Mikel Landa Discussion Thread

[Arredondo]

Re:

Maybe a somewhat predictable performance today, he should be better tomorrow on better climbs for him? Anyways, I still really dont have any clue how he won on Amurrio

Mainly because the big guys let Landa and Kelderman go. And mainly because he had a better day then.

But i think however that the main goal for Landa this PV was to work for Henao, and getting a better shape himself.

 

[SeriousSam]

Today confirms that yesterday was a pure manifestation of raw climbing ability, as opposed to carefully build-up form, which characterises the performances of some of the other riders. What a talent

 

[JRanton]

Re:

Today confirms that yesterday was a pure manifestation of raw climbing ability, as opposed to carefully build-up form, which characterises the performances of some of the other riders. What a talent

Yes, he has an extraordinary talent. His coach and himself were both very surprised by the win. I'd like to see him go a bit better tomorrow, as he should be building his form now constantly until the Giro.

 

[Taxus4a]

Re:

Maybe a somewhat predictable performance today, he should be better tomorrow on better climbs for him? Anyways, I still really dont have any clue how he won on Amurrio

He was the forst surprised. But he came here to get shape, help Henao and try to win a stage. I said he could win if he start from the bottom and favourites look ech others.

But the main reason is that is was his home, 15 km away to his house, he knew very well the stage and the climb, and all his town, friends, etc,, were there at the climb. There is an amotionakl factor in cycling thatmake this sport very big.

As I said in Pais Vasco thread a few hours ago, Landa is afected by pressure, he use to ride very well when nobody expect him, and he use to thinks too much when everybody expect him, and he use to fail.

I told you that today was impossible to see Landa to go crazy as you ask, Aia is not a good climb for him. Garrastatxu wanst the best for him, but is not so step and longer.

He should pay the extra effort to be still third in GC, but with him you never knows. He is that kind of riders like Freire with an special talent and they are not in the same schemes than the rest.

 

[Matteo.]

Re: Re:

Maybe a somewhat predictable performance today, he should be better tomorrow on better climbs for him? Anyways, I still really dont have any clue how he won on Amurrio

He was the forst surprised. But he came here to get shape, help Henao and try to win a stage. I said he could win if he start from the bottom and favourites look ech others.

But the main reason is that is was his home, 15 km away to his house, he knew very well the stage and the climb, and all his town, friends, etc,, were there at the climb. There is an amotionakl factor in cycling thatmake this sport very big.

As I said in Pais Vasco thread a few hours ago, Landa is afected by pressure, he use to ride very well when nobody expect him, and he use to thinks too much when everybody expect him, and he use to fail.

I told you that today was impossible to see Landa to go crazy as you ask, Aia is not a good climb for him. Garrastatxu wanst the best for him, but is not so step and longer.

He should pay the extra effort to be still third in GC, but with him you never knows. He is that kind of riders like Freire with an special talent and they are not in the same schemes than the rest.

It does not sound good for someone who wants to win a GT

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

Today confirms that yesterday was a pure manifestation of raw climbing ability, as opposed to carefully build-up form, which characterises the performances of some of the other riders. What a talent

I think that pretty much sums it up, incredible talent, but a few major flaws as well. Just the way a climber should be!

 

[SevenTimeTdfChamp]

Landa didnt drop contador in the giro. When you have a huge time advantage over someone there is no need to go after every single attack. Contador rode smart and conserved his strength. I dont think Landa being the leader would have changed any thing. Some days Contador defended against Landa and other days Aru so it was a balance between looseing and gaining time on the different astana riders

 

[blackmamba]

Re:

Landa didnt drop contador in the giro. When you have a huge time advantage over someone there is no need to go after every single attack. Contador rode smart and conserved his strength. I dont think Landa being the leader would have changed any thing. Some days Contador defended against Landa and other days Aru so it was a balance between looseing and gaining time on the different astana riders

Exactly for Contador to spend anymore energy than needed was stupid since all he cared about in that giro was saving energy for the Tour. And still people think landa would beat him if he was the leader CAUSE he dropped contador a few times when contador didnt need to follow him AT ALL and would only be *** if he did so. Guys think just think

