Merckx's view on Gilbert

[flatclimb]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/merckx-not-convinced-by-contadors-defence

...Meanwhile, Merckx cites Philippe Gilbert’s work ethic as the foundation of his splendid season.

“I know how he trains, it’s quite phenomenal. He thoroughly deserves what is coming to him and it’s not finished,” he said. “I hope that Philippe Gilbert wears the rainbow jersey someday, but above all I hope he wins other Classics, like the Tour of Flanders, which fits him like a glove.

Merckx also suggested that a change of team might ultimately help Gilbert realise his full potential. The Belgian has enjoyed huge success since he joined the Omega Pharma-Lotto set-up in 2009 but Merckx feels that there are too many chiefs in the team.

“With Gilbert, Greipel and Van den Broeck, Lotto has an explosive team,” he said. “Gilbert must go to the Tour de France and go to win one or two stages as he did in Spain [at the 2010 Vuelta a España].

“For the rest of his career, he will have to choose a team where he has the last word, which is not yet the case at Lotto. A team where he will have those means, like Astana, for instance, which I know is very interested. Vinokourov is the absolute patron of that team and he adores Gilbert.”

Gilbert's a great rider and I believe he's going to be one of the greatest of this generation.

Do you think one day a team would actually be built around him? He has amazing strength and can defend his breakaways, win classics, take tour stages, etc.

Where do you see Gilbert in 5 years time?

 

[luckyboy]

Ronde, Liege winner, some more smaller classics. Basically more of what he has now.

 

[The Hitch]

Where do you see Gilbert in 5 years time?

Behind Cancellara

He will win Liege no doubt. That one is in the bag. RVV i think he will win it but its by no means a certainty.

But no Paris Roubaix and no Milan Sanremo.

He might win the worlds in 2012 but my heart goes with Valverde for that one. No olympics either.

So in conclusion, regardless of how much David Harmon and El Pistolero hero worship him, he is not the best one day racer yet alone cyclist of his generation.

 

[El Pistolero]

Behind Cancellara

He will win Liege no doubt. That one is in the bag. RVV i think he will win it but its by no means a certainty.

But no Paris Roubaix and no Milan Sanremo.

He might win the worlds in 2012 but my heart goes with Valverde for that one. No olympics either.

So in conclusion, regardless of how much David Harmon and El Pistolero hero worship him, he is not the best one day racer yet alone cyclist of his generation.

You think Valverde at 34 year old can win the Worlds after being banned for 2 years?

Olympics are meaningless because of the fluke that is 2012. 2016 will be more interesting, but most guys will be past their prime already then.

 

[The Hitch]

Olympics are meaningless because of the fluke that is 2012. 2016 will be more interesting, but most guys will be past their prime already then.

Try telling Samuel Sanchez the olympics are meaningless

Last time round ALL the big names went for it. Cobbles guys ardennes guys and gt guys. That was the podium actually.

Gilbert was 26 at the 08 olympics and it was his type of course. Hell be 30 in London and 34 in Rio. Hes got a chance.

You think Valverde at 34 year old can win the Worlds after being banned for 2 years?

Valverde will be 32. And 2012 is an ardennes world championships. As i recall Liege bastogne Liege was just won by a 36 year old. In 09 Fleche was won by a 37 year old. Hes hardly too old at 32.

 

[ultimobici]

Behind Cancellara

He will win Liege no doubt. That one is in the bag. RVV i think he will win it but its by no means a certainty.

But no Paris Roubaix and no Milan Sanremo.

Roubaix I can understand but why do you think he won't win MSR?

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

One thing in sport, never underestimate the heart of a man who has the dedication and work ethic to reach the top or achieve goals no one else thinks they can reach. IF what Eddy Merckx says about Gilbert's work ethic is spot on then I won't be too surprised if Gilbert wins whatever he sets his mind out to win. Maybe not right away, but eventually. Not saying he will win, just won't be surprised.

 

[El Pistolero]

Try telling Samuel Sanchez the olympics are meaningless

Last time round ALL the big names went for it. Cobbles guys ardennes guys and gt guys. That was the podium actually.

Gilbert was 26 at the 08 olympics and it was his type of course. Hell be 30 in London and 34 in Rio. Hes got a chance.



Valverde will be 32. And 2012 is an ardennes world championships. As i recall Liege bastogne Liege was just won by a 36 year old. In 09 Fleche was won by a 37 year old. Hes hardly too old at 32.

Not too old, but combined with the fact that he had a 2 year ban I doubt he'll win anything big in his first season. Not everyone is like Vinokourov(and he returned in 2009 already anyway).

And 2008 Olympics are done. All that matters is 2012 now which is a boring flat stage. I doubt many GT contenders, or classics specialists will care for the olympics when the world suits them like a glove.

For me 09 Fleche is won by Andy.Tintin tested positive on the Olympics, so all his results should have been scrapped from then onwards.

