Mathieu Van der Poel

[Ripper]

cross, with its stop start nature and short high intensity power bursts means that you can gain say 1 sec per corner by the corrrect distribution of power and choosing the correct line........i know this due to my own poor skills and can see a rider of equal fitness put perhaps 15 secs a lap into me due to better technique...being able to haul yourself across the last few metres of a steep mound at about 20 rpm for 3 secs might be the difference in dismounting or not and giving yourself another 2 secs advantage per lap on the one mound

van der poel rides very completely...he is a rider that combines all the elements...and as alluded to by others...he gets beaten where the skillset is similar but slightly different i.e. mtb xc

cross is very different to track and/or froome on a climb

that's not to say he's not doping but your assertions as to why he might be don't seem well formed......we don't have a mid-career sudden remarkable transformation for example......

This is the thing about cx and vdP. He races pretty much all year long off road, he has natural skills to start with, and his physiology is specifically perfect for cx. Perhaps if we see other talents who also start to race year long off road, we'd see more competition.

WvA clearly does not focus too much effort/time on the off road. It's pretty clear he's wasting way more energy and losing seconds here at there, likely 5-10 seconds per lap. In many ways, this is actually good for the depth in cx ... that you cannot win riding away if your technique is not very good. A big issue is the competition at the very top in men's cx is just not as deep as other sports.

This said, I'd not be surprised at all if vdP was doped to the gills! And whenever you ride folks off your wheels on non-technical areas, a la Fabian in PR, it looks very suspicious.

 

[the delgados]

cross, with its stop start nature and short high intensity power bursts means that you can gain say 1 sec per corner by the corrrect distribution of power and choosing the correct line........i know this due to my own poor skills and can see a rider of equal fitness put perhaps 15 secs a lap into me due to better technique...being able to haul yourself across the last few metres of a steep mound at about 20 rpm for 3 secs might be the difference in dismounting or not and giving yourself another 2 secs advantage per lap on the one mound

van der poel rides very completely...he is a rider that combines all the elements...and as alluded to by others...he gets beaten where the skillset is similar but slightly different i.e. mtb xc

cross is very different to track and/or froome on a climb

that's not to say he's not doping but your assertions as to why he might be don't seem well formed......we don't have a mid-career sudden remarkable transformation for example......

This is the thing about cx and vdP. He races pretty much all year long off road, he has natural skills to start with, and his physiology is specifically perfect for cx. Perhaps if we see other talents who also start to race year long off road, we'd see more competition.

WvA clearly does not focus too much effort/time on the off road. It's pretty clear he's wasting way more energy and losing seconds here at there, likely 5-10 seconds per lap. In many ways, this is actually good for the depth in cx ... that you cannot win riding away if your technique is not very good. A big issue is the competition at the very top in men's cx is just not as deep as other sports.

This said, I'd not be surprised at all if vdP was doped to the gills! And whenever you ride folks off your wheels on non-technical areas, a la Fabian in PR, it looks very suspicious.

Heya Ripper
Curious to know where and when you say WvA wastes energy and loses seconds. Also, aside from the suggestion stated, I am curious to know how a world cyclo-cross champ can go from dominance to (relatively speaking) pack filler.

 

[MartinGT]

Delgados. Firstly apologies for mistaking you for someone. I played the man and not the ball.

Secondly what are your thoughts on yesterday's showing from Mr Pidcock? Did you see it? Absolutely dominated and a superb race. The course suited him perfectly. He smashed the CX Nats this year too. You could look at him in the same raised eyebrows as VDP. But for me the kid is a superb talent. He smashed a local TT last year one that had stood for decades and trust me. We have a lot of local hitters here one being Adam Duggleby.

Pidcock has a dream of being elite CX World champ after that I would love to see him on the road more. He's already raced the TDY and one a spring RR last season which was amazing.

Lets just dream eh? I've taken time out from the clinic because it made me bitter and I cba with the sport. Had a few looks in here now and the especially with the Freeman thing coming up.

Have a good day and once again apologies for the attack.

 

[the delgados]

Delgados. Firstly apologies for mistaking you for someone. I played the man and not the ball.