 

[Ataraxus]

Re: Re:

Landa didnt drop contador in the giro. When you have a huge time advantage over someone there is no need to go after every single attack. Contador rode smart and conserved his strength. I dont think Landa being the leader would have changed any thing. Some days Contador defended against Landa and other days Aru so it was a balance between looseing and gaining time on the different astana riders

Exactly for Contador to spend anymore energy than needed was stupid since all he cared about in that giro was saving energy for the Tour. And still people think landa would beat him if he was the leader CAUSE he dropped contador a few times when contador didnt need to follow him AT ALL and would only be *** if he did so. Guys think just think

The most rational conclusions regarding last year's Giro (IMHO) are:
1-Contador was the deserving winner of 2015 Giro and 2-Landa was the strongest in the mountains.
Any opinion with deviation from those statements is tainted with wishful thinking.

 

[blackmamba]

Re: Re:

Landa didnt drop contador in the giro. When you have a huge time advantage over someone there is no need to go after every single attack. Contador rode smart and conserved his strength. I dont think Landa being the leader would have changed any thing. Some days Contador defended against Landa and other days Aru so it was a balance between looseing and gaining time on the different astana riders

Exactly for Contador to spend anymore energy than needed was stupid since all he cared about in that giro was saving energy for the Tour. And still people think landa would beat him if he was the leader CAUSE he dropped contador a few times when contador didnt need to follow him AT ALL and would only be *** if he did so. Guys think just think

The most rational conclusions regarding last year's Giro (IMHO) are:
1-Contador was the deserving winner of 2015 Giro and 2-Landa was the strongest in the mountains.
Any opinion other than those is tainted with wishful thinking.

Yes, but also the Landa was the strongest in the mountain is a little bit tainted. Yes he was the strongest but that might be as much beacuse Contador rode smart enough to preserve energy to the Tour as is was Landa really was strongest in the mountains. Remember Contador didnt need to be the strongest and also it would be *** for him to be that aswell when he didnt need to cause of his ambitious giro-tour plans, and when you take into the account the answer is solid: its pure speculation!

We will never know that and to be honest it doesnt matter at all and in my opinion a completly pointless to discusion.

 

[Taxus4a]

Re: Re:

Maybe a somewhat predictable performance today, he should be better tomorrow on better climbs for him? Anyways, I still really dont have any clue how he won on Amurrio

He was the forst surprised. But he came here to get shape, help Henao and try to win a stage. I said he could win if he start from the bottom and favourites look ech others.

But the main reason is that is was his home, 15 km away to his house, he knew very well the stage and the climb, and all his town, friends, etc,, were there at the climb. There is an amotionakl factor in cycling thatmake this sport very big.

As I said in Pais Vasco thread a few hours ago, Landa is afected by pressure, he use to ride very well when nobody expect him, and he use to thinks too much when everybody expect him, and he use to fail.

I told you that today was impossible to see Landa to go crazy as you ask, Aia is not a good climb for him. Garrastatxu wanst the best for him, but is not so step and longer.

He should pay the extra effort to be still third in GC, but with him you never knows. He is that kind of riders like Freire with an special talent and they are not in the same schemes than the rest.

It does not sound good for someone who wants to win a GT

No, it is not the best guy to bet for him, it is a lottery.
But I think he is ok in SKY, they payed a big money for him, but he has no pressure. This good early important result is going to be very good for him.

Last year the same I say that if Astana change his strategy Landa would have won the Giro, if Lana is not in Astana, with such big riders as Cataldo, Luis León,... a team who let him just follow in the TTT and protect him very well in the first stages, with the aim to help Aru, the only and clear lider, he surely wouldnt be podium.

But I think he is going to improve in that, it is not always easy for everybody to halndle with pressure, but I think he will do. Contador sometimes want to say something that make him not the favourite, he need to do something that is more than predictable on him (that is difficult in his case), so he is especially motivated when he is injury or things like that (i dont think he is afected by pressure, ofcourse no). I think Landa is that kind of guy. It is like this good student who is expected to have a 10 at the exam and a 9 is a dissapointment.

