Moderators

[ChrisE]

So, the LA thread gets shut down because JR says Texpat is a drug mule for driving LA around to meet Ferrari?

The thread gets shut down because of this? Seriously?

 

[palmerq]

So, the LA thread gets shut down because JR says Texpat is a drug mule for driving LA around to meet Ferrari?

The thread gets shut down because of this? Seriously?

no, I think the whole thread has got a bit stupid and francois the postman has temporarily closed to to calm it down a wee bit and give him a chance to clean it.

 

[TexPat]

That's great. I'd like any post or quote referring to me as a drug mule or fixer for LA removed as well.

 

[python]

no, I think the whole thread has got a bit stupid and francois the postman has temporarily closed to to calm it down a wee bit and give him a chance to clean it.

pretending not knowing why the thread was shutdown is either being blind - several clear mod warnings were posted - or
the usual baiting of the mods. yet ignoring that a libelous statement was made agaist the forum rules i quoted in another thread, is again an intentional deflection.

 

[palmerq]

pretending not knowing why the thread was shutdown is either being blind - several clear mod warnings were posted - or
the usual baiting of the mods. yet ignoring that a libelous statement was made agaist the forum rules i quoted in another thread, is again an intentional deflection.

i dont understand :S

 

[python]

may be texpat can explain...

 

[Race Radio]

Posters always wonder why someone suddenly floods the thread with posts, baiting, and false claims.....now you know. His goal was to make it unreadable and cause chaos. He achieved his goal. The moderators are trying to be as fair and impartial as possible but sometimes it is too obvious.

Smearing people like Mike is part of the game. Betsy is fat and bitter, Floyd is a crazy drunk, etc. Anyone remember when a moderator on DPF wrote that Steffen was fired because he was a junkie?

So calling an obvious troll a troll is bad but calling Mike a drug mule is what?

 

[BroDeal]

So calling an obvious troll a troll is bad but calling Mike a drug mule is what?

Just another day in the life within the CN mod regime. Kim Jong-un should come here for lessons.

 

[palmerq]

errr francois the postman will be looking through the thread tonight(he volunteered) and reviewing it and cleaning it out, that's why it's closed :S So I think maybe wait untill he finished before making your final judgements

 

[Martin318is]

Just another day in the life within the CN mod regime. Kim Jong-un should come here for lessons.

Grow up.

There is no 'regime'. What there is is a collection of volunteers who have real lives and are not necessarily in a position to take the time to edit/delete posts at the drop of a hat. Clearly action is being taken at the moment.

 

[Race Radio]

Just another day in the life within the CN mod regime. Kim Jong-un should come here for lessons.

I certainly would not go that far. To be fair the mods are put in an impossible situation. It is like herding cats

 

[Martin318is]

Something that probably needs to be reaffirmed at this point as I have seen a few very very dumb 'insider' comments on the topic from people who clearly have no idea:

The "Interesting... LA" thread was not created because CN has a position on either side of the conversation. CN and the mods are neither pro, nor anti-LA overall (obviously we all have our own personal opinions but there is no single mod position) and definitely have no focus regarding the number of hits the thread generates etc. Yes hits gain advertising dollars but to my knowledge there has been no analysis put on the benefits of one thread over another and certainly not on one type of topic or another. (I agree that it should and will eventually happen - just hasnt been a driver yet)

The reason the thread exists is that when the site was winding up to speed, the myriad of LA threads and baiting posts etc came very close to destroying the place for anyone that wasn't wanting to get into an LA conversation. It exists ONLY to pull all the LA discussion into one place.

As we are not that interested, the majority of mods dont spend much time in the thread on our own time. The mods are very busy with the rest of the forum and will often not be on top of what is happening in the LA thread until a complaint is raised. This means that we have to go back a few posts to see what the catalyst was and deal with that. In the current case, Francois felt the easiest thing for him was to pause the conversation while he unpicked it. It will be reopened when he is done.

 

[Berzin]

There isn't anything to be added to the LA thread until the grand jury finishes it's investigation. Nothing of any substance has happened that we know of for a very long time.

All you have are people desperate to fight with those who already believe he's guilty, and the ensuing back-and-forth nitpicking.

I wonder what exactly does that accomplish. Do people really need a place to vent so badly that the mods can't close the thread until the Feds are ready to roll on whomever they're going to roll on?

