Miguel Ángel Lopez Discussion Thread

[Escarabajo]

They need to quit blaming Movistar, and blame the real culprit behind MAL’s exit... Pereiro lol

How Óscar Pereiro set the trap that caught out Miguel Ángel López and changed the Vuelta a España

2006 Tour de France winner designed the climb-riddled finale that shook up the GC and provoked an angry López to quit the Vuelta.

www.velonews.com

Lets blame Oscar! LOL.
Maybe it wasn't a trap, because everyone knew this stage was very hard. Lopez was just not focused or didn't have the legs to respond at that moment, but everyone was warned about this stage. Just about every expert had warned us about this. Unfortunately for Lopez!

 

[Rackham]

One of the ironies of this story is the fact it's not even unusual to have a rage quit in cycling, i.e. the key difference being in 99% of cases the riders give a B.S. excuse (injury, illness etc.) & the teams mostly cover for them. Someone mentioned Tom Dumoulin as an "example" last Saturday compared to Lopez (I can't remember which post), but this is the same Dumoulin who quit last year's Vuelta after 1 week because he couldn't be bothered to ride domestique for Roglic anymore.

So all Lopez had to do was pull over to the side of the road & feign stomach cramps or whatnot. But it's the manner in which he quit which makes his case different (& the fact his spouse + Columbian media immediately went to war with Movistar online).

 

[Sciatic]

One of the ironies of this story is the fact it's not even unusual to have a rage quit in cycling, i.e. the key difference being in 99% of cases the riders give a B.S. excuse (injury, illness etc.) & the teams mostly cover for them. Someone mentioned Tom Dumoulin as an "example" last Saturday compared to Lopez (I can't remember which post), but this is the same Dumoulin who quit last year's Vuelta after 1 week because he couldn't be bothered to ride domestique for Roglic anymore.

So all Lopez had to do was pull over to the side of the road & feign stomach cramps or whatnot. But it's the manner in which he quit which makes his case different (& the fact his spouse + Columbian media immediately went to war with Movistar online).

I see what you mean about other circumstances, but this was someone who could still have finished top 5-6 in a GT, quitting in the middle of the dramatic penultimate stage. Regardless of what you think of his decision, there’s no way to put this in some “happens all the time” category.

 

[Escarabajo]

One of the ironies of this story is the fact it's not even unusual to have a rage quit in cycling, i.e. the key difference being in 99% of cases the riders give a B.S. excuse (injury, illness etc.) & the teams mostly cover for them. Someone mentioned Tom Dumoulin as an "example" last Saturday compared to Lopez (I can't remember which post), but this is the same Dumoulin who quit last year's Vuelta after 1 week because he couldn't be bothered to ride domestique for Roglic anymore.

So all Lopez had to do was pull over to the side of the road & feign stomach cramps or whatnot. But it's the manner in which he quit which makes his case different (& the fact his spouse + Columbian media immediately went to war with Movistar online).

Good point. Rohan Dennis is another example.
One big difference that would have still put Lopez on the spot was that it was stage 20 with him being third overall. You can't hide that, no matter if you try to pull an injury. There would have been still questions.

 

[Rackham]

I see what you mean about other circumstances, but this was someone who could still have finished top 5-6 in a GT, quitting in the middle of the dramatic penultimate stage. Regardless of what you think of his decision, there’s no way to put this in some “happens all the time” category.

I'd think the circumstance in this instance had the following main elements:

• MAL is a bad time trialist & was going to lose big time the following day, so that was game over for his GC aspirations from his point of view (i.e. this "bad stuff" happened right at the end when there was no way to fix anything later).
• MAL had already blown up on the infamous Planche des Belles Filles TT in the Tour last year (which is often lost in the bigger drama of Pog versus Rog that day, but his personal disaster was huge).
• MAL had just won the "queen stage" for Movistar in the Vuelta, so that was a huge high followed by a sudden unexpected massive low.

No excuse (& even less so considering the behavior of his camp afterwards hasn't been correct), but I can see the how why & where of the whole mess to a certain extent.

