Yes, me too. But the above discussion is whether we can be pro and against the protesters.Who are my political opponents now? I just want to watch a cycling race.
Yes, me too. But the above discussion is whether we can be pro and against the protesters.Who are my political opponents now? I just want to watch a cycling race.
Yes, me too. But the above discussion is whether we can be pro and against the protesters.
The content of posts lambasting protesters matters.I'm afraid I'm not communicating my point properly here. I'm not saying political posts should stand, I'm saying less obviously political posts such as those lambasting the protestors are nevertheless also political and should also be removed
I've already laid out the principles I'm using here. If you don't agree, feel free to email community@futurenet.comYou can't divorce a protest from its cause and the reasons behind it. Attempting to make a strong argument against all protests which are disruptive of cycling races through a thought-experiment imagining the dumbest and most meaningless cause is quite frankly baffling. Clearly if you want to argue against any and all such protests you would need to find the most righteous and sensible cause you can imagine.
You can't divorce a protest from its cause and the reasons behind it.
Clearly if you want to argue against any and all such protests you would need to find the most righteous and sensible cause you can imagine.
Either you can very easily divorce it or I'm supposed to take a more negative opinion on on said cause simply because those protesters are interfering with my leisure time.You can't divorce a protest from its cause and the reasons behind it. Attempting to make a strong argument against all protests which are disruptive of cycling races through a thought-experiment imagining the dumbest and most meaningless cause is quite frankly baffling. Clearly if you want to argue against any and all such protests you would need to find the most righteous and sensible cause you can imagine.
You're forcing yourself to take a negative view because the protestors are "interfering with your leisure time." No one is telling you to think otherwise.Either you can very easily divorce it or I'm supposed to take a more negative opinion on on said cause simply because those protesters are interfering with my leisure time.
So I choose to see the method as divorced from the reason behind it.
I just think a stupid behavior is a stupid behavior, no matter what cause it's attached to. I could perhaps frame it better but I don't force myself to do anything.You're forcing yourself to take a negative view because the protestors are "interfering with your leisure time." No one is telling you to think otherwise.
Sure you can within the framework of discussing cycling. I gave one simplistic example above. There are many other ways to do it. If you can't, maybe you're trying to talk politics, not cycling?You can't divorce a protest from its cause and the reasons behind it. Attempting to make a strong argument against all protests which are disruptive of cycling races through a thought-experiment imagining the dumbest and most meaningless cause is quite frankly baffling. Clearly if you want to argue against any and all such protests you would need to find the most righteous and sensible cause you can imagine.
...aaaaand...there it is.Speaking about bringing out torches, pitchforks and sledgehammers: That's exactly why the protestors interrupted the event, but it has nothing to do with a bike race.
Well, I did read through numerous posts of your own to get a sense of what and wasn't acceptable before deciding to join this discussion.. Not clear to me where I went wrong. Nevertheless I don't want to make your life more difficult. Apologies.15 posts deleted: this has gone a long way from discussion of moderation here, and too far into politics.
Excactly...What's righteous and sensible for one person might not be for another. But I guess that's rather political discussion.
I certainly think more mods are needed. Having recently been spending way too much time here thanks to moving into a frankylly mind-numbing, boring job, I had considered it. But recent events have made me realize I wouldn't be able to keep my own biases at bay, which makes me unsuitable. I don't know how we get more people involved.Today was perhaps the most obvious intersection between cycling and politics that has happened in the history of the forum, and also the worst day in a long time in terms of moderator action. Given the current [gestures at a whole range of political and societal developments that I really don't want to dive into], it is very possible we see more of the same intersections in the future, perhaps even the near future. In that light, I think we need to ask ourselves the question: how do we, as a community, go from here?
On the one hand, there were a lot of posts being made that were extremely obviously political, many of them not even making an attempt to tie themselves in with cycling. Look, I have some pretty strongly held opinions and sympathies on the matter too, but discussing politics on its own merits is very simply not what a cycling forum should be about, and I don't think it makes this forum a better place either. It certainly doesn't make it a better place for our moderators.