 

[Race Radio]

Something that probably needs to be reaffirmed at this point as I have seen a few very very dumb 'insider' comments on the topic from people who clearly have no idea:

The "Interesting... LA" thread was not created because CN has a position on either side of the conversation. CN and the mods are neither pro, nor anti-LA overall (obviously we all have our own personal opinions but there is no single mod position) and definitely have no focus regarding the number of hits the thread generates etc. Yes hits gain advertising dollars but to my knowledge there has been no analysis put on the benefits of one thread over another and certainly not on one type of topic or another. (I agree that it should and will eventually happen - just hasnt been a driver yet)

The reason the thread exists is that when the site was winding up to speed, the myriad of LA threads and baiting posts etc came very close to destroying the place for anyone that wasn't wanting to get into an LA conversation. It exists ONLY to pull all the LA discussion into one place.

As we are not that interested, the majority of mods dont spend much time in the thread on our own time. The mods are very busy with the rest of the forum and will often not be on top of what is happening in the LA thread until a complaint is raised. This means that we have to go back a few posts to see what the catalyst was and deal with that. In the current case, Francois felt the easiest thing for him was to pause the conversation while he unpicked it. It will be reopened when he is done.

I would not limit the focus to just that thread. When the troll is fishing they will drop bait all over the forum

 

[Martin318is]

I would not limit the focus to just that thread. When the troll is fishing they will drop bait all over the forum

You can certainly assume that in cases where someone has attracted attention from a moderator, the mods review their other posts around the time that one was done. We do this to see if it is a one off or part of a wider 'vent' on the forum, for instance.

 

[Race Radio]

You can certainly assume that in cases where someone has attracted attention from a moderator, the mods review their other posts around the time that one was done. We do this to see if it is a one off or part of a wider 'vent' on the forum, for instance.

It is important to note this is not a Pro/Anti issue. The issue is the attempt to disrupt the forum, cause chaos, and make it unreadable.

I have no problem with somebody having a different view then I, in fact I welcome it as it makes the discussion interesting. There are multiple posters on the board who I have opposing views but am able to converse with. I often exchange PM's with those I disagree with and I always feel that I can reach out to them in a rational way. That was clearly not the case with the recent case.

The board becomes unmanageable when a poster floods it. When he baits others, either through invention or obfuscation, it only enhances the chaos.

As you say, the Mods do not follow the Armstrong thread. Those that do can easily see when a banned user returns to flood the thread with the same obfuscation.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

So, the LA thread gets shut down because JR says Texpat is a drug mule for driving LA around to meet Ferrari?

Firstly - driving someone around, even Armstrong or Ferrari- does not make someone a "drug mule".

The thread gets shut down because of this? Seriously?

Actually, if that was the reason (libel) then I may have agreed with it - however the reason it was shut-down was that JRTs comments had provoked a response - and rather than admit their mistake, apologize or even back up their claim the poster maintained their view.
Their continued stance is why the mods stepped in.

 

[Francois the Postman]

4 points:

- I am wading through the last 555 posts in that thread, and I have found exactly one interesting "new" bit, the link you supplied. Thanks.

- a troll is only as efficient as there are people willing to take the bait. Of which you are one, and frequently near the head of that parade. At times this has revealed a known troll (earlier), at times you have been utterly wrong in your accusation, targeting legit posters. But almost without fail: usually it derails threads for pages on end, and people get dragged in from all sides into this shouting match. There is a flaw in your argument that you adopt this attitude to stop trolls, and "everyone really involved can spot them a mile off", as you and some others do this by creating the sort of noise and derailment that the troll (if it is one) would actually be aiming for, page after page. It is with stunning regularity that the only people I find at the centre of a troll call (rightly or wrongly) are a handful of posters going full throttle. Maybe that isn't the best way to lessen "their impact" after all, as the unmasking of some does come at a price to all as well?

If it is so clear, ignore, report and let us look into it. In the very recent past we have looked into several reports, and if people are kept "on board", it is because we either

a) are not convinced (enough) (yet)
b) have very very string indicators, if not outright proof, that the accusation is false
c) haven't had time to do so, but will do so at the earliest opportunity
d) are wrong, in which case it is likely to be rectified fairly quickly

Also, if you engage a troll too easily, they can get their desired effect by hanging out very little that will get them hanged. If "our" folk are less likely to take the easy bait, the troll will have to get more outrageous for effect, making it sooo much easier to nail them. Sometimes some of you make our work harder by becoming too entrenched too quickly, or (at times) so committed in finding the weak spot that it can really be tricky to figure out who is trolling who more.