I honestly think he should just man up & own his mistake. Do a real mea-culpa in an interview, praise his teammates & move on. Even if Movistar then fire the guy, he at least needs to show the rest of the cycling world he's not totally disconnected.

 

[bill1109]

I'd think the circumstance in this instance had the following main elements:

• MAL is a bad time trialist & was going to lose big time the following day, so that was game over for his GC aspirations from his point of view (i.e. this "bad stuff" happened right at the end when there was no way to fix anything later).
• MAL had already blown up on the infamous Planche des Belles Filles TT in the Tour last year (which is often lost in the bigger drama of Pog versus Rog that day, but his personal disaster was huge).
• MAL had just won the "queen stage" for Movistar in the Vuelta, so that was a huge high followed by a sudden unexpected massive low.

No excuse (& even less so considering the behavior of his camp afterwards hasn't been correct), but I can see the how why & where of the whole mess to a certain extent.

I honestly think he should just man up & own his mistake. Do a real mea-culpa in an interview, praise his teammates & move on. Even if Movistar then fire the guy, he at least needs to show the rest of the cycling world he's not totally disconnected.

i think a bullet needs to be added before the others you have:
Lopez failed to follow Haig wheel...either didn't have legs or thought he had tactil sense to get others (bernal etc) to work for him....both wrong and his fault. Both happen often in cycling.

 

[Sciatic]

I'd think the circumstance in this instance had the following main elements:

• MAL is a bad time trialist & was going to lose big time the following day, so that was game over for his GC aspirations from his point of view (i.e. this "bad stuff" happened right at the end when there was no way to fix anything later).
• MAL had already blown up on the infamous Planche des Belles Filles TT in the Tour last year (which is often lost in the bigger drama of Pog versus Rog that day, but his personal disaster was huge).
• MAL had just won the "queen stage" for Movistar in the Vuelta, so that was a huge high followed by a sudden unexpected massive low.

No excuse (& even less so considering the behavior of his camp afterwards hasn't been correct), but I can see the how why & where of the whole mess to a certain extent.

I honestly think he should just man up & own his mistake. Do a real mea-culpa in an interview, praise his teammates & move on. Even if Movistar then fire the guy, he at least needs to show the rest of the cycling world he's not totally disconnected.

Well put, and totally agree about owning up, at least just to put it behind him for now. But easier for me to say that than for him to do it obviously.

 

[Sciatic]

i think a bullet needs to be added before the others you have:
Lopez failed to follow Haig wheel...either didn't have legs or thought he had tactil sense to get others (bernal etc) to work for him....both wrong and his fault. Both happen often in cycling.

Yup. And rewatching it, he was on Mas’s wheel at that point. But Mas wasn’t attacking, he was accelerating, along with the 2-3 other riders around them, to close the small gap to the front. Unlike if Mas had initiated the attack, wherein he would let his teammate get a gap,, in this situation I can’t imagine any tactical reason to let Mas’s wheel go. So pretty sure it was either no legs or a fatigue-induced moment of inattention.

 

[Red Rick]

Dumoulin who quit last year's Vuelta after 1 week because he couldn't be bothered to ride domestique for Roglic anymore.

Are we talking the same Dumoulin was going absolutely backwards and who was very likely overtrained?

 

[Rackham]

Are we talking the same Dumoulin was going absolutely backwards and who was very likely overtrained?

Dumoulin lost most of his time in Formigal (rain jacket incident etc.). But in terms of form, he really didn't look worse than he had been in Liège a couple of week earlier (where he did good work). In the first stage which was a mountain summit finish, he lost 50 seconds against Roglic & finished with Valverde.

He simply bailed. I totally get he had that leeway to do so (Giro winner etc.), but when you look at the guys on the Jumbo team who did the work later on the climbs & flat... Dumoulin had his place & could have been one of the better riders in that team in the Vuelta.

 

[Red Rick]

Dumoulin lost most of his time in Formigal (rain jacket incident etc.). But in terms of form, he really didn't look worse than he had been in Liège a couple of week earlier (where he did good work). In the first stage which was a mountain summit finish, he lost 50 seconds against Roglic & finished with Valverde.

