Moderation

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And some people would argue that the degree to which people can't seem to separate more important from less important ends to be the most toxic part of it all. I don't think that that's the discussion we need to be having.
To me the lack of seperation between the two goes hand in hand with turning it into a rather strong in-group vs out-group reasoning where people start labeling you all sorts of things for disagreeing on a certain thing. And once the latter happens, I don't think there's any debate to be had on anything because any trust on which to base a discussion on is gone, after which it simply turns into a mudslinging feset.

It's basically a slope so slippery it's impossible to moderate, and therefor I very well understand if mods get trigger happy, because that's basically exactly how I moderated when race threads turned into real time Clinical crapshoots.
 
OK. I'm back from what I needed to do. I will unlock the thread when I have finished responding here, and checked the outstanding reports, and reviewed the thread to see what I might have missed, and checked whether there is overspill into other threads. And I might even have some dinner at some point.

And when it's open, it will be a good place to discuss whether the organisers handled the situation well, implications of Pidcock's show of strength and Almeida's inability to follow him, and similar cycling related issues.

I will address some of the posts here individually.
First, I would draw attention to the post I put up while the riders were still in the neutralised zone.
MOD hat on:
It seems very possible that there will be disruption today from protests. Observations on the fact are reasonable: some frustration about it is understandable.

But if you want to give any opinion about the rights and wrongs of the protests, this is not the place. Do your venting on Twitter or elsewhere. This is a politics free zone.
In retrospect, I regret that I did not repost that as soon as the cancellation was announced, and that I continued trying to catch up from the earliest posted problematic posts rather than jumping to the end of the thread and giving a strong rule reminder. That's my main take-away.

As far as I could maintain a pattern to my actions while desperately fire-fighting, I issued the standard sanction for political comment where people cannot but have known that their comments were political in nature, and cannot reasonably have expected others to interpret them otherwise. I invite @Cookster15 (who operates on Aussie time, but has strange hours within that, so I'm never very sure of when we will be on here together) to review those and unban any that he thinks I might have got wrong, and we can discuss such cases between us. Neither of us normally apply a sanction other than deletion without running it past the other: this afternoon I felt it necessary to act unilaterally to avoid delays.


I also deleted a large number of posts that were responses to that, or which sought to enter into discussions such as the definition of terrorism. That might be an interesting topic of conversation: it is not what a cycling forum is for. Some posts were deleted because they were orphaned responses to deleted posts, or responses to responses to ... etc: that has long been my usual way of dealing with such situations.

It was very disappointing that even when people must have noticed the amount of deletions and the "banned" label appearing next to names, they continued in the same vein and some who had stayed within expectations then went beyond them.

I repeat, in retrospect I would have handled the order I did things in differently, and had I done so maybe more people would have seen warnings not to do what they ought to know not to do anyway. As to the substance of what I did: I accept there may be minor gripes, but I believe I was acting in the interests of maintaining the standards set by those who make the forum available to us, and I will consider any responses to my actions that an aggrieved party may wish to raise in a PM (remember please, public discussion of individual acts of moderation are not allowed). But I am confident that I acted without bias in the issues that underpinned the protests (I have opinions probably as strong as most of you on the matter: I hope that none of you see evidence of what my opinion is from anything I have posted) and the best consistency I could apply in such a rearguard action.
 
Today was ... the worst day in a long time in terms of moderator action.
You won't be surprised to hear that I do not agree. I believe I acted entirely within the principles laid down by those who provide the forum.

On the one hand, there were a lot of posts being made that were extremely obviously political, many of them not even making an attempt to tie themselves in with cycling. Look, I have some pretty strongly held opinions and sympathies on the matter too, but discussing politics on its own merits is very simply not what a cycling forum should be about,
As I have said so often when the subject comes up.

While I'm not going to argue that none of them are unjustly banned, it pains me to see so many regulars on the ban list.
I don't believe that any of the bans will be for more than 24 hours, although that may not be the case if people have had previous "issues". I shall check, and reduce any that are longer.

