More lame Russia bashing

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Russia just simply hasn't moved on since the fall of communism, cheating is deeply ingrained and until there's a change of regime they'll just deny everything. It is fairly clear that Russia has been cheating at state level since the late 1960's, they weren't the only ones, all of the other Eastern European countries were at it too, The GDR were the absolute masters of cheating their way to Olympic medals. I'm sure Russia will kick and scream and remind us all they have nuclear weapons but a 12 month ban from all international sport should send out a message that cheating won't be tolerated. I'd say the same if any other country had a state sponsored doping program.

Pete

This specific program started in 2010 after the Russians had a very bad olympics. Before that, I don't think the government was so involved.

In Russia the government is and was always involved.

 

[Benotti69]

Elenaor Oldroyd, as British as they come, tweeted

Eleanor Oldroyd ‏@EllyOldroyd 2 hours ago

Grt point by @RogerBlack400 @bbc5live. GB had a bad Games in 96: set up Nat Lottery. Russia had a bad one in '10: set up a doping programme.

As if National Lottery money never got spent on doping! What a joke!

Clean Nat lottery money can beat government doping program? Nope!

 

[BYOP88]

Re:

Elenaor Oldroyd, as British as they come, tweeted

Eleanor Oldroyd ‏@EllyOldroyd 2 hours ago

Grt point by @RogerBlack400 @bbc5live. GB had a bad Games in 96: set up Nat Lottery. Russia had a bad one in '10: set up a doping programme.

As if National Lottery money never got spent on doping! What a joke!

Clean Nat lottery money can beat government doping program? Nope!

Sure as hell wasn't spent on doorbells!

 

[Benotti69]

Question of the day: If Russian sport is doped to the gills, how come Katusha are a bunch of also rans?

 

[ToreBear]

Re:

Question of the day: If Russian sport is doped to the gills, how come Katusha are a bunch of also rans?

Because cycling licenses can't dope.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Question of the day: If Russian sport is doped to the gills, how come Katusha are a bunch of also rans?

Because cycling licenses can't dope.

Since when?

 

[ToreBear]

Re: Re:

Question of the day: If Russian sport is doped to the gills, how come Katusha are a bunch of also rans?

Because cycling licenses can't dope.

Since when?

Since forever. I've never heard of business license doping. Have you?

 

[JackRabbitSlims]

Russia Hid 312 Positive Drug Tests.....at least!!

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11677024

 

[JackRabbitSlims]

Table Tennis.....LOL!!

How the F#$K is that in the Olympics in the first place???

Darts and Snooker to be next?

 

[JetSet]

Re: Re:

Russia just simply hasn't moved on since the fall of communism, cheating is deeply ingrained and until there's a change of regime they'll just deny everything. It is fairly clear that Russia has been cheating at state level since the late 1960's, they weren't the only ones, all of the other Eastern European countries were at it too, The GDR were the absolute masters of cheating their way to Olympic medals. I'm sure Russia will kick and scream and remind us all they have nuclear weapons but a 12 month ban from all international sport should send out a message that cheating won't be tolerated. I'd say the same if any other country had a state sponsored doping program.

Pete

Not all Eastern European countries. At least not all that weren't part of the Warsaw pact.

Well, most of Eastern Europe was in The Warsaw Pact, only exceptions would be Albania and Yugoslavia, neither of which won more than a couple of token medals during the height of doping in the 80's. The Soviet Union, GDR , Romania, Bulgaria and Czechoslovakia were the worst, Hungary and Poland probably less so. Not to say that other countries were clean, many drug positives were covered up in The States right through the 80's.

Pete

 

[JetSet]

Re: Re:

Russia just simply hasn't moved on since the fall of communism, cheating is deeply ingrained and until there's a change of regime they'll just deny everything. It is fairly clear that Russia has been cheating at state level since the late 1960's, they weren't the only ones, all of the other Eastern European countries were at it too, The GDR were the absolute masters of cheating their way to Olympic medals. I'm sure Russia will kick and scream and remind us all they have nuclear weapons but a 12 month ban from all international sport should send out a message that cheating won't be tolerated. I'd say the same if any other country had a state sponsored doping program.

