MLB's Alex Rodriguez suspended 1 year for steroids use...

[MarkvW]

I would not expect baseball to have the same level of doping sophistication that cycling has. Doping has a very different effect in baseball. It is indirect. In cycling someone can say if I increase my power by x Watts then I can take y seconds off this climb or knock z seconds off that time trial. It is a situation where people can experiment with products, measure the results, then adjust the product mix. That situation does not exist in baseball. Strength can be measured but that does not translate directly to baseball results. Baseball players will be concerned not just with strength but an amorphous sense of well being and energy level. This will lead to a loosey-goosey,/fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants,/if-it-feels-good-then-it's-working type of doping, which will lead to those who are little more than suppliers or quacks using bro-science to decide what doping to use. They probably should have done their best to measure strength, sprint times, and aerobic capacity. But I can easily see players thinking of doping like, "I am bench pressing more than ever, I feel good, and I am getting great results on the field. It must be working." There is less use for a Dr. Ferrari-like character, especially since testing in baseball is almost non-existent.

Still, you'd think that with much more money on the table baseball players would dope more scientifically. There is no doubt that trained power (Sosa, McGwire, Bonds, Rodriguez) can bring in money that only one cyclist (Armstrong) has ever approached. And it also (Clemens) can help pitching in a massive way.

In baseball, I don't get the sense of 'teams' going over to the dark side. The owners know that they want to keep their distance from a baseball scandal because they don't want to kill the goose that laid the golden egg. In cycling, you have multiple examples of whole teams engaging in an organized doping program. That grossly impairs the marketing of the sport. Seems to me that in baseball, the teams themselves are more interested in the marketing and profitability of the sport as a whole, while in cycling the teams are a lot more isolated (and kept away from sharing in the profits).

I definitely agree that baseball is as filthy, or filthier, than cycling, but I wonder why you see team-doping in cycling, but not in baseball.

 

[hfer07]

One big difference is that Baseball has a collectively bargained-for anti-doping process and a Union that fights for its members.

Where is the "Union" fighting on behalf of A-Rod? Where was the "Union" fighting for Bonds, McGwire, Clemens, Sossa & all the Dirty ones?

Last time I remember they were on their own facing the allegations & the consequences- even MLB stepped aside when the scandal blew wide open & the Feds got them subpoenaed to testify at a congressional hearing.

As far as "anti-doping"? are you kidding? haven't you heard of what Bosch & Conte have said all along on how "stupid" a baseball player must be to ever get caught, since the entire "anti-doping" system is a complete "joke"?

 

[blackcat]

I definitely agree that baseball is as filthy, or filthier, than cycling, but I wonder why you see team-doping in cycling, but not in baseball.

simple.

its the economy stupid.

<see: plausible deniability>

a question: is a program where players off campus share sources, doctors, techniques, expertise, developments, experimental pharmaceuticals, products, and hardware a defacto program?

 

[MarkvW]

Where is the "Union" fighting on behalf of A-Rod? Where was the "Union" fighting for Bonds, McGwire, Clemens, Sossa & all the Dirty ones?

Last time I remember they were on their own facing the allegations & the consequences- even MLB stepped aside when the scandal blew wide open & the Feds got them subpoenaed to testify at a congressional hearing.

As far as "anti-doping"? are you kidding? haven't you heard of what Bosch & Conte have said all along on how "stupid" a baseball player must be to ever get caught, since the entire "anti-doping" system is a complete "joke"?

If Baseball's antidoping system is a complete joke (and I agree that it is), then why aren't baseball teams, as units, organizing doping programs to benefit the team?

 

[Race Radio]

Where is the "Union" fighting on behalf of A-Rod?

http://mlb.si.com/2014/01/11/mlb-statement-on-alex-rodriguezs-162-game-suspension/

The MLBPA strongly disagrees with the award issued today in the grievance of Alex Rodriguez

Going to be fun watching A-Roid burn millions taking this to Federal court. Maybe his paid liars can use Armstrong's first filing as a template?

