Moderators

[Eshnar]

soon enough Netserk will be remembered as a perfect mod. The trick is resigning.

 

[ebandit]

popular

of course mods will never be popular.............feck! I'm perfect

for the task

Mark L

 

[Netserk]

soon enough Netserk will be remembered as a perfect mod. The trick is resigning.

I know a couple of resigned ones that are far from perfect. Imho not even good.

But then again, I would only expect some posters here to be able to see what actually goes on. Darwin ain't one of them. Far from it.

edit: And I think the main reason why mods are (sometimes) unpopular is because of too much autonomy. I think we all know why there is so much of that... I remember one of the first things I said in the staff room was that our problem wasn't (necessarily) the lack of firepower, but the lack of target. If we all shot at the same direction, we'd need much less manpower. But currently there just isn't anyone choosing a direction (yes there is such a person, but he doesn't seem to care one bit), which results in the mods being too autonomic. imho.

***

Maybe. But I don’t see that there was a need to order all discussion to come to an end. It’s fairly rare that there is an issue in the Clinic that divides posters more or less evenly. I find it refreshing and challenging when people who are usually on one side of Clinic debates find themselves opposing each other. And this is a topic that goes far beyond cycling, when should someone speak up about something one knows is wrong?

I think SB was concerned that the situation was bogging down, that the same points were being raised (and ignored) again and again. If so, I definitely agree (though in his first warning to stop, SB displayed that same ignorance, asserting a point that had already been thoroughly rebutted). But the response to that should be to ask posters to move on from those points, not to demand that they stop the discussion completely. If people want to discuss someone who was a major part of Armstrong’s life, in the Armstrong thread, why shouldn’t they be allowed to, as long as they do so civilly? Needless to say, many, many stalemated discussions have been allowed in the Clinic in the past. They aren’t stopped just because the posters never find agreement.

I agree. Imo subjects that are on topic should *never* be censored because some participating in the discussing can't behave themselves. I mean, why should everyone be punished for the 'crime' of a few? Doesn't make sense. It was clear in this instance what thehog was up to, and tbh RR didn't do much better. I definitely think it was time for a mod to tell them to stop the mud fight, but if they or others manage to discuss the subject in a civilized way, then no one should be stopping them. I think we can all agree on that.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Berzin has retired? ridiculous plebs poster to a ridiculous mod.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

I know a couple of resigned ones that are far from perfect. Imho not even good.

But then again, I would only expect some posters here to be able to see what actually goes on. Darwin ain't one of them. Far from it.

edit: And I think the main reason why mods are (sometimes) unpopular is because of too much autonomy. I think we all know why there is so much of that... I remember one of the first things I said in the staff room was that our problem wasn't (necessarily) the lack of firepower, but the lack of target. If we all shot at the same direction, we'd need much less manpower. But currently there just isn't anyone choosing a direction (yes there is such a person, but he doesn't seem to care one bit), which results in the mods being too autonomic. imho.

***



I agree. Imo subjects that are on topic should *never* be censored because some participating in the discussing can't behave themselves. I mean, why should everyone be punished for the 'crime' of a few? Doesn't make sense. It was clear in this instance what thehog was up to, and tbh RR didn't do much better. I definitely think it was time for a mod to tell them to stop the mud fight, but if they or others manage to discuss the subject in a civilized way, then no one should be stopping them. I think we can all agree on that.

I guess in that situation, I'd ask why the mud slinging was so bad? Sooner or later, things like that peter out. But the topic itself was relevant to the thread, which is nothing but a big sinkhole for anything Armstrong. That Betsy and Crow are directly related in topic to him is all the relevance that thread seems to need.

"We want one big sinkhole, but you can't talk about relevant topics that we determine are not on-topic when it is apparent that any topic related to who or whatever is in the title of the thread must be presented in this massive sinkhole of thought."

As for the mods, I don't envy their position. With people like me around shooting spitballs at the back of other poster's heads when the teacher isn't looking, well, I'm sure it gets frustrating.

