Moderators

[Eshnar]

@King Boonen, you're probably right, I deleted everything.

 

[Cyivel]

Oh dear...

 

[Eshnar]

yeah better leave humour out of this thread, I should know already. Back on topic people.

 

[Netserk]

Funny to see how he went straight from Mod to biggest critic of the Mods. But then again he was already creating havoc as a mod, now he just continues as a user

I don't think I'm very critical of the mods. I do ask some questions as to where the line is, and I try my best to do so in a fair way, as I still (just like when I was a mod) like most of them.

I am critical of Dan though.

edit: Oh, and there hasn't really been much of a change, I just preferred to discuss such matters in the staff room, when I was a mod. After all modding is IMO a team sport.

 

[Netserk]

Netserk,
My understanding is all those names are public figures, as such they are all open to criticism and a certain level of ridicule and even insult. Comes with the territory. If they are also forum members (like say JV and Betsy), they are not open to personal insult in their capacity as a member taking part in forum discourse.

So Lance in his capacity as a public figure is a monkey mouthed lieing scumbag sociopath, but if he is posting in a thread as say "Juan Pelota" must be treated like every other forum member during that discussion

Cheers
Bison

This is what I thought. Of course one is not allowed to insult the user JV1971(correct numbers?), but I thought that the public figure Jonathan Vaughters was just as fair game as the public figure Bjarne Riis. This where also where I drew the line when I was a mod.

Now the question is when is it directed towards the forum user and when is it directed towards the public figure. There can be some grey areas, like in the JV thread, or in the Coggan thread before he participated in it himself.

 

[red_flanders]

Instead of micro-analyzing the guideline, why not just use common sense and the spirit of the no insults rule? Don't insult forum members because it leads to flame wars and is the lowest form of argumentation, i.e. "attack the messenger". Insulting public figures, while not bound to land you a ton of respect or admiration, does at times feel warranted and will not be taken personally by other forum members.

Is it really that hard to figure this stuff out?

 

[Netserk]

Instead of micro-analyzing the guideline, why not just use common sense and the spirit of the no insults rule? Don't insult forum members because it leads to flame wars and is the lowest form of argumentation, i.e. "attack the messenger". Insulting public figures, while not bound to land you a ton of respect or admiration, does at times feel warranted and will not be taken personally by other forum members.

Is it really that hard to figure this stuff out?

Are you replying to me?

 

[Granville57]

What was the answer to Papp-gate?

Seems like he prefers to sweep things under the carpet.

no idea. I wasn't mod at the time iirc and I didn't follow the events.

I wasn't a mod then either, but I can state fairly certainly that it was never properly addressed.

I even tried to reach Dan Benson by phone regarding the matter.

Here's what transpired:

Granville57: There has been a lot of stuff on the CN forum that you were definitely aware of over the last couple of years. One of the points was that you refused to address the Joe Papp issue. Could you explain that?

Benson: No I don’t know anything about that. I’d have to read up on it or something.

Granville57: I can give you the quote very quickly as I know you’re pressed for time. It’s from Glenn Wilson but it refers to Race Radio, and it says…

Benson: Granville, Granville, I’m getting ready to drive right now. So there’s nothing I’m going to know on that. You’ll have to get hold of me another time because I’m on the phone and they’re going to give me a ticket if I’m driving with it on the phone.

Granville57: Can I just ask one last question?

Benson: I’m driving with the phone and I’m going to get a ticket.

An hour later, Granville57 called Benson for a second time:

Benson: I’m busy right now. We’ll have to try another time. Thanks.

Granville57: Are you free later on this evening?

Benson: No. I’ve just got home from covering the Tour of Spain, Granville. I’m done with interviews. I’ve already done 200 or something like that. How come you didn’t come to Spain? I’ll let you go, I’m going to spend some time at home. Bye, bye.

[Benson hangs up]

It's true.

 

[Netserk]

 

[mewmewmew13]

I wasn't a mod then either, but I can state fairly certainly that it was never properly addressed.

I even tried to reach Dan Benson by phone regarding the matter.

Here's what transpired:

Granville57: There has been a lot of stuff on the CN forum that you were definitely aware of over the last couple of years. One of the points was that you refused to address the Joe Papp issue. Could you explain that?

Benson: No I don’t know anything about that. I’d have to read up on it or something.

Granville57: I can give you the quote very quickly as I know you’re pressed for time. It’s from Glenn Wilson but it refers to Race Radio, and it says…

Benson: Granville, Granville, I’m getting ready to drive right now. So there’s nothing I’m going to know on that. You’ll have to get hold of me another time because I’m on the phone and they’re going to give me a ticket if I’m driving with it on the phone.

Granville57: Can I just ask one last question?

Benson: I’m driving with the phone and I’m going to get a ticket.

An hour later, Granville57 called Benson for a second time:

Benson: I’m busy right now. We’ll have to try another time. Thanks.

Granville57: Are you free later on this evening?

Benson: No. I’ve just got home from covering the Tour of Spain, Granville. I’m done with interviews. I’ve already done 200 or something like that. How come you didn’t come to Spain? I’ll let you go, I’m going to spend some time at home. Bye, bye.

[Benson hangs up]

It's true.

LOL

you can't make this up

 

[MarkvW]

LOL

you can't make this up

But it's good that the forum lets you post stuff that critical of it. And, we can all be grateful that the odor of Papp has departed the forum.

 

[hiero2]

What was the answer to Papp-gate?

Seems like he prefers to sweep things under the carpet.

