Media Coverage of the TDF / Doping

[Cycle Chic]

Thought it'd be good to have a thread with links to all the relevant media coverage rather that it getting buried in various other threads. Good articles are often missed. Be useful to have articles found in the major newspapers like Gazzetto dello Sport and Le Monde...whats being said in the Danish, Belgian papers etc.

Science of Sport - Journalists still not doing their job

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=642467979097578&id=213103522034028


'Froome couldn't afford bike as child in Kenya''

http://asia.eurosport.com/cycling/t...bike-as-child-in-kenya_sto3834985/story.shtml

Tour de France 2013: the incredible rise of Chris Froome - and how he was almost killed by a hippo

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...-and-how-he-was-almost-killed-by-a-hippo.html

and the latest in the Froome Only thread

Danish professor: Froome is abnormally strong

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=da&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=da&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fsporten.tv2.dk%2Ftour%2F2013-07-13-dansk-professor-froome-er-unormalt-st%25C3%25A6rk

 

[ebandit]

?

what doping?

Mark L

 

[sniper]

Today on the Avondetappe Mollema was asked if he dopes. I don't think he would have passed a lie detector test the way he answered it. His eyes and head were suddenly all over the place.

Tomorrow de Avondetappe will broadcast an interview with Matschiner in which he will say, a.o., this: "of course Mollema and Ten Dam dope, and so do the German sprinters. Why wouldn't they?"

 

[BigMac]

Today on the Avondetappe Mollema was asked if he dopes. I don't think he would have passed a lie detector test the way he answered it. His eyes and head were suddenly all over the place.

Tomorrow de Avondetappe will broadcast an interview with Matschiner in which he will say, a.o., this: "of course Mollema and Ten Dam dope, and so do the German sprinters. Why wouldn't they?"

That is Bauke's normal eye behavior. Its just like he sees 'things' all over the place, so no way h... Oh... right...

 

[MizunoMX20]

Today on the Avondetappe Mollema was asked if he dopes. I don't think he would have passed a lie detector test the way he answered it. His eyes and head were suddenly all over the place.

Tomorrow de Avondetappe will broadcast an interview with Matschiner in which he will say, a.o., this: "of course Mollema and Ten Dam dope, and so do the German sprinters. Why wouldn't they?"

A sniplet of the interview with Matschiner is available online and a larger part was broadcasted just now on TV.

He also mentioned there was a new and undetectable drugs on the market, "which makes mice able to swim". The Dutch television subtitled it as ICA

But of course he has a point wrt his skepticism towards any well riding rider and in this case Mollema and Ten Dam, and that national media generally do not even want to touch the subject of doping when discussing the performances of the new generation of Dutch riders.

Oh yeah and whats been really annoying lately is that a lot of people have ferociously stood up for LA all of a sudden, in multiple Dutch sports programmes. For instance the former coach of Leontien van Moorsel sad something along the lines of "What really bothers me is how we recently have slaughtered the best cyclist to have ever lived: Lance Armstrong. Its time to put the man on a statue". Kind of makes you wonder about van Moorsel's performances as well

And then all of the audience started clapping and cheering. I mean WTF

 

[BigMac]

[...]

And then all of the audience started clapping and cheering. I mean WTF

I am not particularly familiarized with that program but is it cycling or at least sport related? If not maybe the audience was cheering just because.

 

[Cycle Chic]

NOS on Froome

Inner Ring just posted up NOS interview with Froome. Dutch to begin with but interview in English. Inner Ring noted the Bilharzia reference towards the end and Froome's explanation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bKuqFBrE9o

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Oh yeah and whats been really annoying lately is that a lot of people have ferociously stood up for LA all of a sudden, in multiple Dutch sports programmes. For instance the former coach of Leontien van Moorsel sad something along the lines of "What really bothers me is how we recently have slaughtered the best cyclist to have ever lived: Lance Armstrong. Its time to put the man on a statue". Kind of makes you wonder about van Moorsel's performances as well

And then all of the audience started clapping and cheering. I mean WTF

Where was that? Tour du Jour?