- I will get back to the thread in question. That we don't follow it closely from post to post doesn't make those that are in it experts on spotting a troll, or have a brilliant way of dealing with them. It also ignores the fact that we have access to much more info about posters than those in the thread, so even if we don't follow it up close, once alerted to a poster, we will probably be in a much much better position to come to an informed opinion about the validity of the claim than any of you going "on instinct". And we really don't want to turf off people, or bully away, those who are misidentified, or have simply an "unconventional by clinic standards" alternate point of view (sometimes reasonable well argued too).

- the way this forum operates and is moderated has some weak spots. That it relies on complimentary interaction between alerts and a handful of volunteer mods is one of those, as there are obvious "dark spots" in the system as a result.

 

[Francois the Postman]

Everyone, stop that drug mule stuff.

 

[Francois the Postman]

Actually, if that was the reason (libel) then I may have agreed with it - however the reason it was shut-down was that JRTs comments had provoked a response - and rather than admit their mistake, apologize or even back up their claim the poster maintained their view.
Their continued stance is why the mods stepped in.

Your speculation is wrong (or better: seriously incomplete), that is not why I shut it down. It was shut because a whole stack of issues piling up rapidly, over a few days, that were now all being dealt with or looked at. Instead of being given time to do that in, people were adding more problems and responses "by the post", despite several moderators flagging clearly they were

a) fed up with that behaviour
b) looking at the thread and the issues
c) instructing people to get back on topic (only) fast

If something stretches over dozens of pages and with several issues intertwined, it takes some unpicking, all the more if we need to discuss it over global time zones that cover the planet, and also look at some posters' backgrounds in detail. Sure, that accusation is part of this, but there is a lot more that "needs doing or looked at". If you want us to at least try to do a decent and fair job.

Since none of the mods wants to spend their xmas time monitoring that thread post by post, nor do we want to let it derail freely, and the way it is going it is seriously heading those ways, I judged that forcing everyone to go "cold turkey", until we restored that thread to some form of normality, seemed aptly seasonal, and hopefully effective enough too, given that asking the participants wasn't giving us any breathing room, rather the opposite.

Sorry you're all missing a few hours of Lance time as a consequence, but I am sure we'll all survive that one.

 

[Cobblestoned]

That's great. I'd like any post or quote referring to me as a drug mule or fixer for LA removed as well.

Mr. Anderson, you could have shown just a minimum of respect and grown-up mentality, by just answering my PM, which included a very friendly explanation and possible excuse ( for whatever, for quoting details out of your testimony which said "and other bullsh**"), and it even included honest Xmas wishes and everything.
Now I don't even know if you were really offended and if that infraction and putting me in a line with JJRT's comment was justified.
Bitterness seems strong on that "good" side, which would somehow match with some of my thoughts, would fit like a fist on an eye, like we say in germany.

Possibility 2:
Or you simply have me on ignore (which would be like supporting the three apes, and missing the greatest posts eva), and don't know what I am talking about, neither recieving my friendly PM.
I was told to solve such things per PM and have nothing against Mr. Anderson.
Why should I ? I am still on the ground, you know, and grown up.
At least I tried and have shown a minimum of respect. A world full of misunderstandings.
So, if you have me on ignore, then just forget it. That even excludes the possibility that you were offended by my post and we could start the circle again.

At least people and mods now know that I tried and that I am not that bad.

MerryXmas anyway, to TexPat, all the mods and all the users.

 

[Granville57]

MerryXmas anyway, to TexPat, all the mods and all the users.

I think there was just a bit of confusion in the sea of chaos that was building in that thread. I can verify what I think it is that Cobblestoned is expressing. There was an open complaint about you based on an "insulting" post. But that member may have been referring to one of your earlier posts that had been "Edited by mod. Reason: insulting." They may not have been referring to your post directed at TexPat. So there may be some confusion there.

Or perhaps they just misunderstood the humor in your post to TexPat (because the thread was really heating up at that point). I clearly remember your post and realized that you were making a joke in the first part but maybe the second part was simply misunderstood (the wording in the second part was a bit confusing to me as well). I think it was just the timing of your post that may have mistakenly put you in the same group with JRT. Moving forward, all should be good.

