Moderators

[straydog]

....brevity....

To be fair I can only recall one occasion where I was wrong. When I realized my mistake I apologized to the poster, explained why, and encouraged him to continue to post. I think the issue of low post count posters being confronted is largely in the past.

....brevity

Does this mean I can expect a PM for all the insinuations about me being an intern for PS? Can I post it when it arrives?

And you were only wrong once? really? Was that when you told someone it would cost 400 bucks to get a medical cert to race in Europe? Or that he could try a sportive if he was looking for a race? despite them...you know....not actually being races. Or was it when you posted that pic of the handicapped child as an attempt at humour?

Race Radio...I love ya....really I do....but this and your previous post are perfectly examples of the problem I have with your posting style, and why I have a problem with the mods when I hear you have never been banned here. You present your opinion as fact and see no irony in how you drag threads from their point by constantly banging on about fanboys "babbling" or talking "nonsense". For example you stated in an earlier post that the two contrasting opinions regarding LA did not share equal validity....you then go on to say that low post count fanboys aren't getting gang banged anymore....really?....why don't you have a quick look through my thread and see how you and a few others have behaved and maybe reconsider your evidence.

Further to that you say that BPC pmed you some nonsense. Whilst I don't doubt he pmed you, why not post (if the mods allow) what he said and let us make up our mind as to it's sense?

Listen, I give you credit for spending time researching your opinions and for knowing how to use google....really I do...but the fact that your fairly ceaseless baiting of those whose opinion differs from your mantra goes unchecked I think reflects badly on the mods.

Martin318....you say you are confused by my earlier assertion...and yet that you continually hear that refrain....is that not a clue? That people continually think that? That maybe there is a trend? Just maybe it isn't just the occasional whiny fanboy like me?

Francois....thank you for your thoughful reply....Ok here is some further colour to what I said earlier:

I have been banned once from here (you were wrong on that one too RR, when you said I keep getting banned....don't worry about a separate pm...one will do)

As I said I was banned, in balance, pretty deservedly, for posting a link to an erotic film about lawyers and insinuating the our mate novitsky had been working out....now when I asked some perfectly valid questions in this thread to two mods about consistency in regards to my two month ban....i.e were posters to descriptions of pornography sanctioned? or posts that attempted to cast aspersions about fellow posters sexuality sanctioned? or posts that included offensive pictures sanctioned? The only answer I received was a warning about my posting style. I toned it down and asked again....and twenty pages later am still awaiting an answer. That to me, in balance, seems like avoidance, and is one of the reasons a perception exists in me of bias from certain mods.

Barrus...actually I did email an admin when I got banned (not Susan) and three months later am still eagerly awaiting his answer....I shall let you know when I get it. As for Susan being the sole recipient of emails from the dark side....actually I think she probably has enough on her plate, all things considered, and I would actually feel bad if she was the only one getting correspondence of this sort. Why not just set up a generic mod email address, and then take it turns to man it?

Peace

 

[Martin318is]

Further to that you say that BPC pmed you some nonsense. Whilst I don't doubt he pmed you, why not post (if the mods allow) what he said and let us make up our mind as to it's sense?

I will attest to the fact that the PMs to raceRadio were nonsense from BPC (and that mods and other forum members also received similar pms from BPCs accounts)

 

[Martin318is]

Martin318....you say you are confused by my earlier assertion...and yet that you continually hear that refrain....is that not a clue? That people continually think that? That maybe there is a trend? Just maybe it isn't just the occasional whiny fanboy like me?

I thought it was quite clear. I hear the accusation regularly from a small number of the same people but nobody that makes the claim seems able to provide any evidence that its the case.

I challenge you right now to provide me with a link to a post or thread or warning of yours where a moderator has edited your post due to disagreeing with the point you were trying to make. To my knowledge this has NEVER happened on this site.

