Mikel Landa Discussion Thread

[carton]

Q. What happened in the Izoard -in particular, not understanding what the leader wanted to demonstrate when he helped his rivals- does it make you lose a little faith in the innate goodness of human beings?

A. To tell the truth, a little bit, yes. I have always tried to do my best for my leaders and my colleagues. And sometimes you expect that in return, but ... not everyone thinks about it the same way nor are the situations the same. On the same day as the Izoard I could have lifted my foot off the gas when they caught me, I could have held the wheels and I would not have lost 12s ... but I went to the front and pulled, which was what Froome wanted, although he wasn't going so well either ... he was asking me to go slower, slower. That day I was very angry because I sacrificed myself without reaping a profit for the team. At no time was the Froome's Tour at risk, and to break me, to sacrifice my aspirations, without gaining anything... it hurts, yes, and it saddens me.

 

[bigcog]

Re:

Q. What happened in the Izoard -in particular, not understanding what the leader wanted to demonstrate when he helped his rivals- does it make you lose a little faith in the innate goodness of human beings?

A. To tell the truth, a little bit, yes. I have always tried to do my best for my leaders and my colleagues. And sometimes you expect that in return, but ... not everyone thinks about it the same way nor are the situations the same. On the same day as the Izoard I could have lifted my foot off the gas when they caught me, I could have held the wheels and I would not have lost 12s ... but I went to the front and pulled, which was what Froome wanted, although he wasn't going so well either ... he was asking me to go slower, slower. That day I was very angry because I sacrificed myself without reaping a profit for the team. At no time was the Froome's Tour at risk, and to break me, to sacrifice my aspirations, without gaining anything... it hurts, yes, and it saddens me.

Well he aint statying at Sky that's for sure :lol:

 

[Taxus4a]

Re: Re:

Never seen a guy fresher after doing the Giro-Tour double.

I think it is similar to the Tour Vuelta double, even you can be fresher becouse is early on the season. He is going to do Burgos and San Sebastian and I am sure he will be at a good level.
The level Contador showed to beat Aru on the Giro it wanst very different to the level he showed on the Tour, a month later. He was 5th, better than now, and considering ITT and mountains, similar to this year Aru (and I thnk this Tour Aru was stronger than that Giro 2015)
Not everybody can do that, double with similar level but some people yes. And I think Tour Vuelta is similar.

No, it's not similar at all, unless you're freak of nature like Valverde. For Le Tour everybody is fresh and in top form and the speed is exceptional, on flat stages particularly, which sometimes hurts the most. When someone has a full Giro in his legs, contesting for the GC there, it's pretty damn hard to achieve high placement in the Tour, as Contador and Quintana showed. Yet this same two riders had no problems to reach good and sometimes great level at La Vuelta after the Tour, which implies another thing, everybody is tired at Vuelta, nobody is fresh, and pure quality, strength, endurance and recovery comes to the fore. No one has an advantage of being fresh, or rarely has. And if that case occurs they play a big part in the race, often the biggest, like Valverde in 2009, Contador in 2012 and Horner in 2013.
As far as Contador's level at the Giro and the Tour, I would say that you basically don't know what you're talking about, no offence.

It is the same disadvantage than if you ride la Vuelta fresh as Horner did, or even prople coming from il Giro as Aru.

To beat that people after to ride le Tour has a big merit.

You ride il Giro and you have a month to rest, but if you do this you have to take it easy the rest of the year, you cant do as Quintana did started in January and wining Valencia, Tirreno,..

To ride Dauphine or Suisse, long races, is quite demanding and close to le Tour, so it is not like you have the Giro on your legs, b ut the rest of the world nothing.

Yes, I understand you point of view, and of course not everybdy can do that at high level, but it depends the contenders and situations.

What you need to do well Giro and Tour is to be fresh at il Giro.
Contador showed similar level on the Tour than il Giro. It is not the same to figh againts Aru and a Landa not free when he didnt TT well than to face SKY and people as Froome, Quintana Valverde and Nibali, the people who were better than him.

 

[Taxus4a]

It has been a big pleasure anyway to see how Landa is better in the mountains and in the ITT in le Tour after to ride il Giro at a high level, with hot weather, to the best level Aru has showed so far.

It is a pity the mafia of interest Vino- Martinelli- Giro -Contador didnt allow him to win that Giro.