So basically what I'm getting at here is: how do we collectively avoid another situation where probably upwards of 50 posts get deleted, about 10 people get banned, and the stage thread of all things has to be locked? Because I think most of us will agree that we don't want things to get that out of hand on here...
I think I have learned, as in my post above, to get ahead with strong warnings rather than to chase from behind; otherwise, the matter is in everyone else's hands. There were many people who commented this afternoon without so much as a post being edited. To quote a post in this thread that the poster deleted (so anonymous) that was a direct response to that "Just assume no one wants to hear your opinion about politics on any level whatsoever, at any point. (Not yours in particular, but everyone’s in general.) I think that’s fair and easy to hold that assumption for everyone going forward."
 
You won't be surprised to hear that I do not agree. I believe I acted entirely within the principles laid down by those who provide the forum.
I meant in terms of how much moderator action was carried out. And also in terms of how much moderator action had to be carried out, for that matter.

So no, I'm not surprised to hear that you don't agree, because I myself don't agree with the point you thought I was trying to make (and I really should have worded that better).
 
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I wish it was possible to have a separate thread about it. Not the conflict, but about protests and cycling.
Such a thread would be one I would want to keep an eye on, but a place to vent about frustration of races being disrupted/rerouted, how well organisers deal with it and on less fraught days to comment about negligent dog-owners and cardboard sign wavers is one that you are welcome to open. My first post would be a strong reminder that the discussion is of , as @Red Rick puts it above, the means and not the ends.
 
While not discussing the cause for the sanctions, IIRC it was also not permitted to discuss the rights and wrongs of IOC banning Russia and Belarus? Is that right?

If so, is any discussion about other similar and possible actions of the sporting government bodies and what they ought to do also not possible in any shape or form?
 
While not discussing the cause for the sanctions, IIRC it was also not permitted to discuss the rights and wrongs of IOC banning Russia and Belarus? Is that right?

If so, is any discussion about other similar and possible actions of the sporting government bodies and what they ought to do also not possible in any shape or form?
It is obviously a very grey area: best I can suggest is to ask yourself a few questions
  • "Is my response essentially related to cycling?"
  • "Can someone agree/disagree with my post in a conversation (which is what the forum is, after all) without revealing their political viewpoint?"
  • "Could someone who fundamentally disagrees with me on this read my comments without being triggered?" Not happy with that one myself in retrospect, see post below by Red Flanders and my response to it
Those are quick responses as I need to be on my way to work: I reserve the right to tweak them when I've had more time to consider them.
 
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It is obviously a very grey area: best I can suggest is to ask yourself a few questions
  • "Is my response essentially related to cycling?"
  • "Can someone agree/disagree with my post in a conversation (which is what the forum is, after all) without revealing their political viewpoint?"
I think this is great and makes a ton of sense. Good, helpful guidance.
  • "Could someone who fundamentally disagrees with me on this read my comments without being triggered?"
This I find concerning. There's no way to predict what might trigger someone else. I'm not responsible for everyone's reaction, I'm responsible for staying within the rules of the forum. Of course any political post is going to trigger someone, but the rules cover that. We can't function as a group worrying about what reaction someone on the internet might have. Plenty of things within the bounds of the rules obviously trigger people. Can't see how this is tenable. People need to be responsible for their actions and reactions.
 
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I think this is great and makes a ton of sense. Good, helpful guidance.

This I find concerning. There's no way to predict what might trigger someone else. I'm not responsible for everyone's reaction, I'm responsible for staying within the rules of the forum. Of course any political post is going to trigger someone, but the rules cover that. We can't function as a group worrying about what reaction someone on the internet might have. Plenty of things within the bounds of the rules obviously trigger people. Can't see how this is tenable. People need to be responsible for their actions and reactions.

I did it in a hurry: I'm not as convinced about that one myself. Let's leave it as a list of two: what I meant by the third is pretty much implicit in the second, but I habitually write to the rule of three. I wrote in in the context of @Netserk 's question:
If so, is any discussion about other similar and possible actions of the sporting government bodies and what they ought to do also not possible in any shape or form?
 
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