Did you see Leontien there being cross examined on the Monique Knol revalations on riders who suddenly were so much better?

 

[MizunoMX20]

Where was that? Tour du Jour?

Did you see Leontien there being cross examined on the Monique Knol revalations on riders who suddenly were so much better?

yeah it was tour du jour. to be honest i just watch it because Eddy Planckaert is so funny. But tour du jour really is style over substance.

I find that since this year I cant watch Avondettape anymore, dont know why, perhaps b/c the romantic aspect of cycling that Mart always puts on the forefront is not that romantic to me anymore. And it seems most guests have blinders on wrt doping or possibly doped performances.

well i guess i'm sorry for myself in dont believe in miracles anymore. that i cant dream big. and that ive become a cinic and a sceptic

but what was this cross examination?

 

[sniper]

A sniplet of the interview with Matschiner is available online and a larger part was broadcasted just now on TV.

He also mentioned there was a new and undetectable drugs on the market, "which makes mice able to swim". The Dutch television subtitled it as ICA

But of course he has a point wrt his skepticism towards any well riding rider and in this case Mollema and Ten Dam, and that national media generally do not even want to touch the subject of doping when discussing the performances of the new generation of Dutch riders.

Oh yeah and whats been really annoying lately is that a lot of people have ferociously stood up for LA all of a sudden, in multiple Dutch sports programmes. For instance the former coach of Leontien van Moorsel sad something along the lines of "What really bothers me is how we recently have slaughtered the best cyclist to have ever lived: Lance Armstrong. Its time to put the man on a statue". Kind of makes you wonder about van Moorsel's performances as well

And then all of the audience started clapping and cheering. I mean WTF

+1
good observations.
there can't really be any doubt that Van Moorsel doped, and that statement by her coach really nails it.

The level of ignorance of the speakers in the Avondetappe is jawdropping. I do appreciate that the topic of doping is being touched upon so regularly now, but the quality of the discussions is deplorable (although Zonneveld occasionally shows a more realistic view on things).

If someone like Winnie Sorgdrager is put in charge of the investigation into doping in Dutch cycling, then you know that nobody is really interested in getting to the bottom of this.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

yeah it was tour du jour. to be honest i just watch it because Eddy Planckaert is so funny. But tour du jour really is style over substance.

I find that since this year I cant watch Avondettape anymore, dont know why, perhaps b/c the romantic aspect of cycling that Mart always puts on the forefront is not that romantic to me anymore. And it seems most guests have blinders on wrt doping or possibly doped performances.

well i guess i'm sorry for myself in dont believe in miracles anymore. that i cant dream big. and that ive become a cinic and a sceptic

but what was this cross examination?

Sporza is also crap this year, Mart has been crap for years, Tour du Jour is so crappy, even Eddie cant raise the bar there. Watched five minutes tonight with that horrible Gert Jacobs, that is too much chauvinism for me.

Leontien was presented with the Monique Knol quotes about a rider who was always less than Knol and suddenly was soooo much better, and wearing armcoates no matter what the weather was/needle marks. Leontien had no idea who Knol was referring to, it looked to me she was lying through her teeth. Of course Knol was pointing at van Moorsel when she was interviewed.

 

[MizunoMX20]

+1
good observations.
there can't really be any doubt that Van Moorsel doped, and that statement by her coach really nails it.

The level of ignorance of the speakers in the Avondetappe is jawdropping. I do appreciate that the topic of doping is being touched upon so regularly now, but the quality of the discussions is deplorable (although Zonneveld occasionally shows a more realistic view on things).

