More lame Russia bashing

[gooner]

Old article I seen retweeted today from a couple of years ago, yet relevant about Mutko's rise, various power interests and the conflict of interests he has.

http://alantomlinson.typepad.com/alan_tomlinson/2015/04/putins-placeman-and-fifa-ethics.html

The FIFA Ethics Committee should have looked into him long ago.

EDIT: He's barred from attending Rio.

 

[wrinklyvet]

Perhaps if it is right about a Muslim presenter being used, it is because in Britain we seek to avoid racism, the broadcasters do strive for balance and the avoidance of bias and the presenter had no reason not to appear. Hijabs and headscarves in Britain are extremely common items of clothing seen in many towns and cities.

But somebody posting here is anxious to deflect criticism of alleged Russian doping and State suppport for it, and from the alleged subterfuge that has been shown to have been used to cover it up.

I can't see how, in the light of the evidence and the report, it is "more lame Russia bashing" to discuss this. The wealth of evidence now available far outweighs that against any other country and the centralised state involvement is not a figment of anyone's imagination.

I well understand the desire to point fingers at nearly every other country, Britain included, to take the heat out of this, but no other country has laid itself open to the accusations to any greater degree than Russia, has it?

Unless, of course, you take the Putin line that these matters are just anti-Russian politics on the part of other countries.

I well understand why that would be the response and it's not something upon which there will be agreement with Russian propagandists attempting to turn the tables.

 

[Rob27172]

The fact is that if it wasn't for its nuclear arsenal Russia would have been included in the axis of evil and called out as a state sponsored terrorist country years ago

From killing its own citizens by the millions to the propping up of despicable racist dogs of war in the caucuses
to the killing of thousands to make land grabs in crimea
and constantly trying to flex its muscles around the world with war planes and submarines invading others territorial space
Russia is a disfunctional and undemocratic dictatorship which has rigged its elections for decades and will rig anything within its power to show itself as a leading power in the world.

The fact is it cannot do that on a economic scale any longer and it's military power is now falling behind not only USA and China but now many countries in the middle east as well

So it is now unable to block a lot of the intrusive criticism it is getting

As a result we have the unravelling of the Russian propoganda mythology that has been spewed for so long.

Only a matter of time before the country descends in to bankruptcy which is what many of the members of opec and NATO would love to see.

Maybe Putin will then finally realise that posing without his shirt on or in a judo suit every other week really cant divert attention from the fact his country is falling apart around him

 

[DirtyWorks]

Re:

From killing its own citizens by the millions to the propping up of despicable racist dogs of war in the caucuses
to the killing of thousands to make land grabs in crimea
and constantly trying to flex its muscles around the world with war planes and submarines invading others territorial space

Hardly a distinctive feature when comparing it to the actions of other nations in the G8.

The reality is the corruption is endemic. WADA passive because it's purpose is to pretend that the IOC are policing doping. In the UK or USA, the corruption may not be so obvious, but it's the same system everywhere. Russians looked at it and took full advantage of it.

The only reason it's been selected is because of Seppelt's story. Otherwise, the system would have continued like other national, or at least national federation doping programs.

 

[popular jams]

Still churning around Smiley's bait after 6 pages?

Most of you are better than that. C'mon!

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

The fact is that if it wasn't for its nuclear arsenal Russia would have been included in the axis of evil and called out as a state sponsored terrorist country years ago

From killing its own citizens by the millions to the propping up of despicable racist dogs of war in the caucuses
to the killing of thousands to make land grabs in crimea
and constantly trying to flex its muscles around the world with war planes and submarines invading others territorial space
Russia is a disfunctional and undemocratic dictatorship which has rigged its elections for decades and will rig anything within its power to show itself as a leading power in the world.

The fact is it cannot do that on a economic scale any longer and it's military power is now falling behind not only USA and China but now many countries in the middle east as well

So it is now unable to block a lot of the intrusive criticism it is getting

As a result we have the unravelling of the Russian propoganda mythology that has been spewed for so long.

Only a matter of time before the country descends in to bankruptcy which is what many of the members of opec and NATO would love to see.

Maybe Putin will then finally realise that posing without his shirt on or in a judo suit every other week really cant divert attention from the fact his country is falling apart around him

I don't think Russia should be excused for its past and current misdeeds, but if we are going to go that direction, we can name a number of countries/empires past and present, which have similar transgressions. Putin is not an angel, in fact, it's too bad there is a such a growth in nationalism in Russia (though I understand it's really been waiting to grow since December 1991), and sometimes it clouts the thinking of some Russians, but in terms of the West (particularly the US) lecturing everyone on how corrupt and potent a nation is, is rather hypocritical. Don't you think? Of course, I'll be accused of 'deflating the issue,' but this is a worthy discussion, is it not? Since the topic is Russia bashing under the Clinic, where we discuss doping (from all parts of the world), we should be able to discuss double standards regarding doping.

