Mikel Landa Discussion Thread

[HelloDolly]

Re:

Finally he had Lopez and Roche. ..not so bad as many had said

Roche closes the gap on and after the climb as Lopez was going backwards from the break

I guess it was the heat that got to Landa

 

[Taxus4a]

Re: Re:

Finally he had Lopez and Roche. ..not so bad as many had said

Roche closes the gap on and after the climb as Lopez was going backwards from the break

I guess it was the heat that got to Landa

Landa is not afected for this kind of hot. last year his team put a high pace in a hotter stage at the begining and he had no problem. He could be afected by 40, as any rider, but not for 30. Some people can imrpove with this weather, as chaves, Valverde, Pozzo,....but he is not very afected by hot...

He had problems with allergy once in Pais Vasco, but really is that Landa was very good today for this kind of stage, so it has no sense to say he wans week or omething similar.. today was more question of the teams...

I could understand if someone says Amador wansnt good today, but it is just he is better at the end of the Giro, when everybody is tired, and this kind of stages you need people to protect you...Amador is very strong these day, and nothing was wrong with him...

 

[Popchu]

I had to watch the race on a LQ stream, but I read this on the Movistar site.

Alejandro Valverde: “I didn't realise Landa had been dropped into the Via Fortino ascent before the Astana riders, who were pushing at the front, told me after the climb.

Landa really dropped?

 

[ray j willings]

Landa is a better climber than Bertie

Like I said last year , Astana were very strong at the Giro and had a real go trying to break Bertie ,but Bertie knew he had the tour coming up so rode very conservative to try and save energy i.e. making landa look a lot better than he his plus Aru had a bad day which also added to the nutjobs on here who thought he was the greatest climber at the giro and now need to suck up a dose of " he's just another Porte " reality

Better climber than Bertie

 

[Valv.Piti]

I get that, Taxus. Thanks for your explanation.

And yes Ray, last year, Landa showed he was the superior climber. Lets wait with the judgments till the end of May, no?

 

[Rollthedice]

Re:

I had to watch the race on a LQ stream, but I read this on the Movistar site.

Alejandro Valverde: “I didn't realise Landa had been dropped into the Via Fortino ascent before the Astana riders, who were pushing at the front, told me after the climb.

Landa really dropped?

Yes. A slightly worse day apparently.

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

Landa is a better climber than Bertie

Like I said last year , Astana were very strong at the Giro and had a real go trying to break Bertie ,but Bertie knew he had the tour coming up so rode very conservative to try and save energy i.e. making landa look a lot better than he his plus Aru had a bad day which also added to the nutjobs on here who thought he was the greatest climber at the giro and now need to suck up a dose of " he's just another Porte " reality

Better climber than Bertie

I think a debate about who is the best climber can't really be determined by a 1.5 km long hill. + of course it is only one stage. Bertie didn't exactly do very well on his first mountian test n february did he?

By the way, i do not think Landa is a better climber than AC, so no need to put this in the "silly bias" folder, it is just that posts like these can by many people seem slighlty provocative, and rarely leads to a very fruitful discussion

 

[lenric]

Landa is a better climber than Bertie

Like I said last year , Astana were very strong at the Giro and had a real go trying to break Bertie ,but Bertie knew he had the tour coming up so rode very conservative to try and save energy i.e. making landa look a lot better than he his plus Aru had a bad day which also added to the nutjobs on here who thought he was the greatest climber at the giro and now need to suck up a dose of " he's just another Porte " reality

Better climber than Bertie

Whether Landa is a better climber than Contador or not is debatable (though one can argue that a top Contador can easily beat a top Landa... as far as we know about Landa's capacity until today).
Having said that, I believe that in last year's Giro Contador was by far the best all rounder, but not the best climber. Not by choice, but because of incapacity. Contador wasn't in his best form which was his intention, because his peak was intended to occur in the Tour.

 

[Red Rick]

Landa is a better climber than Bertie

Like I said last year , Astana were very strong at the Giro and had a real go trying to break Bertie ,but Bertie knew he had the tour coming up so rode very conservative to try and save energy i.e. making landa look a lot better than he his plus Aru had a bad day which also added to the nutjobs on here who thought he was the greatest climber at the giro and now need to suck up a dose of " he's just another Porte " reality

Better climber than Bertie

I think a debate about who is the best climber can't really be determined by a 1.5 km long hill. + of course it is only one stage. Bertie didn't exactly do very well on his first mountian test n february did he?

