Monaco: tax or doping heaven? or both?

[lllludo]

In Froome's interview with Kimmage something sound funny to me.
"The AFLD (the French Anti-Doping Agency) . . . it’s the first time actually that they’ve come."
So what organisation has been testing Froome before that ? Why is AFLD testing in Monaco now ?

I looked at it and found out that Monaco have a NADO: le Comité Monégasque Anti-Dopage. I searched a bit and found out that CMA had carried out 59(!) controls in 2012 (blood-urine) carried out by local docs, for Monaco athletes and residents.
http://www.monacohebdo.mc/11357-dopage -trois-procedures-en-dix-ans-a-monaco

59 controls is not a lot especially if you only look at the high-profile pro riders living in Monaco (Froomey & Richie, Vino in 2012, Gilbert, Hushovd, Roche, Pozzato, Gerrans, Steegmans, Goss ...) to avoid tax, as they say.
There are other athletes such as Djokovic and other tennis players, there's a football team and Monegasque athletes.

Furthermore Monaco is like a village where you know everybody and this proximity can damage the efficiency of anti-doping.
For example if found out that Froome's doc (Stephane Bermon) is a founding member of the CMA (Comité Monégasque Antidopage). It sounds like a potential big conflict of interest.

So I'm wondering: how do the AD controls work in Monaco ? Is CMA a joke ?
Is Monaco a control-free place in Europe like Mt Teide ?

 

[lllludo]

Froome's doc is a member of Monaco's NADO

here's the link. Dr Bermon was mentionned in the JDD article :

http://cloud.gouv.mc/DataWeb/jourmo...25cd0126b188b54bc1256d75004edda7!OpenDocument

 

[Dear Wiggo]

re:taxation: I think you need to live there for a % of the year for a certain period of time (ie years) before you can start claiming the tax benefits. It's not as simple as moving there and getting tax free income.

The info on the local NADO and links between doctors is interesting, and almost par for the course - nice find.

 

[Benotti69]

I doubt anyone test's positive in Monaco, bad for business

 

[GearFiddler]

Just to add something to this, there are a lot of Pros who own small flats and are 'resident' in Monaco to get the 0% income tax benefit but actually 'live' for example in the hills behind Nice. Which must complicate their ADAMS life somewhat...

How exactly that affects testing of them I don't know, but I'd guess it's also worth bearing in mind top athletes aren't home for a huge % of the year when looking at the number of tests. It's not as if there are 15 or so Pros in Monaco for 365 days a year available to be tested.

 

[lllludo]

Yup positives are bad for business and business is important in Monaco.
For example Froome's personal doc, Dr Stéphane Bermon, works at IM2S, a private clinic in Monaco, is a member of the IAAF anticoping committee and gives interviews to explain gene doping is the future of doping:
http://sport24.lefigaro.fr/cyclisme...ites/le-dopage-du-futur-sera-genetique-643836

All this may be good for business but it's also a bit troublesome...

 

[lllludo]

Just to add something to this, there are a lot of Pros who own small flats and are 'resident' in Monaco to get the 0% income tax benefit but actually 'live' for example in the hills behind Nice. Which must complicate their ADAMS life somewhat...

How exactly that affects testing of them I don't know, but I'd guess it's also worth bearing in mind top athletes aren't home for a huge % of the year when looking at the number of tests. It's not as if there are 15 or so Pros in Monaco for 365 days a year available to be tested.

True ! for example Gerrans sometimes is said to live in Monaco, sometimes he
lives near Nice...
However Froome lives in Monaco for real.

Even if they are not at home 59 tests a year (in 2012) for all athletes (not only cyclists) based in Monaco is extremely small !
If on top of of that the controller is your doc or a friend of your doc. It's meaningless...

 

[sniper]

Yup positives are bad for business and business is important in Monaco.
For example Froome's personal doc, Dr Stéphane Bermon, works at IM2S, a private clinic in Monaco, is a member of the IAAF anticoping committee and gives interviews to explain gene doping is the future of doping:
http://sport24.lefigaro.fr/cyclisme...ites/le-dopage-du-futur-sera-genetique-643836

All this may be good for business but it's also a bit troublesome...

since the testing protocols for gene doping have not been finished yet, bermon says it's unlikely that gene doping is already in use among proathletes.
unless...
...the athletes are willing to take unusually high risks

À moins qu’ils n’acceptent de faire courir aux sportifs des risques qui ne seraient jamais admis dans un protocole de recherche.

nah, nobody in procycling would risk their health in return for sportive success, would they?