Secondly what are your thoughts on yesterday's showing from Mr Pidcock? Did you see it? Absolutely dominated and a superb race. The course suited him perfectly. He smashed the CX Nats this year too. You could look at him in the same raised eyebrows as VDP. But for me the kid is a superb talent. He smashed a local TT last year one that had stood for decades and trust me. We have a lot of local hitters here one being Adam Duggleby.

Pidcock has a dream of being elite CX World champ after that I would love to see him on the road more. He's already raced the TDY and one a spring RR last season which was amazing.

Lets just dream eh? I've taken time out from the clinic because it made me bitter and I cba with the sport. Had a few looks in here now and the especially with the Freeman thing coming up.

Hey, man. Thank you. It is very rare when someone on the internet owns up to even the simplest of mistakes. That says a lot about you. You seem like the kind of person I would enjoy sitting down with over a beer and chatting about life in general.

The only cyclo-cross WC races I watched this year was the junior and elite men. I am sure I do not have to tell you how that unfolded. But just in case people are unaware, both the junior and elite winners rode away from the field with seeming ease.
The first few laps of the elite men s race was super exciting. I managed to delude myself into the thinking the Spanish guy might grab a medal. But I am stupid. That was never going to happen. The utter dominance shown by MVDP is simply breathtaking. Watching the race made me think about the folks here who actually defend him and say he is clean. Sorry, but in my semi-educated opinion I think that is next to impossible. He obliterated the field of the best riders in the world. Imagine if Chris Froome won solo on an epic mountain stage of the Giro. Oh, wait: We don't need to imagine; it already happened. People here would be up in arms, and rightfully so.
One funny side note is the commentary. The commentator kept referring to the slight mistake the second place finisher and stated that it cost him the race. Uh, no. Wout slipped on a steep section and managed to fix the problem in about two seconds. Sure, it cost him a relatively significant gap, but not one we couldn't close.

I find the spectacle amusing to watch while at the same time admiring the athletic ability of the riders.

 

[the delgados]

Sorry for not isolating separate comments. I tried to quote MartinGT but for some reason each message blended into one.

 

[the delgados]

Re:

random question..............'would an effective programme allow a rider to ride more cleanly.........making less

mistakes with effort less close to threshold?'

interesting a member mentioned schurter..............imagine if a pro tour team issued so many videos promoting

the idea that they trained harder/smarter than anyone else..................

From my admittedly superficial understanding of the effects of PEDs, I will take a stab and say yes. Seems to me the effects of a drug a rider might be taking will allow them to enter a corner or camber with relative ease. By that I mean, they have a heart rate slow enough that their eyeballs are not bulging out while trying to figure out which line in the mud to take.

 

[wansteadimp]

Re:

random question..............'would an effective programme allow a rider to ride more cleanly.........making less

mistakes with effort less close to threshold?'

interesting a member mentioned schurter..............imagine if a pro tour team issued so many videos promoting

the idea that they trained harder/smarter than anyone else..................

Mr Foucade or Mr Boe from biathlon may give a clue here.

Recover faster from a lesser effort = miss fewer targets.

 

[gillan1969]

cross, with its stop start nature and short high intensity power bursts means that you can gain say 1 sec per corner by the corrrect distribution of power and choosing the correct line........i know this due to my own poor skills and can see a rider of equal fitness put perhaps 15 secs a lap into me due to better technique...being able to haul yourself across the last few metres of a steep mound at about 20 rpm for 3 secs might be the difference in dismounting or not and giving yourself another 2 secs advantage per lap on the one mound

van der poel rides very completely...he is a rider that combines all the elements...and as alluded to by others...he gets beaten where the skillset is similar but slightly different i.e. mtb xc

cross is very different to track and/or froome on a climb

that's not to say he's not doping but your assertions as to why he might be don't seem well formed......we don't have a mid-career sudden remarkable transformation for example......

This is the thing about cx and vdP. He races pretty much all year long off road, he has natural skills to start with, and his physiology is specifically perfect for cx. Perhaps if we see other talents who also start to race year long off road, we'd see more competition.

WvA clearly does not focus too much effort/time on the off road. It's pretty clear he's wasting way more energy and losing seconds here at there, likely 5-10 seconds per lap. In many ways, this is actually good for the depth in cx ... that you cannot win riding away if your technique is not very good. A big issue is the competition at the very top in men's cx is just not as deep as other sports.

