Mathieu Van der Poel

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proffate said:
Power data for CX pros could be pretty interesting since it would cast light on the differences in efficiency between riders, but I don't suppose anyone publishes that.
That would be interesting, but do many race with power?

For such a short race is it pointless? They have multiple bikes and most of them, if not all wear watches. So how does that work?
 
Nov 29, 2009
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Racing cyclo X is all about working out advantages over your competitors .. If I run up a hill 1 second faster than the others then in a 10 lap race will be 10 secs faster before the race starts, if I run over one section 2 secs faster then that is 20 seconds , if I get on and off 1 sec faster 3 times a lap thats 30 secs so before the race starts I will be 1minute faster than the second guy , thats why MVP is so good ..
 
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orbeas said:
Racing cyclo X is all about working out advantages over your competitors .. If I run up a hill 1 second faster than the others then in a 10 lap race will be 10 secs faster before the race starts, if I run over one section 2 secs faster then that is 20 seconds , if I get on and off 1 sec faster 3 times a lap thats 30 secs so before the race starts I will be 1minute faster than the second guy , thats why MVP is so good ..
+ he can get those extra seconds here and there without wasting extra energy - purely due to his technical abilities. then his competitors need to put extra effort/energy to make up for those seconds section after section, lap after lap. one can do it 2,3,4 times but for the 5th time there simply isn't anything extra left in one's tank and that's it. race over.
 
Aug 2, 2012
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Echoes said:
Yet cyclocross is a very hierarchical sport. You would always expected the best to win, the second best to come second, more or less the same guys in the top5 or in the top10.
unless it's the last race of the season / fans favourite is retiring.................then that favourite who has
not had a sniff of success all season may cruise to victory................

hinted at this question earlier... do fans see 'honest' racing are are things more organised?

cross is very much like a crit after all.....................
 
Just came across this topic (i only check every so many months in the Clinic).

I don't believe Mathieu is doping. I don't believe Wout is doping (or has been using a motor as someone said). Mathieu has been dominant since he was a kid. Van Aert, at that time, wasn't even a contender, he was physically way behind in his growth, and Mathieu's main rivals were Sweeck and Vantourenhout, if i remember correctly. Since Van Aert caught up with his peers in physicallity and even surpassed them, he has become the only rider to rival van der Poel. At least up until two seasons ago at least. Since the winter of 2017-2018, Van Aert has been working towards his road carreer, and this has been very apparent. He has been reported to weigh 82 kg last week and has worked more on endurance and less on burst efforts.

When you look at 3, 4 and 5 seasons ago, ever since they joined the elite CX peloton, Wout has been Mathieu's contender, unlike Tobydawg claims. The dominance of Mathieu, has resurfaced due to Van Aert's shift in focus, and again, there is noone left to challenge him.

To put things into perspective, i have been watching CX for well over 25 years, and i watch most of the televised races. Going back to van der Poel senior vs Pontoni vs Hereygers vs Groenendael... well before there was ever talks of Nys, Boom, Stybar... and i'm rather convinced that both Mathieu and Wout, eclipse all these riders. The advantage Mathieu has over Van Aert, is that he simply is two (three, four) levels better technically and he has total control of his bike in all situations. Van der Poel wins 5 seconds each lap (easily) due to his bike handling skills. Other riders either have to match that (and in the current CX peloton, there is only one who can, but he can't match the power) on bike handling, or they have to make up for it in effort/power. Van Aert was the only rider who could do that, untill he couldn't anymore.

None of these achievements come out of the blue. Mathieu has been on everyone's radar since he hit puberty. His father was a pro, his grandfather (mother's side) was Raymond Poulidor. Add the fact that he is technically one of the most gifted CX riders, and this is what you get, when the only rider that could match the power output takes a different approach.

He excells at short burst efforts, and at bikehandling. If you put two and two together, you know he can take obstacles and corners at a higher speed (bike handling) and has an easier time accelerating after each of them. Now, do 40 corners/obstacles per lap, and 10 laps per race...

And just like i said in Evenepoel's defence, you' d have to be nothing short of a moron, to win each race with such dominance, if you're actually doping. It would be far more logical to make it less obvious, if that were the case.
 
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Logic-is-your-friend said:
Just came across this topic (i only check every so many months in the Clinic).