 

[sniper]

iirc philippe maire lives right between nice and monaco

 

[GearFiddler]

True ! for example Gerrans sometimes is said to live in Monaco, sometimes he
lives near Nice...
However Froome lives in Monaco for real.

Even if they are not at home 59 tests a year (in 2012) for all athletes (not only cyclists) based in Monaco is extremely small !
If on top of of that the controller is your doc or a friend of your doc. It's meaningless...

Especially when you consider that's a blood/urine combo!

 

[GearFiddler]

since the testing protocols for gene doping have not been finished yet, bermon says it's unlikely that gene doping is already in use among proathletes.
unless...
...the athletes are willing to take unusually high risks

nah, nobody in procycling would risk their health in return for sportive success, would they?

Heard some great stories of Pros latching onto Gran Fondos etc whilst training and not being able to follow the lead group

 

[DirtyWorks]

In Froome's interview with Kimmage something sound funny to me.
"The AFLD (the French Anti-Doping Agency) . . . it’s the first time actually that they’ve come."
So what organisation has been testing Froome before that ? Why is AFLD testing in Monaco now ?

It would be the UCI or ASO most likely ordering the test and AFLD just does the collection. There's an outside chance some other actor could order the tests, but very, very unlikely.

59 controls is not a lot especially if you only look at the high-profile pro riders living in Monaco (Froomey & Richie, Vino in 2012, Gilbert, Hushovd, Roche, Pozzato, Gerrans, Steegmans, Goss ...) to avoid tax, as they say.
There are other athletes such as Djokovic and other tennis players, there's a football team and Monegasque athletes.

Yeah, don't read too much into that. For cycling, your NADO is the one from the country that issued your license. Monaco's NADO probably collects for other parties. You won't see those tests listed under Monaco's NADO. 59 isn't many, but lack of testing is a common problem.

For example if found out that Froome's doc (Stephane Bermon) is a founding member of the CMA (Comité Monégasque Antidopage). It sounds like a potential big conflict of interest.

That's about average level conflicts of interest in anti-doping. As long as Zorzoli takes Bermon's call, then it's all good.

 

[lllludo]

It would be the UCI or ASO most likely ordering the test and AFLD just does the collection. There's an outside chance some other actor could order the tests, but very, very unlikely.

Yeah, don't read too much into that. For cycling, your NADO is the one from the country that issued your license. Monaco's NADO probably collects for other parties. You won't see those tests listed under Monaco's NADO. 59 isn't many, but lack of testing is a common problem.
That's about average level conflicts of interest in anti-doping. As long as Zorzoli takes Bermon's call, then it's all good.

can ASO order out competition collections from AFLD ???? I don't think so. Usually in Monaco the collector must be the CMA, Monaco's CMA, or sometimes a collector mandated by UCI.
Sometimes the French police or other organizations can intervene in Monaco because of some treaties but I don't know if it's possible for AFLD & anti-doping.
Imo it's a serious conflict of interest as Froome's doctor (Bermon) is from the organisation that organize the collection. May be he's one of the 7 CMA collectors...
Imagine if Wiggins doc would be a counsultant with UKAD. Normal or not normal ?

 

[Benotti69]

Just to add something to this, there are a lot of Pros who own small flats and are 'resident' in Monaco to get the 0% income tax benefit but actually 'live' for example in the hills behind Nice. Which must complicate their ADAMS life somewhat...

How exactly that affects testing of them I don't know, but I'd guess it's also worth bearing in mind top athletes aren't home for a huge % of the year when looking at the number of tests. It's not as if there are 15 or so Pros in Monaco for 365 days a year available to be tested.

Yes Davide Rebellin was supposed to be resident in Monaco but spent more time in Italy and was caught by the Guardia Di Finanzia and it cost him 2.4millionEuros.

 

[sniper]

can ASO order out competition collections from AFLD ???? I don't think so. Usually in Monaco the collector must be the CMA, Monaco's CMA, or sometimes a collector mandated by UCI.
Sometimes the French police or other organizations can intervene in Monaco because of some treaties but I don't know if it's possible for AFLD & anti-doping.
Imo it's a serious conflict of interest as Froome's doctor (Bermon) is from the organisation that organize the collection. May be he's one of the 7 CMA collectors...
Imagine if Wiggins doc would be a counsultant with UKAD. Normal or not normal ?

the conflict of interest is salient also in light of froome's recent tweet asking for more testing in tenerife.
time for people to wake the **** up.

 

[DirtyWorks]

can ASO order out competition collections from AFLD ???? I don't think so.

Ok, I mixed some things up.

A NADO's job is to act at the direction of an anti-doping authority. ASO directs AFLD to run specific tests on samples based on their budget, wishes. AFLD does as directed and posts results to the bio-passport system. ASO, as the anti-doping authority can then decide how they want to act on results.