 

[ultimobici]

All that matters is 2012 now which is a boring flat stage.

How so? I realise that Surrey isn't the Alps but it's hardly pan flat is it?

 

[The Hitch]

Roubaix I can understand but why do you think he won't win MSR?

Well hes not going to win in a sprint and i cant see him tting away from everyone on his own like Cancellara. So that leaves a break and whether or not others join him in breaking away on the Cipressa isnt up to him, and if they do he still has to beat them in a sprint.

Not too old, but combined with the fact that he had a 2 year ban I doubt he'll win anything big in his first season. Not everyone is like Vinokourov.

But hes younger than Vino. And like Vino he has 2 Lbls and a Vuelta. But unlike Vino he already has numerous worlds podiums.

For Valverde its less than 2 years because he raced half of 2010. And Valverde is special

And 2008 Olympics are done. All that matters is 2012 now which is a boring flat stage.

Thats right. Gilbert had his chance and didnt win. Dont worry he still has RIo 2016.

 

[El Pistolero]

Well hes not going to win in a sprint and i cant see him tting away from everyone on his own like Cancellara. So that leaves a break and whether or not others join him in breaking away on the Cipressa isnt up to him, and if they do he still has to beat them in a sprint.



But hes younger than Vino. And like Vino he has 2 Lbls and a Vuelta. But unlike Vino he already has numerous worlds podiums.

For Valverde its less than 2 years because he raced half of 2010. And Valverde is special



Thats right. Gilbert had his chance and didnt win. Dont worry he still has RIo 2016.

I don't think Gilbert entered the Olympics. Probably was not even picked to join the national team as the rules here are strict.

And Gilbert stayed ahead of the sprinters in '08 at MSR.

 

[The Hitch]

I don't think Gilbert entered the Olympics.

Fabian Cancellara, Carlos Sastre, Alejandro Valverde, Alberto Contador, Samuel Sanchez, ANdy Schleck, Frank Schleck, Paolo Bettini, Robert Gesink, Cadel Evans, Edvald Boasson Hagen, Vincenzo Nibali, David Rebbelin, Denis Menchov, Kim Kirchen, Alexander Kolobnev, Jens VOigt, Oscar Freire and pretty much every other big name in cycling, DID and ALL of them went for it

Those are (barring Di Luca and Boonen) the biggest names in cycling. And they all went half way round the world to polluted Beijing halfway through the season to have a go.

Maybe Gilbert wasnt good enough

So it can hardly be called meaningless if all those guys went for it.

Its a very important race. Dont call it meaningless. We know you wont be calling it meaningless when Phillipe wins in Flamengo Park or if Tom Boonen robs Cav in Regents Park.

 

[El Pistolero]

Fabian Cancellara, Carlos Sastre, Alejandro Valverde, Alberto Contador, Samuel Sanchez, ANdy Schleck, Frank Schleck, Paolo Bettini, Robert Gesink, Cadel Evans, Edvald Boasson Hagen, Vincenzo Nibali, David Rebbelin, Denis Menchov, Kim Kirchen, Alexander Kolobnev, Jens VOigt, Oscar Freire and pretty much every other big name in cycling, DID and ALL of them went for it

Those are (barring Di Luca and Boonen) the biggest names in cycling. And they all went half way round the world to polluted Beijing halfway through the season to have a go.

Maybe Gilbert wasnt good enough

So it can hardly be called meaningless if all those guys went for it.

Its a very important race. Dont call it meaningless. We know you wont be calling it meaningless when Phillipe wins in Flamengo Park or if Tom Boonen robs Cav in Regents Park.

You said Gilbert had his change, but he didn't as he didn't enter the Olympics for whatever reason. I'm not calling 2008 meaningless, but 2012 is meaningless just as the 2011 Worlds will be meaningless unless someone would be able to power away in the final km out of the peloton. That would be impressive, but chances are even lower for something like that to happen than at MSR.

And that's neglecting the fact that Gilbert has improved a lot last 2 seasons.

If Boonen wins in Londen it won't be the same as Bettini in Athens or Samu Sanchez in Beijing.

 

[ultimobici]

Can someone explain why the 2012 Olympic Road Race will be meaningless?

Is it the course? If so how can you make a judgement as they haven't announced it yet. All we do know is that the Hampstead/Regents Park one was not up to snuff.

 

[The Hitch]

Can someone explain why the 2012 Olympic Road Race will be meaningless?

Is it the course? If so how can you make a judgement as they haven't announced it yet. All we do know is that the Hampstead/Regents Park one was not up to snuff.

Its not meaningless. Ignore El Pis troll ero. The course will of course be flat but that doesnt make it meaningless.

Cav will hopefully be in rainbow making him potentially Britains sports personality thing in 2011 (if British sport continues the way it has been) and go into the olympics as one of the stars.

