Mikel Landa Discussion Thread

[Taxus4a]

Re:

You make a one very critical error in your post, you assume that the GPS is correct, which was definitely not.

I took my times, but I think he was at 50 second at the bottom, wich is the only important. Maybe that time when the GPS showed 40 and increasing at 45 was wrong, and of coure at the end when contador was at 10 econds and the GPS said 40 was wrong, but for what I explained it doesnt matter.

it is just to look at how fast Bardiani rider, Nocentini and Anton were, to realized Contador had some help and that even in Mortirolo there are some parts at the begining when draft is a problem.

To judge that stage in a global vision, we must to look at those 50 seconds Contador recover in Mortirolo, but a well in a lot of things.

 

[burning]

Re: Re:

You make a one very critical error in your post, you assume that the GPS is correct, which was definitely not.

I took my times, but I think he was at 50 second at the bottom, wich is the only important. Maybe that time when the GPS showed 40 and increasing at 45 was wrong, and of coure at the end when contador was at 10 econds and the GPS said 40 was wrong, but for what I explained it doesnt matter.

it is just to look at how fast Bardiani rider, Nocentini and Anton were, to realized Contador had some help and that even in Mortirolo there are some parts at the begining when draft is a problem.

To judge that stage in a global vision, we must to look at those 50 seconds Contador recover in Mortirolo, but a well in a lot of things.

These all makes sense, still that was a big ride by Contador even though Anton and Noncentini pulled for him.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Taxus, there really aren't much false flat on Mortirolo, but I haven't looked at it so detailed as you. Thing is, that was the best Contador looked all year uphill to me.

Funny how Landa's odds for Il Giro dropped from being the 3rd favourite at 7 to the 2nd favourite at 4,5 behind Nibble's 2. I can't wait, Valverde will have his work cut out. Landa and Nibali have done this before, never Piti.

 

[Rollthedice]

Re:

Taxus, there really aren't much false flat on Mortirolo, but I haven't looked at it so detailed as you. Thing is, that was the best Contador looked all year uphill to me.

Funny how Landa's odds for Il Giro dropped from being the 3rd favourite at 7 to the 2nd favourite at 4,5 behind Nibble's 2. I can't wait, Valverde will have his work cut out. Landa and Nibali have done this before, never Piti.

I still rate Valverde with better chances against Nibs than Landa. It's hard to win a GT if you're a one trick pony even if you're one of the best at that trick.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Taxus, there really aren't much false flat on Mortirolo, but I haven't looked at it so detailed as you. Thing is, that was the best Contador looked all year uphill to me.

Funny how Landa's odds for Il Giro dropped from being the 3rd favourite at 7 to the 2nd favourite at 4,5 behind Nibble's 2. I can't wait, Valverde will have his work cut out. Landa and Nibali have done this before, never Piti.

I still rate Valverde with better chances against Nibs than Landa. It's hard to win a GT if you're a one trick pony even if you're one of the best at that trick.

I think Valverde and Landa's chances are about equal on this route. Had it been the route of 2014, Landa would probably even been the flat out favourite and 2015 suited him better as well than 2016. I think this route is for the more complete riders, which is good, but there are still a few big opportunities for Landa, especially stage 14 and 20

 

[Taxus4a]

Re:

Taxus, there really aren't much false flat on Mortirolo, but I haven't looked at it so detailed as you. Thing is, that was the best Contador looked all year uphill to me.

Funny how Landa's odds for Il Giro dropped from being the 3rd favourite at 7 to the 2nd favourite at 4,5 behind Nibble's 2. I can't wait, Valverde will have his work cut out. Landa and Nibali have done this before, never Piti.

The climb is 10,5 % average, it has some 18 % parts, so it has another not very tep parts. The part Nocentini help was 9 %, it is hard, but they were climbing fast, at more than 20 Km/h, so then the draft is a factor.

Look at the video.

i didnt say Contador climb wanst impressing, but for me that day Landa and Hesjedal were more impressing and Kruiswijk similar to Contador.

A stage to remember anyway and of coure races with Contador are more interesting.

 

[Taxus4a]

Re: Re:

Taxus, there really aren't much false flat on Mortirolo, but I haven't looked at it so detailed as you. Thing is, that was the best Contador looked all year uphill to me.

Funny how Landa's odds for Il Giro dropped from being the 3rd favourite at 7 to the 2nd favourite at 4,5 behind Nibble's 2. I can't wait, Valverde will have his work cut out. Landa and Nibali have done this before, never Piti.

I still rate Valverde with better chances against Nibs than Landa. It's hard to win a GT if you're a one trick pony even if you're one of the best at that trick.

I think Valverde and Landa's chances are about equal on this route. Had it been the route of 2014, Landa would probably even been the flat out favourite and 2015 suited him better as well than 2016. I think this route is for the more complete riders, which is good, but there are still a few big opportunities for Landa, especially stage 14 and 20

Stages where you can easily lose 5 minutes, this is not Vuelta a España.

