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Volderke said:yeah, common, if you can't say anything better than:
[keyboard hero detects a mistake in poster comment]"Sagan his 3rd participation"[/keyboard hero happy with rectifying other keyboard hero without adding anything constructive]
It is his first real participation, and he got 6th and he is 23. And still all you can say is: he will never win... Luckily the internet has a good memory, and Sagan has like 10 more chances to prove you wrong
By the way, I only see Sagan participated in 2011 and 2014. Did he participated before 2011? At pro level?
You'll have to explain how his third attempt is really is his first. I was discounting his u23 rides. 2010 was a DNF, and 2011 as I'm sure you've found he finished in the grupetto, adding to the impression for those following him at the time that he was crazy talented, but had a problem with endurance. An impression which still persists, to some degree, as he makes the final bunch sprint of MSR and "only" finishes 10th, and despite the work done couldn't win the bunch sprint for second in roubaix. This is something that comes with age, so in the future who knows.
Second as you've noted all I said was it was his 3rd, I said nothing about him not being able to win. If he rode a little smarter he could have won this one, so i think it would be stupid to suggest he could never win one. So please don't put words in my mouth.
You should really contrast with Boonen and Cancellara. Cancellara actual 1st attempt 4th at 23. Boonen actual first attempt 3rd at age 21. Those guys were always when not if.
Sagan thus far seems more suited to La Ronde and MSR those two seem like a when not if to me, Roubaix at this stage seems to look like a ride where circumstances need to fall his way, a headwind, other teams to ride a controlled race etc, unlike Vanmarcke, who like Boonen and Cancellara will ride away from everyone before long.
As this is about Kwiatkowski and winning a GT, if Nibali can, Kwiatkowski can, but then again we have guys like Kreuziger so can is not will.
[keyboard hero detects a mistake in poster comment]Sagan was 6th in 2014[/keyboard hero happy with rectifying other keyboard hero]karlboss said:
apologies, that part was more meant for Netserk but I admit I was a little lazy to quote the bothe of you. Agree with everything you said further...karlboss said:
Volderke said:
Can you quote me where I say that Sagan won't win Roubaix?
Remember what I wrote earlier:
Netserk said:
Volderke said:[keyboard hero detects a mistake in poster comment]Sagan was 6th in 2014[/keyboard hero happy with rectifying other keyboard hero]
Which mistake? 10th in MSR, 6th in PR which is losing the sprint for 2nd.
ILovecycling said:its not possible to know it 100%,but imo (agree with netserk) its HIGHLY unlikely
Now that's lot better and not arrogant to say compared to what Netserk said.
Things running out of control quite easily here!
@ Netserk:
@ Karlboss:
My sincere apologies again, because I misread and thought you said Sagan was 10th in Roubaix. But in any way, he was still 6th which was within reach of the win. Cancellara was so waisted in his first year, that he couldn't win the sprint from Magnus Backstedt, Hoffman and Hammond (speaking about top sprinters). Obviously, Cancellara did great but was waisted in the end on the velodrome. Same as Sagan this year. So to speak, Sagan did as good as Cancellara at 23 and there is really nothing more or less than that, and for me enough of an argument that Sagan can win it, even without luck/tactics (just imagine it rains and Sagan his riding skills can be used to the full).
@ Netserk:
Do I have to because you didn't? I just commented on what you said about Sagan's 3rd participation ("not giving any arguments except just correcting a not-relevant fact"). The rest of my comment was addressed to Bigmac. But I guess you knew it wasn't directed to you, as you are a 'knowing guy':Netserk said:
Netserk said:
@ Karlboss:
My sincere apologies again, because I misread and thought you said Sagan was 10th in Roubaix. But in any way, he was still 6th which was within reach of the win. Cancellara was so waisted in his first year, that he couldn't win the sprint from Magnus Backstedt, Hoffman and Hammond (speaking about top sprinters). Obviously, Cancellara did great but was waisted in the end on the velodrome. Same as Sagan this year. So to speak, Sagan did as good as Cancellara at 23 and there is really nothing more or less than that, and for me enough of an argument that Sagan can win it, even without luck/tactics (just imagine it rains and Sagan his riding skills can be used to the full).
So has anybody heard much about what's going on with Kwiatkowski? He climbed better than some of the pre-race favorites today in the Dauphine's first mountain stage (well, if Tejay was ever really a pre-race favorite) and sits 20th on GC, 2:37 back.
I know a lot of folks, me included, were disappointed that he didn't go better in the opening time trial, but he seems to be have had a reasonably good first two days, if nothing to light the world on fire.
I know a lot of folks, me included, were disappointed that he didn't go better in the opening time trial, but he seems to be have had a reasonably good first two days, if nothing to light the world on fire.
I fear his rest period was too short. I wouldn't be surprised if he never gets to top form in this Tour because he is too tired.
I do think he was over raced/in too good form for too long in this spring, but let's remember how well he did here last year before we all go doom-shroom.
One interesting fact is that Kwiatkowski doesnt do altitude training. Myabe that negatively affects his climbing? He said in an interview that he doesnt want to risk and try new thing in such a crucial time and he would try it out for example in august (not 100% sure that he was talking about this year or just in general during the part of calendar that he is not targeting) to see how it affects him.
Cant wait to see how he looks in 2-3 seasons.
Cant wait to see how he looks in 2-3 seasons.
I never really thought he was a great climber. So not sure what everybody was thinking about or were expecting from him. He was in great form at the beginning of the year, but never in stages or races with big climbs. So everytime bigger climbs were raced he did not respond (as expected).
Escarabajo said:
In a tt heavy tour I could easily see him getting a 10th place on gc. Agree that his climbing skills are a bit hyped though.
Don't lose hope guys our polish hero still have the time and the talent to become top GT material.
He did get 11th in an extremely mountainous Tour, so obviously he could get a top-10 on a route better suited to him (like '12).Vino attacks everyone said:
Yesterday he said he is on perfect track for the Tour. He said it would be foolish to assume that he would be in his best shape in the mid of June. So I wouldn't read too much into his 23rd place yesterday.
But I agree that he probably will never finish the Tour on the podium. 8-10th at his best. He has so many other skills: time trialing, short hills, sprints out of selected groups, riding on cobbles. So he will win a lot of races, but presumably never "le Tour".
But I agree that he probably will never finish the Tour on the podium. 8-10th at his best. He has so many other skills: time trialing, short hills, sprints out of selected groups, riding on cobbles. So he will win a lot of races, but presumably never "le Tour".
I dont know if I would say that he is never going to win it.
Of course right now his climbing skills are severely lacking but I think after he wins 2-3 monuments (or 'if', whatever you like) he is going to concentrate on his climbing skills. And 3-4 years of trianing in the mountains might just get him there (again, so far he hasnt trained in high altitudes and is still doing fine for his build type and considering his sprinting/time trialing/cobbles abilities)
Of course right now his climbing skills are severely lacking but I think after he wins 2-3 monuments (or 'if', whatever you like) he is going to concentrate on his climbing skills. And 3-4 years of trianing in the mountains might just get him there (again, so far he hasnt trained in high altitudes and is still doing fine for his build type and considering his sprinting/time trialing/cobbles abilities)
Sounds interesting, because it doesn't look like "perfect track". He's kept most of his promises this season. So, who knows...
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