This said, I'd not be surprised at all if vdP was doped to the gills! And whenever you ride folks off your wheels on non-technical areas, a la Fabian in PR, it looks very suspicious.

Heya Ripper
Curious to know where and when you say WvA wastes energy and loses seconds. Also, aside from the suggestion stated, I am curious to know how a world cyclo-cross champ can go from dominance to (relatively speaking) pack filler.

well a perfect example was the tricky off-camber section (steep down to left) rise in then flat with small hop. onto tarmac. Whatever lap, the two were clear with van Aert on his wheel...VdP clears and van aerts wheel slips...4 secs gone and he's got the gap...same thing next lap. If Van Aert rides it..he stays on his wheel....or if Van Aert struggling to ride it, he makes sure he's in front going into that section as he'll slow VdP down as well should he come off.....As I tried to explain to young son as we watched...you take the 2 secs loss by deliberatly jumping off at your chosen spot...or you gamble riding and then come off not at your point of choosing losing 4/5 secs.......pack filler being a clear silver medal in elite worlds???

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Van Aert is technically still one of the best cyclocross riders. So it's not that he doesn't focus on it or something. Vd Poel is just even better at the technical stuff.

 

[tobydawq]

cross, with its stop start nature and short high intensity power bursts means that you can gain say 1 sec per corner by the corrrect distribution of power and choosing the correct line........i know this due to my own poor skills and can see a rider of equal fitness put perhaps 15 secs a lap into me due to better technique...being able to haul yourself across the last few metres of a steep mound at about 20 rpm for 3 secs might be the difference in dismounting or not and giving yourself another 2 secs advantage per lap on the one mound

van der poel rides very completely...he is a rider that combines all the elements...and as alluded to by others...he gets beaten where the skillset is similar but slightly different i.e. mtb xc

cross is very different to track and/or froome on a climb

that's not to say he's not doping but your assertions as to why he might be don't seem well formed......we don't have a mid-career sudden remarkable transformation for example......

This is the thing about cx and vdP. He races pretty much all year long off road, he has natural skills to start with, and his physiology is specifically perfect for cx. Perhaps if we see other talents who also start to race year long off road, we'd see more competition.

WvA clearly does not focus too much effort/time on the off road. It's pretty clear he's wasting way more energy and losing seconds here at there, likely 5-10 seconds per lap. In many ways, this is actually good for the depth in cx ... that you cannot win riding away if your technique is not very good. A big issue is the competition at the very top in men's cx is just not as deep as other sports.

This said, I'd not be surprised at all if vdP was doped to the gills! And whenever you ride folks off your wheels on non-technical areas, a la Fabian in PR, it looks very suspicious.

Heya Ripper
Curious to know where and when you say WvA wastes energy and loses seconds. Also, aside from the suggestion stated, I am curious to know how a world cyclo-cross champ can go from dominance to (relatively speaking) pack filler.

well a perfect example was the tricky off-camber section (steep down to left) rise in then flat with small hop. onto tarmac. Whatever lap, the two were clear with van Aert on his wheel...VdP clears and van aerts wheel slips...4 secs gone and he's got the gap...same thing next lap. If Van Aert rides it..he stays on his wheel....or if Van Aert struggling to ride it, he makes sure he's in front going into that section as he'll slow VdP down as well should he come off.....As I tried to explain to young son as we watched...you take the 2 secs loss by deliberatly jumping off at your chosen spot...or you gamble riding and then come off not at your point of choosing losing 4/5 secs.......pack filler being a clear silver medal in elite worlds???

In addition, van Aert has much more difficulty jumping the obstacles. When I began watching the sport four years ago, he always ran over them. He has learned to jump them now but it seems much easier and more natural for van der Poel.

And the pack filler thing is obviously just trolling (but he does that a lot). The question could also be flipped? How did Van Aert manage to reduce van der Poel to pack filler in the last three WC's when it each season had been obvious that van der Poel had been the best rider throughout the season?

Maybe we should open a thread about that.

 

[Gung Ho Gun]

In the past seasons, there were always at least some races where Van Aert comprehensively beat Van der Poel, before the Worlds. They were pretty much considered at the same level before last season; and it is assumed that Van Aert's road campaign is the culprit. But even last season, he still had important wins in Zeven, Namur, and Bredene ... this season he's just been off.