Maybe some people in Britain will (like every other nation) understand that as far as cycling at the olympics goes the road race is the blue ribbon.

The olympic road race, arguably one of the most prestigious golds at the entire thing, will be on the first day. It will be Britains first gold medal if Cav can win it.

That means at every single "Olympics so far" video the first athlete everyone will see after steve redgrave rowing the flame to the torch to ignite it, will be Mark Cavendish, the Liu Xiang of London (only with success) celebrating Britains first gold medal at its olympics.

In conclusion, its not meaningless.

 

[El Pistolero]

It has the same meaning on a sport level as a flat Tour stage. Of course it's more prestigious, but really, Cav is one of the worst one day cyclists in the world. Him winning the Worlds and Olympics would be insulting to the sport. It would be one big joke. And if he fails to win one of these events-without a good excuse- he'll be a joke instead of the sport.

It has nothing to do with being a troll, but that it's pathetic that there can be a totally flat Worlds and Olympic road race. It's boring and disgusting. Let them ride 5km instead of 300km then.

I fail to see how winning a flat Tour stage is any different than winning a flat Worlds road race. So, that's how I will treat the Olympics in London and the worlds next year. If a non-sprinter can win than he'll get a lot of respect of me, if a sprinter will win than I won't respect it at all.

I don't care about sprinters and never will.

 

[simo1733]

Not too old, but combined with the fact that he had a 2 year ban I doubt he'll win anything big in his first season. Not everyone is like Vinokourov(and he returned in 2009 already anyway).

And 2008 Olympics are done. All that matters is 2012 now which is a boring flat stage. I doubt many GT contenders, or classics specialists will care for the olympics when the world suits them like a glove.

For me 09 Fleche is won by Andy.Tintin tested positive on the Olympics, so all his results should have been scrapped from then onwards.

Flat doesn't have to mean boring just look at the commmwealth games.And its not a stage it's just a one day race.but you know that right?

 

[For The World]

It has nothing to do with being a troll, but that it's pathetic that there can be a totally flat Worlds and Olympic road race. It's boring and disgusting. Let them ride 5km instead of 300km then.

I fail to see how winning a flat Tour stage is any different than winning a flat Worlds road race. So, that's how I will treat the Olympics in London and the worlds next year. If a non-sprinter can win than he'll get a lot of respect of me, if a sprinter will win than I won't respect it at all.

I don't care about sprinters and never will.

When you say the race is boring and disgusting, are you referring to what the riders will think, or how you think the viewing of the race will be for you? You must remember that the race is for the riders first, and then the viewing public second. You seem to have some sort of sense of entitlement, as if you should always see the race you want to see. That's the impression I get from your posts.

Having said that, a flat race on an easily accessible course for the public and TV/radio crews is far better than some mountainous affair that the public won't be able to get to, and will cause higher costs for companies trying to film the race. Do you want people to be able to see the sport? It's not supposed to be some sort of secret club.

There's a difference between winning a flat Tour stage and winning a flat World Championships. One can be won by perhaps 15 people each year, and they'll be forgotten, yet if you win a flat World Championships, you'll be recognised in the peloton for the whole year, and for years afterward.

Your comment about a sprinter vs. a non-sprinter makes little sense. There won't be lead out trains like any sort of Tour stage, thus evening the playing field in favour of the non sprinters. You'll have the national teams working for particular riders, yet each man really will be out for his own. You could have a sprinter make a break off the front with 1km to go and win it. Will that get your respect? Or if a non-sprinter gets a lead out and takes it in a bunch sprint - will he be cast aside in your mind?

 

[The Hitch]

It has the same meaning on a sport level as a flat Tour stage. Of course it's more prestigious, but really, Cav is one of the worst one day cyclists in the world. Him winning the Worlds and Olympics would be insulting to the sport. It would be one big joke. And if he fails to win one of these events-without a good excuse- he'll be a joke instead of the sport.

It has nothing to do with being a troll, but that it's pathetic that there can be a totally flat Worlds and Olympic road race. It's boring and disgusting. Let them ride 5km instead of 300km then.

I fail to see how winning a flat Tour stage is any different than winning a flat Worlds road race. So, that's how I will treat the Olympics in London and the worlds next year. If a non-sprinter can win than he'll get a lot of respect of me, if a sprinter will win than I won't respect it at all.

I don't care about sprinters and never will.

You should bare in mind that Cav wont have much of a team.

At the olympics Wiggins, Thomas and a few others will be focusing on the track. David Millar is banned. Thats his 3 best domestiques gone.

Then he has to contend with both his great leadout men - Goss and Renshaw, working for one of his rivals - Barbie, and 2 of his great domestiques - Tony Martin and Bert Grabsch, working for his great nemesis, Greipel.