I don't believe Mathieu is doping. I don't believe Wout is doping (or has been using a motor as someone said). Mathieu has been dominant since he was a kid. Van Aert, at that time, wasn't even a contender, he was physically way behind in his growth, and Mathieu's main rivals were Sweeck and Vantourenhout, if i remember correctly. Since Van Aert caught up with his peers in physicallity and even surpassed them, he has become the only rider to rival van der Poel. At least up until two seasons ago at least. Since the winter of 2017-2018, Van Aert has been working towards his road carreer, and this has been very apparent. He has been reported to weigh 82 kg last week and has worked more on endurance and less on burst efforts.

When you look at 3, 4 and 5 seasons ago, ever since they joined the elite CX peloton, Wout has been Mathieu's contender, unlike Tobydawg claims. The dominance of Mathieu, has resurfaced due to Van Aert's shift in focus, and again, there is noone left to challenge him.

To put things into perspective, i have been watching CX for well over 25 years, and i watch most of the televised races. Going back to van der Poel senior vs Pontoni vs Hereygers vs Groenendael... well before there was ever talks of Nys, Boom, Stybar... and i'm rather convinced that both Mathieu and Wout, eclipse all these riders. The advantage Mathieu has over Van Aert, is that he simply is two (three, four) levels better technically and he has total control of his bike in all situations. Van der Poel wins 5 seconds each lap (easily) due to his bike handling skills. Other riders either have to match that (and in the current CX peloton, there is only one who can, but he can't match the power) on bike handling, or they have to make up for it in effort/power. Van Aert was the only rider who could do that, untill he couldn't anymore.

None of these achievements come out of the blue. Mathieu has been on everyone's radar since he hit puberty. His father was a pro, his grandfather (mother's side) was Raymond Poulidor. Add the fact that he is technically one of the most gifted CX riders, and this is what you get, when the only rider that could match the power output takes a different approach.

He excells at short burst efforts, and at bikehandling. If you put two and two together, you know he can take obstacles and corners at a higher speed (bike handling) and has an easier time accelerating after each of them. Now, do 40 corners/obstacles per lap, and 10 laps per race...

And just like i said in Evenepoel's defence, you' d have to be nothing short of a moron, to win each race with such dominance, if you're actually doping. It would be far more logical to make it less obvious, if that were the case.
You live up to your username by what you are saying. It is clear that MVDP can ride circles around his closest competitors in terms of bike handling. The man is truly gifted when riding through mud and taking corners in a cyclo-cross race. Only thing I question is the last paragraph of your comment. Your cyclo-cross knowledge far exceeds mine, but it seem s clear to me that MVDP eases up on the last lap of races he won. He freewheels on sections of the last lap that he previously went full gas. There are a few instances where it was obvious he took it easy on the last lap. I am not saying that is evidence of doping; I am just saying that your reasoning does not clear the guy of suspicion.
 
There is no reason to finish 2 minutes ahead. He has a long season, CX, Road and mountainbike. No need to overdo it. He doesn't hold back in the final laps to avoid suspicion, but to conserve energy. Holding back the final lap would not make it less suspicious.
 
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Logic-is-your-friend said:
There is no reason to finish 2 minutes ahead. He has a long season, CX, Road and mountainbike. No need to overdo it. He doesn't hold back in the final laps to avoid suspicion, but to conserve energy. Holding back the final lap would not make it less suspicious.
truth
 
Limitless energy.

Again, I know and understand all the arguments in favour of him being clean. Again, in general I'm not sure. But in a race like Ronde, crashing and chasing when he did, still throwing in digs, and then still sprinting well, is just a bit much.
 
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Ripper said:
Limitless energy.

Again, I know and understand all the arguments in favour of him being clean. Again, in general I'm not sure. But in a race like Ronde, crashing and chasing when he did, still throwing in digs, and then still sprinting well, is just a bit much.

He personifies the term Platonic ideal (assuming he is clean as a whistle, which I highly doubt)
Lovely to watch with a grain of salt.
 
Making world class riders look second rate must be cause for some concern. That was one of the most impressive/outlandish rides I have seen. In clinic terms that must be a red flag. He's hellish exciting to watch, I'll give him that.
 
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armchairclimber said:
Making world class riders look second rate must be cause for some concern. That was one of the most impressive/outlandish rides I have seen. In clinic terms that must be a red flag. He's hellish exciting to watch, I'll give him that.
No doubting he is a fun rider to watch, classy, has a lot of passion, and seems nice too.

I just rewatched the footage and outlandish is a good term. Lots of fans getting all excited about how he might have been the strongest rider in the race/had the most impressive ride of the day. I honestly just find it a bit worrisome. To have finished 4th without the crash would have been hugely impressive. But a crash like that, happening that close to the finish, tends to completely scuttle one's chances. So his ability to warp speed it back to the group, attack that group repeatedly, and then get second in the field sprint, is pretty interesting.
 