On the other hand... having followed the stage thread from the moment things were neutralised to when it was locked in realtime for most of that period, I got the impression (happy to be corrected on this if I'm wrong) that at some point, the moderation standard descended from 'delete all overly political posts and hand out bans for the worst offenders' to 'delete all overly political posts and hand out bans for everyone who had their post deleted'. As a result, there have been, what, 10 or so bans incurred in the span of one or two hours? I completely understand getting frustrated when having to spend basically the entirety of that time doing moderation duties, but at the same time I'm also worried about how draconian the crackdown seemed to be by the time the thread got temporarily locked. While I'm not going to argue that none of them are unjustly banned, it pains me to see so many regulars on the ban list.
So basically what I'm getting at here is: how do we collectively avoid another situation where probably upwards of 50 posts get deleted, about 10 people get banned, and the stage thread of all things has to be locked? Because I think most of us will agree that we don't want things to get that out of hand on here...
Honestly, if they banned like 10-15 of us I wouldn't hold it against them
Hard to stop things from descending into madness if you don't hand out bans and draw a line somewhere. Assume most would be temporary bans anyway.Today was perhaps the most obvious intersection between cycling and politics that has happened in the history of the forum, and also the worst day in a long time in terms of moderator action. Given the current [gestures at a whole range of political and societal developments that I really don't want to dive into], it is very possible we see more of the same intersections in the future, perhaps even the near future. In that light, I think we need to ask ourselves the question: how do we, as a community, go from here?
On the one hand, there were a lot of posts being made that were extremely obviously political, many of them not even making an attempt to tie themselves in with cycling. Look, I have some pretty strongly held opinions and sympathies on the matter too, but discussing politics on its own merits is very simply not what a cycling forum should be about, and I don't think it makes this forum a better place either. It certainly doesn't make it a better place for our moderators.
On the other hand... having followed the stage thread from the moment things were neutralised to when it was locked in realtime for most of that period, I got the impression (happy to be corrected on this if I'm wrong) that at some point, the moderation standard descended from 'delete all overly political posts and hand out bans for the worst offenders' to 'delete all overly political posts and hand out bans for everyone who had their post deleted'. As a result, there have been, what, 10 or so bans incurred in the span of one or two hours? I completely understand getting frustrated when having to spend basically the entirety of that time doing moderation duties, but at the same time I'm also worried about how draconian the crackdown seemed to be by the time the thread got temporarily locked. While I'm not going to argue that none of them are unjustly banned, it pains me to see so many regulars on the ban list.
So basically what I'm getting at here is: how do we collectively avoid another situation where probably upwards of 50 posts get deleted, about 10 people get banned, and the stage thread of all things has to be locked? Because I think most of us will agree that we don't want things to get that out of hand on here...
Of those who had posts deleted that I got to see before that, I've only seen the former. And plenty of deleted posts without bans.On the other hand... having followed the stage thread from the moment things were neutralised to when it was locked in realtime for most of that period, I got the impression (happy to be corrected on this if I'm wrong) that at some point, the moderation standard descended from 'delete all overly political posts and hand out bans for the worst offenders' to 'delete all overly political posts and hand out bans for everyone who had their post deleted'.
Seeing some of the deleted posts without the posters receiving a ban makes me not doubt the few bans that were dished out were deserved.Of those who had posts deleted that I got to see before that, I've only seen the former. And plenty of deleted posts without bans.
Yes, this is also part of the problem. And somehow, I doubt that the events of today have made the job more attractive.I certainly think more mods are needed. Having recently been spending way too much time here thanks to moving into a frankylly mind-numbing, boring job, I had considered it. But recent events have made me realize I wouldn't be able to keep my own biases at bay, which makes me unsuitable. I don't know how we get more people involved.
And some people would argue that the degree to which people can't seem to separate more important from less important ends to be the most toxic part of it all. I don't think that that's the discussion we need to be having.Personally I find the degree to which people can't seem to seperate the means from the end to be the most toxic part of it all.