If someone like Winnie Sorgdrager is put in charge of the investigation into doping in Dutch cycling, then you know that nobody is really interested in getting to the bottom of this.

yeah exactly.

im not sure if i heard it correctly b/c i was only half paying attention, but did she say something along the lines of "its too bad that former riders who doped are stripped of their titles"??

i agree that zonneveld is ok but he gets sucked into mediocrity by the rest of the guests and of course Mart is quick to interrupt any interesting discussion with "time for the rebus" or whatever

i actually felt a bit sorry for Mart when he was attacked at DWDD, since i can somehow understand he got fooled by the whole lance sage, b/c i had always believed in LA myself and i aint stupid either. just that i (and so probably he as well) didnt really look any further than just on the surface. admittedly reading the clinic has really been eye opening in that regard.

but Mart lost all credibility with that david walsh interview. the conclusion was that david walsh was a lousy journalist because he lost the lawsuit against LA in 2004 or whenever???? i mean come on. sleep well mart and goodbye

 

[iejeecee]

+1
If someone like Winnie Sorgdrager is put in charge of the investigation into doping in Dutch cycling, then you know that nobody is really interested in getting to the bottom of this.

Uhh, I think in the case of Rabobank the dutch media did a pretty good job in digging up the dirt. Of course years too late, and conveniently ignoring all the other doped up sports (football, swimming, speed skating etc).

At-least we got some confessions and stuff, more then I can say about some of the countries around us

 

[MizunoMX20]

Uhh, I think in the case of Rabobank the dutch media did a pretty good job in digging up the dirt. Of course years too late, and conveniently ignoring all the other doped up sports (football, swimming, speed skating etc).

At-least we got some confessions and stuff, more then I can say about some of the countries around us

wow we got some confessions

wheres all the titles being stripped from for instance Michael Boogerd?

or wheres the lawsuit against geert leinders?

i mean people often talk in a derogative way about for instance spain and italy wrt doping and the acceptance of it in those countries. but at least IMO CONI and the justice system in Spain take real action.

other than sorgdragers "we anonymously interviewed xxxx number of riders and found that 95% doped"

a joke is what it is

 

[iejeecee]

wow we got some confessions

wheres all the titles being stripped from for instance Michael Boogerd?

or wheres the lawsuit against geert leinders?

i mean people often talk in a derogative way about for instance spain and italy wrt doping and the acceptance of it in those countries. but at least IMO CONI and the justice system in Spain take real action.

other than sorgdragers "we anonymously interviewed xxxx number of riders and found that 95% doped"

a joke is what it is

I wasn't talking about Spain or Italy. More like Belgium, Germany and the UK

 

[MizunoMX20]

I wasn't talking about Spain or Italy. More like Belgium, Germany and the UK

ok fair enough

 

[Arnout]

What bugs me most is that journalists still seem to view drug testing as the absolute truth. If there's one thing that we have learned this winter...

 

[gthx_gthx_]

What bugs me most is that journalists still seem to view drug testing as the absolute truth. If there's one thing that we have learned this winter...

Presumption of innocence is the absolute truth.
The test may be ineffective or manipulated , but journalist can't do otherwise , they can't accuse anyone if they don't have solid proof. That's defamation.

 

[mikehammer67]

Presumption of innocence is the absolute truth.
The test may be ineffective or manipulated , but journalist can't do otherwise , they can't accuse anyone if they don't have solid proof. That's defamation.

kimmage does it

 

[Benotti69]

What bugs me most is that journalists still seem to view drug testing as the absolute truth. If there's one thing that we have learned this winter...

Not always. David Walsh, along with Kimmage and antoehr journalist witness the 'unbelievable' performances of an Irish Swimmer at the Atlanta olympics, she came from nowhere and won 4 medals, 3golds and a bronze. The 3 journalists asked around about a swimmer no one heard of before, saw her previous best times and came to a conclusion, doping and wrote about it. The Irish nation hung them out to dry. Then Smith was caught by an OOC test where she filled her urine sample with whiskey.

I dont see much difference between a guy like Froome who came out of nowhere and Smith. Beating the performance of recent dopers aint credible.

Walsh somehow no longer see sporting performances such a these as 'unbelievable' in the true sense of the word. I suppose he hopes to retire at 60, maybe go into sporting PR........

Presumption of innocence is the absolute truth.
The test may be ineffective or manipulated , but journalist can't do otherwise , they can't accuse anyone if they don't have solid proof. That's defamation.

Journalists can write in a way that points to a conclusion being drawn without pointing the finger.