That accusation is VERY different to feeling that FOR INSTANCEbeing Pro Lance makes a person in the minority here. Thats not a case of moderator policy. Its just a function of who likes to post on this site. It is not supported or rejected by the moderators - they just try to keep things civil.

 

[Francois the Postman]

Sorry for lifting only one bit out Straydog and possibly ignoring some points in the rest. This just caught my eye just when I was about to go to bed...

Further to that you say that BPC pmed you some nonsense. Whilst I don't doubt he pmed you, why not post (if the mods allow) what he said and let us make up our mind as to it's sense?

I won't allow that. BPC is banned and none of his writings will be permitted to be regurgitated anywhere on the forum here. I don't want to patrol the site for snippets of quotes either, but we are fed up with guy and want to make all the time he spent here as unrewarding as possible. No visible traces. You don't know half the stuff that goes on outside your view.

You're just gonna have to take it from me that RR has been absolutely flooded with OTT pms, and that pestering has continued much much longer than he should have accepted from us.

RR has been a good sport in that. It doesn't buy him many favours for me when he steps over the line, but I do appreciate his attitude in this.

Anyone questioning RRs sincerity on this particular point will have me to deal with.

He knows, we know. That will have to do I am afraid.


Regarding your other point, I get what you are driving at. I'm less interested in who did what to whom and how, or discussing individual cases in detail. I am looking forward into how to take all of us forwards in away that we all can live with, and will do the forum a world of good.

It would be ideal if people could let go a bit of the clique and mob accusations, and we can go back to posting as posters who all have one thing in common, we love cycling. Have spirited debates by all means. Just stop the snapping at each other heels.

 

[straydog]

I thought it was quite clear. I hear the accusation regularly from a small number of the same people but nobody that makes the claim seems able to provide any evidence that its the case.

I challenge you right now to provide me with a link to a post or thread or warning of yours where a moderator has edited your post due to disagreeing with the point you were trying to make. To my knowledge this has NEVER happened on this site.

That accusation is VERY different to feeling that FOR INSTANCEbeing Pro Lance makes a person in the minority here. Thats not a case of moderator policy. Its just a function of who likes to post on this site. It is not supported or rejected by the moderators - they just try to keep things civil.

Martin, firstly I can attest that I too have received pm's from BPC and that none of them were, to my mind, nonsense....

As to your challenge....if I may, I would respond by asking you to show me, just once, where I said that unpopular posts were being deleted? Please find that for me and then I of course wil be happy to answer.

My point wasn't posts being deleted....it is posters being deleted (banned) or sanctioned or curtailed or not given the same rights of protection as some others appear to.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Martin, firstly I can attest that I too have received pm's from BPC and that none of them were, to my mind, nonsense....

As to your challenge....if I may, I would respond by asking you to show me, just once, where I said that unpopular posts were being deleted? Please find that for me and then I of course wil be happy to answer.

My point wasn't posts being deleted....it is posters being deleted (banned) or sanctioned or curtailed or not given the same rights of protection as some others appear to.

As you like challenges - why don't you show just once where Martin even mentioned the word deleted in the reply you quoted?

As for BPC & his Private Messages - I received some at the beginning and he had definitely gone off the deep end.
I have deleted them all but regardless would never divulge a PM unless I had obtained the senders permission - they are Private Messages and that facility should not be abused.

 

[Martin318is]

Martin, firstly I can attest that I too have received pm's from BPC and that none of them were, to my mind, nonsense....

As to your challenge....if I may, I would respond by asking you to show me, just once, where I said that unpopular posts were being deleted? Please find that for me and then I of course wil be happy to answer.

My point wasn't posts being deleted....it is posters being deleted (banned) or sanctioned or curtailed or not given the same rights of protection as some others appear to.

I apologise that in an attempt at speed and brevity I overly narrowed your point.

Regarding that point then, the situation pretty much still stands. I am not aware of a single member that received a suspension that did not deserve it for a clear breach of forum rules (or upon reflection was reinstated when further information was presented).