By the way, i do not think Landa is a better climber than AC, so no need to put this in the "silly bias" folder, it is just that posts like these can by many people seem slighlty provocative, and rarely leads to a very fruitful discussion

Dude, you're posting reasonable and rationally. You wasted again ?

 

[Miburo]

Yea please suck off on astana again and tell vino to get contador back

About Landa, he'll be fine, trentino told us that

 

[SlickMongoose]

Did Landa actually drop back, or was he just badly positioned at the back of the group going into the climb?

 

[Ataraxus]

Re:

Did Landa actually drop back, or was he just badly positioned at the back of the group going into the climb?

The gap in attach.

The actual mistake was made by the third Astana rider (Scarponi me thinks). Just after the climb, at the bridge, he tried to bridge to Nibali, Fuglsang, Piti and Krujsviijk. That move helped Roche and Landa gete back in.
Had he not tried,we might have had a more interesting development.

 

[HelloDolly]

People blaming SKY team are ignoring what Landa said himself...he did not have a good day ...no team can ride for a rider on a bad day

As for Scarponi helping SKY back on....well there was 8 km to go and alot downhill ...Landa would have gotten back ...As can be seen by the footage Roche pulled him back without Scarponi

The question is was it a blip for Landa and he will be ok or was it something else

 

[Taxus4a]

Re:

People blaming SKY team are ignoring what Landa said himself...he did not have a good day ...no team can ride for a rider on a bad day

As for Scarponi helping SKY back on....well there was 8 km to go and alot downhill ...Landa would have gotten back ...As can be seen by the footage Roche pulled him back without Scarponi

The question is was it a blip for Landa and he will be ok or was it something else

He doesnt use to have a good day in a stage with long flats, with a big average speed, with some crosswind, and no long climbs... but the fact is that he had at the end just 2 riders... Astana had a lot of riders... I dont blame SKY, they dont have a super team, but there is a fact Astana is much stronger and some days that could be a problem for Landa.

 

[Ataraxus]

Re:

People blaming SKY team are ignoring what Landa said himself...he did not have a good day ...no team can ride for a rider on a bad day

As for Scarponi helping SKY back on....well there was 8 km to go and alot downhill ...Landa would have gotten back ...As can be seen by the footage Roche pulled him back without Scarponi

The question is was it a blip for Landa and he will be ok or was it something else

Roche pulled him back but Scarponi created the elastic. Had Scarponi stopped, a 50meter gap would have been opened immediately between the first eight and the rest.
I believe Landa would have gotten back anyways, not because of Roche, but because of potential alliances with Zakarin, Firsanov and the others in that group.

 

[Taxus4a]

And I have to add Landa was lucky to be at the back of that Astana train last year. He had to work a little in the first mountains stages, but without that help he wouldnt haven been podium. He even was allowed to be in the first TTT at the back without push...

And once in that position Astana could have won the Giro with him ussiing another strategy, but that is another story...

For this kind of stages he was spected to have Intxausti or Kiriyenka,and at least one of them would have been helping at the end today.

Movistar and Astana will regret didnt take advantage of that little split...

 

[Taxus4a]

Re: Re:

People blaming SKY team are ignoring what Landa said himself...he did not have a good day ...no team can ride for a rider on a bad day

As for Scarponi helping SKY back on....well there was 8 km to go and alot downhill ...Landa would have gotten back ...As can be seen by the footage Roche pulled him back without Scarponi

The question is was it a blip for Landa and he will be ok or was it something else

Roche pulled him back but Scarponi created the elastic. Had Scarponi stopped, a 50meter gap would have been opened immediately between the first eight and the rest.
I believe Landa would have gotten back anyways, not because of Roche, but because of potential alliances with Zakarin, Firsanov and the others in that group.

No in the case Nibali and Valverde work.

 

[Taxus4a]

Scarponi didnt help Landa, Landa was with Roche and some Bardiani boys...

http://www.steephill.tv/players/720/streamable/?title=10+km+to+go,+final+climb+of+Stage+4&dashboard=giro-d-italia&id=s7k0&yr=2016

By the way, spanish commentarors were wrong, Uran was in the main group from the begining, so I was wrong when I said he wanst...

 

[Taxus4a]

Mikel is the man on the right side, at the moment of Pozzovivo attack.

He wanst very well placed, but not very bad.

 

[Irondan]

Re:

Did Landa actually drop back, or was he just badly positioned at the back of the group going into the climb?

He didn't drop back, he was a little off today.

Not to worry, he'll be fine now that they're back to racing. Some riders react weird after a rest day.