 

[Red Rick]

So what's next for Landa. First a few weeks of rest I imagine. Any chances at a decent fall schedule, or will he get ditched because of his move to Movistar?

 

[Blanco]

Re: Re:

Never seen a guy fresher after doing the Giro-Tour double.

I think it is similar to the Tour Vuelta double, even you can be fresher becouse is early on the season. He is going to do Burgos and San Sebastian and I am sure he will be at a good level.
The level Contador showed to beat Aru on the Giro it wanst very different to the level he showed on the Tour, a month later. He was 5th, better than now, and considering ITT and mountains, similar to this year Aru (and I thnk this Tour Aru was stronger than that Giro 2015)
Not everybody can do that, double with similar level but some people yes. And I think Tour Vuelta is similar.

No, it's not similar at all, unless you're freak of nature like Valverde. For Le Tour everybody is fresh and in top form and the speed is exceptional, on flat stages particularly, which sometimes hurts the most. When someone has a full Giro in his legs, contesting for the GC there, it's pretty damn hard to achieve high placement in the Tour, as Contador and Quintana showed. Yet this same two riders had no problems to reach good and sometimes great level at La Vuelta after the Tour, which implies another thing, everybody is tired at Vuelta, nobody is fresh, and pure quality, strength, endurance and recovery comes to the fore. No one has an advantage of being fresh, or rarely has. And if that case occurs they play a big part in the race, often the biggest, like Valverde in 2009, Contador in 2012 and Horner in 2013.
As far as Contador's level at the Giro and the Tour, I would say that you basically don't know what you're talking about, no offence.

It is the same disadvantage than if you ride la Vuelta fresh as Horner did, or even prople coming from il Giro as Aru.

To beat that people after to ride le Tour has a big merit.

You ride il Giro and you have a month to rest, but if you do this you have to take it easy the rest of the year, you cant do as Quintana did started in January and wining Valencia, Tirreno,..

To ride Dauphine or Suisse, long races, is quite demanding and close to le Tour, so it is not like you have the Giro on your legs, b ut the rest of the world nothing.

Yes, I understand you point of view, and of course not everybdy can do that at high level, but it depends the contenders and situations.

What you need to do well Giro and Tour is to be fresh at il Giro.
Contador showed similar level on the Tour than il Giro. It is not the same to figh againts Aru and a Landa not free when he didnt TT well than to face SKY and people as Froome, Quintana Valverde and Nibali, the people who were better than him.

I have to disagree at that, as I said earlier. No rider in the current peloton (except Valverde, who showed that almost every time), was better in his 2nd consecutive GT. That was very hard Giro, with very strong Astana team, strongest Landa I've ever seen and definitely better Aru then ever in the Tour. Fresh Contador would've fight with Valverde for that 3rd spot, and I believe that he would end up on the podium of that Tour.

 

[liamito]

Re:

So what's next for Landa. First a few weeks of rest I imagine. Any chances at a decent fall schedule, or will he get ditched because of his move to Movistar?

He is not tired San Sebastian and Burgos are waiting for him.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

I can't say that I'm very sympathetic to his whining about not being allowed to fight for the Tour podium today. "It hurt", he says to do a job he agreed to do in return for a great deal of money. Did it hurt when he was cashing the cheques too?

 

[Red Rick]

Pretty sure he's not complaining about not getting paid enough.

 

[silvergrenade]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/landa-it-hurt-to-sacrifice-myself-with-no-reward-for-the-team/

Just read his interview here and Tbh, felt very very sad for him on a personal level.
I dunno why Froome asked him to set the pace on Izoard....
Moreover, why attack yourself when your teammate is gaining time up ahead? Beats me.

But I sympathise with Froome too. Not being the leader cost him not just a podium but 2 GT victories.

 

[Valv.Piti]

It really goes both ways. Landa knew when he signed with Sky he would lead the Giro and some other stage races, but that he would have to domestique for Froome in the Tour/Vuelta. He could just have signed with another team. I also do think Froome was in his right to attack, to chase the stage win and extra seconds in order to be even more sure in the time trial. You never know what can happen.

I think it was pretty questionable what Froome did to Foix, but not really here.I would honestly prefer Landa to stop complaning in the media all the time....

 

[Matteo.]

Re:

It really goes both ways. Landa knew when he signed with Sky he would lead the Giro and some other stage races, but that he would have to domestique for Froome in the Tour/Vuelta. He could just have signed with another team. I also do think Froome was in his right to attack, to chase the stage win and extra seconds in order to be even more sure in the time trial. You never know what can happen.