I am also not aware of a single instance where the bias of the member themselves was taken into account when a member was suspended. Nor where the bias of the moderator was involved. If you have evidence of this to paraphrase the classics - Publish it or be damned.

The key thing that you need to realise is that often it comes down to the reaction of a member to a warning or red card. Many of those that you appear adamant should be banned for various posts have reacted to those warnings by being sincerely apologetic and editing their own posts. An example of this would be TFF or indedd RaceRadio.

The other type of user reacts to an initial warning by taking umbrage, acusing moderators of bias, and then roaming the site causing trouble. It is this type of user that tends to ultimately get banned.

Individual infractions are usually only taken in context in the behaviour in the next few weeks to months. Therefore it is entirely possible for someone you personally dislike to receive a warning or two per month - every month - IF the rest of their posting history is acceptable on the forum.

I'd caution you of one other thing - bringing up BPC implying you think he should be reinstated does NOTHING for your argument. BPC will never be allowed back and anyone that assists him in continuing to cause trouble will not be welcome either. Further discussion of his case is UTTERLY pointless.
(Note that I am NOT saying that you are doing that - I am just reminding those watching this thread of something that has previously been stated elsewhere)

 

[Francois the Postman]

With the exception that people who have received an abusive pm from another user are strongly encouraged to forward it to a moderator. And if you have received an email from BPC, do let us know ASAP.

 

[scribe]

Is there anyone here that hasn't received PMs from BPC? That really is the question.

 

[straydog]

As you like challenges - why don't you show just once where Martin even mentioned the word deleted in the reply you quoted?

As for BPC & his Private Messages - I received some at the beginning and he had definitely gone off the deep end.
I have deleted them all but regardless would never divulge a PM unless I had obtained the senders permission - they are Private Messages and that facility should not be abused.

Mas....deleted....edited....really?....is that the best you could come up with to try and derail this?

OK....Martin....see above...I meant edited....my sincerest apologies.

 

[straydog]

I apologise that in an attempt at speed and brevity I overly narrowed your point.

Regarding that point then, the situation pretty much still stands. I am not aware of a single member that received a suspension that did not deserve it for a clear breach of forum rules (or upon reflection was reinstated when further information was presented).

I am also not aware of a single instance where the bias of the member themselves was taken into account when a member was suspended. Nor where the bias of the moderator was involved. If you have evidence of this to paraphrase the classics - Publish it or be damned.

The key thing that you need to realise is that often it comes down to the reaction of a member to a warning or red card. Many of those that you appear adamant should be banned for various posts have reacted to those warnings by being sincerely apologetic and editing their own posts. An example of this would be TFF or indedd RaceRadio.

The other type of user reacts to an initial warning by taking umbrage, acusing moderators of bias, and then roaming the site causing trouble. It is this type of user that tends to ultimately get banned.

Individual infractions are usually only taken in context in the behaviour in the next few weeks to months. Therefore it is entirely possible for someone you personally dislike to receive a warning or two per month - every month - IF the rest of their posting history is acceptable on the forum.

I'd caution you of one other thing - bringing up BPC implying you think he should be reinstated does NOTHING for your argument. BPC will never be allowed back and anyone that assists him in continuing to cause trouble will not be welcome either. Further discussion of his case is UTTERLY pointless.
(Note that I am NOT saying that you are doing that - I am just reminding those watching this thread of something that has previously been stated elsewhere)

Martin....sorry....where did I ever imply I thought BPC should be reinstated?
I mentioned RR stating that his pm's were nonsense to point out RR's assertion of his opinions as fact. Which, having received pm's lacking in nonsense myself, I welcomed the chance to verify for myself.

Look, you make a decision what constitutes harrassment when it comes to pm's and their amount, and that is your right. One thing I would take issue with, mainly with RR, is his assertion that posting a lot constitutes trolling. I mean he has almost 4,000 posts in a year. If someone types fast, or comes up with numerous arguments that does not make them a troll.