 

[the delgados]

Trolling.
I hate that word. The word seems of no consequence since it is used to describe all kinds of online behaviour. But enough of my whining.
The question I asked Ripper was submitted well before the WC. Wout s little mishap obviously cost him dearly. That was plain as day to see. I watched almost every cyclo-cross race this year and don't recall anything as obvious, but of course I could be wrong.
I at least partially answered tobydawgs question a page or two ago after reading and watching results from previous WC races. In one, MVDP suffered four punctures (!) which I think we can all agree would be a significant hurdle to overcome.
Other than that, I think it is an interesting question. Wout was outclassed all year, plain and simple. Hence the pack filler reference.
Yet on big race day he not only closed a fairly big gap, but managed to hang with Mathieu until he momentarily looked like a toddler trying to keep up with daddy. What up with that (qm)

 

[the delgados]

I have a question for Flamin and anyone else who seems to know a lot about cyclo-cross and bike racing in general.
I once had the pleasure to attend Paris-Roubaix and made quick friends with a guy in the velodrome who was a hard core fan of Boonen. This was the year Boonen won solo after Hushovd over-cooked a corner and ended up on his ass.
The guy next to me was clearly a huge fan of the sport and started crying when his main man Boonen entered the velodrome by himself.
He looked to me and grabbed my arm before saying Thor took too many drugs; hence going too quick into a crucial corner. Too much dopage is what he said.
There was a slight language barrier, and I didn't want to interrupt the guy who was super excited about Boonen winning the race, so I did not ask if he was joking.
I guess my question is how many fans know these guys are not riding on bread and water alone. Is it acknowledged among the majority that doping is part of the sport (qm--my keyboard is not working and needs a little dopage)

 

[MartinGT]

Re:

I have a question for Flamin and anyone else who seems to know a lot about cyclo-cross and bike racing in general.
I once had the pleasure to attend Paris-Roubaix and made quick friends with a guy in the velodrome who was a hard core fan of Boonen. This was the year Boonen won solo after Hushovd over-cooked a corner and ended up on his ***.
The guy next to me was clearly a huge fan of the sport and started crying when his main man Boonen entered the velodrome by himself.
He looked to me and grabbed my arm before saying Thor took too many drugs; hence going too quick into a crucial corner. Too much dopage is what he said.
There was a slight language barrier, and I didn't want to interrupt the guy who was super excited about Boonen winning the race, so I did not ask if he was joking.
I guess my question is how many fans know these guys are not riding on bread and water alone. Is it acknowledged among the majority that doping is part of the sport (qm--my keyboard is not working and needs a little dopage)

I met Thor one season at the ToB when he was world champ. A really nice bloke with plenty of time for fans.

Some fans new to the sport seem to think that the (without trying to singing Florence and the Machines) dark days are over and it's now more difficult to dope and get away with it. :lol:

 

[MartinGT]

I've just seen it's the dog's days are over LOL

 

[the delgados]

@MartinGT.
We all know the narrative of the dark days being played out has occurred over and over again. It is amazing how quickly people can be tricked into believing that PEDs have vanished from the top levels of cycling.
Anyone paying attention knows the narrative is nonsense.
My question is: Who the hell are Florence and the Machines

 

[Robert5091]

Re:

@MartinGT.
We all know the narrative of the dark days being played out has occurred over and over again. It is amazing how quickly people can be tricked into believing that PEDs have vanished from the top levels of cycling.
Anyone paying attention knows the narrative is nonsense.
My question is: Who the hell are Florence and the Machines

See answer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florence_and_the_Machine

 

[Ripper]

cross, with its stop start nature and short high intensity power bursts means that you can gain say 1 sec per corner by the corrrect distribution of power and choosing the correct line........i know this due to my own poor skills and can see a rider of equal fitness put perhaps 15 secs a lap into me due to better technique...being able to haul yourself across the last few metres of a steep mound at about 20 rpm for 3 secs might be the difference in dismounting or not and giving yourself another 2 secs advantage per lap on the one mound

van der poel rides very completely...he is a rider that combines all the elements...and as alluded to by others...he gets beaten where the skillset is similar but slightly different i.e. mtb xc

cross is very different to track and/or froome on a climb

that's not to say he's not doping but your assertions as to why he might be don't seem well formed......we don't have a mid-career sudden remarkable transformation for example......