Pete

Lol, you watch too much British state propaganda. Obviously, Russia operated a state-sponsored doping programme (it is well known fact), just like UK. So many british cheater: Farah, Radcliffe, Ennis, Wiggins, Frome, Murray, rowers, track cycling etc and the UK government definitely are involved (cover up ....) As for nukes, Russians/Soviets are reminded your country only once. When you guys invaded Egypt and began to kill people there. The Russians definitely wiser than americans. They don't nuke people just for lulz, just like the yankees did in japan.

In this country we don't have state run and state controlled media like Russia and The BBC while state funded is the most respected News Media outlet in The World. Of course, I'm well aware that foreigners are skeptical of Britains recent success but we are a country of 60 million people so you would expect a sport mad country to produce a few world class athletes. As far as your child like political comments they're frankly not worth commenting on.

Pete

 

[sheisdisaster]

Re: Re:

Russia just simply hasn't moved on since the fall of communism, cheating is deeply ingrained and until there's a change of regime they'll just deny everything. It is fairly clear that Russia has been cheating at state level since the late 1960's, they weren't the only ones, all of the other Eastern European countries were at it too, The GDR were the absolute masters of cheating their way to Olympic medals. I'm sure Russia will kick and scream and remind us all they have nuclear weapons but a 12 month ban from all international sport should send out a message that cheating won't be tolerated. I'd say the same if any other country had a state sponsored doping program.

Pete

Lol, you watch too much British state propaganda. Obviously, Russia operated a state-sponsored doping programme (it is well known fact), just like UK. So many british cheater: Farah, Radcliffe, Ennis, Wiggins, Frome, Murray, rowers, track cycling etc and the UK government definitely are involved (cover up ....) As for nukes, Russians/Soviets are reminded your country only once. When you guys invaded Egypt and began to kill people there. The Russians definitely wiser than americans. They don't nuke people just for lulz, just like the yankees did in japan.

In this country we don't have state run and state controlled media like Russia and The BBC while state funded is the most respected News Media outlet in The World. Of course, I'm well aware that foreigners are skeptical of Britains recent success but we are a country of 60 million people so you would expect a sport mad country to produce a few world class athletes. As far as your child like political comments they're frankly not worth commenting on.

Pete

:lol: :lol: :lol:

The membership of the BBC Trust is entirely selected by the Queen & UK government. Over 70% of UK’s papers owned by three companies, over 80% of national audience share goes to Murdoch or BBC.

You sounds like average english dude.

Your government makes sure you get the worst education. It is easier to brainwash people.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re: Re:

Russia just simply hasn't moved on since the fall of communism, cheating is deeply ingrained and until there's a change of regime they'll just deny everything. It is fairly clear that Russia has been cheating at state level since the late 1960's, they weren't the only ones, all of the other Eastern European countries were at it too, The GDR were the absolute masters of cheating their way to Olympic medals. I'm sure Russia will kick and scream and remind us all they have nuclear weapons but a 12 month ban from all international sport should send out a message that cheating won't be tolerated. I'd say the same if any other country had a state sponsored doping program.

Pete

Not all Eastern European countries. At least not all that weren't part of the Warsaw pact.

Well, most of Eastern Europe was in The Warsaw Pact, only exceptions would be Albania and Yugoslavia, neither of which won more than a couple of token medals during the height of doping in the 80's. The Soviet Union, GDR , Romania, Bulgaria and Czechoslovakia were the worst, Hungary and Poland probably less so. Not to say that other countries were clean, many drug positives were covered up in The States right through the 80's.

Pete

I am from the former Yugoslavia. Yugoslavia was, as you rightly said, wasn't a Soviet satellite. There was some state funding for sports, but not to the extent of the Soviets and others, thought how much I don't know personally. I know that sports and individual athletes were very respected there, and still are. I believe that foreigners, Easterners and Westerners alike respected Yugoslavia in world of sport, particularly team sports, where it often competed for medals, in basketball against the Soviets, Americans, Italians, water polo, handball, football (soccer), volleyball, etc. If you look at the medals, Yugoslavia had a good number of medals, particularly in said team events, but also wrestling, boxing, rowing, some gymnastics....Another key thing that separates Yugoslavia from the Soviets and its satellites was that they didn't boycott the 84 Olympics in Los Angeles, neither did they side with the Western world in boycotting Moscow 80. Obviously Sarejevo held the 84 Winter Olympics. Sadly, only one medal was won by the country that year, alpine skier Jure Franko (Slovenian).