As to the highlighted....I completely disagree with you Martin. To suggest that you or any other mod is so robotic as to never be influenced by bias is really simplistic or naive. It is human nature. And completely understandable. But when it happens I think you need to be big enough to admit it. Please read further back into this thread where I have produced an example....essentially it concerns my ban....I was initially warned...apologised....asked for clarification...and then without further posts was banned....and then when I didn't complain upon my return but asked for some further clarification I was warned once again.

One last example....I said novtitzky was "buff"....and then read that was construed as an insult and was part of the reason for my ban. I honestly still don't get that part.

....I am not aware of a single member that received a suspension that did not deserve it for a clear breach of forum rules....to be pedantic, actually when I got banned there were no rules regarding...ahem...erotic links....and honestly, having seen some posts prior to mine, didn't know I was doing something soooo bad considering the obviously humorous context.
Hey....but I honestly don't have a problem with my ban...just making you aware....seeing as you weren't.

 

[The Hitch]

Is there anyone here that hasn't received PMs from BPC? That really is the question.

People who post on the "Proffesional road cycling" part of the forum, rather than the "What did Lance say on twitter yesterday" part of the forum aka clinic.

That accusation is VERY different to feeling that FOR INSTANCEbeing Pro Lance makes a person in the minority here. Thats not a case of moderator policy. Its just a function of who likes to post on this site. It is not supported or rejected by the moderators - they just try to keep things civil.

Pro Lance makes one in the minority perhaps because the issue of whether he lies or not is so clear cut, that people generally, after reading the evidence in the clinic, fall onto the anti side.

THough having said that, there are those who make jokes about him getting raped in prison, so maybe the forum is a bit anti Lance biased.

 

[Martin318is]

THough having said that, there are those who make jokes about him getting raped in prison..

Its been said many times in this thread but - we would truly appreciate it if as soon as people see such comments they click on the report to moderator button.

We do NOT condone such comments - its just that as we have said before - we just don't always actually SEE them.

 

[straydog]

Its been said many times in this thread but - we would truly appreciate it if as soon as people see such comments they click on the report to moderator button.

We do NOT condone such comments - its just that as we have said before - we just don't always actually SEE them.

Thanks for clarifying that Martin...and although i think you might come to regret suggesting it....I shall certainly take the time to draw your attention to any posts of that nature in future.

 

[Race Radio]

Does this mean I can expect a PM for all the insinuations about me being an intern for PS? Can I post it when it arrives?

And you were only wrong once? really? Was that when you told someone it would cost 400 bucks to get a medical cert to race in Europe? Or that he could try a sportive if he was looking for a race? despite them...you know....not actually being races. Or was it when you posted that pic of the handicapped child as an attempt at humour?

And you wonder why others react negatively to you.

The part you intentionality left out was about being wrong about guessing if a poster was BPC, I mentioned nothing to do with PS or medical checks.

Yes, a foreigner can be charged to get a medical exam. I was very clear about what a sportif was, how it differed from what he was used to, and why it could be an option for the poster who asked.

When you attempt to twist these discussions into something they are not it only enforces the reason why people think you are more interested in conflict then discussion.

One thing I would take issue with, mainly with RR, is his assertion that posting a lot constitutes trolling.

When you deliberately twist someones words you should not be surprised when they react negatively to you. I, and others, were clear that when someone floods a thread with 40-50 posts within a matters of a few hours it can have a disruptive effect on the forum. Posting an average for 4-5 times a day on multiple threads does not achieve this.

 

[Ferminal]

As you like challenges - why don't you show just once where Martin even mentioned the word deleted in the reply you quoted?

As for BPC & his Private Messages - I received some at the beginning and he had definitely gone off the deep end.
I have deleted them all but regardless would never divulge a PM unless I had obtained the senders permission - they are Private Messages and that facility should not be abused.