 

[Matteo.]

Re: Re:

Taxus, there really aren't much false flat on Mortirolo, but I haven't looked at it so detailed as you. Thing is, that was the best Contador looked all year uphill to me.

Funny how Landa's odds for Il Giro dropped from being the 3rd favourite at 7 to the 2nd favourite at 4,5 behind Nibble's 2. I can't wait, Valverde will have his work cut out. Landa and Nibali have done this before, never Piti.

I still rate Valverde with better chances against Nibs than Landa. It's hard to win a GT if you're a one trick pony even if you're one of the best at that trick.

The best Contador of 2015 was on Monte Ologno

 

[Isaak-Gabriel]

Re: Re:

Taxus, there really aren't much false flat on Mortirolo, but I haven't looked at it so detailed as you. Thing is, that was the best Contador looked all year uphill to me.

Funny how Landa's odds for Il Giro dropped from being the 3rd favourite at 7 to the 2nd favourite at 4,5 behind Nibble's 2. I can't wait, Valverde will have his work cut out. Landa and Nibali have done this before, never Piti.

I still rate Valverde with better chances against Nibs than Landa. It's hard to win a GT if you're a one trick pony even if you're one of the best at that trick.

The best Contador of 2015 was on Monte Ologno

In an other style I would say on TT of Valdobbiadene.

 

[Matteo.]

Re: Re:

Taxus, there really aren't much false flat on Mortirolo, but I haven't looked at it so detailed as you. Thing is, that was the best Contador looked all year uphill to me.

Funny how Landa's odds for Il Giro dropped from being the 3rd favourite at 7 to the 2nd favourite at 4,5 behind Nibble's 2. I can't wait, Valverde will have his work cut out. Landa and Nibali have done this before, never Piti.

I still rate Valverde with better chances against Nibs than Landa. It's hard to win a GT if you're a one trick pony even if you're one of the best at that trick.

The best Contador of 2015 was on Monte Ologno

In an other style I would say on TT of Valdobbiadene.

yeah , it's also true.
Indeed, Contador said that day was the only one in wich he felt at 100%

 

[Metabolol]

Last year, I said Contador would have won even if Landa was free to ride as he wanted. But now, I believe as Taxus that Landa would have won, yes he lost a lot of time in the TT but he could have made that up in the mountains. Contador was ok on the Mortirolo but had Landa gone all out he could have gained 2-3min on that stage instead of approx 40 sec.

At the same time Contador did crash and it had a certain impact, how much is obviously up for discussion and speculation.

 

[burning]

Re:

Last year, I said Contador would have won even if Landa was free to ride as he wanted. But now, I believe as Taxus that Landa would have won, yes he lost a lot of time in the TTs but he could have made that up in the mountains. Contador was ok on the Mortirolo but had Landa gone all out he could have gained 2-3min on that stage instead of approx 40 sec.

At the same time Contador did crash and it had a certain impact, how much is obviously up for discussion and speculation.

Astana were never going to win the Giro, he is just mad that Contador beat whole Astana team on his own.

 

[Metabolol]

Re: Re:

Last year, I said Contador would have won even if Landa was free to ride as he wanted. But now, I believe as Taxus that Landa would have won, yes he lost a lot of time in the TTs but he could have made that up in the mountains. Contador was ok on the Mortirolo but had Landa gone all out he could have gained 2-3min on that stage instead of approx 40 sec.

At the same time Contador did crash and it had a certain impact, how much is obviously up for discussion and speculation.

Astana were never going to win the Giro, he is just mad that Contador beat whole Astana team on his own.

Maybe not Astana, but Landa could have.

 

[burning]

Re: Re:

Last year, I said Contador would have won even if Landa was free to ride as he wanted. But now, I believe as Taxus that Landa would have won, yes he lost a lot of time in the TTs but he could have made that up in the mountains. Contador was ok on the Mortirolo but had Landa gone all out he could have gained 2-3min on that stage instead of approx 40 sec.

At the same time Contador did crash and it had a certain impact, how much is obviously up for discussion and speculation.

Astana were never going to win the Giro, he is just mad that Contador beat whole Astana team on his own.

Maybe not Astana, but Landa could have.

Nope, he was never going to magically gain extra 3 minutes on Contador, he simply had too much after the TT.

 

[Matteo.]

Re:

Last year, I said Contador would have won even if Landa was free to ride as he wanted. But now, I believe as Taxus that Landa would have won, yes he lost a lot of time in the TT but he could have made that up in the mountains. Contador was ok on the Mortirolo but had Landa gone all out he could have gained 2-3min on that stage instead of approx 40 sec.

At the same time Contador did crash and it had a certain impact, how much is obviously up for discussion and speculation.

