More lame Russia bashing

[sniper]

The scapegoating of Russia has now extended into women's cycling.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/antoshina-fired-by-astana-womens-team-after-positive-test/
It's just getting too much to stomach. It's annoying, gratuite, and hypocrit. And the 'hidden' agenda is not so hidden, it's pretty darn obvious, imo.

Would love to hear from some actual Russians.
If I were Russian, I'd be furious.

 

[PremierAndrew]

If only Briamir Cooksov was in charge of the UCI. At least their cyclists would be safe

 

[Singer01]

The scapegoating of Russia has now extended into women's cycling.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/antoshina-fired-by-astana-womens-team-after-positive-test/
It's just getting too much to stomach. It's annoying, gratuite, and hypocrit. And the 'hidden' agenda is not so hidden, it's pretty darn obvious, imo.

Would love to hear from some actual Russians.
If I were Russian, I'd be furious.

try wearing tin foil on your head, I've heard it helps.

 

[CheckMyPecs]

It's amazing. So many people who are sceptical of the West (and rightly so) but willing to write a blank moral cheque for Russia.

 

[gazr99]

The scapegoating of Russia has now extended into women's cycling.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/antoshina-fired-by-astana-womens-team-after-positive-test/
It's just getting too much to stomach. It's annoying, gratuite, and hypocrit. And the 'hidden' agenda is not so hidden, it's pretty darn obvious, imo.

Would love to hear from some actual Russians.
If I were Russian, I'd be furious.

Must be a worldwide conspiracy against Russia, with the likes of the IAAF, UCI, ITF, etc all involved

 

[sniper]

The scapegoating of Russia has now extended into women's cycling.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/antoshina-fired-by-astana-womens-team-after-positive-test/
It's just getting too much to stomach. It's annoying, gratuite, and hypocrit. And the 'hidden' agenda is not so hidden, it's pretty darn obvious, imo.

Would love to hear from some actual Russians.
If I were Russian, I'd be furious.

Must be a worldwide conspiracy against Russia, with the likes of the IAAF, UCI, ITF, etc all involved

yeah.
and only astana dopes

 

[gazr99]

The scapegoating of Russia has now extended into women's cycling.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/antoshina-fired-by-astana-womens-team-after-positive-test/
It's just getting too much to stomach. It's annoying, gratuite, and hypocrit. And the 'hidden' agenda is not so hidden, it's pretty darn obvious, imo.

Would love to hear from some actual Russians.
If I were Russian, I'd be furious.

Must be a worldwide conspiracy against Russia, with the likes of the IAAF, UCI, ITF, etc all involved

yeah.
and only astana dopes

Or are just the most frequent/worst at getting past tests. There's been rumours/conspiracies about state sponsored doping programmes in Russia dating back to the Soviet Union days. Don't be shocked that they're now being caught

 

[sniper]

i'm yet to see anybody deny that russia have state-sponsored doping (and have had it since the 50s at least)

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

i'm yet to see anybody deny that russia have state-sponsored doping (and have had it since the 50s at least)

Even Vladimir has not denied it.

 

[sniper]

It's not the positive test that is lame, it's the singularity of the positive test that is lame.

The sudden flood of Russian positives following Stepanov's whistleblowing has been a tad bit obvious, don't you think?

 

[BullsFan22]

The scapegoating of Russia has now extended into women's cycling.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/antoshina-fired-by-astana-womens-team-after-positive-test/
It's just getting too much to stomach. It's annoying, gratuite, and hypocrit. And the 'hidden' agenda is not so hidden, it's pretty darn obvious, imo.

Would love to hear from some actual Russians.
If I were Russian, I'd be furious.

Agreed. If you go to Hajo Seppelt's twitter page/feed, you'll see he can't be bothered to talk anything other than Russian positive tests. If you also go online to Sportschau on ARD, Germany's state owned channel, they have a 'special' category inside the sports section titled 'doping,' and while there are cases of doping being reported on a daily basis from around the world, and ongoing cases like the Operacion Puerto, among others, all they focus on is the Russians. One can also find Thomas de Maizière, Germany's federal minister of the Interior, of the CDU party, saying that the ban on Russian athletes in Rio is welcoming, essentially. This whole Russia bashing, as you say is nothing but political. They also complain about Russia getting the WC in 2018, while forgetting there are wide reports saying that 2006 world cup in Germany was won on bribes as well.

 

[sniper]

Re:

don't you think?

i feel i think the obvious......when aware that there has been state sponsored doping

sanction is a positive step not 'lame'

i do understand your frustration....but surely the way forward is to identify where

similar occurs....

Mark L

The thing is, I think insiders (e.g. WADA) know perfectly well that similar is occurring elsewhere.
They're just not interested in doing anything about it.

And I'd argue "state sponsored" is just one of many kinds of systematic, organized, sponsored doping going on at present.
The problem is Nike cannot be banned from the Olympics.

