Milano - Sanremo: March 20, 2021

[Leinster]

Sanchez did a turn on the front right before Martin attacked, but Valverde still looked at him first to chase.

Sanchez attacked on the descent, but sat up under the kite. Martin was sitting on the back of the group, so no reason to expect anyone to sit on his wheel. Keeping the pace relatively high at that point was still the best option for them.

Either way, I don’t think we can say that Bala is a specialist in bottling Lombardia. There’s no one year you can point to and say “he definitely screwed that up.”


On MVDP, How The Race Was Won is up, and Cosmo does a good job of pointing out how his team didn’t give him nearly the same protection that other favourites got. And that’s half the ball game at MSR, getting through the first 6 hours with minimum watts spent so you have them all left for the final 10km.

 

[roundabout]

Well, I still think he screwed up in 2014. Whether or not he was alone in that is a different matter.

 

[Leinster]

Well, I still think he screwed up in 2014. Whether or not he was alone in that is a different matter.

Fair. He was probably favourite in that sprint until Martin’s attack.

 

[Ripper]

Sanchez attacked on the descent, but sat up under the kite. Martin was sitting on the back of the group, so no reason to expect anyone to sit on his wheel. Keeping the pace relatively high at that point was still the best option for them.

Either way, I don’t think we can say that Bala is a specialist in bottling Lombardia. There’s no one year you can point to and say “he definitely screwed that up.”


On MVDP, How The Race Was Won is up, and Cosmo does a good job of pointing out how his team didn’t give him nearly the same protection that other favourites got. And that’s half the ball game at MSR, getting through the first 6 hours with minimum watts spent so you have them all left for the final 10km.

Lack of team, some questionable peloton surfing, etc. He is definitely better in situations where he can basically do intervals ... hard, recover, repeat. Also, has comparably fantastic acceleration but less so flat out speed.

 

[Brumdog66]

Why is it we use bottle as a verb in this forum? What does it mean?

Very english term meaning either to back out of something through cowardice or to lose something you should win through a blunder

 

[jaylew]

Good to know. I guess that goes along with whinge as a term I learned here that you never hear in the US.

 

[BlueRoads]

Good to know. I guess that goes along with whinge as a term I learned here that you never hear in the US.

Didn't know that, I thought there was some joke in the question that I didn't get.
Good to know I'm learning something about languages here. So I can tell myself it's time worth spent.

 

[Max Rockatansky]

Kelly couldn't have got any closer ; three seconds in the Tour of Flanders. Eddy Merckx won all five. Not sure if anyone else has done it. Hinault only won three of them. Hard to believe that Valverde has only won one monument but he has won Liege four times. Moser, Argentin and Saronni won three of the five.

Just look at Kellys program in 1985... it's crazy. From Criterium International on the 23rd of march he did De Panne, Harelbeke, Pais Vasco, Flanders, GW, Roubaix, FW and Liege. And two days after LBL he was at the start of La Vuelta.

But still one of the most memorable things in modern cycling, Kelly did a year prior: That year he was second in Sanremo. On march 24th and 25th he won Critérium International and all three stages. It was in Antibes back then. He then travelled to Belgium and started De Panne with one stage podium.

Then it gets really crazy. He then got second again in Flanders, only to fly to Spain the same day after a 270k monument and start Pais Vasco the next day and to WIN the first stage. Win another two stages, one being a time trial and the overall. Then travel back to Compiègne, start Roubaix two days after winning Pais Vasco and yes...winning that as well. And no we are not done here.

Back in the day there was no Schelde whatsoever or Brabantse Pijl leg stretching. Four days after Roubaix there was a full 250k Flèche Wallonne with the debut of the Mur du Huy. He got the 12th place or he used it to get Roubaix out of his body. Because on Sunday the guy went on to win LBL.

Only Eddy Merckx was able to win three monuments in one season. He did this four times. Sanremo, Flanders and LBL in 1969 and 1975. Sanremo, LBL and GDL in 1971 and 1972.

The double that is most likely to be achieved is of course RVV and PR. It was done twelve times with Cancellara and Boonen being the two riders, who did it twice.
Then it gets difficult when your name isn't cannibal. John Degenkolb was the only rider over a period from 1987 to 2015, who scored another double. He did this in 2015 by winning Sanremo and PR. Only Kelly and Cyrille van Hauwaert in 1908 did the same. Which is really interesting.
The second most common double is the italian one, which was - when we leave out Eddy - done by the italian cycling legends Giradengo, Binda, Mara, Bartali and Coppi. And it was last done in 1949. Actually in 2018 Vincenzo Nibali came really close. Only Thibaut Pinot stood between him and entering this hall of fame of italian cycling.

What also stands out to me, is that the most doable double beside the northern one, seems to be LBL and GDL. Only Merckx and Moreno Argentin went for it. Normally and specially in our day, there sould be a lot of potential candidates for that. Loulou, Roglic, Hirschi...

 

[Bonimenier]

If Paris-Roubaix wasn't cancelled last year, it would have been likely that either van Aert or van der Poel would have scored a double.

 

[ciranda]

He then got second again in Flanders, only to fly to Spain the same day after a 270k monument and start Pais Vasco the next day and to WIN the first stage.