Oh I don't care about that in BPC's sake (he has absolved all of his rights!), just don't want to give him the rise of having his wise (private) words posted (publically).

 

[straydog]

And you wonder why others react negatively to you.

The part you intentionality left out was about being wrong about guessing if a poster was BPC, I mentioned nothing to do with PS or medical checks.

Yes, a foreigner can be charged to get a medical exam. I was very clear about what a sportif was, how it differed from what he was used to, and why it could be an option for the poster who asked.

When you attempt to twist these discussions into something they are not it only enforces the reason why people think you are more interested in conflict then discussion.

Sorry the highlighted bit confused me...you didn't mention them...but you did...ok.

Yes foreigners are charged for medical certs here in europe....25 euros..and actually I told the guy how a sportive differed from a race....not you...but you are right...these details aren't really relevant to this thread.

What is though, is your assertion that I wonder why people react negatively to me....well, when it is "people" such as you Race....I honestly don't wonder at all. You have your agenda, of that none of us are in any doubt.

And listen, despite you carefully avoiding your finest hour and that picture....I do also like your assertion that "people" think I am more interested in conflict....cos it's funny despite some pretty egregious fails....i have enjoyed a lot of enjoyable discussions here, and have some very nice pm's from other members sharing that opinion.

I defend your right to post whatever opinions or "facts" you want Race. In fact i welcome it. However when I think you over step the mark, or display any "full on troll" qualities, I will from now on draw it to the mod's attention.

By the way...did you ever find a pub here showing bike racing when you came over?

 

[Race Radio]

Sorry the highlighted bit confused me...you didn't mention them...but you did...ok.

Yes foreigners are charged for medical certs here in europe....25 euros..and actually I told the guy how a sportive differed from a race....not you...but you are right...these details aren't really relevant to this thread.

What is though, is your assertion that I wonder why people react negatively to me....well, when it is "people" such as you Race....I honestly don't wonder at all. You have your agenda, of that none of us are in any doubt.

And listen, despite you carefully avoiding your finest hour and that picture....I do also like your assertion that "people" think I am more interested in conflict....cos it's funny despite some pretty egregious fails....i have enjoyed a lot of enjoyable discussions here, and have some very nice pm's from other members sharing that opinion.

I defend your right to post whatever opinions or "facts" you want Race. In fact i welcome it. However when I think you over step the mark, or display any "full on troll" qualities, I will from now on draw it to the mod's attention.

By the way...did you ever find a pub here showing bike racing when you came over?

Thank you for proving my point. Your interest is not to add to the discussion but to attack those that disagree with you. I was clear from the start that Belgium is the easiest place to race, pointed out some of different license in France, and provided the info on sportifs and GF's and another option... especially for a rider from the US. That you attempt to twist this shows your agenda.

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=9297&highlight=license

As you claim to be in Europe it is 4 am, time to go to sleep eh?

 

[straydog]

Thank you for proving my point. Your interest is not to add to the discussion but to attack those that disagree with you. I was clear from the start that Belgium is the easiest place to race, pointed out some of different license in France, and provided the info on sportifs and GF's and another option... especially for a rider from the US. That you attempt to twist this shows your agenda.

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=9297&highlight=license

As you claim to be in Europe it is 4 am, time to go to sleep eh?

No Race my interest is to say something is wrong if i think it is.

And you are right it is 4.05 am here. But I am interested why you think I would "claim" to be in europe? If I might apply your logic....that is a pretty telling statement about your interest.

The guy was asking about "races"...not sportives...also seeing as you mention it racing in belgium is not the easiest place here....firstly because detailed information is very hard to come by unless you speak flemish and/ or know where to find it. The protocols at races are also incredibly confusing for newcomers and those without local knowledge. And secondly, the categories do not acquaint with anything you have in the US (or anywhere else for that matter) at kermis, and there are only certain races that non attached riders can ride.
France and the Uk are the easiest places to race on a US UCI licence, followed by Italy and spain. If you haven't raced in Europe before I would say that whilst racing in Belgium is probably the most testing, it is certainly not the easiest to participate in. Also frankly, it is the most likely place to get your *** well and truly kicked if you do ever get involved.