 

[WillemS]

I think I agree with sniper on this one and I think some people are missing the point.

I don't think sniper is trying to write anyone, let alone Russia, a blind moral card. No, what he's trying to fight is the current hype of singling out Russia while keeping silent or even downplaying the use of doping in "Western" countries. Just look at athletics, to me the Ashenden and Parisotto report is a clear indication of a widespread doping problem that transcends country borders. What did the IAAF do? They started singling out Russia, a country that is currently viewed rather negatively in Western society anyway.

Now, is something seriously wrong in Russia? Probably and I doubt sniper will deny that.

Is Russia the only country with serious doping issues? No.

Now, ask yourself a question, if you want to show the world that you're truly taking anti-doping efforts without hurting your financial situation, i.e., making sure the positives reflects on something else than primarily the sports you're governing, what direction would you go? I'd say go catch some Russians, as the media and the uninformed will mainly focus on Russia instead of the sports or, sometimes, even the individual athletes in question. It's not the IAAF, it's not athletics, it's Russia that's the bad guy.

So, I think sniper is questioning the singling out of Russia and not stating that the positives themselves are one big conspiracy.

 

[veganrob]

Seppelt opened the door for Russia bashing. By busting all the Russians now, WADA, IOC, UCI and all ADA's can make it look like they are doing their jobs and the system works. It is a bunch of BS.

 

[sniper]

thanks Willem, that's an eloquent elaboration and very correct summary.

in fact, all these positive tests seem to suggest that the antodoping tests themselves are actually rather ok, or at least good enough to catch people, i.e. not necessarily lagging behind the PED technology so much, as we often tend to assume.
It seems that when there's a will to catch people, then there's a way to catch people.

As for Seppelt, I'm unsure.
Fwiw, I don't think he himself has a particular anti-Russia agenda.
His history speaks in his favor. He's looked at plenty of non-Russian doping cases previously.
At present, it could be that he's just being pushed by his employer to look further into the Russia case, and *only* the Russia case. The story is obviously so big and multifaceted that I reckon Seppelt could easily spend another 5 or 10 years investigating just this.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Russian athletes dope almost as much as Southern California masters cyclists.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

Russian athletes dope almost as much as Southern California masters cyclists.

What is with all this Southern California bashing?!? What, you think masters in Washington, Michigan and Texas don't dope!?? NONSENSE I TELL YA!!!

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

thanks Willem, that's an eloquent elaboration and very correct summary.

in fact, all these positive tests seem to suggest that the antodoping tests themselves are actually rather ok, or at least good enough to catch people, i.e. not necessarily lagging behind the PED technology so much, as we often tend to assume.
It seems that when there's a will to catch people, then there's a way to catch people.

As for Seppelt, I'm unsure.
Fwiw, I don't think he himself has a particular anti-Russia agenda.
His history speaks in his favor. He's looked at plenty of non-Russian doping cases previously.
At present, it could be that he's just being pushed by his employer to look further into the Russia case, and *only* the Russia case. The story is obviously so big and multifaceted that I reckon Seppelt could easily spend another 5 or 10 years investigating just this.

I think he unsuccessfully ran some doping stories in German sport, but I think he was silenced and perhaps even sued and he stopped, but now that it is Russia, he has all the liberty to do whatever he wants, even trying to smear Russian journalists questioning him:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_6s9v_GoB4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pN7mz2u72I


German subtitles and dubbing in the second one.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Re: Re:

The thing is, I think insiders (e.g. WADA) know perfectly well that similar is occurring elsewhere.
They're just not interested in doing anything about it.

And I'd argue "state sponsored" is just one of many kinds of systematic, organized, sponsored doping going on at present.
The problem is Nike cannot be banned from the Olympics.

Bingo. Here's a fun study. The sports federations' best friend, Martial Saugy, one of the authors on it.

http://www.clinchem.org/content/57/5/762.long

Here's the relevant table: http://www.clinchem.org/content/57/5/762/T2.expansion.html

Countries A, H, and C are beyond suspicious. Let's assume Russia is one of the three. Not a peep about the other two. Never testing positive.

All credit goes to veloclinic for posting this again.

 

[GJB123]

Re: Re:

The thing is, I think insiders (e.g. WADA) know perfectly well that similar is occurring elsewhere.
They're just not interested in doing anything about it.

And I'd argue "state sponsored" is just one of many kinds of systematic, organized, sponsored doping going on at present.
The problem is Nike cannot be banned from the Olympics.

Bingo. Here's a fun study. The sports federations' best friend, Martial Saugy, one of the authors on it.

http://www.clinchem.org/content/57/5/762.long

Here's the relevant table: http://www.clinchem.org/content/57/5/762/T2.expansion.html

Countries A, H, and C are beyond suspicious. Let's assume Russia is one of the three. Not a peep about the other two. Never testing positive.