When I talk with Landa I always talk to him without any pressure, but he need to be as well recognize as the talent he is. When he was second in Indurain he was in a better shape than today, but the team didnt want anybody who could question Samu leaderhip. Landa just wanted to help, but with the oportunity to show his potential. He was quite angry for that.

 

[Red Rick]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iakiikxxLu8

Some nice points made by this guy.

Though I do think Landa was the better climber, the difference wasn't that big. If Contador hadn't flatted before the Mortirolo, we would have learnt more about how good Landa really was.

 

[Taxus4a]

I read now that Contador race smart to save energy for the Tour...and he lost 10 minutes in le Tour. He was the same "tired" from the begining till the end"

For that reason he was so smart that tried to follow Landa in Finestre, when it was very difficultt that Landa alone will take more than 2 minutes with a soft climb as Sestrieres ahead if Contador just keep his energies and ride intelligent.

It was his ego who did that, the same that when 5 weeks later he tried to follow Froome in Huy.

 

[SevenTimeTdfChamp]

Re:

I read now that Contador race smart to save energy for the Tour...and he lost 10 minutes in le Tour. He was the same "tired" from the begining till the end"

For that reason he was so smart that tried to follow Landa in Finestre, when it was very difficultt that Landa alone will take more than 2 minutes with a soft climb as Sestrieres ahead if Contador just keep his energies and ride intelligent.

It was his ego who did that, the same that when 5 weeks later he tried to follow Froome in Huy.

Okay .. last season contador tried to gain peak form for the tour by riding the giro and accomplish the doubble. Astanas many many attacks nearly every day made Contador overtrain so he never reached peak form.. And btw froome coudnt even finish the Vuelta after the tour, and Nibali couldnt do the giro vuelta doubble, so i think winning the giro and a 5 place in the tour is an okay result. An on the Sestrieres stage contador had an 5' 15 advantage over landa.. why follow and risk going into the red when he could just sid up and go op the climb at his own tempo

And yeah the mortirolo climb was impressive.. he did the climb nearly one min faster than landa

 

[Taxus4a]

Re: Re:

Landa didnt drop contador in the giro. When you have a huge time advantage over someone there is no need to go after every single attack. Contador rode smart and conserved his strength. I dont think Landa being the leader would have changed any thing. Some days Contador defended against Landa and other days Aru so it was a balance between looseing and gaining time on the different astana riders

Exactly for Contador to spend anymore energy than needed was stupid since all he cared about in that giro was saving energy for the Tour. And still people think landa would beat him if he was the leader CAUSE he dropped contador a few times when contador didnt need to follow him AT ALL and would only be *** if he did so. Guys think just think

The most rational conclusions regarding last year's Giro (IMHO) are:
1-Contador was the deserving winner of 2015 Giro and 2-Landa was the strongest in the mountains.
Any opinion with deviation from those statements is tainted with wishful thinking.

I dont know if rational, but it is not necesary to know a lot about cycling to see that if Landa alone could drop Contador 2 times and one of them he was stopeed, if Aru act as second leader and he attack before and Contador had to work with Landa at his wheel, Landa could have put a lot of time on Contador. withourt playing a secondd card, just letting Landa free is just speculation, IMO Landa would have won as well, but I am not very sure.

Astana had an italian leader, Contador is a friend of Martinelli and Vino old team mates,and there was a lot of interest in Contador winning Giro (once he decided to go). As happen in the world politics if someone is not of the power structure he has little options. In that Giro was that way. I could understand that if they knew for sure Landa will win the Giro coudl change the strategy, but they are not going to risk Aru podium for something not sure. Aru win and second Contador would be OK, butnot Landa winning. Aru is a sumissed rider, Nibali has demostrated he is different.

 

[dacooley]

landa and contador were not competing one against another at the mortirolo until aru cracked as landa was entirely at aru's service.

 

[Taxus4a]

Re: Re:

I read now that Contador race smart to save energy for the Tour...and he lost 10 minutes in le Tour. He was the same "tired" from the begining till the end"

For that reason he was so smart that tried to follow Landa in Finestre, when it was very difficultt that Landa alone will take more than 2 minutes with a soft climb as Sestrieres ahead if Contador just keep his energies and ride intelligent.