Comedy gold
http://www.scribd.com/doc/100604471/Armstrong-Motion-to-Dismiss

 

[hfer07]

http://mlb.si.com/2014/01/11/mlb-statement-on-alex-rodriguezs-162-game-suspension/



Going to be fun watching A-Roid burn millions taking this to Federal court. Maybe his paid liars can use Armstrong's first filing as a template?

Comedy gold
http://www.scribd.com/doc/100604471/Armstrong-Motion-to-Dismiss

Agreed.
As far as the "MLBPA statement" is just empty words-they can disagree as much as they like to-A-Rod is on his own.

 

[Race Radio]

Agreed.
As far as the "MLBPA statement" is just empty words-they can disagree as much as they like to-A-Rod is on his own.

They have been supporting A-Roid and his nonsense since this started. Now they are exploring suing MLB for appearing on 60 Minutes

http://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2014/1/13/5303632/a-rod-suspension-60-minutes-mlbpa

They add more nonsense into the discussion, supporting their guy

 

[BroDeal]

If Baseball's antidoping system is a complete joke (and I agree that it is), then why aren't baseball teams, as units, organizing doping programs to benefit the team?

Draconian anti-drug laws. Conspiracy laws do not help either. It is safer for billionaire team owners and coaches on a few million a year to look the other way while the payers take care of themselves.

 

[Oldman]

MLB enjoys a Congress controlled monopoly. If you had that basic guarantee on profits would you jeopardize it with some moron who can't even inject himself without fainting?

 

[DirtyWorks]

I'm not very interested in baseball, but there was a two-parter by a widely watched American broadcaster's Sunday night news show called "60 Minutes."

Apparently they end an interview with A-Rod'd prepatore (Bosch??) describes doping athletes in great specificity, the Baseball federation MLB paying a stranger six-figures IN CASH for doping documents of uncertain provenance, and forcing the prepatore to tell all.

They close the two-part corruption-festival by saying the federation's leader is retiring and "Part of his legacy is the establishment of the toughest anti-doping rules in all of American pro sports."

Yet 60 Minutes just spent two weeks describing in great specificity exactly the opposite. That should tell you the power that a sport with a national audience and protected status has over media.

Nicely sumarized here:http://joeposnanski.com/joeblogs/the-60-minutes-report/

 

[Catwhoorg]

Toughest Anti-doping regime in US pro sports, is like looking for the cleanest member of US Postal.

Very low bar to cross.

 

[Race Radio]

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/i...eguest-seal-horowitz-ruling-article-1.1578058

This is great, A-Roid will sue both MLB and the Players Union

He is on an island

 

[Briant_Gumble]

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/i...eguest-seal-horowitz-ruling-article-1.1578058

This is great, A-Roid will sue both MLB and the Players Union

He is on an island

Wow someone is hell bent on getting the title of the most hated man in baseball.

 

[Merckx index]

Though the ARod case makes a great sideshow, the real issue involving PEDs in baseball involves the Hall of Fame. The latest class elected, consisting of just three players, was announced a few days ago. Some of the greatest players in history, like Bonds and Clemens, are on the ballot, but can't get enough votes because of PED use. Some voters will not vote for anyone linked to PEDS--one voter even refused to vote for anyone who played in the nineties, even if there was no evidence against him--while others think it should be one factor, but not necessarily the overwhelming one.

One voter,as a protest, gave his vote to the readers of Deadspin, who chose Bonds and Clemens, among others. As a result, he has been permanently banned from voting. Even though it subsequently came out that the vice-president of the writers' association that votes has been crowd-sourcing his ballot for years.

Another HOF issue emerged a few weeks ago, when three former managers were also elected, overwhelmingly. All three of the managers guided teams with known PED users, e.g., Joe Torre managed the Yankees when ARod was there, and Tony LaRussa the A's and Cardinals with Jose Canseco and Mark McGwire. The argument is that it's hypocritical to allow these three in the HOF but not their players when they had to know what was going on.

 

[hfer07]

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/i...eguest-seal-horowitz-ruling-article-1.1578058

This is great, A-Roid will sue both MLB and the Players Union

He is on an island

LOL - A-Rod is literally an LA carbon copy. Well- go ahead and sue the entire World if you like-at least while the bank account permits it

 

[The Hitch]

Toughest Anti-doping regime in US pro sports, is like looking for the cleanest member of US Postal.