Aug 2, 2012
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............anyone willing to stake very much on his father always being clean.................?
 
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ebandit said:
............anyone willing to stake very much on his father always being clean.................?
He was caught twice during his career and later exposed to have used EPO. Also, his team manager Roodthooft was caught in possession of doping (something light but then again, he wasn't exactly a high profile rider). So his entourage definitely casts shadows.
 
Aug 2, 2012
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Gung Ho Gun said:
ebandit said:
............anyone willing to stake very much on his father always being clean.................?
He was caught twice during his career and later exposed to have used EPO. Also, his team manager Roodthooft was caught in possession of doping (something light but then again, he wasn't exactly a high profile rider). So his entourage definitely casts shadows.
aye! his father seems close...rather busts 'the early development' myth....
 
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gillan1969 said:
i didn't see all the coverage but the bit I did saw him well ensconsed behind a fast moving team car (with team mate - for the last bridge?) after his fall....
Yep, with out delving into Pharma related discussions, the comeback was more reminiscent of Demare at MSR, Nibali at the Firenze Worlds or Nibali at the Vuelta .....
 
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Gung Ho Gun said:
ebandit said:
............anyone willing to stake very much on his father always being clean.................?
He was caught twice during his career and later exposed to have used EPO. Also, his team manager Roodthooft was caught in possession of doping (something light but then again, he wasn't exactly a high profile rider). So his entourage definitely casts shadows.

Jasus every rider over a certain age was not clean so that does not answer anything .just look around every team has previous doping DSs and managers
MVdP has amazing pedigree from his maternal grandfather and his father
 
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HelloDolly said:
Gung Ho Gun said:
ebandit said:
............anyone willing to stake very much on his father always being clean.................?
He was caught twice during his career and later exposed to have used EPO. Also, his team manager Roodthooft was caught in possession of doping (something light but then again, he wasn't exactly a high profile rider). So his entourage definitely casts shadows.

Jasus every rider over a certain age was not clean so that does not answer anything .just look around every team has previous doping DSs and managers
MVdP has amazing pedigree from his maternal grandfather and his father
With those good responder genes how can he go wrong? /s
 
Re: Re:

HelloDolly said:
Jasus every rider over a certain age was not clean so that does not answer anything .just look around every team has previous doping DSs and managers
MVdP has amazing pedigree from his maternal grandfather and his father
Having a pedigree says nothing about whether he's doping. One can have a great pedigree and be either clean or doping. Having a great pedigree explains why you're in the game. It allows that you have gotten good advice and training, you've probably gotten good genetics, and you're an insider. It does not explain away incredible performances, nor does it mean one's insider status = doping.

It would tend to indicate easy access to doping methods and substances, but confirms nothing in this regard.

The notion that cleanliness was a bigger issue for those of "a certain age" strikes me as wishful thinking. I've been hearing that doping was something from the past for at least 35 years. It's possible, that things are better now. It's almost certain that top riders are still doping to get top results, particularly in stage races...but not limited to them.
 
I think this will just get more and more entertaining.

And while he is an entertaining rider to watch, he seems to elicit a strong fanboy response. Which itself will also be entertaining.
 
Ripper said:
I think this will just get more and more entertaining.

And while he is an entertaining rider to watch, he seems to elicit a strong fanboy response. Which itself will also be entertaining.
Agreed. I am surprised by the amount of commenters who give him the benefit of the doubt. It really is mind boggling, especially when you consider the history of doping in cycling and the absolute dominance shown by MVDP. Good lord, man. This guy has to be on some next level schit.
I guess its fun to pretend.
 
the delgados said:
Ripper said:
I think this will just get more and more entertaining.

And while he is an entertaining rider to watch, he seems to elicit a strong fanboy response. Which itself will also be entertaining.
Agreed. I am surprised by the amount of commenters who give him the benefit of the doubt. It really is mind boggling, especially when you consider the history of doping in cycling and the absolute dominance shown by MVDP. Good lord, man. This guy has to be on some next level schit.
I guess its fun to pretend.
Your man, CK, Stephens etc. They all have mortgages etc to pay. They don't want to ostracise themselves. Him and Alaphillipe are certainly smashing it at the moment.

But, then you have to look at the pedigree of stock that MVDP has come from and compare it to someone like the Dawg.
 

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