 

[Netserk]

I guess in that situation, I'd ask why the mud slinging was so bad? Sooner or later, things like that peter out. But the topic itself was relevant to the thread, which is nothing but a big sinkhole for anything Armstrong. That Betsy and Crow are directly related in topic to him is all the relevance that thread seems to need.

I think that was what I said? Of course that topic should be discussed in that thread, but, since the rules are a compromise of different opinions, there are other rules than just being on topic, which thehog and RR clearly didn't respect. Whether or not the current compromise of rules are good, bad or craptastic is another discussion.

"We want one big sinkhole, but you can't talk about relevant topics that we determine are not on-topic when it is apparent that any topic related to who or whatever is in the title of the thread must be presented in this massive sinkhole of thought."

I think this is directed to someone other than me?

As for the mods, I don't envy their position. With people like me around shooting spitballs at the back of other poster's heads when the teacher isn't looking, well, I'm sure it gets frustrating.

Depends on which kind of a mod you are. I'd much rather have another one like you than another idiot posting idiotic content.

edit: But that said, there are other posters here I rather would duplicate than you, if I had the chance

 

[ChewbaccaD]

I think that was what I said? Of course that topic should be discussed in that thread, but, since the rules are a compromise of different opinions, there are other rules than just being on topic, which thehog and RR clearly didn't respect. Whether or not the current compromise of rules are good, bad or craptastic is another discussion.

Depends on which kind of a mod you are. I'd much rather have another one like you than another idiot posting idiotic content.

edit: But that said, there are other posters here I rather would duplicate than you, if I had the chance

I quoted your post, but my post was really meant in relation to the current moderators, rather than a refutation of anything you said.

And in all fairness, there are other moderators I rather would duplicate than you, if I had the chance

 

[Netserk]

And in all fairness, there are other moderators I rather would duplicate than you, if I had the chance

I'm still a mod?

PS: Ouch. Who?

 

[ChewbaccaD]

I'm still a mod?

PS: Ouch. Who?

None, it was just a turn of phrase.

 

[Netserk]

Feared you would be mean and say Berzin

 

[Granville57]

Not quite so, there was an answer to the Papp situation, it just wasn't what the complainers wanted to hear.

Nice try but that's pure bs.

There was never an answer. Threads that requested an answer were either immediately locked or flat-out deleted. Fact.

All that was ever conveyed was...oh wait, here ya' go:

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1118369&postcount=4

01-22-13
This matter has not yet been resolved.

Susan

For further reading:
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=18603

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1030063&postcount=56

09-21-12
Message from Dan:
"I'm traveling and legal are still looking into this matter."

In the meantime, thread closed.

 

[Granville57]

https://twitter.com/dnlbenson/status/425746765409951744

Watching people get angry on twitter is a pastime in itself

Yup. Kinda like me wondering if you'll ever answer the f'cking question.

 

[Berzin]

Berzin has retired? ridiculous plebs poster to a ridiculous mod.

Still a mod whether you like it or not.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Still a mod whether you like it or not.

I know. I may get to like it. internet should be fun and not all serious.

 

[Berzin]

I know. I may get to like it. internet should be fun and not all serious.

It should be, but it's not for certain posters. I've been a moderator on the biggest, most extensive Caribbean island forum for a number of years and every time I've said to myself "now I've seen it all" something pops up that makes me reconsider this notion.

Patience is the key to being a mod. You have to not take things personally. It's one thing to have someone disagree with how the site is moderated. It's another thing when someone goes about it in a disrespectful and belligerent manner, especially when a particular mod is called out.

Respect is not a one-way street. Some of you need to realize that regardless of how many posts you have and how long you've been a member, this doesn't accord you any type of special status. You're a member of the forum just like anyone else.

This is not the NBA, where superstars get preferential treatment from the referees. Here, an infraction is an infraction and it applies to all. And when you make a comment worthy of either editing or deletion, it will get edited or deleted.