I think it was pretty questionable what Froome did to Foix, but not really here.I would honestly prefer Landa to stop complaning in the media all the time....

I agree with you, every word

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/landa-it-hurt-to-sacrifice-myself-with-no-reward-for-the-team/

Just read his interview here and Tbh, felt very very sad for him on a personal level.
I dunno why Froome asked him to set the pace on Izoard....
Moreover, why attack yourself when your teammate is gaining time up ahead? Beats me.

But I sympathise with Froome too. Not being the leader cost him not just a podium but 2 GT victories.

Yeah it sucks for both of them, yet it's no excuse to do it yourself I think.

The 2011 Vuelta was really a murky situation, cause before the Angliru and Pena Cabarga it was clear that Froome was good, but not that he was as great as he proved to be in the end. While it made no sense for Sky at the time to have him set the pace on the Manzaneda, it also wasn't too great of Froome to set the pace for a bit only to get dropped by a 15 man group that wasn't all that great.

For the 2012 Tour, Froome basically started 2 minutes behind, and by the time it was clear Nibali wasn't gonna be a threat, the ship for Froome had basically sailed. Any danger in that Tour was always gonna happen on La Toussuire.


And I agree about this Tour. Landa got *** over in a number of ways, and the Foix stage was definitely the biggest one. It was better for Sky too, but Sky showed there that Froome winning was more important than Sky winning.

 

[Poursuivant]

To be fair, he is just getting asked questions by a home based media. It was the same in the Tour: "we think you are the strongest now?" Daft questions looking for controversy.

 

[silvergrenade]

Re: Re:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/landa-it-hurt-to-sacrifice-myself-with-no-reward-for-the-team/

Just read his interview here and Tbh, felt very very sad for him on a personal level.
I dunno why Froome asked him to set the pace on Izoard....
Moreover, why attack yourself when your teammate is gaining time up ahead? Beats me.

But I sympathise with Froome too. Not being the leader cost him not just a podium but 2 GT victories.

Yeah it sucks for both of them, yet it's no excuse to do it yourself I think.

The 2011 Vuelta was really a murky situation, cause before the Angliru and Pena Cabarga it was clear that Froome was good, but not that he was as great as he proved to be in the end. While it made no sense for Sky at the time to have him set the pace on the Manzaneda, it also wasn't too great of Froome to set the pace for a bit only to get dropped by a 15 man group that wasn't all that great.

For the 2012 Tour, Froome basically started 2 minutes behind, and by the time it was clear Nibali wasn't gonna be a threat, the ship for Froome had basically sailed. Any danger in that Tour was always gonna happen on La Toussuire.


And I agree about this Tour. Landa got **** over in a number of ways, and the Foix stage was definitely the biggest one. It was better for Sky too, but Sky showed there that Froome winning was more important than Sky winning.

Sky does get 100% flak for this...
He should have been protected...He wasnt. My Opinion. Feel free to disagree.
Froome was screwed over even after all the tough talk during negotiations. :Neutral:

 

[staubsauger]

Froome is a cur IMHO. As simple as that. There was absolutely no need to close the gap to Landa, since Bardet was on his limit resting behind Gallopin. He factually cost his true blue super-domestique a well deserved podium spot just to prove a non existing point.

I can't stand Froome fake friendliness anymore. He's nothing but a nasty piece of work. Wiggins, Brailsford, Porte, now Landa. His illoyality strikes over and over again.

Look, it's fully legit in competitive cycling to attack each other. But it eventually tells everything about your character as well, when you work a whole day to defeat your so called best pal in favor of a random person like Jakob Fuglsang. Froome is a very sad person and non-class act. So rightfully he gets booed!

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/landa-it-hurt-to-sacrifice-myself-with-no-reward-for-the-team/

Just read his interview here and Tbh, felt very very sad for him on a personal level.
I dunno why Froome asked him to set the pace on Izoard....
Moreover, why attack yourself when your teammate is gaining time up ahead? Beats me.

But I sympathise with Froome too. Not being the leader cost him not just a podium but 2 GT victories.

Yeah it sucks for both of them, yet it's no excuse to do it yourself I think.

The 2011 Vuelta was really a murky situation, cause before the Angliru and Pena Cabarga it was clear that Froome was good, but not that he was as great as he proved to be in the end. While it made no sense for Sky at the time to have him set the pace on the Manzaneda, it also wasn't too great of Froome to set the pace for a bit only to get dropped by a 15 man group that wasn't all that great.