It was his ego who did that, the same that when 5 weeks later he tried to follow Froome in Huy.

Okay .. last season contador tried to gain peak form for the tour by riding the giro and accomplish the doubble. Astanas many many attacks nearly every day made Contador overtrain so he never reached peak form.. And btw froome coudnt even finish the Vuelta after the tour, and Nibali couldnt do the giro vuelta doubble, so i think winning the giro and a 5 place in the tour is an okay result. An on the Sestrieres stage contador had an 5' 15 advantage over landa.. why follow and risk going into the red when he could just sid up and go op the climb at his own tempo

And yeah the mortirolo climb was impressive.. he did the climb nearly one min faster than landa

Froome didnt finish Vuelta fro a crash, my friend, he was the clear favourite and IMo he would have won la Vuelta with 5 minutes difference without that crash, but that is just especulation, of course, but he showed in cumbre del sol he was ready to win, and he had the ITT. at least you have to say you never knows. Valverde did 4 in the Tour and 3rd in la Vuelta the previou year. To win Giro and be 5th in le Tour is a good result, but he was thinking to be in shape to win le Tour, so if he didnt give everything to win le Giro, otr of he wanst in his best hape, his result in the Giro is very good, but his result in le Tour is quite dissapointing.

At least I dont think Contador say ever he wnst in the Giro at his best and he didnt give everything.

 

[SevenTimeTdfChamp]

Still dosent change the fact that rode the climb one min faster

 

[ice&fire]

Re: Re:

Astana had an italian leader, Contador is a friend of Martinelli and Vino old team mates,and there was a lot of interest in Contador winning Giro (once he decided to go). As happen in the world politics if someone is not of the power structure he has little options. In that Giro was that way. I could understand that if they knew for sure Landa will win the Giro coudl change the strategy, but they are not going to risk Aru podium for something not sure. Aru win and second Contador would be OK, butnot Landa winning. Aru is a sumissed rider, Nibali has demostrated he is different.

One think we know for sure: Landa is no Stephen Roche.

 

[Ataraxus]

Re: Re:

Landa didnt drop contador in the giro. When you have a huge time advantage over someone there is no need to go after every single attack. Contador rode smart and conserved his strength. I dont think Landa being the leader would have changed any thing. Some days Contador defended against Landa and other days Aru so it was a balance between looseing and gaining time on the different astana riders

Exactly for Contador to spend anymore energy than needed was stupid since all he cared about in that giro was saving energy for the Tour. And still people think landa would beat him if he was the leader CAUSE he dropped contador a few times when contador didnt need to follow him AT ALL and would only be *** if he did so. Guys think just think

The most rational conclusions regarding last year's Giro (IMHO) are:
1-Contador was the deserving winner of 2015 Giro and 2-Landa was the strongest in the mountains.
Any opinion other than those is tainted with wishful thinking.

Yes, but also the Landa was the strongest in the mountain is a little bit tainted. Yes he was the strongest but that might be as much beacuse Contador rode smart enough to preserve energy to the Tour as is was Landa really was strongest in the mountains. Remember Contador didnt need to be the strongest and also it would be *** for him to be that aswell when he didnt need to cause of his ambitious giro-tour plans, and when you take into the account the answer is solid: its pure speculation!

We will never know that and to be honest it doesnt matter at all and in my opinion a completly pointless to discusion.

Landa WAS the strongest in the mountains. The overall time gain, the number of stages he gapped AC compared to the ones he was gapped and the successful attacks in the opponent's face clearly demonstrate that.
Saying "he would've been the strongest if he hadn't conserved energy" is similar to saying " Landa would've won the Giro, had the team ridden for him".
If one of those phrases is wishful thinking, the other must be as well

 

[bajbar]

Re: Re:

I read now that Contador race smart to save energy for the Tour...and he lost 10 minutes in le Tour. He was the same "tired" from the begining till the end"

For that reason he was so smart that tried to follow Landa in Finestre, when it was very difficultt that Landa alone will take more than 2 minutes with a soft climb as Sestrieres ahead if Contador just keep his energies and ride intelligent.