Very low bar to cross.

From where I'm standing US-Baseball has one of the toughest anti-doping regimes in the world. Unmatched for a sport its size

Here in Europe the big sports are about 2 or 3 centuries behind. Guardiola cheated just like A Rod, but if there were a hall of fame he would be voted in unanimously in more than 1 category.

 

[King Boonen]

Let's remember, any sport that doesn't care about the Olympics couldn't give a f*** about the WADA code unless its fans start leaving. As far as I'm aware baseball fans could care less about doping. They want to see balls in the stands and pitchers going at +100 mph.

 

[Pazuzu]

If I'm not mistaken, A-Rod still has a few years left on his very expensive contract. Obviously, the Yankees won't have to pay him next year while he serves his suspension. But after that? Do they have any avenues to void their contract with him?

 

[martinvickers]

If I'm not mistaken, A-Rod still has a few years left on his very expensive contract. Obviously, the Yankees won't have to pay him next year while he serves his suspension. But after that? Do they have any avenues to void their contract with him?

Worse than that - they DO have to pay him, albeit a small fraction. But I have little sympathy after they played him within hours of the original ban.

It would be interesting if they could fire him for cause, based on the second doping offence, but I've nothing like the knowledge of American contract law needed to tell you.

 

[martinvickers]

Let's remember, any sport that doesn't care about the Olympics couldn't give a f*** about the WADA code unless its fans start leaving. As far as I'm aware baseball fans could care less about doping. They want to see balls in the stands and pitchers going at +100 mph.

Baseball strikes me as one of those odd sports. A large lump of its casual fan base seem to not care too much about the competition at all, just the spectacle. Bt like WWE. The season of mcguire/sosa, it actually seemed like the HR chase was MORE important than the actual, you know, league.

As one of the rare lesser-spotted Irish cricket fans, baseball is just pumped up rounders to me - leaves me cold. Following cycling is enough drug addled sports, thanks all the same. I'll stick to my nice corrupt match fixed cricket!

 

[martinvickers]

From where I'm standing US-Baseball has one of the toughest anti-doping regimes in the world. Unmatched for a sport its size

Here in Europe the big sports are about 2 or 3 centuries behind. Guardiola cheated just like A Rod, but if there were a hall of fame he would be voted in unanimously in more than 1 category.

The MLB regime's actually getting a lot better. It's the penalties that suck. One year for a Second offence, with evidence of witness tampering and threats?

Meanwhile in NFL land, nobody gives a single ****, sadly.

 

[the delgados]

They have been supporting A-Roid and his nonsense since this started. Now they are exploring suing MLB for appearing on 60 Minutes

http://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2014/1/13/5303632/a-rod-suspension-60-minutes-mlbpa

They add more nonsense into the discussion, supporting their guy

The union has a legal obligation to support a dues-paying member. It doesn't mean they want to.

 

[the delgados]

Let's remember, any sport that doesn't care about the Olympics couldn't give a f*** about the WADA code unless its fans start leaving. As far as I'm aware baseball fans could care less about doping. They want to see balls in the stands and pitchers going at +100 mph.

You are absolutely correct. As mentioned earlier in this thread, a hall of fame voter recently sold his vote to Deadspin, who in turn invited readers to cast a Hall of Fame ballot. The overwhelming majority put both Bonds and Clemens in the Hall.
Fans do not care about doping.

 

[MarkvW]

The union has a legal obligation to support a dues-paying member. It doesn't mean they want to.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/14/sports/baseball/a-case-of-amateurish-cloak-and-dagger.html?ref=sports&_r=0

 

[Alpe73]

Let's remember, any sport that doesn't care about the Olympics couldn't give a f*** about the WADA code unless its fans start leaving. As far as I'm aware baseball fans could care less about doping. They want to see balls in the stands and pitchers going at +100 mph.

Yes, this is a (fundamental) premise to be remembered in the discussion about doping in most $$$Professional sports. Are the majority of hard core cycling fans, worldwide, much different?