And if you want to discuss Americans systematically covering up doping, here you go:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/exum-claims-large-scale-cover-up-of-doping-positives/

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2003/apr/24/athletics.duncanmackay

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/17/sports/olympics-anti-doping-official-says-us-covered-up.html

http://www.playthegame.org/news/news-articles/2003/q-a-with-dr-wade-exum/

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/stories/s155405.htm


Sounds familiar, no?

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

I didn't know about that, but from what I have found, Wade Exum, the former anti-doping chief in the USOC, said that from 1988-2000, the US authorities, primarily the USOC and USATF dismissed/hid/threw away/swept under the rug/whatever you can conjure up, hundreds of positive drug tests, and, according to Exum, at least half of those positives went on to win medals at World's and Olympics during this time period. Now, USATF has a long history of good results. It's not like they popped out of nowhere during the said period, but this guy (just like Rodchekov, his Russian counterpart) has seen lots of things. Carl Lewis failed several doping tests during the sprint/summer months of 1988, including that year's US Olympic Trials, and was cleared to compete. I think we all know what transpired in Seoul. Ben Johnson failed a test and boom, he was DQ'd immediately and like a true political farce, the gold medal went to the Lewis. Essentially, Johnson was made a scapegoat. After all these years Lewis hasn't acknowledged that he failed doping tests. The closes thing he's ever done to doing that, was in 2003 he said 'so what if I failed tests?' Why is Johnson DQ'd for failing drug tests, and Lewis isn't? Why was Lewis allowed to compete in Seoul (and beyond) in the first place? Johnson acknowledged that he took steroids, but actually he wasn't busted for what he was taking to prepare for those 100 meter races that summer.

Why shouldn't we take Exum's words like we are taking Rodchenkov's words? I can't imagine their work being too dissimilar, unless all we want to focus on is 'but us doping isn't state sponsored, and isn't policed by the special forces...' One would think that hiding hundreds of positive tests from top athletes, medal winning athletes, money making athletes is at least somewhat systematic, isn't it?

excellent stuff.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

...
Hardly a distinctive feature when comparing it to the actions of other nations in the G8.

The reality is the corruption is endemic. WADA passive because it's purpose is to pretend that the IOC are policing doping. In the UK or USA, the corruption may not be so obvious, but it's the same system everywhere. Russians looked at it and took full advantage of it.

The only reason it's been selected is because of Seppelt's story. Otherwise, the system would have continued like other national, or at least national federation doping programs.

+1

 

[red_flanders]

Re: Re:

Of course they prepare. That preparation costs money. Results are expected. Dope is part of the "preparation" and helps insure results. Not exactly a news flash here...

Because every single athlete that dopes or allegedly dopes wins?

Is that hat I said? Anything remotely like it? Let's try and stay within shouting distance of basic logic constructs, shall we?

"Dope is part of the preparation and helps insure results." So yes, you have said doping insures results. So don't be too outraged

I'm a little outraged. I think it's the bare minimum that the person with whom you're having a discussion responds to what you say, not what they make up about what you say. I'm outraged that from "Dope...helps insure results", you got "...every single athlete that dopes or allegedly dopes wins?".

That's either outrageously poor reading comprehension or a fairly outrageous attempt to twist an argument for reasons I can only speculate on. I don't know your intent, so either read more closely or read up on the logical fallacy of strawman arguments. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

It is not in question that nations have ramped up doping programs in the lead up to home Olympic games. It is not in question that doping helps many athletes achieve better results. So not sure what it is that you object to.

I can speculate that your response is fueled by fear of the logical conclusion of the above facts, that it is quite likely that British Cycling and Sky doped riders in the lead up to the London games, and achieved their results due to levels of doping that didn't previously exist.

I get that the dramatic change in fortunes of British cyclists has been explained away by rounder wheels, better training and bringing your own pillows on the road, but every explanation put forth by Sky and BC has been roundly debunked by rational individuals who have been following cycling for decades.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Question of the day: If Russian sport is doped to the gills, how come Katusha are a bunch of also rans?

Because cycling licenses can't dope.

Since when?

Since forever. I've never heard of business license doping. Have you?

I think Verbruggen introduced it in 1999 for an American team and it worked very well for 7 years.

I think it was reintroduced in 2012 for a British team.