It was his ego who did that, the same that when 5 weeks later he tried to follow Froome in Huy.

Okay .. last season contador tried to gain peak form for the tour by riding the giro and accomplish the doubble. Astanas many many attacks nearly every day made Contador overtrain so he never reached peak form.. And btw froome coudnt even finish the Vuelta after the tour, and Nibali couldnt do the giro vuelta doubble, so i think winning the giro and a 5 place in the tour is an okay result. An on the Sestrieres stage contador had an 5' 15 advantage over landa.. why follow and risk going into the red when he could just sid up and go op the climb at his own tempo

And yeah the mortirolo climb was impressive.. he did the climb nearly one min faster than landa

Froome didnt finish Vuelta fro a crash, my friend, he was the clear favourite and IMo he would have won la Vuelta with 5 minutes difference without that crash, but that is just especulation, of course, but he showed in cumbre del sol he was ready to win, and he had the ITT. at least you have to say you never knows. Valverde did 4 in the Tour and 3rd in la Vuelta the previou year. To win Giro and be 5th in le Tour is a good result, but he was thinking to be in shape to win le Tour, so if he didnt give everything to win le Giro, otr of he wanst in his best hape, his result in the Giro is very good, but his result in le Tour is quite dissapointing.

At least I dont think Contador say ever he wnst in the Giro at his best and he didnt give everything.

Okay, he had a slim chance of winning (not that i think he would, if Quintana clearly couldn't do it), but 5 minutes on Aru? Are you living in a fantasy world

 

[SevenTimeTdfChamp]

Re: Re:

I read now that Contador race smart to save energy for the Tour...and he lost 10 minutes in le Tour. He was the same "tired" from the begining till the end"

For that reason he was so smart that tried to follow Landa in Finestre, when it was very difficultt that Landa alone will take more than 2 minutes with a soft climb as Sestrieres ahead if Contador just keep his energies and ride intelligent.

It was his ego who did that, the same that when 5 weeks later he tried to follow Froome in Huy.

Okay .. last season contador tried to gain peak form for the tour by riding the giro and accomplish the doubble. Astanas many many attacks nearly every day made Contador overtrain so he never reached peak form.. And btw froome coudnt even finish the Vuelta after the tour, and Nibali couldnt do the giro vuelta doubble, so i think winning the giro and a 5 place in the tour is an okay result. An on the Sestrieres stage contador had an 5' 15 advantage over landa.. why follow and risk going into the red when he could just sid up and go op the climb at his own tempo

And yeah the mortirolo climb was impressive.. he did the climb nearly one min faster than landa

Froome didnt finish Vuelta fro a crash, my friend, he was the clear favourite and IMo he would have won la Vuelta with 5 minutes difference without that crash, but that is just especulation, of course, but he showed in cumbre del sol he was ready to win, and he had the ITT. at least you have to say you never knows. Valverde did 4 in the Tour and 3rd in la Vuelta the previou year. To win Giro and be 5th in le Tour is a good result, but he was thinking to be in shape to win le Tour, so if he didnt give everything to win le Giro, otr of he wanst in his best hape, his result in the Giro is very good, but his result in le Tour is quite dissapointing.

At least I dont think Contador say ever he wnst in the Giro at his best and he didnt give everything.

Haha yeah okay missed the part about froome crashing Also i have to know do you know Landa ? you mention in some of yout post that you talk to him

 

[SevenTimeTdfChamp]

Re: Re:

Landa didnt drop contador in the giro. When you have a huge time advantage over someone there is no need to go after every single attack. Contador rode smart and conserved his strength. I dont think Landa being the leader would have changed any thing. Some days Contador defended against Landa and other days Aru so it was a balance between looseing and gaining time on the different astana riders

Exactly for Contador to spend anymore energy than needed was stupid since all he cared about in that giro was saving energy for the Tour. And still people think landa would beat him if he was the leader CAUSE he dropped contador a few times when contador didnt need to follow him AT ALL and would only be *** if he did so. Guys think just think

The most rational conclusions regarding last year's Giro (IMHO) are:
1-Contador was the deserving winner of 2015 Giro and 2-Landa was the strongest in the mountains.
Any opinion other than those is tainted with wishful thinking.