That Walsh accepts Froome is able to beat EPO fuelled, UCI blessed dopers times and not blink is outrageous.

 

[martinvickers]

Not always. David Walsh, along with Kimmage and antoehr journalist witness the 'unbelievable' performances of an Irish Swimmer at the Atlanta olympics, she came from nowhere and won 4 medals, 3golds and a bronze. The 3 journalists asked around about a swimmer no one heard of before, saw her previous best times and came to a conclusion, doping and wrote about it. The Irish nation hung them out to dry. Then Smith was caught by an OOC test where she filled her urine sample with whiskey.

I don't see much difference between a guy like Froome who came out of nowhere and Smith. Beating the performance of recent dopers aint credible.
.

Female swimmers tend to peak, or come to world attention at a far younger age than male cyclists. Smyth De Bruin came through at what, 26, 27? I can see the connection with Froome, sure - but even his performances are not as sheer odd as the Smyth De Bruin Atlanta hat-trick - plus none of Froome's associates, not even Leinders, are quite as brazen as Erik de Bruin, the real 'supervillian' in the piece.

And to be fair, both Kimmage and the 'other journalist' were far more direct about Michelle than even Kimmage is about Froome, or Sky, today - Kimamge is far more 'worried, suspciious, i just don't know' about Froome, and that's all fair.

Michelle was 'catch a grip, she's cheating'. Janet Evans was unusually vocal too, and that was not the done thing then - it was pre Festina, after all, even if it was post big Ben Johnson.

And we don't really speak of that 'other journalist', if it's the one I think it is....more telling was RTÉ shutting up Gary O'Toole

RTE's swimming expert, Gary O'Toole, an ex-swimmer who had become a physician, had more than a slight suspicion that something wasn't quite right but was told by the national broadcaster to keep such thoughts to himself when analysing Smith's victories.

As he explained to the Chicago Tribune in 2000: "The directive came down that nobody was to discuss drugs and Michelle Smith on national television.
"In a way for me at the time, it was great. I knew everything about drugs. Everything. I worked with them all through medical school.
"It suited me not to talk about it because if you've got 1.5 million TV sets tuned in to watch someone achieve something, you don't want to be the one to burst the bubble."

However, soon even the Irish press were starting to ask questions. Paul Kimmage, an ex-cyclist who wrote a controversial book exposing drug use in his former sport, was one of the first to express his doubts.
Writing for the biggest selling newspaper in the country – the Sunday Independent – Kimmage told the nation to "take their heads out of the sand" when it came to the Smith issue.

Another high-profile Irish journalist briefly quit his position at the Irish Times because they refused to publish two columns of his that questioned Smith's achievements.

 

[Benotti69]

Female swimmers tend to peak, or come to world attention at a far younger age than male cyclists. Smyth De Bruin came through at what, 26, 27? I can see the connection with Froome, sure - but even his performances are not as sheer odd as the Smyth De Bruin Atlanta hat-trick - plus none of Froome's associates, not even Leinders, are quite as brazen as Erik de Bruin, the real 'supervillian' in the piece.

And to be fair, both Kimmage and the 'other journalist' were far more direct about Michelle than even Kimmage is about Froome, or Sky, today - Kimamge is far more 'worried, suspciious, i just don't know' about Froome, and that's all fair.

Michelle was 'catch a grip, she's cheating'. Janet Evans was unusually vocal too, and that was not the done thing then - it was pre Festina, after all, even if it was post big Ben Johnson.

And we don't really speak of that 'other journalist', if it's the one I think it is....more telling was RTÉ shutting up Gary O'Toole

GT winners show their ability at a young age. Not in their mid to late 20's.

I think the Smith De bruin and Froome comparison apt.

Sky have been rewriting Froome's history with a lovely cover up story of his bilharzia. Not doubting whether he had it but whether he had to the extent they are playing on it. How he finished races while at barloworld if this thing was so bad and untreated in a peloton with Contador at his 'best', Schleck's riding 'high' and all around 'flying' seems to indicate the bilharzia was not affecting him that much.

