Moderators

[Race Radio]

I was instructed to create that account by Afrank. He contacted me while I was still posting as Luigi_Max_Again, trolling the board and trying to get permanently banned, and told me they would give me another chance but I had to create a new account. I followed his instructions and I created the Kotar_Rhakoz account.

Nice to see the mods are so supportive of trolls.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Berzin closed no way the clinic is clean thread...Good closer..must be a good pitcher.

 

[TheSpud]

From my point of view the ban wasn't for not backing up the claim but for endless bickering / arguing with other users that resulted.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for people having opinions / views / discussions / debates - this is a forum after all. But posting claims that are purported to be true facts and then refusing to back them up with evidential links just derails things with the result we saw. I was hoping for some evidence to back it up / clarify while I was coming to my judgement as to the whole situation / thread and what JTL had been up to.

Maybe in circumstances like this the user in question should be made to post a public statement in the thread stating that he / she had made the post up and that it should be ignored. In my view, that would be embarrassing and maybe after a few repetitions might make people think twice before presenting 'facts' that are totally baseless.

Can I just ask - are we expecting The Hog to post that link in the JTL thread? If not is he expected to state that he has no link to back it up?

 

[BroDeal]

Can I just ask - are we expecting The Hog to post that link in the JTL thread? If not is he expected to state that he has no link to back it up?

Maybe he can post that right after RR posts proof that Armstrong getting his picture taken while watching a race is part of a vast conspiracy. He can follow that up with proof of his charges against Joe Papp that damaged the forum.

This has nothing to do with posting claims. That is a swindle the Sky Miracle True Believers Congregation can sob about as they politic to get rid of the unfaithful.

 

[Race Radio]

Maybe he can post that right after RR posts proof that Armstrong getting his picture taken while watching a race is part of a vast conspiracy. He can follow that up with proof of his charges against Joe Papp that damaged the forum.

Reading not your thing? Wrote extensively about both. Sorry you missed it.

 

[TheSpud]

Maybe he can post that right after RR posts proof that Armstrong getting his picture taken while watching a race is part of a vast conspiracy. He can follow that up with proof of his charges against Joe Papp that damaged the forum.

Please can you not drag me in to a dispute between you and RR. I only asked because the mods said he should respond when he was back, just not sure if that was to be public or not.

 

[BroDeal]

Reading not your thing? Wrote extensively about both. Sorry you missed it.

I did not miss anything. Allegations based on nothing more than associations or I heard it from a friend of a friend who might have overheard in while taking a dump in a public restroom do not constitute proof. If you are going to charge into threads using the demand for proof to club the Hog then it is only fair you do the same with your many dubious tales.

You can start with Papp. The only verifiable thing there is that one person has leveled serious allegations and the accused has forcefully denied it. The track record and propensity for twisting facts to serve an anti Armstrong agenda has to make people wonder whether Papp was on the receiving end of one of your hatchet jobs.

 

[Race Radio]

I did not miss anything.

Yeah, you didn't miss it. You ignored it.

Compare and contrast.

An Austin photographer whose only experience shooting Pro bikes races was shooting a propaganda book for lance flies to Colorado 4 days prior to the race. Spends the weekend shooting an charity event organized by lance's girlfriend. Does a photo shoot with Lance. Spends the race shooting mostly pictures of Lance watching the race......then shoots no more stages of a 8 day race. The evidence points to a conclusion that the reason she was there was to take pictures of lance.

Now contrast that to

JTL was named Leader of the UK Worlds team in April.....Proof? Nothing
JTL's Defense was paid for by Sky....Proof? Nothing

As for your buddy Papp. I could send you some emails, but it is clear it would not change anything as facts are not your thing

 

[Afrank]

Folks, this is the moderators thread.

@Spud, Hog's free to back it up if he wishes (we can't really force him too). But until he does we can safely assume the claims were not true.

 

[thehog]

So for the most part you are saying that there is a not you can (or will) do.

The claim was proven to not be backed up. You point at this incident as one where the mods took action but it took a bunch of people (some of whom got banned) numerous attempts to make the mods take any action at all.

Even Stevie Wonder could have seen what the JTL thread was going to result in.

I agree with you and I apologise that the entire issue was dragged out and resulted in the banning of yourself. My only defence was I felt the “method” for requesting the link wasn’t appropriate – i.e. part of alternate discussion etc. I would have happily answered it in a sidebar thread or what have you and stated as such.

I also apologise to you personally for giving you a hard time when you first joined the forum. Hitch informed me that I went too far and for that I'm sorry. I hope you post here more often & will enjoy the friendly fire if you shall choose to be here more regularly.