Yes, but also the Landa was the strongest in the mountain is a little bit tainted. Yes he was the strongest but that might be as much beacuse Contador rode smart enough to preserve energy to the Tour as is was Landa really was strongest in the mountains. Remember Contador didnt need to be the strongest and also it would be *** for him to be that aswell when he didnt need to cause of his ambitious giro-tour plans, and when you take into the account the answer is solid: its pure speculation!

We will never know that and to be honest it doesnt matter at all and in my opinion a completly pointless to discusion.

Landa WAS the strongest in the mountains. The overall time gain, the number of stages he gapped AC compared to the ones he was gapped and the successful attacks in the opponent's face clearly demonstrate that.
Saying "he would've been the strongest if he hadn't conserved energy" is similar to saying " Landa would've won the Giro, had the team ridden for him".
If one of those phrases is wishful thinking, the other must be as well

Maybe he was , but a race isnt just won in the mountains . And he had the luxury of not having to follow 2 riders

 

[Taxus4a]

Re: Re:

I read now that Contador race smart to save energy for the Tour...and he lost 10 minutes in le Tour. He was the same "tired" from the begining till the end"

For that reason he was so smart that tried to follow Landa in Finestre, when it was very difficultt that Landa alone will take more than 2 minutes with a soft climb as Sestrieres ahead if Contador just keep his energies and ride intelligent.

It was his ego who did that, the same that when 5 weeks later he tried to follow Froome in Huy.

Okay .. last season contador tried to gain peak form for the tour by riding the giro and accomplish the doubble. Astanas many many attacks nearly every day made Contador overtrain so he never reached peak form.. And btw froome coudnt even finish the Vuelta after the tour, and Nibali couldnt do the giro vuelta doubble, so i think winning the giro and a 5 place in the tour is an okay result. An on the Sestrieres stage contador had an 5' 15 advantage over landa.. why follow and risk going into the red when he could just sid up and go op the climb at his own tempo

And yeah the mortirolo climb was impressive.. he did the climb nearly one min faster than landa

Froome didnt finish Vuelta fro a crash, my friend, he was the clear favourite and IMo he would have won la Vuelta with 5 minutes difference without that crash, but that is just especulation, of course, but he showed in cumbre del sol he was ready to win, and he had the ITT. at least you have to say you never knows. Valverde did 4 in the Tour and 3rd in la Vuelta the previou year. To win Giro and be 5th in le Tour is a good result, but he was thinking to be in shape to win le Tour, so if he didnt give everything to win le Giro, otr of he wanst in his best hape, his result in the Giro is very good, but his result in le Tour is quite dissapointing.

At least I dont think Contador say ever he wnst in the Giro at his best and he didnt give everything.

Okay, he had a slim chance of winning (not that i think he would, if Quintana clearly couldn't do it), but 5 minutes on Aru? Are you living in a fantasy world

Well, in that case it is just my opinion, it is speculation and it is an arguable discussion, nobody knows what would have happend, and maybe i must hide my thoughts. Maye 5 minutes is too much, especially becouse he didnt need win with a big difference, (but if he needed to recover 5 minutes becouse a mechanical) but IMO 5 minutes is the difference with that route between a fresh Aru and he little bit tired for thr Tour Froome. The same tired and with another route will be 10 minutes as we will see (just IMo) on le Tour.

 

[Valv.Piti]

I agree, I can't see Froome losing that Vuelta. Valverde was clearly spent, Quintana was hit by a cold which really hurt him, Aru wasn't dominating at any point (reminds of the Nibali's 2010 Vuelta), Rodriguez was nothing near 2012/2013 and Dumoulin capitulated on that and this was able to survive so long. Majka is Majka, not GC-winning potential.

The thing is, with speculative things, we can't say for sure. But one thing thats for sure is Landa clearly was the better climber when they hit the big mountains, I can't see anyone denying that and using the same old excuses for Contador