Men's U23 races and talents

[BR2]

We aren't talking about banning them for life, are we?
But I think some outrage is justified. These pictures ridicule the sport, and although it's not the biggest race it's big enough to be a scandal.

 

[Brullnux]

Before we get caught up in the outrage, I think it's important not to forget that this is very, very funny.

Massive respect to all the riders who did it, especially those who did it for more than 50% of the climb.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

Before we get caught up in the outrage, I think it's important not to forget that this is very, very funny.

Massive respect to all the riders who did it, especially those who did it for more than 50% of the climb.

Yes, now imagine that the riders all switch to E-Bikes instead (after they were dropped and are out of the fight for the win of course) and sometimes switch power on or off like they‘re sometimes hanging onto a car and then letting go again. It would be funny, but it‘s also ridiculously unsportsmanlike.

 

[Brullnux]

Yes, now imagine that the riders all switch to E-Bikes instead (after they were dropped and are out of the fight for the win of course) and sometimes switch power on or off like they‘re sometimes hanging onto a car and then letting go again. It would be funny, but it‘s also ridiculously unsportsmanlike.

Yes, now imagine that isn't what happened and they've all been DQed anyway.

 

[Brullnux]

You could say the same about most clinic-related issues. It isn't a huge crime in the grand scheme of things, but it's cheating. And maybe holding on to a car for a large part of a climb is actually worse than a lot of doping offenses.

Holding onto a car for a climb and coming 123rd 25 minutes down is worse than doping?

It's more embarassing than doping , sure. But really I think the 'integrity' of the sport is completely unharmed, it's just very embarassing. It's not like it's cheating to gain an advantage, they're just lazy.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

Yes, now imagine that isn't what happened and they've all been DQed anyway.

Wow, they‘ve been DQd for something that takes less cycling than riding an E-Bike? If you don‘t pedal up the Stelvio when the Stelvio is in the race, you can‘t start the next day, that‘s stage racing anyway.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Looks like the Italian federation will no longer ask RCS to invite at least around 50% Italian u23 teams after this one...

I do question your pride as an athlete if you do stuff like this.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Surely it adds to the mythical nature of Stelvio, that it's apparently so tough that riders have to hold on to cars or motos to survive.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Holding onto a car for a climb and coming 123rd 25 minutes down is worse than doping?

It's more embarassing than doping , sure. But really I think the 'integrity' of the sport is completely unharmed, it's just very embarassing. It's not like it's cheating to gain an advantage, they're just lazy.

Say Van Aert and Benoot are getting free rides in the hardest MTF stages of the Tour, while Kuss stays with Vingegaard. And then the next day Van Aert and Benoot are fresh like a daisy and go thermonuclear in a tough mountain stage with Vingegaard in their wheel... how would that not be cheating or gaining an advantage. Or if the entire leadout of Jakobsen is allowed to hang onto a car, because they otherwise would have been taken out of the race, and Jakobsen wins on Champs Elysees thanks to his complete leadout train, while Philipsen and Groenewegen have nobody left to do a leadout because they were all OTL. How is that not cheating or gaining an advantage?

 

[Brullnux]

Say Van Aert and Benoot are getting free rides in the hardest MTF stages of the Tour, while Kuss stays with Vingegaard. And then the next day Van Aert and Benoot are fresh like a daisy and go thermonuclear in a tough mountain stage with Vingegaard in their wheel... how would that not be cheating or gaining an advantage. Or if the entire leadout of Jakobsen is allowed to hang onto a car, because they otherwise would have been taken out of the race, and Jakobsen wins on Champs Elysees thanks to his complete leadout train, while Philipsen and Groenewegen have nobody left to do a leadout because they were all OTL. How is that not cheating or gaining an advantage?

This isn't a hypothetical question about the Tour de France, this is about what actually happened yesterday. In your example yeah they're gaining an advantage.

In this case (which actually happened) pretty much every rider involved is on a club team who won't feature in any other stage at any point, and the energy needed to stay within the time limit is, tbh, not massive. They cheated as it's against the rules, but there's nothing to scandalise about as they're basically irrelevant to the race.

It's embarassing, sure, but in this *actual* scenario it's really not deep. 15% of them will make it onto a continental tour team, the rest will be Cat 1 riders.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

This isn't a hypothetical question about the Tour de France, this is about what actually happened yesterday. In your example yeah they're gaining an advantage.

In this case (which actually happened) pretty much every rider involved is on a club team who won't feature in any other stage at any point, and the energy needed to stay within the time limit is, tbh, not massive. They cheated as it's against the rules, but there's nothing to scandalise about as they're basically irrelevant to the race.