He simply bailed. I totally get he had that leeway to do so (Giro winner etc.), but when you look at the guys on the Jumbo team who did the work later on the climbs & flat... Dumoulin had his place & could have been one of the better riders in that team in the Vuelta.

Dumoulin dropped 10 minutes on day 2.

 

[Rackham]

Dumoulin dropped 10 minutes on day 2.

We could argue this one all day, i.e. not to derail the thread entirely but Dumoulin went into that Vuelta as joint leader with his team saying whichever one between Roglic or Dumoulin who did best would be team leader (& the other would work for him). After that first day when Roglic won, Dumoulin zoned out mentally (& I say his subsequent behavior in January when he suddenly quit the JV training camp on unpaid leave supports my belief he also quit the Vuelta for mental reasons).

And to bring this back to Lopez, he himself actually said back in March he'd had the same thoughts as Dumoulin about taking a break from cycling: López: I've had the same thoughts as Tom Dumoulin | Cyclingnews

I think in both cases the foundations of quitting were place. It's just Lopez did it in a more stereotypically "Latin" fiery way.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

How Óscar Pereiro set the trap that caught out Miguel Ángel López and changed the Vuelta a España

2006 Tour de France winner designed the climb-riddled finale that shook up the GC and provoked an angry López to quit the Vuelta.

www.velonews.com

Pereiro should hire a team of bodyguards. Superman will have no mercy...

 

[Rackham]

How Óscar Pereiro set the trap that caught out Miguel Ángel López and changed the Vuelta a España

2006 Tour de France winner designed the climb-riddled finale that shook up the GC and provoked an angry López to quit the Vuelta.

www.velonews.com

Pereiro should hire a team of bodyguards. Superman will have no mercy...

I could see the disaster scenario unfolding (even for Roglic because he only had Kruijswijk left, so he had to make that move). It's Bernal who caused the confusion IMO, because of his positioning during the tempo imposed by Ineos made it look like he was the one who was about to attack.

I think Lopez just forgot about Yates & didn't realize Bernal didn't care.

 

[perico]

Just remembered Van Garderen’s collapse after the last rest day in 2015, when he abandoned while a podium looked like a real posssibility as he was in 2nd place ahead of Nairo, Nibali, and Contador.

 

[Koronin]

Well it's a nice premise for a murder mistery dinner party.

That actually would be great for a murder mystery dinner. Where can I sign up for it? Also would it be better at a mansion in NE or a castle in Europe?

 

[Escarabajo]

So the rumor is that he is going back to Astana or to work for Pogacar at UAE.
If he goes to UAE, it will be official that UAE is the new death star, or the new empire, whatever you want to call it. LOL.
Same as New England picking great talent for low price because other teams cannot manage them. We'll see.

 

[hfer07]

So the rumor is that he is going back to Astana or to work for Pogacar at UAE.
If he goes to UAE, it will be official that UAE is the new death star, or the new empire, whatever you want to call it. LOL.
Same as New England picking great talent for low price because other teams cannot manage them. We'll see.

UAE will take him as domestique and nothing else. Will MAL abandon his personal ambitions for the greater good of the team?

To me is more likely Astana with a considerable salary reduction and no warranties of full leadership designation for GT until results appear....

 

[Oldermanish]

UAE will take him as domestique and nothing else. Will MAL abandon his personal ambitions for the greater good of the team?

To me is more likely Astana with a considerable salary reduction and no warranties of full leadership designation for GT until results appear....

Actually at this Vuelta he and Mas seemed to work exceedingly well as a team duo. He had a tantrum and he should get over it quickly before he screws up what Movistar progress had been made. This was his best shot and the spectre of Roglic putting 4 minutes into him on Stage 21 couldn't have been encouraging.