Leading on from this, because I was gang tackled about the “zig zag” incident in the Walsh book, which was explained at the time and again in the moderators thread, I got the impression users were going after me just because it was me. I didn’t feel the Walsh “zig zag’ claim was a troubling matter for anybody. Whilst one complains about threads being “clogged” there is an argument for ganging up and relentlessly attacking one poster on a point which was largely irrelevant. What I mean is what you complain about most is exactly what you were doing, dragging down a thread. I'd spent my own money on the book and provided direct references to its contents. To be attacked on that front was just plain odd and only fuelled the fire leading to bans. I hope you understand that I wasn't going to concede on a link after I was hit up in that fashion.

To the JTL claim, I don’t believe it was a big problem. I thought I provide what was supporting evidence to the fact but agree to my knowledge there is no direct link which states Sky paid for his defence. I'll have to be a lone gunman on that one and I could very well be (& probably) wrong. In saying that the JTL thread is full of other such claims but never saw myself or anyone chase those down or demand for links. For record though, there're not a link.

I’ve removed the name of the poster but fairly left field claims were being made with no evidence or factual basis and ultimately it would be hard to believe them considering who JTL’s agent was. Those types of statements appear all the time and are not checked. That's why I think it was personal rather than a verification point on the link for myself.

It only takes one look into the Chris Square or "tailwind" thread to see some fairly bold claims being made and upmost refusal to explain how one comes to their position along with presenting "estimated" as "actual". I saw lots of good information presented on both sides of the argument and some in between but again you see this same steadfast and refusal to consider other posters views. That’s why at times there’s conflict. Because when one gets locked into one position and won’t budge even when data and information could potentially change that stance it results in the exhaustion of other posters because its no longer a discussion. That's clogging.

I witnessed MarkW personally insulted for holding the views that he did on SCA & Birotte and largely he’s been proven right on the position he took along with Wallance & Gromit. Birotte is then appointed a Federal Judge and there’s silence and the SCA case drags on for more months/years with no immediate end in sight.

I don’t bring all of this up to point fingers but to mealy state it’s not all one way traffic. We’re all guilty of it including myself.

The other part is still nobody has bothered to discuss the 10-14 day claim of the UKAD, which I raised. If true discussion and debate was the priority, surely you'd get stuck into that point? It's just left. That's disappointing. You might think I'm an idiot but at least I look the data and ask some questions. Sometimes that results in incorrect statements but it produces debate and provides energy to the forum. That I believe is a good thing.

Alas, I think it's all time to move. I've moved on and hope this helps and that you choose to post here more often without the fear of me being a d1ck.

Finally, maybe we all should laugh a little. You have to admit ProCycling is a fairly mental sport. We all shouldn't take it so seriously.

Best, theHog.

He was target tested at and after the Tour of Britain. I do not see any mention of a Biopassport violation, maybe it is his Offscore? They can also use his tests from 2012, in combination with BP tests from 2013, and show a pattern of manipulation

While it would not surprise me if JTL was doping it would also not surprise me if he was targeted. Pat is a vindictive guy. All of his critics are targets

Sky is an essentially an extension of British cycling. Cookson is Pat's biggest critic. Garmin and Katusha were Pat's targets

It has always been Pat's M.O. to go after someone who he perceives as having limited ability to protect himself.

Then gone without comment;

The UCI last week gave the 2012 Tour of Britain winner three weeks to respond to its written request and his agent, Andrew McQuaid

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

*Snipped for brevity*
Finally, maybe we all should laugh a little. You have to admit ProCycling is a fairly mental sport. We all shouldn't take it so seriously.

Good post Hog.

 

[mewmewmew13]

gheezus
life goes on in other parts of the universe..

 

[BroDeal]

Folks, this is the moderators thread.

Would it not be nice if there was a thread where people could air general grievances about the forum. Gee, what would such a thread be called? Too bad no one ever thought of starting a thread like that.

@Spud, Hog's free to back it up if he wishes (we can't really force him too). But until he does we can safely assume the claims were not true.

As soon as the Hog gets back, Sitting Bison begins posting to the JTL thread, trying to start up what led to his last massacre, and doing it with his usual smirking end of post that mocks the Hog. It is obvious that SB is trying to goad Hog into responding.

So where is the same concern for links and sources when it comes to RR? Making a few accusations about JTL seems like minor stuff compared to the accusations leveled at Joe Papp.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Originally Posted by BroDeal View Post
Maybe he can post that right after RR posts proof that Armstrong getting his picture taken while watching a race is part of a vast conspiracy. He can follow that up with proof of his charges against Joe Papp that damaged the forum.

Please can you not drag me in to a dispute between you and RR. I only asked because the mods said he should respond when he was back, just not sure if that was to be public or not.

OK so BroDeal has become a huge d!(kh0le, but that post was just made to disappear with no explanation? Where is that an approved measure in Better Modding 101. Either the post was acceptable or it was not acceptable because..................
BroDeal has not been right much lately but I am beginning to come around to his viewpoint re. how much this place has begun to suck. If it was "off topic" then why is the post he responded to still up?