All credit goes to veloclinic for posting this again.

My guess is that, since it concerns blood doping of sorts, the other two are portably Ethiopia and Kenya and they are definitely on WADA's radar and have escaped full disqualification for the Olympics by a mere whisker.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Re: Re:

My guess is that, since it concerns blood doping of sorts, the other two are portably Ethiopia and Kenya and they are definitely on WADA's radar and have escaped full disqualification for the Olympics by a mere whisker.

No other sports federations banned Russian athletes despite all of them being a part of the same system, RUSADA.

It appears at least a few Russians will compete in IAAF sports anyway.

http://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1039425/iaaf-confirm-rio-2016-eligiblity-of-long-jumper-klishina-as-all-other-russian-applications-reportedly-rejected



I don't know how Kenya and Ethiopia have gotten such special treatment, but, the special treatment continues.

To put an exclamation point on the corruption at the IOC, the Russian lab is testing again, "partially certified" thanks to Craig Reedie. http://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1037620/exclusive-moscow-laboratory-reaccredited-by-wada-to-carry-out-blood-testing

The broader point being Russia took advantage of an international system that is at least okay with doping and corruption. In this sense, per the title of this thread, it isn't fair to single out Russia.

 

[Cookster15]

Its not lame Russia bashing. Sure other (Western) nations might be cheating but if they are they are being smart about it. The Russians are making it pretty obvious. Note Russia withdrew their own walking team from Rio for fear they would be a "national disgrace" due to widespread doping allegations. I am quite sure the Russians would be pointing fingers at other countries being as bad or worse if they felt anyone would believe them.

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/athletics/russia-withdraw-walkers-en-masse-over-doping-20150716-giebae.html

 

[Cookster15]

Re: Re:

My guess is that, since it concerns blood doping of sorts, the other two are portably Ethiopia and Kenya and they are definitely on WADA's radar and have escaped full disqualification for the Olympics by a mere whisker.

No other sports federations banned Russian athletes despite all of them being a part of the same system, RUSADA.

It appears at least a few Russians will compete in IAAF sports anyway.

http://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1039425/iaaf-confirm-rio-2016-eligiblity-of-long-jumper-klishina-as-all-other-russian-applications-reportedly-rejected



I don't know how Kenya and Ethiopia have gotten such special treatment, but, the special treatment continues.

To put an exclamation point on the corruption at the IOC, the Russian lab is testing again, "partially certified" thanks to Craig Reedie. http://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1037620/exclusive-moscow-laboratory-reaccredited-by-wada-to-carry-out-blood-testing

The broader point being Russia took advantage of an international system that is at least okay with doping and corruption. In this sense, per the title of this thread, it isn't fair to single out Russia.

Kenya and Ethiopia have gotten such special treatment because they are seen like underdogs - good for the Olympics. But the recent progression of the Men's Marathon and 10,000 metres records suggests they have caught up on the best "methods". 2-03 Marathons were inconceivable in the 80s. Sub 3 min / km for 42km is what happens when supremely naturally gifted runners get access to western "methods".

 

[Starstruck]

I can't get enough of the evil Russians. They should make a breakfast cereal.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

Its not lame Russia bashing. Sure other (Western) nations might be cheating but if they are they are being smart about it. The Russians are making it pretty obvious. Note Russia withdrew their own walking team from Rio for fear they would be a "national disgrace" due to widespread doping allegations. I am quite sure the Russians would be pointing fingers at other countries being as bad or worse if they felt anyone would believe them.

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/athletics/russia-withdraw-walkers-en-masse-over-doping-20150716-giebae.html

"Might" be an understatement. Let set aside the Kenyans, Ethiopians, Jamaicans, Turks, Mexicans, Chinese, etc and focus on the Western countries, specifically the US, specifically the track and field team(s). Why hasn't anything been done regarding the track and field doping in the US? Before you say, 'well, because it's not systematic like it is in Russia...' know that one, we don't know if it is or isn't systematic, we just know it happens. Sure, people like Gatlin, Gay, Jones, etc have been busted and served the suspensions they were given, but so have the Russians, at least those that have been caught. Yet, it's the Russians who aren't welcomed in Rio because they 'don't play by the rules,' as it were. On one other hand, if it's absolutely 100% true that the government is pushing for mass doping of its pro/olympic athletes, then sanctions do need to be put in place, but on the other hand, if systematic doping doesn't take place in countries like the US, and anti-doping is 'supposedly' enforced, yet many still go out of their way to cheat, it may look worse. If you don't have any rules and regulations, then the likelihood of everyone playing by any rules or regulations is unlikely, no matter the country, but if there are rules and regulations in place, and doping still happens, yet there are holier than thou anti-doping heroes going around telling everyone how evil it is to dope, then there is a problem and double standards in play.