to put the power down when others might simply put a foot down, and his endurance for cx (XCO races are generally around 90 minutes). Obviously, he is made for cx. He looks like he has lost weight this year as well, although who really knows there! Worth noting - his road race results are very good, but not dominating. His MTB results are very good, but not dominating.

All this said, the level of insane domination he has in cx is a bit over the top. I'm honestly wondering if he will start lapping the top 10.

 

[tobydawq]

The cyclo-cross community today was shocked to learn that Mathieu Van der Poel obliterated his opponents and won the Brussels race by close to a minute.
It was a very close race for about 20 seconds, then MVDP rode away and did not let up until the finish. Insiders and bettors expressed shock that he won by only a minute on a very challenging course. His closest rival, Wout van Aert stayed home today, most likely because he knew there was no point.

Eh, are we now going to have to hear this every time van der Poel wins when this has been happening for four years?

Sorry to offend your sensitivities, tobydawg. Just having a bit of fun while learning about the overall structure of cyclo-cross and how it might relate to doping in the sport.

I'm just saying it can be a bit repetitive if you need to groan each time he wins, when that happens all the time.

I discovered the sport three years ago. Then, it was more fun because Wout was at a similar level as Mathieu. That has not been the case the past three seasons, however. But this year, it has become excruciatingly one-dimensional. Last weekend, van der Poel crashed in the first lap and had a lot of technical issues and lost a huge amount of positions and time. Three laps later, he had a secure lead. He is just 23 years old, so in that sense it makes sense that he keeps on improving. It's just a bit unfair when he was already the best at 19.

 

[the delgados]

The cyclo-cross community today was shocked to learn that Mathieu Van der Poel obliterated his opponents and won the Brussels race by close to a minute.
It was a very close race for about 20 seconds, then MVDP rode away and did not let up until the finish. Insiders and bettors expressed shock that he won by only a minute on a very challenging course. His closest rival, Wout van Aert stayed home today, most likely because he knew there was no point.

Eh, are we now going to have to hear this every time van der Poel wins when this has been happening for four years?

Sorry to offend your sensitivities, tobydawg. Just having a bit of fun while learning about the overall structure of cyclo-cross and how it might relate to doping in the sport.

I'm just saying it can be a bit repetitive if you need to groan each time he wins, when that happens all the time.

I discovered the sport three years ago. Then, it was more fun because Wout was at a similar level as Mathieu. That has not been the case the past three seasons, however. But this year, it has become excruciatingly one-dimensional. Last weekend, van der Poel crashed in the first lap and had a lot of technical issues and lost a huge amount of positions and time. Three laps later, he had a secure lead. He is just 23 years old, so in that sense it makes sense that he keeps on improving. It's just a bit unfair when he was already the best at 19.

I assure you that I am not groaning when MVDP wins a bike race. On a scale of 1 to 10, my interest in cyclo-cross is a 2.
I have zero amount of emotional investment, nor do I bet on the sport. I just find it remarkable that someone can dominate a pro level sport to the extent that he does. Honestly, I find the spectacle amusing to watch, hence the sarcasm.
That said, I posed some questions. So far you have pretty much tried to shut me down. I am curious to know why.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

The cyclo-cross community today was shocked to learn that Mathieu Van der Poel obliterated his opponents and won the Brussels race by close to a minute.
It was a very close race for about 20 seconds, then MVDP rode away and did not let up until the finish. Insiders and bettors expressed shock that he won by only a minute on a very challenging course. His closest rival, Wout van Aert stayed home today, most likely because he knew there was no point.

One thing to note, the delgados, is that once MVDP has established a gap he generally circulates at the same pace as his nearest rivals and often slackens his pace on the last lap.
He once responded to critics by saying that such a buffer protects him from the consequences of a flat or a mechanical. I think he could make a gap 2 or 3 mins if he really went full out.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Which he did in some earlier DVE trofee race. Can't remember which, but it was 2 minutes.

How that is new, I don't know, because it isn't. Wellens, Nys, Groenendaal, Adri vd Poel, Ronald Liboton, all managed to win crosses with 1 to 2 minutes advantage if they were at their best.

And usually when somebody is really good he dominates entire seasons. Nys did it for almost his entire career.
Plus as somebody else already said, MvdP loses in MTB to Shurter and that other guy Kirschbaumer or something (sorry not good with MTB knowledge). And in road he won his stages but still has everything to prove in the classics. Plus he lost to Trentin in the EC. So not dominating at all there. I simply think aside from Van Aert, who's focus has switched to road more, there is nobody close in talent in cyclocross at the moment. So it becomes a bit one-sided

 

[the delgados]

The cyclo-cross community today was shocked to learn that Mathieu Van der Poel obliterated his opponents and won the Brussels race by close to a minute.
It was a very close race for about 20 seconds, then MVDP rode away and did not let up until the finish. Insiders and bettors expressed shock that he won by only a minute on a very challenging course. His closest rival, Wout van Aert stayed home today, most likely because he knew there was no point.

One thing to note, the delgados, is that once MVDP has established a gap he generally circulates at the same pace as his nearest rivals and often slackens his pace on the last lap.
He once responded to critics by saying that such a buffer protects him from the consequences of a flat or a mechanical. I think he could make a gap 2 or 3 mins if he really went full out.

I am terrible at the internet and am embarrassed to say I dont know how to isolate and post a portion of a post.
The last sentence of your comment stuck out.
After watching maybe twenty cyclo-cross races in my lifetime, I tend to agree that he eases up near the end. There are portions where the guy freewheels in spots where he would be going full gas. He could pretty much walk home in the last section of the race and win.
Again, i am a novice when it comes to this sport, and will defer to those who know way more than me. But given the fact he makes way more money than the pack fillers (which is basically everyone), and given the fact he wins races with ease, I think the question is legit.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Go watch some history, like I said in the post above. Wellens, Nys, etc etc etc all did the same in some seasons. They regularly won with more than 1 minute advantage

 

[Midnightfright]

Re:

Go watch some history, like I said in the post above. Wellens, Nys, etc etc etc all did the same in some seasons. They regularly won with more than 1 minute advantage

I'm only a casual fan of Cyclocross but I echo this. It seems more common than not to have someone dominating. MVDP isn't alone in that regard.

That's not to say he isn't doping , but I don't think we can ignore the fact he is an incredible talent. I fully expect him to be a contender in the Northern Classics in a couple of years. Not sure about this year but wouldn't be shocked

 

[glassmoon]

If you're combination of slightly superior power and superior technical skills you can make a big difference in something like CX/XO. Even on the road one can make 30+ sec gap just by being better downhill. MVP is easily in top2 regarding power but also there seems to be a pretty solid gap between him and others (WvA is imho significantly worse) regarding technical skills.

 

[the delgados]

Re:

Go watch some history, like I said in the post above. Wellens, Nys, etc etc etc all did the same in some seasons. They regularly won with more than 1 minute advantage

I have watched some history. I have mentioned this in at least one previous post.