Rolf Sørensen did that too one year; race and finish Flanders, fly to Pais Vasco, win the first stage. He has told a story about Sean Kelly a couple of times in race transmissions about the first time he raced Tour of Flanders. Kelly came over to talk to him before the start to see who this guy who had won Tirreno Adriatico was and asked if Rolf had ever raced in Belgium before. Rolf said no and Kelly said 'Then you're gonna be tired.'

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Very english term meaning either to back out of something through cowardice or to lose something you should win through a blunder

Origin uncertain.
Could be related to the idea of courage being found in drink, so in these cases one's courage stayed in the bottle.
Could be related to the rhyming slang 'bottle and glass'='arse', and one has had an unfortunate toilet-related nervous reaction to being in a winning position.

 

[Koronin]

Kelly couldn't have got any closer ; three seconds in the Tour of Flanders. Eddy Merckx won all five. Not sure if anyone else has done it. Hinault only won three of them. Hard to believe that Valverde has only won one monument but he has won Liege four times. Moser, Argentin and Saronni won three of the five.

Lombardia is the only other monument that Valverde has a podium at. He has top 10's at MSR, but no top 5's. Has raced Flanders a grand total of once (and did get a top 10) and not only hasn't raced Paris-Roubiax but said the only way he'd even consider racing it is in the masters division because he prefers not to enter races in which getting injured is a more likely outcome than getting anywhere near a victory. Also remember he spent a portion of his career avoiding racing in Italy.

 

[Leinster]

Lombardia is the only other monument that Valverde has a podium at. He has top 10's at MSR, but no top 5's. Has raced Flanders a grand total of once (and did get a top 10) and not only hasn't raced Paris-Roubiax but said the only way he'd even consider racing it is in the masters division because he prefers not to enter races in which getting injured is a more likely outcome than getting anywhere near a victory. Also remember he spent a portion of his career avoiding racing in Italy.

A lot of that is not unusual; no Spaniard has ever won Flanders or Roubaix, the likes of Indurain never rode the cobbles. Flecha and Freire both had to work hard to persuade their teams to let them ride there.

 

[movingtarget]

I wonder whether Roglic will add any monuments to his LBL. Lombardia, maybe? Pogacar too wasn't too far back in Roglic's LBL if I remember correctly... Evenepoel still has to race a monument, right?

No reason Roglic couldn't win Lombardia. Hard to say what Evenepoel can achieve yet. Give it another few seasons but the raw ability and talent is there.

 

[Bonimenier]

I wonder whether Roglic will add any monuments to his LBL. Lombardia, maybe? Pogacar too wasn't too far back in Roglic's LBL if I remember correctly... Evenepoel still has to race a monument, right?

He partly rode Lombardia last year. Based on his race till the crash I think it's fair to say that he can and probably will win there at some point.

 

[Netserk]

No idea. Maybe it's Dutch English.

Then it would mean the opposite, as per flasken. In Danish, if things flaskede sig, it’d be no fiasco.

 

[Red Rick]

Why is it we use bottle as a verb in this forum? What does it mean?

It's basically to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. It's a common term in football

 

[tobydawq]

It's basically to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. It's a common term in football

Okay, I always thought it had something to do with Leipheimer whom I recall old posters often have referred to as "bottle". When did he ever do that? Or am I just misremembering?

 

[RedheadDane]

It's basically to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. It's a common term in football

So, having victories "in the bag" is a good thing, but "bottling them" is bad? Gotcha!

 

[wheresmybrakes]

Lombardia is the only other monument that Valverde has a podium at. He has top 10's at MSR, but no top 5's. Has raced Flanders a grand total of once (and did get a top 10) and not only hasn't raced Paris-Roubiax but said the only way he'd even consider racing it is in the masters division because he prefers not to enter races in which getting injured is a more likely outcome than getting anywhere near a victory. Also remember he spent a portion of his career avoiding racing in Italy.

I'm starting to think that Valverde is only gonna be remembered for the amount of top 10's he's had in his career and not the actual wins.

 

[wansteadimp]

It's basically to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. It's a common term in football

Yep, originally "to have Bottle" was the courage/ability to achieve something under pressure. Presumably "to Bottle it" is a contraction of "to have lost his bottle" ie not have the confidence to do something anymore.

 

[Blanco]

If Paris-Roubaix wasn't cancelled last year, it would have been likely that either van Aert or van der Poel would have scored a double.

Before this MSR I heard that either WVA, VDP or Ala would win, but we got Stuyven. So you never know, especially in a race like Roubaix.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Also possibly related to the dual meaning of the Italian fiasco, meaning both flask and, erm, fiasco.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Before this MSR I heard that either WVA, VDP or Ala would win, but we got Stuyven. So you never know, especially in a race like Roubaix.

wouldnt compare MSR to roubaix.

Boonen and Cancellara won 7x roubaix bewteen them.
They (cancellara only) won 1 MSR.

Different ballgame. Big favorites far more likely to win PR or RVV then msr

 

[Anderis]

wouldnt compare MSR to roubaix.

Boonen and Cancellara won 7x roubaix bewteen them.
They (cancellara only) won 1 MSR.

Different ballgame. Big favorites far more likely to win PR or RVV then msr

Maybe they won Roubaix more times than MSR because their skillset was more suited toward Roubaix than MSR.

And Roubaix has "out of nowhere" winners just as often as MSR. Out of last 9 editions, I would say only 4 were won by big favourites.