What some don't realize is that when you come at a mod in a disrespectful manner, especially in public without contacting the mod in question first via pm to see if the disagreement can be dealt with off-site, you lose a lot of credibility when you resort to such sarcastic, snarky jabs.

This is not the way to handle issues. For those who don't comprehend this, here are some examples-

1) Why did you delete this particular post? I would like clarification on this.

2) Why are you such a dyck?

3) Why is (pick a moderator) still a moderator? He's the worst...

4) You're (again, pick a mod) the reason why members are leaving the site in droves.

If comments #2, #3, and #4 seem appropriate to any of you, whether they are sent via pm or posted publicly for all to see, then there is no need for further discussion on this matter because you will never get it. These comments are made willfully and purposely with malice aforethought.

But it needs to be said for the sake of airing it out and hopefully leading to some positive discussion. We as mods all feel the same way about the site, regardless of how we go about it. We are all individuals, not automatons. Yes, we have universal guidelines to follow, but we do not see all things the same way. For the most part, there should be unanimity in terms of how the rules are enforced, but we all have different ways of going about it.

None of us have delusions of grandeur about our roles here. We want the best for the site and would appreciate the type of dialog that is conducive to improving the site.

We don't know everything, and sometimes make mistakes, but we live, learn and try to improve. With the help of feedback from all of you, we can do this. I hope some of you understand the roles you play in this, and how one goes about it is sometimes more important than the point you are trying to get across.

 

[Netserk]

Hi Berzin, do you sometimes consider whether or not it would be better for the site if you weren't a mod?

 

[pmcg76]

Hi Berzin, do you sometimes consider whether or not it would be better for the site if you weren't a mod?

Did you not consider that yourself as well, long before you actually stopped.

 

[Netserk]

Did you not consider that yourself as well, long before you actually stopped.

Yeah I considered that several times.

 

[the sceptic]

should mods really be going around editing other peoples posts? I find that pretty offensive.

 

[Netserk]

should mods really be going around editing other peoples posts? I find that pretty offensive.

Don't worry, they'll leave your post(s) alone, if you edit them yourself in time!

 

[Cyivel]

Hey Berzin, I think hierro2 hacked your account.

 

[Berzin]

There's no reasoning with some of you. I rest my case.

 

[Cyivel]

eh? It was a throwaway comment about the fact he has made a few long posts on the subject of moderation, think you're reading a bit much into it buddy.

 

[hiero2]

Nice try but that's pure bs.

There was never an answer. Threads that requested an answer were either immediately locked or flat-out deleted. Fact.

All that was ever conveyed was...oh wait, here ya' go:

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1118369&postcount=4



For further reading:
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=18603

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1030063&postcount=56

Granville, I'm gonna be rude. I'm not gonna go find the links, but you saying "wrong" is wrong. Incorrect. I know, I posted and linked to the answers a couple of times somewhere in the history of time. Don't want to take my word for it? Go waste your own time in a search. Sorry, I'm not interested.

I will say this - "legal" never came back with an answer that we heard. So if you are trying to pigeonhole the thing, and misdirect the answer by being overly strict - hey, I surrender - and you can count the coup. There ya go.

C ya.

 

[Granville57]

I guess it's just me then, because I said this:

There was never an answer.

And your response was this:

I will say this - "legal" never came back with an answer that we heard.

Anyway, in the future, if you really are intending to be rude, don't start by saying, "I'm going to be rude," because that only makes you appear to be polite—which you are.

But I was rude by attacking you with the "bs" comment, as none of this was intended to be directed at you. It's really meant for Dan Benson. So you have my apology.

Trust me though, this matter doesn't keep me up at nights. I just find it amusing that Benson will sometimes wear the hat of Probing Reporter when dealing with questionable cyclists, but then completely evades a matter that was of significant concern to many of the forum members here. Significant enough to drive away some of the most experienced mods.

I do believe something got lost in translation between you and I though. If I can figure out exactly what that was, I will PM you.