 

[adamfo]

Re: Re:

Sheisdisaster's last rambling post is very similar to copy and paste jobs that I've seen Kremlin troll house bots use. These characters suddenly appear when Russia is mentioned, then disappear just as quickly. The Guardian (liberal left leaning paper) wrote an article about it last year after their comments section was inundated in threads about MH17 and Ukraine.
Note how nouns are not preceded by the definite article. This type of syntax is quite common in east European English.
She/he clearly doesn't understand what a Constitutional Monarchy is or how the remit of the BBC is to question the Government of the day, whoever that might be, by daily interviews and documentaries on Government policy.

In term of media the Mailonline gets the most hits, around 12 million daily. Of the broadsheets the Telegraph and Guardian sites get many views. None are Murdoch owned.
Television National news is available from C4 and ITV or on Freeview the likes of CNN International or indeed RT.
Cycling news, is of course British, run by Immediate Media Co Ltd. who also publish the BBC Top Gear magazine, the Radio Times and other BBC Magazines titles under licence from BBC Worldwide.

LOL @ these people.

The funniest part of your post. There is a solid proof that paid UK government trolls are using psychology-based influence techniques on social media websites such as YouTube, Facebook, Twitter and forums - https://theintercept.com/2015/06/22/controversial-gchq-unit-domestic-law-enforcement-propaganda/
Maybe you are a JTRIG agent

Btw, I don't give a **** about Russia. My point is that UK's the same crap as Russia. Nationalism, racism, propaganda maybe worse in your country. I'm glad you guys voted to leave the EU. Let's hope you weirdos trigger article 50 very soon and our countries have fewer things in common.

You all say the same thing but the facts tell me a different story: Over 70% of UK’s papers owned by three companies, over 80% of national audience share goes to Murdoch or BBC. Smear campaign against the oppositon leader even on the state TV. And no, BBC do not really criticize your government. They were one of the biggest cheerleaders for the Iraq war. Millions have died in Iraq and counting.

There is no western country with a more racist MSM than the UK. You guys still have colonial hangover and ignorance in general.

What has a social media post from the Sun got to do with anything ? Another more mainstream presenter on the BBC TV and radio is Mishal Husain. How many Muslim or black people read the main news in your country ?
Moira Stuart is black and she has read the news on the BBC, on various programmes, since 1981. Trevor McDonald is black he read the main ITV news for many years.
Your attempt to conflate the BBC with a Murdoch redtop shows just how little you understand about Britain !

 

[Rob27172]

Re: Re:

The fact is that if it wasn't for its nuclear arsenal Russia would have been included in the axis of evil and called out as a state sponsored terrorist country years ago

From killing its own citizens by the millions to the propping up of despicable racist dogs of war in the caucuses
to the killing of thousands to make land grabs in crimea
and constantly trying to flex its muscles around the world with war planes and submarines invading others territorial space
Russia is a disfunctional and undemocratic dictatorship which has rigged its elections for decades and will rig anything within its power to show itself as a leading power in the world.

The fact is it cannot do that on a economic scale any longer and it's military power is now falling behind not only USA and China but now many countries in the middle east as well

So it is now unable to block a lot of the intrusive criticism it is getting

As a result we have the unravelling of the Russian propoganda mythology that has been spewed for so long.

Only a matter of time before the country descends in to bankruptcy which is what many of the members of opec and NATO would love to see.

Maybe Putin will then finally realise that posing without his shirt on or in a judo suit every other week really cant divert attention from the fact his country is falling apart around him

I don't think Russia should be excused for its past and current misdeeds, but if we are going to go that direction, we can name a number of countries/empires past and present, which have similar transgressions. Putin is not an angel, in fact, it's too bad there is a such a growth in nationalism in Russia (though I understand it's really been waiting to grow since December 1991), and sometimes it clouts the thinking of some Russians, but in terms of the West (particularly the US) lecturing everyone on how corrupt and potent a nation is, is rather hypocritical. Don't you think? Of course, I'll be accused of 'deflating the issue,' but this is a worthy discussion, is it not? Since the topic is Russia bashing under the Clinic, where we discuss doping (from all parts of the world), we should be able to discuss double standards regarding doping.

And if you want to discuss Americans systematically covering up doping, here you go:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/exum-claims-large-scale-cover-up-of-doping-positives/

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2003/apr/24/athletics.duncanmackay

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/17/sports/olympics-anti-doping-official-says-us-covered-up.html

http://www.playthegame.org/news/news-articles/2003/q-a-with-dr-wade-exum/

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/stories/s155405.htm


Sounds familiar, no?

It does and if you want to go there I will happily go there as I am British.