Peace.

 

[Cobblestoned]

I think there was just a bit of confusion in the sea of chaos that was building in that thread. I can verify what I think it is that Cobblestoned is expressing. There was an open complaint about you based on an "insulting" post. But that member may have been referring to one of your earlier posts that had been "Edited by mod. Reason: insulting." They may not have been referring to your post directed at TexPat. So there may be some confusion there.

Or perhaps they just misunderstood the humor in your post to TexPat (because the thread was really heating up at that point). I clearly remember your post and realized that you were making a joke in the first part but maybe the second part was simply misunderstood (the wording in the second part was a bit confusing to me as well). I think it was just the timing of your post that may have mistakenly put you in the same group with JRT. Moving forward, all should be good.

Peace.

Peace.
I think you are 99% correct.
But the user you are talking about exactly rolled in with calling for me banned forever, questioning the mods and my existence in forum, based on my post to TexPat. Because he didn't get what I was referring to and thought that I was calling TexPat's work "bulsh**" and other things.
Martin came with his infraction just a few seconds later. I guess after that user complained. Don't even know if TexPat complained about my joke. Second part (chamois trafficing) even was more joking about JRT, than about Mike.

The digging user then later formed a post, placing me right next to JRT, and some of his friends applauded in the back.
When I called him out for that, to detail the problem in my post to TexPat, he highlighted an earlier post, where I was answering thehog and just painting a picture. That post was completely moderated, and perhaps even correct to do so, if you are thinskinned. While this was still a mild one compared to other things still there.

All what the digging user achieved, was causing confusion and leaving an even bader picture of me behind, after he dissapeared in silence and never answered my question, or even taking back what he did and said.

 

[ChrisE]

I don't really remember all of this about you cobblestoned. I drink alot so that may be the issue. I told you I went to Munich and Fussen this summer, right? Those beer gardens in Munich are like xmas morning for somebody like me. Germany would be the death of me if I lived there....what a cool place.

I only remember what JRT wrote and the outrage. Of course I remember RR shouting people down which is his MO, and doc boring people to death with his petty war on nuance.

Who was the "digging user"?

On a side note, it is good the moderators are starting to see how much of the problems on this forum are caused by the haters, shouting down and derailing threads when somebody disagrees with their opinions. While, in the background they are whining to the mods and usually their whines are acted upon.

Yes, I cannot wait for the indictments to fall and trials to begin so we can see who is right here with all of these "opinions". I will be big enough to admit if I am ultimately wrong, but doubtful they are.

 

[TexPat]

If I were to attempt taking part in a debate on a German forum, I'm sure that countless misunderstandings would arise from my poor grasp of that language. In that vein, I'll offer you the benefit of the doubt.
However, your tone and aim within the discussion have long been things that I find disagreeable, and as such I have implemented the ignore feature for a long time. This explains why I didn't receive your pm.

Be that as it may, I feel as a native speaker of English, as well as a student of Rhetoric, that I should offer advice to you, sir, regarding the way you form your arguments (or apologies for that matter). Don't begin with an insult.

Perhaps you are not as grown up as you think you are. It is clear that showing respect to others on the forum, myself included, is lacking.

I intend to leave the matter at that, but will not remain silent if someone slanders or libels me.


Mike Anderson

Mr. Anderson, you could have shown just a minimum of respect and grown-up mentality, by just answering my PM, which included a very friendly explanation and possible excuse ( for whatever, for quoting details out of your testimony which said "and other bullsh**"), and it even included honest Xmas wishes and everything.
Now I don't even know if you were really offended and if that infraction and putting me in a line with JJRT's comment was justified.
Bitterness seems strong on that "good" side, which would somehow match with some of my thoughts, would fit like a fist on an eye, like we say in germany.

Possibility 2:
Or you simply have me on ignore (which would be like supporting the three apes, and missing the greatest posts eva), and don't know what I am talking about, neither recieving my friendly PM.
I was told to solve such things per PM and have nothing against Mr. Anderson.
Why should I ? I am still on the ground, you know, and grown up.
At least I tried and have shown a minimum of respect. A world full of misunderstandings.
So, if you have me on ignore, then just forget it. That even excludes the possibility that you were offended by my post and we could start the circle again.

At least people and mods now know that I tried and that I am not that bad.

MerryXmas anyway, to TexPat, all the mods and all the users.