For the 2012 Tour, Froome basically started 2 minutes behind, and by the time it was clear Nibali wasn't gonna be a threat, the ship for Froome had basically sailed. Any danger in that Tour was always gonna happen on La Toussuire.


And I agree about this Tour. Landa got **** over in a number of ways, and the Foix stage was definitely the biggest one. It was better for Sky too, but Sky showed there that Froome winning was more important than Sky winning.

Sky does get 100% flak for this...
He should have been protected...He wasnt. My Opinion. Feel free to disagree.
Froome was screwed over even after all the tough talk during negotiations. :Neutral:

I don't remember how it happened, he got a flat in the last 2k and had to wait for a bike right? That shoudln't have happened.

They could've just sent Froome to babysit eveyry Nibali attack and them drop him if he can. Longe range Froome attacks should've been out of question though. Porte was more tahn good enough for Bradleysitting anyway.

 

[silvergrenade]

Re: Re:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/landa-it-hurt-to-sacrifice-myself-with-no-reward-for-the-team/

Just read his interview here and Tbh, felt very very sad for him on a personal level.
I dunno why Froome asked him to set the pace on Izoard....
Moreover, why attack yourself when your teammate is gaining time up ahead? Beats me.

But I sympathise with Froome too. Not being the leader cost him not just a podium but 2 GT victories.

Yeah it sucks for both of them, yet it's no excuse to do it yourself I think.

The 2011 Vuelta was really a murky situation, cause before the Angliru and Pena Cabarga it was clear that Froome was good, but not that he was as great as he proved to be in the end. While it made no sense for Sky at the time to have him set the pace on the Manzaneda, it also wasn't too great of Froome to set the pace for a bit only to get dropped by a 15 man group that wasn't all that great.

For the 2012 Tour, Froome basically started 2 minutes behind, and by the time it was clear Nibali wasn't gonna be a threat, the ship for Froome had basically sailed. Any danger in that Tour was always gonna happen on La Toussuire.


And I agree about this Tour. Landa got **** over in a number of ways, and the Foix stage was definitely the biggest one. It was better for Sky too, but Sky showed there that Froome winning was more important than Sky winning.

Sky does get 100% flak for this...
He should have been protected...He wasnt. My Opinion. Feel free to disagree.
Froome was screwed over even after all the tough talk during negotiations. :Neutral:

I don't remember how it happened, he got a flat in the last 2k and had to wait for a bike right? That shoudln't have happened.

They could've just sent Froome to babysit eveyry Nibali attack and them drop him if he can. Longe range Froome attacks should've been out of question though. Porte was more tahn good enough for Bradleysitting anyway.

Naah...
"After placing 11th in the prologue,he suffered a punctured tyre 9 mi (14.5 km) from the end of stage one and lost over a minute to overall leader Fabian Cancellara (RadioShack–Nissan)"
If he was protected he wouldve been brought back..
The honest truth is Ritchie stayed with him not because the Team asked him to but because of their relationship on a very personal level..

 

[glassmoon]

Truth is, he was given oportunities to be a GT leader at least 2 times iirc. He didn't deliver. Now was the time to just do his job he signed for. Unnecessary whining tbh.

 

[staubsauger]

He fell ill one time and was involved in a massive crash the other time. And in fact Landa pretty sure was always scheduled as hidden co-leader for the 2015 Giro. Since it wasn't sure in what kind of shape Aru would be able to tackle the race after his illness. That worked out quite well up to the point Landa surprisingly enough got an unexpected shot at the pink jersey and Astana wanted to save Aru's 2nd place for publicity reasons.

 

[Angliru]

Re:

Truth is, he was given oportunities to be a GT leader at least 2 times iirc. He didn't deliver. Now was the time to just do his job he signed for. Unnecessary whining tbh.

It's only whining if you cannot see the frustration of a competitor who came within 1 second, 1 SECOND, of being on the podium of the biggest event in his chosen profession. Stifled by his team from ever pursuing his
interests, which would've been the team's interest as well, benefiting the team immensely, I believe he was held back out of spite over his likely leaving the team and by Froome who has to exert his role as the alpha male on the team, striking the lowly domestique down when he had the gall to even appear to be upstaging his captain. Froome plays the friendly role but there have been too many incidences where he has exercised the influence of his position and the strength of his team to benefit himself even if it gave him an unfair advantage and compromised his rivals' efforts to challenge him. It is equally the fault of his rivals and their teams for allowing themselves to be bent over a counter with smiles on their faces, offering no resistance.