I got off tangent, but just wanted to prove that Yugoslavia actually won more than 'token' medals. Look at the medals won from 1948-1988. You'll see plenty of medals won by the country without a state sponsored doping program. I've debated this issue with the country and its "Eastern Europeanness" in terms of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact, but factually, it was a neutral country.

I still believe that there part of this upcoming ban against Russia from all sporting events is political. State sponsored or not.

 

[sniper]

Bettie Scott a slightly less aggressive version of Paula Radcliffe.
that's a good one, Bullsfan.

As for Poland, it's a huge understatement when i say they're lagging behind a bit in terms of recognizing/acknowledging the problem of doping in sports.
One problem might be that DOPING in Polish means '(fan) support' (from the verb dopingowac 'to support/cheer for'). So it actually has a positive connotation in sports.
I think doping in Poland is and has been as rampant as elsewhere, with certain peaks for instance in the mid-70s, and also at present. It's just not being recognized as something that even exists.

 

[Chaddy]

Re: Re:

Russia just simply hasn't moved on since the fall of communism, cheating is deeply ingrained and until there's a change of regime they'll just deny everything. It is fairly clear that Russia has been cheating at state level since the late 1960's, they weren't the only ones, all of the other Eastern European countries were at it too, The GDR were the absolute masters of cheating their way to Olympic medals. I'm sure Russia will kick and scream and remind us all they have nuclear weapons but a 12 month ban from all international sport should send out a message that cheating won't be tolerated. I'd say the same if any other country had a state sponsored doping program.

Pete

Lol, you watch too much British state propaganda. Obviously, Russia operated a state-sponsored doping programme (it is well known fact), just like UK. So many british cheater: Farah, Radcliffe, Ennis, Wiggins, Frome, Murray, rowers, track cycling etc and the UK government definitely are involved (cover up ....) As for nukes, Russians/Soviets are reminded your country only once. When you guys invaded Egypt and began to kill people there. The Russians definitely wiser than americans. They don't nuke people just for lulz, just like the yankees did in japan.

So if you're British and a Champion your a cheat?

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Russia just simply hasn't moved on since the fall of communism, cheating is deeply ingrained and until there's a change of regime they'll just deny everything. It is fairly clear that Russia has been cheating at state level since the late 1960's, they weren't the only ones, all of the other Eastern European countries were at it too, The GDR were the absolute masters of cheating their way to Olympic medals. I'm sure Russia will kick and scream and remind us all they have nuclear weapons but a 12 month ban from all international sport should send out a message that cheating won't be tolerated. I'd say the same if any other country had a state sponsored doping program.

Pete

Lol, you watch too much British state propaganda. Obviously, Russia operated a state-sponsored doping programme (it is well known fact), just like UK. So many british cheater: Farah, Radcliffe, Ennis, Wiggins, Frome, Murray, rowers, track cycling etc and the UK government definitely are involved (cover up ....) As for nukes, Russians/Soviets are reminded your country only once. When you guys invaded Egypt and began to kill people there. The Russians definitely wiser than americans. They don't nuke people just for lulz, just like the yankees did in japan.

So if you're British and a Champion your a cheat?

Most likely yes. Doping is prevalent in all sports. Only people blinded by their nationalism cant see it.

 

[sheisdisaster]

Re: Re:

So if you're British and a Champion your a cheat?

Probably 65% of the olympic medalists are drug cheater, regardless of nationality.

 

[Benotti69]

I bet if people were to analyse countries that held Olympics and how well the home athletes did at their home games compared to 'away' games the results would tell us something similar to what Russia has been caught doing.

 

[red_flanders]

Re:

I bet if people were to analyse countries that held Olympics and how well the home athletes did at their home games compared to 'away' games the results would tell us something similar to what Russia has been caught doing.

Bingo. See Barcelona and the entire Sky/Wiggins narrative as role models, at least in cycling. You could see the latter coming from miles away.

 

[gazr99]

Re:

I bet if people were to analyse countries that held Olympics and how well the home athletes did at their home games compared to 'away' games the results would tell us something similar to what Russia has been caught doing.