It's embarassing, sure, but in this *actual* scenario it's really not deep. 15% of them will make it onto a continental tour team, the rest will be Cat 1 riders.

So if you are not a good rider, you can cheat or at least it's not a big deal. You generally can't tell what the advantage would be, until later on.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

This isn't a hypothetical question about the Tour de France, this is about what actually happened yesterday. In your example yeah they're gaining an advantage.

In this case (which actually happened) pretty much every rider involved is on a club team who won't feature in any other stage at any point, and the energy needed to stay within the time limit is, tbh, not massive. They cheated as it's against the rules, but there's nothing to scandalise about as they're basically irrelevant to the race.

It's embarassing, sure, but in this *actual* scenario it's really not deep. 15% of them will make it onto a continental tour team, the rest will be Cat 1 riders.

Beside the stupid relevancy argument, among the disqualified was the Paris-Roubaix U23 winner, the Eschborn-Frankfurt U23 winner, one of last year‘s best juniors (Artem Shmidt) and other riders of significant development teams with good results. It‘s not like these are all Italian plumbers and janitors.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

It‘s not like these are all Italian plumbers and janitors.

It's a-not a-me?

 

[SafeBet]

Alessandro Romele wins stage 6.

 

[DNP-Old]

YES! This is the Jan we want to see. Despite crashing as well.

 

[DNP-Old]

King.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

That doesn't look like a 0 seconds gap, so i imagine PCS has to update the times still.

 

[DNP-Old]

That doesn't look like a 0 seconds gap, so i imagine PCS has to update the times still.

15 second gap to JSM, Gelders and Cretti I think. He was going up to virtually take pink at some point, but then crashed in a descent and Staune-Mittet had enough and went after him himself.

 

[Landeirovic]

15 second gap to JSM, Gelders and Cretti I think. He was going up to virtually take pink at some point, but then crashed in a descent and Staune-Mittet had enough and went after him himself.

I think Christen will make it to the top 8 in the standings. Knowing that he is 18 years old and the Norwegian is more than 2 years older

 

[Samamba]

Aha Christen finally showing his talent.

Also Segaert 8th is impressive once again.

 

[theyoungest]

I think Christen will make it to the top 8 in the standings. Knowing that he is 18 years old and the Norwegian is more than 2 years older

Their age difference is irrelevant in this. Christen won from the break so it's not like he's already better than Staune-Mittet, who closed about a 2 minute gap on him.

 

[Landeirovic]

Their age difference is irrelevant in this. Christen won from the break so it's not like he's already better than Staune-Mittet, who closed about a 2 minute gap on him.

he did not win from the break. there were 6 riders in front with just under 70km Christen and Bussato attacked in a peloton of 20 riders. with their 2 they drove a gap of 2 minutes uphill. then Gelders was solo and Cretti behind. then Bussato released and Christen joined Cretti and they made the connection with Gelders. then the peloton was at 2:50 with 8 riders. Christian fell in the descent but came back to make the decisive attack on the last climb. where in the peloton Gomez, Umba and Rafferty made several attacks. I think 18 years old is pretty important

 

[theyoungest]

he did not win from the break. there were 6 riders in front with just under 70km Christen and Bussato attacked in a peloton of 20 riders. with their 2 they drove a gap of 2 minutes uphill. then Gelders was solo and Cretti behind. then Bussato released and Christen joined Cretti and they made the connection with Gelders. then the peloton was at 2:50 with 8 riders. Christian fell in the descent but came back to make the decisive attack on the last climb. where in the peloton Gomez, Umba and Rafferty made several attacks. I think 18 years old is pretty important

If you want to mention the age difference, it's more relevant to compare him to the guys he actually battled for the stage win, right? Not to the guy who came from way behind and almost caught him, that's even a bit unfair to Christen.

 

[Landeirovic]

I don't just look at today, but at his entire round. he placed 12th on the Stelvio. knowing he was still Junior last year. and then a Staune Mittet last year and have already ridden x number of competitions with the professional team this year. then 6th in a final classification is very strong. because yes we can look at the age and that is always done. and then the rest is 1, 2 or almost 3 years older. I also thought that Christen would be a rider for classics like Flanders or Liège and with a strong sprint. but he seems to have much more to offer

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Rafferty, who looks likely to finish second, is another of the younger element at 19. Keeping the tradition alive of there always being exactly one Irish top level junior or espoir at any one time. Never two.