 

[Taxus4a]

Re:

So what's next for Landa. First a few weeks of rest I imagine. Any chances at a decent fall schedule, or will he get ditched because of his move to Movistar?

Rest? San Sebastian and Burgos.. maybe later rest.
Hope to talk with him in Burgos...a stage finish on my town, but not the best moment anyway...

 

[Taxus4a]

Re:

Truth is, he was given oportunities to be a GT leader at least 2 times iirc. He didn't deliver. Now was the time to just do his job he signed for. Unnecessary whining tbh.

Yes, eheb I asked Landa why he signed by SKY he told me to improve in ITT and to be leader on the Giro... He did both things..it was just bad luck dont get GC at the Giro...and his only mission at le Tour was to help, he get big money for that.
I know him and he doesnt mind the money, he just regert the situation to be at his best level and doesnt deliver his sometimes amazing performance..and becouse he knows people who followed him demand that from him.

He just regret why dont have a little bit more chances for himself, when it was clear Froome was the stronger on the ITT...but without that work Landa did ate the end Froome could go more quiet to the ITT...rivals where so close to him and without team that could have been a big problem...at the same time t was not easy to predict Landa getting so big time from Bardet, a similar kind of rider than him on the last ITT.

 

[silvergrenade]

Re: Re:

Truth is, he was given oportunities to be a GT leader at least 2 times iirc. He didn't deliver. Now was the time to just do his job he signed for. Unnecessary whining tbh.

It's only whining if you cannot see the frustration of a competitor who came within 1 second, 1 SECOND, of being on the podium of the biggest event in his chosen profession. Stifled by his team from ever pursuing his
interests, which would've been the team's interest as well, benefiting the team immensely, I believe he was held back out of spite over his likely leaving the team and by Froome who has to exert his role as the alpha male on the team, striking the lowly domestique down when he had the gall to even appear to be upstaging his captain. Froome plays the friendly role but there have been too many incidences where he has exercised the influence of his position and the strength of his team to benefit himself even if it gave him an unfair advantage and compromised his rivals' efforts to challenge him. It is equally the fault of his rivals and their teams for allowing themselves to be bent over a counter with smiles on their faces, offering no resistance.

Fwiw, to Froome, why should he not use his status and pull in the team? He's the overwhelming leader the entire Sky team rally around...Not because he's bossy but because he's earned their respect by doing what he done for the past many years..
Also, why should Sky Management give 2 *** about whether Landa gets 3rd,4th or 5th or 6th...He was leaving and he made it clear way back..
To put the entire blame on Sky and Froome is kid logic at best.

Did you go to the Froome thread and defend Froome like you are with Landa when Froome lost his opportunity to go for the victory?

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

Truth is, he was given oportunities to be a GT leader at least 2 times iirc. He didn't deliver. Now was the time to just do his job he signed for. Unnecessary whining tbh.

It's only whining if you cannot see the frustration of a competitor who came within 1 second, 1 SECOND, of being on the podium of the biggest event in his chosen profession. Stifled by his team from ever pursuing his
interests, which would've been the team's interest as well, benefiting the team immensely, I believe he was held back out of spite over his likely leaving the team and by Froome who has to exert his role as the alpha male on the team, striking the lowly domestique down when he had the gall to even appear to be upstaging his captain. Froome plays the friendly role but there have been too many incidences where he has exercised the influence of his position and the strength of his team to benefit himself even if it gave him an unfair advantage and compromised his rivals' efforts to challenge him. It is equally the fault of his rivals and their teams for allowing themselves to be bent over a counter with smiles on their faces, offering no resistance.

Fwiw, to Froome, why should he not use his status and pull in the team? He's the overwhelming leader the entire Sky team rally around...Not because he's bossy but because he's earned their respect by doing what he done for the past many years..
Also, why should Sky Management give 2 *** about whether Landa gets 3rd,4th or 5th or 6th...He was leaving and he made it clear way back..
To put the entire blame on Sky and Froome is kid logic at best.

Did you go to the Froome thread and defend Froome like you are with Landa when Froome lost his opportunity to go for the victory?

I thought I was on YOUR ignore list.

Edit: Punctuation.