Not exactly a clear stat as most countries (GB did at least), will prepare years in advance development programmes/ academies to ensure their athletes do perform at the home games. GB have been improving medal wise every Olympics since 2000/2004, I expect it to drop this year. Never mind the fact in most sports, you usually find the athletes/teams perform better at home, hence the saying home advantage

 

[red_flanders]

Re: Re:

I bet if people were to analyse countries that held Olympics and how well the home athletes did at their home games compared to 'away' games the results would tell us something similar to what Russia has been caught doing.

Not exactly a clear stat as most countries (GB did at least), will prepare years in advance development programmes/ academies to ensure their athletes do perform at the home games. GB have been improving medal wise every Olympics since 2000/2004, I expect it to drop this year. Never mind the fact in most sports, you usually find the athletes/teams perform better at home, hence the saying home advantage

Of course they prepare. That preparation costs money. Results are expected. Dope is part of the "preparation" and helps insure results. Not exactly a news flash here...

 

[gazr99]

Re: Re:

I bet if people were to analyse countries that held Olympics and how well the home athletes did at their home games compared to 'away' games the results would tell us something similar to what Russia has been caught doing.

Not exactly a clear stat as most countries (GB did at least), will prepare years in advance development programmes/ academies to ensure their athletes do perform at the home games. GB have been improving medal wise every Olympics since 2000/2004, I expect it to drop this year. Never mind the fact in most sports, you usually find the athletes/teams perform better at home, hence the saying home advantage

Of course they prepare. That preparation costs money. Results are expected. Dope is part of the "preparation" and helps insure results. Not exactly a news flash here...

Because every single athlete that dopes or allegedly dopes wins?

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

I bet if people were to analyse countries that held Olympics and how well the home athletes did at their home games compared to 'away' games the results would tell us something similar to what Russia has been caught doing.

Good. I am glad someone else posted something like this. Perhaps it's been posted by others before, but I know I've mentioned this a few times in clinic threads before, China, Canada, Great Britain and Russia all had record medal hauls at their home olympics. Coincidence(s)? I don't think so. People will probably say 'a lot of money, time and effort was invested, home energy, motivated athletes, home fans, familiar surroundings, language, etc, etc.' How come this isn't said with Russia? All we hear is 'state sponsored this, state sponsored that, KGB, FSB, Putin...' Say something about Great Britain and you'll be labeled a "Russia/Putin sympathizer, brainwashed St. Petersburg troll..." I don't think it's as black and white anymore as it probably seemed in the 60's, 70's and 80's. I don't think people will get so easily fooled, not with the resources available.

On Sky/Froome threads some have felt there is a bias against the Brits and that nationalities shouldn't be attacked in terms of doping and doping-related topics. So why does all of this go out the window with Russia? It's alright to be skeptical about Russian performances at their home Olympics but mention the Froome, Radcliffe, Farah, Wiggins and you are labeled as 'anti-British?' I am all for being pragmatic and neutral, but where is the neutrality when it comes 'joe foreigner,' particularly Russia? And if an athlete who happens to be from an Eastern European country fails a dope test, one of the first things we'll read is 'hey look, he/she is from Eastern Europe, no surprises there...' yet when a Brit or American fails a test....nothing. This sort of talk is borderline xenophobic, in my opinion. I liken it to terrorism and muslims. A terrorist attack happens and boom, we've already established he/she is a muslim or of muslim descent, before any actual evidence comes out. And if the evidence is to the contrary...crickets.

 

[gazr99]

People aren't giving Russia that reason because Soviet state sponsored drug program was well known and the fact this report focuses on recent times not 30 years ago. When a Brit fails a test they are destroyed in the media, look at the reaction to sprinter Dwain Chambers & when Ferdinand missed a test. Footballers have been caught taking legal highs, which I presume aren't on the banned list and they're on all of the front pages

 

[Lyon]

It is the timing and, most importantly, the reveal itself that is political. That there is (more or less) state sponsored cheating going on in Russia has been clear to anyone following sport. It's not like the Russians care to hide it in the first place.

On the British... they are next in line among the people deserving of a good drug-fueled scandal after us Norwegians.