 

[JRanton]

Re: Re:

People blaming SKY team are ignoring what Landa said himself...he did not have a good day ...no team can ride for a rider on a bad day

As for Scarponi helping SKY back on....well there was 8 km to go and alot downhill ...Landa would have gotten back ...As can be seen by the footage Roche pulled him back without Scarponi

The question is was it a blip for Landa and he will be ok or was it something else

He doesnt use to have a good day in a stage with long flats, with a big average speed, with some crosswind, and no long climbs... but the fact is that he had at the end just 2 riders... Astana had a lot of riders... I dont blame SKY, they dont have a super team, but there is a fact Astana is much stronger and some days that could be a problem for Landa.

Don't be silly, Taxus. Sky had plenty of riders to support Landa yesterday. One even managed to pull him across to the group of favourites after he wasn't strong enough to follow them on the climb and probably saved him 30 seconds in the process. That's about as good as you can hope for in terms of help from your team. Two riders finished with him at the end and another two were in the group just behind. 5 riders in the top 40. You can't have any complaints with that, especially with Nieve riding like a tourist and coming in way down (hopefully saving energy).

I'm sorry, but if he struggles so much on a stage like today then he simply isn't a rider likely to win a grand tour. There simply aren't enough multi-climb stages, particularly in this Giro, to make back the time.

The losses in the TT's are bad enough but to have a chance of beating a rider like Nibali you can't give away even a second in these types of stages.

 

[JRanton]

Re:

And I have to add Landa was lucky to be at the back of that Astana train last year. He had to work a little in the first mountains stages, but without that help he wouldnt haven been podium. He even was allowed to be in the first TTT at the back without push...

And once in that position Astana could have won the Giro with him ussiing another strategy, but that is another story...

For this kind of stages he was spected to have Intxausti or Kiriyenka,and at least one of them would have been helping at the end today.

Movistar and Astana will regret didnt take advantage of that little split...

Don't worry, they'll have plenty more opportunities and will be smelling blood in these next stages before the time trial.

 

[SeriousSam]

Re: Re:

He doesnt use to have a good day in a stage with long flats, with a big average speed, with some crosswind, and no long climbs... but the fact is that he had at the end just 2 riders... Astana had a lot of riders... I dont blame SKY, they dont have a super team, but there is a fact Astana is much stronger and some days that could be a problem for Landa.

So he doesn't have an elite engine? That would make winning a GT rather difficult.

 

[Red Rick]

Define engine. That breakaway ride in the Vuelta showed a lot of engine to me. All day attacking in the breakaway and climbing the final climb faster than almost all the main guys

 

[Ataraxus]

Re: Re:

People blaming SKY team are ignoring what Landa said himself...he did not have a good day ...no team can ride for a rider on a bad day

As for Scarponi helping SKY back on....well there was 8 km to go and alot downhill ...Landa would have gotten back ...As can be seen by the footage Roche pulled him back without Scarponi

The question is was it a blip for Landa and he will be ok or was it something else

He doesnt use to have a good day in a stage with long flats, with a big average speed, with some crosswind, and no long climbs... but the fact is that he had at the end just 2 riders... Astana had a lot of riders... I dont blame SKY, they dont have a super team, but there is a fact Astana is much stronger and some days that could be a problem for Landa.

Don't be silly, Taxus. Sky had plenty of riders to support Landa yesterday. One even managed to pull him across to the group of favourites after he wasn't strong enough to follow them on the climb and probably saved him 30 seconds in the process. That's about as good as you can hope for in terms of help from your team. Two riders finished with him at the end and another two were in the group just behind. 5 riders in the top 40. You can't have any complaints with that, especially with Nieve riding like a tourist and coming in way down (hopefully saving energy).

I'm sorry, but if he struggles so much on a stage like today then he simply isn't a rider likely to win a grand tour. There simply aren't enough multi-climb stages, particularly in this Giro, to make back the time.

The losses in the TT's are bad enough but to have a chance of beating a rider like Nibali you can't give away even a second in these types of stages.

Yesterday's support was enough outcome-wise, but given the current forms, it is completely plausible that there might be other stages where Landa may be isolated with at least 3 Astanas around.
Now that will pose a real danger; especially if it happens in a climb following with a descent and flat (abundant in this Giro) and especially if more than 1 Astana will be in Contention for top spot (Fuglsang, Kangert, Nibali,Scarponi all close in GC).
Nieve got the last minute call into the line-up so it is understandable if he doesn't provide much help in the first half.