You will also have a much more mature EBH, with Thor Hushovd combination, a Super Spain team potentialy working for Valverde (if he can ride) , a super Italy team for Pozzato and a very good US team working for Farrar.

All Cav has is his speed, but there is much more to a olympic flat race than being the fastest man out there, and in all those other variables, Cav is down.

If he wins it he will deserve it.

 

[Arnout]

Behind Cancellara

He will win Liege no doubt. That one is in the bag. RVV i think he will win it but its by no means a certainty.

But no Paris Roubaix and no Milan Sanremo.

He might win the worlds in 2012 but my heart goes with Valverde for that one. No olympics either.

So in conclusion, regardless of how much David Harmon and El Pistolero hero worship him, he is not the best one day racer yet alone cyclist of his generation.

Gilbert is a way better and more complete cyclist than Cancellara. His record is already much more impressive and it will continue to be so in future. And don't forget that Gilbert is only top level for the last 2 years. He has many years to pursue other goals.

Cancellara only dominated Roubaix in '06 and '10 and RvV in '10 against non-existent competition other than Boonen. Cobbled classics are nice but most top guns don't focus on them.

 

[Michielveedeebee]

Gilbert is a way better and more complete cyclist than Cancellara. His record is already much more impressive and it will continue to be so in future. And don't forget that Gilbert is only top level for the last 2 years. He has many years to pursue other goals.

Cancellara only dominated Roubaix in '06 and '10 and RvV in '10 against non-existent competition other than Boonen. Cobbled classics are nice but most top guns don't focus on them.

dude, say what?

 

[For The World]

dude, say what?

To be fair, Gilbert has won more one day races than Cancellara:

Gilbert: Giro di Lombardia (2009, 2010), Amstel Gold Race (2010), Omloop Het Nieuwsblad (2006, 2008), Paris-Tours (2008, 2009), Giro del Piemonte (2009, 2010)

Cancellara: Paris–Roubaix (2006, 2010), Milan – San Remo (2008), E3 Prijs Vlaanderen (2010), Ronde van Vlaanderen (2010)

Cancellara certainly has more stage race and time trial wins however.

If Gilbert gets either Ronde Van Vlaanderen or Liege-Bastogne-Liege, and continues his trend of being dominant in the autumn classics this year, then he'll surely have at least an equal, if not slightly more impressive list of race wins. Currently it's 3 to 1 in terms of the monumental classics though.

 

[Arnout]

To be fair, Gilbert has won more one day races than Cancellara:

Gilbert: Giro di Lombardia (2009, 2010), Amstel Gold Race (2010), Omloop Het Nieuwsblad (2006, 2008), Paris-Tours (2008, 2009), Giro del Piemonte (2009, 2010)

Cancellara: Paris–Roubaix (2006, 2010), Milan – San Remo (2008), E3 Prijs Vlaanderen (2010), Ronde van Vlaanderen (2010)

Cancellara certainly has more stage race and time trial wins however.

If Gilbert gets either Ronde Van Vlaanderen or Liege-Bastogne-Liege, and continues his trend of being dominant in the autumn classics this year, then he'll surely have at least an equal, if not slightly more impressive list of race wins. Currently it's 3 to 1 in terms of the monumental classics though.

Exactly, and I personally rate wins in hilly classics much higher than cobbled classics as the field tends to be much more competitive. Oh, and that Tour of Suisse Cancellara won, I don't take that one that seriously, it was tailor made for him. We all know he's the best TTer in the world.

 

[ingsve]

You will also have a much more mature EBH, with Thor Hushovd combination, a Super Spain team potentialy working for Valverde (if he can ride) , a super Italy team for Pozzato and a very good US team working for Farrar.

Don't forget TGAK.

And do you really think Spain would work for Valvpiti? I would think they would go for either Freire or Rojas or someone else that's more of a real sprinter. Same with Italy, I would think that after this years Worlds with the criticism they got for not having a real sprinter but having Pippo instead that they would go for someone faster in London. Chicchi, Bennati, Modolo or Viviani would probably be a better choice dependong on how some of them develop before then or why not a 38 year old Petacchi.

 

[The Hitch]

Exactly, and I personally rate wins in hilly classics much higher than cobbled classics as the field tends to be much more competitive. Oh, and that Tour of Suisse Cancellara won, I don't take that one that seriously, it was tailor made for him. We all know he's the best TTer in the world.

How to turn a rider with a worse palmares into a rider with a better palmares.

Simple.

Say you dont rate any of the races the guy with the way better palmares won.

Contador better than Devolder?

Well i dont rate the grand tours because there are no cobbled climbs and those Paris Nice races his won, I dont take them seriously. So devolder is WAY better

And do you really think Spain would work for Valvpiti?

Freire is retiring end of season. He might extend another year, but atm his status is that hes retiring.

And Valverde didnt do too bad in the 05 Madrid sprint.