 

[sniper]

Folks, this is the moderators thread.

@Spud, Hog's free to back it up if he wishes (we can't really force him too). But until he does we can safely assume the claims were not true.

how is lack of evidence evidence of the contrary?
wasn't it clear from the start theHog made something of an educated guess (disguised as an affirmation).
if he can't back it up, it's still an educated guess that might have truth in it.

 

[TheSpud]

Folks, this is the moderators thread.

@Spud, Hog's free to back it up if he wishes (we can't really force him too). But until he does we can safely assume the claims were not true.

Thank you Afrank. To be honest I wasn't sure whether to post here or in the JTL thread, I chose here since the last mention of the matter was from a Mod (albeit in the JTL thread).

I see TheHog has posted here after your one so I consider my query answered.

 

[sittingbison]

...As soon as the Hog gets back, Sitting Bison begins posting to the JTL thread, trying to start up what led to his last massacre, and doing it with his usual smirking end of post that mocks the Hog. It is obvious that SB is trying to goad Hog into responding...

as far from the truth as its possible to be

 

[MarkvW]

as far from the truth as its possible to be

Engaging in a 'one on one' discussion as a mod (emphasis yours) with thehog in the middle of a thread about JTL.

BroDeal has this just about right.

 

[thehog]

Meanwhile in the Qui Tam case.....Oh $hit

News???

Links???

Say more.

Dave.

I like to see the humour in most things, I'm not so serious and certainly don't expect mod intervention on this one. But one has to laugh at this attempt to derail a thread when one doesn't like the way it's turning.

It's blatant and obvious. I assume the request for links will be forthcoming?

I jest, I really do. Because the OP is really saying absolutely nothing at all. Just stirring a pot. But in a sense I see it as baiting. Not baiting the likes of myself but those who are looking for news updates. Because truth to be told, there is no real update. It's just one poster attempting to move the flow of discussion in a different direction with a foreboding message of pending doom.

I guess I bring it up because it's a prime example of conflict generation, clogging and baiting. And back to my earlier point that this is not one way traffic. And I would expect my peers to be held to the same standards that I am.

Links?

 

[Granville57]

I like to see the humour in most things, I'm not so serious and certainly don't expect mod intervention on this one. But one has to laugh at this attempt to derail a thread when one doesn't like the way it's turning.

I believe the word you're looking for is "spinning."

 

[the sceptic]

bro is right, the clinic is dying.

the only reason why it is still somewhat relevant is because the alternatives suck even more.

 

[Benotti69]

bro is right, the clinic is dying.

the only reason why it is still somewhat relevant is because the alternatives suck even more.

yes it is and yes the alternatives are horrendous...

But who is at fault? The mods?

I think it goes a bit deeper and is more complex than that.

I dont get why posters who pay no membership fee to post here have a go at people who are not paid and who try to moderate cycling fans, a bunch of people who i dont consider the sanest bunch in tifosi world.....

Too many bots ( deluded fans, bitter Lance fans and interns) disrupt the clinic and makes it extremely difficult for mods.

At present the clinic has been swamped by what appear to be returning sockpuppets who turn up in the middle of discussions like they were there all along.......

 

[Dear Wiggo]

At present the clinic has been swamped by what appear to be returning sockpuppets who turn up in the middle of discussions like they were there all along.......

Yeah the familiarity seems really dodgy at times.

 

[the sceptic]

yes it is and yes the alternatives are horrendous...

But who is at fault? The mods?

I think it goes a bit deeper and is more complex than that.

I dont get why posters who pay no membership fee to post here have a go at people who are not paid and who try to moderate cycling fans, a bunch of people who i dont consider the sanest bunch in tifosi world.....

Too many bots ( deluded fans, bitter Lance fans and interns) disrupt the clinic and makes it extremely difficult for mods.

At present the clinic has been swamped by what appear to be returning sockpuppets who turn up in the middle of discussions like they were there all along.......

I dont think the moderators should be above criticism. They could easily be replaced by other posters who could do a much better job. Im sure someone else would volunteer. Its not like they are curing cancer here.

The returning bots should get banned right away instead of being allowed to post for months. Its not hard to spot them, you can usually tell within a few posts. Sometimes its even easy to figure out who their previous account was. But hey, its more imporatant to ban the posters that actually contribute something to the clinic I guess.

 

[Netserk]

I dont think the moderators should be above criticism. They could easily be replaced by other posters who could do a much better job. Im sure someone else would volunteer. Its not like they are curing cancer here.

The returning bots should get banned right away instead of being allowed to post for months. Its not hard to spot them, you can usually tell within a few posts. Sometimes its even easy to figure out who their previous account was. But hey, its more imporatant to ban the posters that actually contribute something to the clinic I guess.

Yeah the line is really long....