This is the thing about cx and vdP. He races pretty much all year long off road, he has natural skills to start with, and his physiology is specifically perfect for cx. Perhaps if we see other talents who also start to race year long off road, we'd see more competition.

WvA clearly does not focus too much effort/time on the off road. It's pretty clear he's wasting way more energy and losing seconds here at there, likely 5-10 seconds per lap. In many ways, this is actually good for the depth in cx ... that you cannot win riding away if your technique is not very good. A big issue is the competition at the very top in men's cx is just not as deep as other sports.

This said, I'd not be surprised at all if vdP was doped to the gills! And whenever you ride folks off your wheels on non-technical areas, a la Fabian in PR, it looks very suspicious.

Heya Ripper
Curious to know where and when you say WvA wastes energy and loses seconds. Also, aside from the suggestion stated, I am curious to know how a world cyclo-cross champ can go from dominance to (relatively speaking) pack filler.

Hey, well a World Champs example was already given. You can pick these up from any race. Just watch the gaps entering a corner and then following - you'll see a second here, a couple there. I guess another part of it is I've raced cx and have first hand experience at the time and energy wasted on every single corner when one's skills are less than another's.

It seems pretty obvious to me that this past season in particular WvA's skills have gotten rusty, while MvdP's have improved slightly more yet again. MvdP's endurance specific to off road has also improved - a 90 minute MTB race will really extend your cx endurance, whereas a 4-5 hour road race will do nothing in regard to that type of specificity.

 

[proffate]

Power data for CX pros could be pretty interesting since it would cast light on the differences in efficiency between riders, but I don't suppose anyone publishes that.

 

[MartinGT]

Re:

Power data for CX pros could be pretty interesting since it would cast light on the differences in efficiency between riders, but I don't suppose anyone publishes that.

That would be interesting, but do many race with power?

For such a short race is it pointless? They have multiple bikes and most of them, if not all wear watches. So how does that work?

 

[MartinGT]

Re:

Power data for CX pros could be pretty interesting since it would cast light on the differences in efficiency between riders, but I don't suppose anyone publishes that.

That would be interesting, but do many race with power?

For such a short race is it pointless? They have multiple bikes and most of them, if not all wear watches. So how does that work?

 

[orbeas]

Racing cyclo X is all about working out advantages over your competitors .. If I run up a hill 1 second faster than the others then in a 10 lap race will be 10 secs faster before the race starts, if I run over one section 2 secs faster then that is 20 seconds , if I get on and off 1 sec faster 3 times a lap thats 30 secs so before the race starts I will be 1minute faster than the second guy , thats why MVP is so good ..

 

[glassmoon]

Re:

Racing cyclo X is all about working out advantages over your competitors .. If I run up a hill 1 second faster than the others then in a 10 lap race will be 10 secs faster before the race starts, if I run over one section 2 secs faster then that is 20 seconds , if I get on and off 1 sec faster 3 times a lap thats 30 secs so before the race starts I will be 1minute faster than the second guy , thats why MVP is so good ..

+ he can get those extra seconds here and there without wasting extra energy - purely due to his technical abilities. then his competitors need to put extra effort/energy to make up for those seconds section after section, lap after lap. one can do it 2,3,4 times but for the 5th time there simply isn't anything extra left in one's tank and that's it. race over.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Just came across this topic (i only check every so many months in the Clinic).

I don't believe Mathieu is doping. I don't believe Wout is doping (or has been using a motor as someone said). Mathieu has been dominant since he was a kid. Van Aert, at that time, wasn't even a contender, he was physically way behind in his growth, and Mathieu's main rivals were Sweeck and Vantourenhout, if i remember correctly. Since Van Aert caught up with his peers in physicallity and even surpassed them, he has become the only rider to rival van der Poel. At least up until two seasons ago at least. Since the winter of 2017-2018, Van Aert has been working towards his road carreer, and this has been very apparent. He has been reported to weigh 82 kg last week and has worked more on endurance and less on burst efforts.

When you look at 3, 4 and 5 seasons ago, ever since they joined the elite CX peloton, Wout has been Mathieu's contender, unlike Tobydawg claims. The dominance of Mathieu, has resurfaced due to Van Aert's shift in focus, and again, there is noone left to challenge him.