But ah sure Walsh doesn't seem interested in stuff like that.

Plenty have been vocal about Froome, plenty of 'psuedo scientists' like Antone Vayer and Ross Tucker doing a Janet Evans and Gary O'Toole, but hey in cycling it is easier to ignore that when the new golden goose it sitting ons ome lovely fresh ones.

Sky have edited and cleaned up the USPS book on winning the TdF.

 

[martinvickers]

GT winners show their ability at a young age. Not in their mid to late 20's.

We have no idea what 'clean' GT winners do - we've barely had any, ever. Pantani podiumed three times in the Girobio and was a medical experiment from the start.

The last three on the road winners of the tour, all first time winners, that don't (yet) have a positive against their names were average aged 33 - 32, 34, 33 in that order. If anything, Froome is worryingly young!

I think the Smith De bruin and Froome comparison apt.

As my old master used to say, I don't care what you THINK, I care what you can prove.

Sky have been rewriting Froome's history with a lovely cover up story of his bilharzia. Not doubting whether he had it but whether he had to the extent they are playing on it. How he finished races while at barloworld if this thing was so bad and untreated in a peloton with Contador at his 'best', Schleck's riding 'high' and all around 'flying' seems to indicate the bilharzia was not affecting him that much.

Not sure I get your point here.

Plenty have been vocal about Froome, plenty of 'psuedo scientists' like Antone Vayer and Ross Tucker doing a Janet Evans and Gary O'Toole, but hey in cycling it is easier to ignore that when the new golden goose it sitting ons ome lovely fresh ones.

Tucker has been nowhere near as 'definite' as you want him to be, or as Evans and O'Toole were. As for Vayer, I'm afraid I have my doubts about his usefulness, but we'll grant he's certainly making the accusation.

Janet Evans was specifically a competitior of De Bruin who was beaten by her in Atlanta. Who has Froome beaten that has turned round and made the accusation? with sources, please.

Sky have edited and cleaned up the USPS book on winning the TdF.

Opinons are like a***holes, aren't they.

 

[Benotti69]

We have no idea what 'clean' GT winners do - we've barely had any, ever. Pantani podiumed three times in the Girobio and was a medical experiment from the start.

LeMond, Fignon, Hinault, Bartali there are lots who showed that kind of 3 weeks ability, which cannot be learnt or trained for. The body has it naturally or doesn't.

The last three on the road winners of the tour, all first time winners, that don't (yet) have a positive against their names were average aged 33 - 32, 34, 33 in that order. If anything, Froome is worryingly young!

Since when did a positive ever prove anything in cycling. Stupid argument to make in a sport rife with doping. The last 3 winners all have questions over them.

As my old master used to say, I don't care what you THINK, I care what you can prove.

Meh, this is a forum, opinions can be expressed freely. Proof is hard to find where the UCI run it like a protection racket. As for quoting your old master, meh, again Armstrong avoided the proof for years and the UCI, ASO all ignored the proof for years.

Not sure I get your point here.

Tucker has been nowhere near as 'definite' as you want him to be, or as Evans and O'Toole were. As for Vayer, I'm afraid I have my doubts about his usefulness, but we'll grant he's certainly making the accusation.

Tucker has questioned Froome's abiltiy to ride that time up Ax3. Sky knew he was going to be fast and prempted it with Brailsford and Kerrison saying that Froome has 'evolved' to be fast enough to beat dopers. Of course they produced no evidence of how this is possible, but their word is as taken as fact.

Janet Evans was specifically a competitior of De Bruin who was beaten by her in Atlanta. Who has Froome beaten that has turned round and made the accusation? with sources, please.

If anyone did that in cycling they would be accused of being a bad loser.

Evans, Contador, Basso, Pinoti and others have all made comments about Sky. All been reported in mainstream cycling media.

Opinons are like a***holes, aren't they.

Every paid liar.........

 

[blackcat]

Opinons are like @rseholes, aren't they?

what? dirty or bleached?

genitals are actually cleaner than mouths. especially if you are a cyclist. nothing clean in truth for a cyclist.