Not quite so, there was an answer to the Papp situation, it just wasn't what the complainers wanted to hear. Synopsis: There were two sides to the story. There was no verification for either story, and CN forums is not a jury, nor is this a trial. On the other hand, you have a point - the Papp situation intentionally received a low level of official public attention, as that was believed to be a way to let things calm down.

 

[hiero2]

I don't think I'm very critical of the mods. I do ask some questions as to where the line is, and I try my best to do so in a fair way, as I still (just like when I was a mod) like most of them.

I am critical of Dan though.

edit: Oh, and there hasn't really been much of a change, I just preferred to discuss such matters in the staff room, when I was a mod. After all modding is IMO a team sport.

And I have to agree that you are a long way from being "the biggest critic of yada yada". You DO do your best, in your way, to be fair. You are, imo, of more than average intelligent person, and it shows in the amount of learning and changes that you have made/done in the past couple of years.

That doesn't mean I believe you are always correct - I think you get wound around the axle on a regular basis - vortexed might be the word. Bogged down in the arguments. But, as they say, this, too, shall pass . . .

 

[Netserk]

Not quite so, there was an answer to the Papp situation, it just wasn't what the complainers wanted to hear. Synopsis: There were two sides to the story. There was no verification for either story, and CN forums is not a jury, nor is this a trial. On the other hand, you have a point - the Papp situation intentionally received a low level of official public attention, as that was believed to be a way to let things calm down.

So what was the answer from legal?

What did Dan do after he said he would wait for legal?

Anything other than silence?

Is silence an answer?

 

[ebandit]

the sound of silence

be H A P P Y papps gone for good

netserk.................while you were a mod why did you not pull out

the banninating stick?

Mark L

 

[Netserk]

Modding is team work + it was from before my time as a mod, so it would be up to those mods who were active back then.

 

[ebandit]

fun

doh! that sounds like 'too much hard work and no fun'

ah well?............it would have been a good idea........

Mark L

 

[BroDeal]

Some life in the forum, mostly civil discussion, and two people get banned. Brilliant. Fess up. You guys are acting on orders from on high to destroy the forum, right? You can tell us.

 

[the sceptic]

Some life in the forum, mostly civil discussion, and two people get banned. Brilliant. Fess up. You guys are acting on orders from on high to destroy the forum, right? You can tell us.

God forbid something entertaining should happen on this forum. Cant have that.

 

[aphronesis]

try a dog fight.

 

[aphronesis]

God forbid something entertaining should happen on this forum. Cant have that.

try a dog fight

 

[Netserk]

Some life in the forum, mostly civil discussion, and two people get banned. Brilliant. Fess up. You guys are acting on orders from on high to destroy the forum, right? You can tell us.

And most likely they were asked in a civil way to behave themselves.

For some that is just not enough.

What do you do then? Ask again with sugar on top? Or try with a different approach?

I know what I would do. Not sure what you would.

 

[Merckx index]

And most likely they were asked in a civil way to behave themselves.

Maybe. But I don’t see that there was a need to order all discussion to come to an end. It’s fairly rare that there is an issue in the Clinic that divides posters more or less evenly. I find it refreshing and challenging when people who are usually on one side of Clinic debates find themselves opposing each other. And this is a topic that goes far beyond cycling, when should someone speak up about something one knows is wrong?

I think SB was concerned that the situation was bogging down, that the same points were being raised (and ignored) again and again. If so, I definitely agree (though in his first warning to stop, SB displayed that same ignorance, asserting a point that had already been thoroughly rebutted). But the response to that should be to ask posters to move on from those points, not to demand that they stop the discussion completely. If people want to discuss someone who was a major part of Armstrong’s life, in the Armstrong thread, why shouldn’t they be allowed to, as long as they do so civilly? Needless to say, many, many stalemated discussions have been allowed in the Clinic in the past. They aren’t stopped just because the posters never find agreement.

 

[sittingbison]

Maybe. But I don’t see that there was a need to order all discussion to come to an end. It’s fairly rare that there is an issue in the Clinic that divides posters more or less evenly. I find it refreshing and challenging when people who are usually on one side of Clinic debates find themselves opposing each other. And this is a topic that goes far beyond cycling, when should someone speak up about something one knows is wrong?

I think SB was concerned that the situation was bogging down, that the same points were being raised (and ignored) again and again. If so, I definitely agree (though in his first warning to stop, SB displayed that same ignorance, asserting a point that had already been thoroughly rebutted). But the response to that should be to ask posters to move on from those points, not to demand that they stop the discussion completely. If people want to discuss someone who was a major part of Armstrong’s life, in the Armstrong thread, why shouldn’t they be allowed to, as long as they do so civilly? Needless to say, many, many stalemated discussions have been allowed in the Clinic in the past. They aren’t stopped just because the posters never find agreement.

All good points and observations Merckx index. Yes I could have summed up the debate better than I did with my initial warning. And yes I could have asked the convo to move along, which is what I usually do in similar (on the surface) situations.

One thing to consider though is there are sometimes issues in the background that influence mod decisions. And deliberately ignoring a mod decision is not conducive to getting the decision changed, rather its more conducive to getting a yellow card. Perhaps a PM to the mod (me in this case) if anyone feels such as this case it was a topic worth further probing without associated trolling and baiting, could clarify the situation or even get it reversed which has happened in several other circumstances.

 

[darwin553]

I never thought I would say this but I think there is a legitimate case for Netserk to be considered a better mod (when he was one) than SB. As bad as that sounds!