To put things into perspective, i have been watching CX for well over 25 years, and i watch most of the televised races. Going back to van der Poel senior vs Pontoni vs Hereygers vs Groenendael... well before there was ever talks of Nys, Boom, Stybar... and i'm rather convinced that both Mathieu and Wout, eclipse all these riders. The advantage Mathieu has over Van Aert, is that he simply is two (three, four) levels better technically and he has total control of his bike in all situations. Van der Poel wins 5 seconds each lap (easily) due to his bike handling skills. Other riders either have to match that (and in the current CX peloton, there is only one who can, but he can't match the power) on bike handling, or they have to make up for it in effort/power. Van Aert was the only rider who could do that, untill he couldn't anymore.

None of these achievements come out of the blue. Mathieu has been on everyone's radar since he hit puberty. His father was a pro, his grandfather (mother's side) was Raymond Poulidor. Add the fact that he is technically one of the most gifted CX riders, and this is what you get, when the only rider that could match the power output takes a different approach.

He excells at short burst efforts, and at bikehandling. If you put two and two together, you know he can take obstacles and corners at a higher speed (bike handling) and has an easier time accelerating after each of them. Now, do 40 corners/obstacles per lap, and 10 laps per race...

And just like i said in Evenepoel's defence, you' d have to be nothing short of a moron, to win each race with such dominance, if you're actually doping. It would be far more logical to make it less obvious, if that were the case.

 

[the delgados]

Re:

Just came across this topic (i only check every so many months in the Clinic).

I don't believe Mathieu is doping. I don't believe Wout is doping (or has been using a motor as someone said). Mathieu has been dominant since he was a kid. Van Aert, at that time, wasn't even a contender, he was physically way behind in his growth, and Mathieu's main rivals were Sweeck and Vantourenhout, if i remember correctly. Since Van Aert caught up with his peers in physicallity and even surpassed them, he has become the only rider to rival van der Poel. At least up until two seasons ago at least. Since the winter of 2017-2018, Van Aert has been working towards his road carreer, and this has been very apparent. He has been reported to weigh 82 kg last week and has worked more on endurance and less on burst efforts.

When you look at 3, 4 and 5 seasons ago, ever since they joined the elite CX peloton, Wout has been Mathieu's contender, unlike Tobydawg claims. The dominance of Mathieu, has resurfaced due to Van Aert's shift in focus, and again, there is noone left to challenge him.

To put things into perspective, i have been watching CX for well over 25 years, and i watch most of the televised races. Going back to van der Poel senior vs Pontoni vs Hereygers vs Groenendael... well before there was ever talks of Nys, Boom, Stybar... and i'm rather convinced that both Mathieu and Wout, eclipse all these riders. The advantage Mathieu has over Van Aert, is that he simply is two (three, four) levels better technically and he has total control of his bike in all situations. Van der Poel wins 5 seconds each lap (easily) due to his bike handling skills. Other riders either have to match that (and in the current CX peloton, there is only one who can, but he can't match the power) on bike handling, or they have to make up for it in effort/power. Van Aert was the only rider who could do that, untill he couldn't anymore.

None of these achievements come out of the blue. Mathieu has been on everyone's radar since he hit puberty. His father was a pro, his grandfather (mother's side) was Raymond Poulidor. Add the fact that he is technically one of the most gifted CX riders, and this is what you get, when the only rider that could match the power output takes a different approach.

He excells at short burst efforts, and at bikehandling. If you put two and two together, you know he can take obstacles and corners at a higher speed (bike handling) and has an easier time accelerating after each of them. Now, do 40 corners/obstacles per lap, and 10 laps per race...

And just like i said in Evenepoel's defence, you' d have to be nothing short of a moron, to win each race with such dominance, if you're actually doping. It would be far more logical to make it less obvious, if that were the case.

You live up to your username by what you are saying. It is clear that MVDP can ride circles around his closest competitors in terms of bike handling. The man is truly gifted when riding through mud and taking corners in a cyclo-cross race. Only thing I question is the last paragraph of your comment. Your cyclo-cross knowledge far exceeds mine, but it seem s clear to me that MVDP eases up on the last lap of races he won. He freewheels on sections of the last lap that he previously went full gas. There are a few instances where it was obvious he took it easy on the last lap. I am not saying that is evidence of doping; I am just saying that your reasoning does not clear the guy of suspicion.