And frankly RR...how late I stay up is my business....but thanks for the concern

 

[straydog]

Sorry Race Radio....also, just to check...so were you not wrong about the photo?

You keep missing that one...I kind of see why...but I'm interested to know your answer.

 

[Race Radio]

No Race my interest is to say something is wrong if i think it is.

And you are right it is 4.05 am here. But I am interested why you think I would "claim" to be in europe? If I might apply your logic....that is a pretty telling statement about your interest.

The guy was asking about "races"...not sportives...also seeing as you mention it racing in belgium is not the easiest place here....firstly because detailed information is very hard to come by unless you speak flemish and/ or know where to find it. The protocols at races are also incredibly confusing for newcomers and those without local knowledge. And secondly, the categories do not acquaint with anything you have in the US (or anywhere else for that matter) at kermis, and there are only certain races that non attached riders can ride.
France and the Uk are the easiest places to race on a US UCI licence, followed by Italy and spain. If you haven't raced in Europe before I would say that whilst racing in Belgium is probably the most testing, it is certainly not the easiest to participate in. Also frankly, it is the most likely place to get your *** well and truly kicked if you do ever get involved.

And frankly RR...how late I stay up is my business....but thanks for the concern

Your desire to twist what I have written to fit your pre-conceived ideas is impressive.

It is clear that I was referring to the ease of entry, not the quality of racing. Spare the fake lecture. Go to Spain or Italy and try to enter a U23 race...let us know how easy that is enter. As I am aware of the differences between American racing and Continental I was nice enough to suggest another option that has a lower barrier to entry.

It might be better to resurrect the long dead thread that has been causing you such anguish then highjacking this thread

 

[Martin318is]

ahem...

gentlemen, I assume you will both accept that I have deleted the last few posts on your sub conversation as it has nothing to do with the topic of moderation of this forum.

Feel free to continue it in PM.

 

[straydog]

Your desire to twist what I have written to fit your pre-conceived ideas is impressive.

It is clear that I was referring to the ease of entry, not the quality of racing. Spare the fake lecture. Go to Spain or Italy and try to enter a U23 race...let us know how easy that is enter. As I am aware of the differences between American racing and Continental I was nice enough to suggest another option that has a lower barrier to entry.

It might be better to resurrect the long dead thread that has been causing you such anguish then highjacking this thread

crikey Race...you really missed my point....I was talking about the "ease" of entering racing in belgium not being easy...as well as the racing itself. Why didn't you post the flemish race calendar, then explain the cats, which races he could and couldn't enter unattached, where to meet for race sign ups, hell even where to change....

Who the hell mentioned U23 races? How was that relevant?

Anyway....you have a point....let's both of us move this bit to somewhere more appropriate....

Let's get back to giving the mods a hard time for not banning you

Oh come on....you gotta give me that one


p.s....piccy...still don't wanna talk about it?

 

[straydog]

ahem...

gentlemen, I assume you will both accept that I have deleted the last few posts on your sub conversation as it has nothing to do with the topic of moderation of this forum.

Feel free to continue it in PM.

Fair enough Martin....understood and accepted. You better delete my last one too....lol

tsk!....bl**dy mods...

 

[Skandar Akbar]

bolded is the key.

if an individual is out of control or can't be reasoned by a mixture of pms and and shorter suspensions, there is a point when that individual's motives have to be judged as malicious.

i haven't had a chance to read bucky's tweets but judging by his inputs in certain threads i can see him spinning out of control. i don't judge the mods for permanently banning him - it's not my call - but i believe that bucky, unlike another user frequently featured here and currently banned, is capable of reflection and remorse.

Looks like you was wrong with the bold bit above. Good luck next time.