Men's U23 races and talents

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Samamba

Samamba

May 10, 2015
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ingsve said:
Are we seeing the same phenomenon as in Giro Next Gen that the teams are not able to control the race so big break aways go off and manages to stay away. In the Giro Next Gen it had direct impacts on the overall race since the top 4 all gained time by being in big break aways.

In todays stage it's Dalby and Turconi that seem to be the biggest threats to the overall out of the 20 riders, unless there is a good climber I didn't recognize.
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"not able"

Not sure about that. In the Giro for example Visma just didn't want to control. They completely threw away the GC for no reason, well for a 7th place for Rex apparently lmao.

And now, yeah it was kinda to be expected with so many flat stages that big dangerous groups were gonna go clear. The weird thing is that big teams like France, but especially Belgium and Norway just let this happen and wait ages to before working. To make it worse, Tim Rex, who has Widar as a leader, is just working in the front group. It's pretty insane. And then you have Italy, who actually have a good climber up front (Turconi) working in the peleton lmao.

So it's not just about no being able, but more about being tactically inept.
 
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ingsve

ingsve

Mar 12, 2009
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Samamba said:
"not able"

Not sure about that. In the Giro for example Visma just didn't want to control. They completely threw away the GC for no reason, well for a 7th place for Rex apparently lmao.

And now, yeah it was kinda to be expected with so many flat stages that big dangerous groups were gonna go clear. The weird thing is that big teams like France, but especially Belgium and Norway just let this happen and wait ages to before working. To make it worse, Tim Rex, who has Widar as a leader, is just working in the front group. It's pretty insane. And then you have Italy, who actually have a good climber up front (Turconi) working in the peleton lmao.

So it's not just about no being able, but more about being tactically inept.
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The teams only had 5 rider in the Giro so even if Visma put their 3 remaining workers to pull it's not likely they would have been able to do much.

The issue is also more in the formation of the breaks. Not sure if they have radios or not in l'Avenir but that was part of the problem in the Giro that they didn't know who were in the break before they had gotten a big lead.

At least the lead has started to come down pretty fast now so it seems the peloton is interested in controlling things a bit.
 
Samamba

Samamba

May 10, 2015
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ingsve said:
The teams only had 5 rider in the Giro so even if Visma put their 3 remaining workers to pull it's not likely they would have been able to do much.
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Oh come on. Of course they could've. They were looking at Widar and Pericas, 2 small guys trying to pull the peloton back on the flat. It was a pathetic tactical fail. Even Visma themselves agreed after the Giro.

And no, they do not have radio's. Hence why I do not criticize them for letting people go, but I can criticize when teams don't pull (before it's like 3'30) or when a rider with a leader is pulling in a front group (which Rex for some reason really likes to do, just like in the Giro).
 
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yaco

Jun 20, 2015
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ingsve said:
Are we seeing the same phenomenon as in Giro Next Gen that the teams are not able to control the race so big break aways go off and manages to stay away. In the Giro Next Gen it had direct impacts on the overall race since the top 4 all gained time by being in big break aways.

In todays stage it's Dalby and Turconi that seem to be the biggest threats to the overall out of the 20 riders, unless there is a good climber I didn't recognize.
Click to expand...

Difference was that the Giro only had five riders which makes it hard to control. Reckon the break will take this stage. Watch for Jack ward who has untapped talent.
 
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yaco

Jun 20, 2015
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Samamba said:
Oh come on. Of course they could've. They were looking at Widar and Pericas, 2 small guys trying to pull the peloton back on the flat. It was a pathetic tactical fail. Even Visma themselves agreed after the Giro.

And no, they do not have radio's. Hence why I do not criticize them for letting people go, but I can criticize when teams don't pull (before it's like 3'30) or when a rider with a leader is pulling in a front group (which Rex for some reason really likes to do, just like in the Giro).
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I posted during the Giro that it's hard to control a race with 5 riders. There is a reason why Noah Hobbs did not contest one sprint. In saying that, there is more chance to control a stage with 6 riders in L'Avenir.
 
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Samamba

Samamba

May 10, 2015
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yaco said:
I posted during the Giro that it's hard to control a race with 5 riders. There is a reason why Noah Hobbs did not contest one sprint. In saying that, there is more chance to control a stage with 6 riders in L'Avenir.
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You know when it's hard to control a race? When you don't try to, and have 3 strong domestiques in a peloton and don't use them, and have one in the front group but let him pull guys like Omrzel and Tuckwell further away from your leader.

No one is saying u23 racing is easy to control, but that doesn't take away from the fact that there was 0 excuse for what Visma decided to do in that stage, or what teams like Belgium, Norway, and some others are doing today. Parcours the last 2 days should be hard enough to not make this stage important, but it's a risk they shouldn't take.
 
Samamba

Samamba

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Berniece said:
The riders or the staff?
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Riders often just think about themselves, definitely in national teams. Who knows if Rex actually been said to ride like this. I mean he's definitely also tactically dumb cause why is he still being one of the main engines up front when he has absolutely 0 reason to if he wants to win the stage (at least he stopped now finally, he better get a good result now)?

And staff often wants to give chances to all riders, I understand that, it's u23 riders, they need to ride for their pro contract, but in a lot of teams that is a useless excuse as their riders all have that pro contract in the bag anyways (for example at Belgium now). But I have absolutely 0 faith in someone like Pauwels to be good tactically.

EDIT: not even a top 10 LOL, hey but at least his actual teammate won right?
 
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yaco

Jun 20, 2015
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Samamba said:
You know when it's hard to control a race? When you don't try to, and have 3 strong domestiques in a peloton and don't use them, and have one in the front group but let him pull guys like Omrzel and Tuckwell further away from your leader.

No one is saying u23 racing is easy to control, but that doesn't take away from the fact that there was 0 excuse for what Visma decided to do in that stage, or what teams like Belgium, Norway, and some others are doing today. Parcours the last 2 days should be hard enough to not make this stage important, but it's a risk they shouldn't take.
Click to expand...

Why could GB with a strong team not be able to control one stage for Noah Hobbs in the Giro Next Gen? And you saw today that with a break of 19 riders with half of them working hard how hard it is too bring back the break when you had a mixture of GC and sprint teams working in the peleton. These big under 23 stage races need 7 or 8 rider teams.
 
Samamba

Samamba

May 10, 2015
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yaco said:
Why could GB with a strong team not be able to control one stage for Noah Hobbs in the Giro Next Gen? And you saw today that with a break of 19 riders with half of them working hard how hard it is too bring back the break when you had a mixture of GC and sprint teams working in the peleton. These big under 23 stage races need 7 or 8 rider teams.
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What does Noah Hobbs have anything to do with Visma?

"No one is saying u23 racing is easy to control" you missed this part.

Also no one is saying they should bring these breaks back, what they should not do is just give them 4 minutes before starting to chase and actually limit the damage.
 
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yaco

Jun 20, 2015
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One of the few riders in the break who did no work wins the stage. How can you argue, I cant work when I have my sprinter in the peleton. This is not much excuse when the peleton is three minutes back, and, anyway all riders in the break could argue they have a sprinter in the peleton.
 
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