I'm Contador fan for first , but i agree on that. if Landa was free , he would have won the Giro

 

[Metabolol]

Re: Re:

Maybe not Astana, but Landa could have. [/quote]

Nope, he was never going to magically gain extra 3 minutes on Contador, he simply had too much after the TT.[/quote]

He could have gained 2 maybe up to 3 min just on the Aprica stage. Sestriere he gained 2min, if he was free to ride certainly more. Of course if he goes in as a leader that changes the dynamic of the whole race.

I'm a Contador fan but taxus was right.

 

[staubsauger]

Jean-Claude Leclercq also agrees that Landa likely might've won that Giro as Astanas leader and so do I!

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

Jean-Claude Leclercq also agrees that Landa likely might've won that Giro as Astanas leader and so do I!

I can't see how he wouldn't. We can obviously only speculate, but I think he would at least have put 2 minutes into Contador in Aprica if it wasn't for his Italian anchor that day and we all saw what unfolded on Finestre.. good thing is, he will have the opportunity to show it this year against Nibali!

 

[staubsauger]

Re: Re:

Jean-Claude Leclercq also agrees that Landa likely might've won that Giro as Astanas leader and so do I!

I can't see how he wouldn't. We can obviously only speculate, but I think he would at least have put 2 minutes into Contador in Aprica if it wasn't for his Italian anchor that day and we all saw what unfolded on Finestre.. good thing is, he will have the opportunity to show it this year against Nibali!

Landa would've been the one gaining a minute on Contador at Cervinia as well. Why should Contador have been able to cope his attack there if he ain't been able to do so during the whole Giro!

Yeah. Hopefully he really does just that!

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Jean-Claude Leclercq also agrees that Landa likely might've won that Giro as Astanas leader and so do I!

I can't see how he wouldn't. We can obviously only speculate, but I think he would at least have put 2 minutes into Contador in Aprica if it wasn't for his Italian anchor that day and we all saw what unfolded on Finestre.. good thing is, he will have the opportunity to show it this year against Nibali!

Landa would've been the one gaining a minute on Contador at Cervinia as well. Why should Contador have been able to cope his attack there if he ain't been able to do so during the whole Giro!

Yeah. Hopefully he really does just that!

Indeed.

 

[Taxus4a]

Re:

Last year, I said Contador would have won even if Landa was free to ride as he wanted. But now, I believe as Taxus that Landa would have won, yes he lost a lot of time in the TT but he could have made that up in the mountains. Contador was ok on the Mortirolo but had Landa gone all out he could have gained 2-3min on that stage instead of approx 40 sec.

At the same time Contador did crash and it had a certain impact, how much is obviously up for discussion and speculation.

He would have won not in a face to face with Contador, or at least very difficult, who knows... but by using Aru to attack before, yes. To have two riders for podium is a big advantage.

Landa had a problem one day and Contador very clever attacked and later he had the good help of Hesjedal.

 

[Taxus4a]

For Contador in not so difficult to follow a Landa attack in Cervinia, Contador has a very good aceleration, and Cervinia is not so hard, at least far from Finestre or Mortirolo. There was a lot of people there at the start of Cervinia. It was Landa who attacked before... it is the weaker rider who must attack before, and Aru was weaker than Landa, Contador didnt worry about Aru that day, just Landa.

But if Aru attack in the previous climb , there would be a time where Contador needed to chase with Landa at his wheel, and in that situationis different.


At the same time I admit Landa is not able to drop Contador in a face to face in a climb as Cervinia, with the hard slopes at the begining, and I admit that if Contador didnt try to follow Landa in Finestre he would have followed without problems Aru, Hesjedal, Uran,... group, so Landa could have get one minute at the end, no more.

But with another strategy of Astana in the last week, of course Landa win the Giro, and just Landa againts Contador it would be very close, but that is speculation... ( and dont forget Landa was working as well in the first stages)

 

[staubsauger]

Landa dropped Contador multiple times face to face at the Giro!? No matter what percentage the col in fact had!

Also when Landa had his mechanical he had to settle down in the Aru group, because little angel was struggling badly even against Amador & Co. Potentially Landa might've closed the gap even with Hesjedal not being happy to work with Contador and even stealing his bidon!

At Finestre Contador really tried to cope Landa's attack immediately. But he ain't got no response to give at all. That was definitely face to face after all.

 

[Metabolol]

It's true if Landa goes in as known leader and shows his strength early then obviously the race would have changed too. It's not possible to use simple ABC logic like that. It's not certain at all that Landa would have won such a race. My point is during the race as it was raced, Astana could have set Landa free with a clearly better shot at winning compared to Aru. I don't know how much of Astana's actions was stupidity, politics, national pride and/or maybe money changing hands. But Landa certainly got shortchanged. Maybe in the end he will be the one who gained the most, who knows? I just don't like that he went to Sky. It's too bad that Spain don't have more teams. I miss Euskaltel–Euskadi.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Maybe a somewhat predictable performance today, he should be better tomorrow on better climbs for him? Anyways, I still really dont have any clue how he won on Amurrio