Collecting samples is a separate service provided by a few service contractors the world over.

My read of events is ASO got tired of the UCI failing to manage anti-doping controversy and took back the job of anti-doping authority. http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/aso-wants-afld-to-run-testing-at-paris-nice-and-beyond

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/afld-comes-to-agreement-with-uci-over-tour-de-france-tests

In contrast, this is what happens when the UCI is not hiding positives. http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/clerc-calls-on-aso-to-assume-greater-responsibility

One of the consequences of the stand-off was that doping controls at that year’s Tour were organised by the French Anti-Doping Agency (AFLD) and their targeted testing resulted in a spate of positives for EPO-CERA during the race.

 

[lllludo]

it reminds me of Virenque and Jalabert leaving France at the same time for Switzerland "to avoid paying tax" as they said in the media.
The 2 genious were based in a swiss canton with one of the highest tax rate but their move coincided with the period when AFLD decided to set-up blodd passport (when LAnce moved to Girona).
They were out of the french blood passport because the Swiss NADO was organizing their tests and collecting data with little diligence.

Monaco might be the same: athletes can find a ghost NADO and eventually dodgy sports doctors...

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Mainly tax.
There are much better dope places, like Girona.

 

[doperhopper]

it reminds me of Virenque and Jalabert leaving France at the same time for Switzerland "to avoid paying tax" as they said in the media.
The 2 genious were based in a swiss canton with one of the highest tax rate but their move coincided with the period when AFLD decided to set-up blodd passport (when LAnce moved to Girona).
They were out of the french blood passport because the Swiss NADO was organizing their tests and collecting data with little diligence.

Monaco might be the same: athletes can find a ghost NADO and eventually dodgy sports doctors...

How about Nauru? They have good references from money laundering bussiness, should be able to do this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nauru–Russia_relations

 

[lllludo]

How about Nauru? They have good references from money laundering bussiness, should be able to do this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nauru–Russia_relations

Nauru looks great but a bit a far away from the European circuit.
As soon as TDU becomes a real race I'm sure Katusha and other teams will prepare in Nauru though.

 

[sniper]

Mainly tax.
There are much better dope places, like Girona.

with impey we have a 'girona positive' now, so i'm not sure about this.
i personally dont think sky's choice for nice/monaco has much to do with taxes.
by the way, kerrison also lives in monaco.

The plan was first mooted by Brailsford in late 2012 and has developed steadily and unobtrusively since then, with many of Sky's riders moving to the south of France or Monaco – which is, most notably, the home of the 2013 Tour de France winner Chris Froome, and coaches Tim Kerrison and Shaun Stephens.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

with impey we have a 'girona positive' now, so i'm not sure about this.
i personally dont think sky's choice for nice/monaco has much to do with taxes.
by the way, kerrison also lives in monaco.

well, if a team relocates the entire operation, they can probably save 30% costs. I think team Sky is preparing for a sponsor change down the road.

The main reason is tax, but of course when there is a market everything will follow.

 

[lllludo]

with impey we have a 'girona positive' now, so i'm not sure about this.
i personally dont think sky's choice for nice/monaco has much to do with taxes.
by the way, kerrison also lives in monaco.

are you sure Kerrison lives in Monaco ??
So since Julich left last year he's never worked directly with Kerrison ? SKY's star rider live next door to SKY's star coach and they don't work together. That's weird considering Monaco is like a village.

 

[sniper]

are you sure Kerrison lives in Monaco ??

no, not sure. it seems to be the case from that bit i quoted, though.

So since Julich left last year he's never worked directly with Kerrison ? SKY's star rider live next door to SKY's star coach and they don't work together. That's weird considering Monaco is like a village.

agreed, if kerrison does indeed live there, it's another indication that froome is - for whatever reason - not being transparent about his relationship with kerrison.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

are you sure Kerrison lives in Monaco ??

Yep. He lives down the hall from Baden Cooke.

You’re one of many professional cyclists living in Monaco. What’s the camaraderie like in your local bunch?

It’s bloody fantastic! I’ve been here the longest out of all the riders now. [Brad] McGee and I came here together in 2004 and he’s moved on. But my ‘gang’ has sort of turned over a few times — Matty Wilson is gone, Stuey [O’Grady] is gone, and now there are more younger guys like Matt Goss and Michael Matthews.

Just in my building alone there’s Geraint Thomas, [Tim] Kerrison the trainer from Sky, Simon Gerrans and one other guy, and that’s just in our building.

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2013/11/interview-with-baden-cooke/