Actually one of the points you raise is incredibly pertinent to the clinic and the topic in hand which is the idea of nationalism or th emore primitive name it is referred to as Tribalism

We all have it to some extent .
We want our tribe to be the strongest and most dominant because deep down we have a belief that it will improve our chances of survival and growth
It is what drives our desire to support a particular team or not - to belong to a group that shares our belief
It is what drives nationalism
and it is what drives the a lot of the desire of governments to do whatever is necessary to win at sports (which are at their essence a substitute for war)
Which the British have done on numerous occasions as have most developed and some third world countries

 

[movingtarget]

Russian Paralympians : Hilarious Stuff

http://p.nytimes.com/email/re?location=4z5Q7LhI+KVBjmEgFdYACPLKh239P3pgSWszY9Et7BoGd/f/F1sr6KNsV1hchRZ9qgOpFlbMc8z0bk6frB/2cY5bDMMPNH/wIzEyEVvJwFvMViDzmFNB2KpsaR+VPFqNKH7pilVGwly+6g7wmxRqOh+xP1MV7eX2&campaign_id=129&instance_id=79547&segment_id=92686&user_id=12d98412e3bcc0522f6cfbf4c21c54e6&regi_id=42685115

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

Russian Paralympians : Hilarious Stuff

http://p.nytimes.com/email/re?location=4z5Q7LhI+KVBjmEgFdYACPLKh239P3pgSWszY9Et7BoGd/f/F1sr6KNsV1hchRZ9qgOpFlbMc8z0bk6frB/2cY5bDMMPNH/wIzEyEVvJwFvMViDzmFNB2KpsaR+VPFqNKH7pilVGwly+6g7wmxRqOh+xP1MV7eX2&campaign_id=129&instance_id=79547&segment_id=92686&user_id=12d98412e3bcc0522f6cfbf4c21c54e6&regi_id=42685115

Spanish did worse at Special Olympics. Google Spanish special olympics basketball team.

 

[adamfo]

I think the female Chinese swimmers are using something a bit more sophisticated than the Russian "Duchess cocktail" method.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

I think the female Chinese swimmers are using something a bit more sophisticated than the Russian "Duchess cocktail" method.

I didn't know Ledecky and Franklin were Chinese??

 

[adamfo]

Re: Re:

I think the female Chinese swimmers are using something a bit more sophisticated than the Russian "Duchess cocktail" method.

I didn't know Ledecky and Franklin were Chinese??

Don't trust anybody....https://fumanchucomplex.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/masque-de-fu-manchu-0-g.jpg

 

[luckyboy]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3705101/ENTIRE-Russian-team-387-athletes-banned-competing-Rio-Olympics-punishment-country-s-state-sponsored-doping-programme.html

Daily Mail reporting all Russian banned from Rio with this caveat..

Zakarin lives in Cyprus, isn't tested in Russia. Don't know where Chernetskiy and Kochetkov live most of the year, I guess probably not Russia..

Hard to particularly qualify "free of Russia's sphere of corruption" but if they are all living/tested abroad then seem they will be allowed to compete like Klishina and Stepanova I guess?

 

[buckle]

Sharipova was busted but presumably not because of a Russian state sponsored program.

 

[BullsFan22]

Sharipova was busted but presumably not because of a Russian state sponsored program.

But she is a Russian, and obviously there is an agenda, whether they actually have proof of 'state sponsored' doping or not. It's been pretty obvious.

People like Shubenkov, Klishina, Isinbayeva, etc have to sit home because the US patsies felt like throwing a whole blanket over the entire country.

And the beauty of this is the US has its own history of systematic cover ups and massive doping, particularly in track and field, and yet, no punishment was ever handed out. No calls to ban an entire country. Why is that?

 

[The Carrot]

A good article here:

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/olympics-2016/banning-russia-from-rio-wont-mark-success-in-the-war-on-doping-it-will-just-highlight-previous-failings/news-story/57495b959200ca376904ed9bfbe47b26

For a minute I actually thought it was the British Telegraph. :redface:

 

[buckle]

Sharipova was busted but presumably not because of a Russian state sponsored program.

But she is a Russian, and obviously there is an agenda, whether they actually have proof of 'state sponsored' doping or not. It's been pretty obvious.

People like Shubenkov, Klishina, Isinbayeva, etc have to sit home because the US patsies felt like throwing a whole blanket over the entire country.

And the beauty of this is the US has its own history of systematic cover ups and massive doping, particularly in track and field, and yet, no punishment was ever handed out. No calls to ban an entire country. Why is that?

Totally agreed that the common denominator is that Maria is Russian and the most famous Russian in the World to boot. These are frightening times.

 

[Benotti69]

Russia team escape blanket ban from IOC for Rio Olympic Games


https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/jul/24/russia-team-escape-blanket-ban-ioc-rio-olympic-games

 

[luckyboy]

Plus any Russians who have previously been caught are not allowed to compete

Stepanova the whistleblower is excluded

...

 

[movingtarget]

Gutless decision. I knew they would do this. The IOC is a joke.