 

[Ripper]

I'd think the circumstance in this instance had the following main elements:

• MAL is a bad time trialist & was going to lose big time the following day, so that was game over for his GC aspirations from his point of view (i.e. this "bad stuff" happened right at the end when there was no way to fix anything later).
• MAL had already blown up on the infamous Planche des Belles Filles TT in the Tour last year (which is often lost in the bigger drama of Pog versus Rog that day, but his personal disaster was huge).
• MAL had just won the "queen stage" for Movistar in the Vuelta, so that was a huge high followed by a sudden unexpected massive low.

No excuse (& even less so considering the behavior of his camp afterwards hasn't been correct), but I can see the how why & where of the whole mess to a certain extent.

I honestly think he should just man up & own his mistake. Do a real mea-culpa in an interview, praise his teammates & move on. Even if Movistar then fire the guy, he at least needs to show the rest of the cycling world he's not totally disconnected.

I absolutely agree with your final point there. He truly needs to admit his own mistakes and speak praise regarding what his team mates have done. If for no other reason, as cynical as it is, than protect his own career. Any other narrative about it being Movistar's fault is just going to damage his own marketability.

 

[Ripper]

Better than averarage. You don't need to be Stephen Hawking to see how Movi management handles these year after year after year. And it's so transparent in the case of these two as they are so level as an athletes.

I don't know what you're smoking

As has been pointed out by numerous posters on this thread, Mas and MAL are really in no way alike, not in personality, and not in the races in which they excel. MAL is an extremely talented and mercurial, climber, capable of sublime performances on the given day, but he invariably has some pretty bad days. Mas is consistent and strong, day in and day out, with fewer peaks but also fewer terrible days, and is a better time trialist.

 

[SHAD0W93]

No one would have issues with him if he still finished the race. Blow ups or losing time happens and his scenario is far different than TVG whatever year that was. He lost time from a tactical mistake. It happens. Even if he stopped on the road and then finished the race there would still be no issue.

He can still lead, it isn’t like he is Majka. He brings wins and placements with a blow up at some point. Maybe 2018 was his Chaves year and once in a lifetime.

Actually at this Vuelta he and Mas seemed to work exceedingly well as a team duo. He had a tantrum and he should get over it quickly before he screws up what Movistar progress had been made. This was his best shot and the spectre of Roglic putting 4 minutes into him on Stage 21 couldn't have been encouraging.

Honestly it might have been even better viewing seeing Roglic stomp past 2nd and 3rd in the TT.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

so it was nationalistic decision made. Nothing new for Movistar.

I would challenge you to defend that accusation.
Three things could have happened within Movistar's control:

1. Lopez catches up with the Haig group under his own steam (he tried, and failed)
2. Mas could have dropped to assist Lopez in catching up (in other words, jeopardising almost certain 2nd on GC in the hope of retaining 3rd going into the TT, in which it could easily have been lost)
3. Having riders already dropped catch up with the Lopez group and assist in closing the gap to the Haig group (tried and failed)

Please explain:
a) why option 2 would have been beneficial to the team, and
b) why favouring second place over a possibility of third is nationalistic.

 

[Fantastico]

This narrative of nationalistic decisions against South Americans does not make any sense at all.

Movistar had a lot of GTs in the last 10 years where a South American was their clear leader or at least co-leader. They are even scouting these riders emphatically, as the Latin American market is very important to the sponsor (maybe even more important than the European one). So why should they act against the sponsor's interest?

In fact, there have been plenty of incidents where Movistar sacrificed the chances of some Spanish riders, as the South Americans appeared to be more likely to get them victories (Landa riding for Carapaz in Giro 2019, Carapaz also announced as their leader for Vuelta 2019 before his crash, Soler forced to wait for Quintana in Vuelta 2019, Valverde riding for Quintana in Tour 2017 despite being stronger...).

They also did not stop MAL's attack on Gamoniteiru, even if he gained time on Mas.

 

[noob]

So the rumor is that he is going back to Astana or to work for Pogacar at UAE.
If he goes to UAE, it will be official that UAE is the new death star, or the new empire, whatever you want to call it. LOL.
Same as New England picking great talent for low price because other teams cannot manage them. We'll see.

The thought of him with Almeida at the Giro could have been quite interesting.