More lame Russia bashing

[Benotti69]

Re:

Plus any Russians who have previously been caught are not allowed to compete

Stepanova the whistleblower is excluded

...

Those currently serving bans? Or anyone who ever had a ban?

 

[BYOP88]

Re:

Plus any Russians who have previously been caught are not allowed to compete

Stepanova the whistleblower is excluded

...

Saw this on twitter and agree: Surely should be extended to any athlete regardless of what country they represent.

 

[luckyboy]

Any Russian who was ever been sanctioned for doping according to AP https://twitter.com/AP_Sports/status/757217705640529921

 

[adamfo]

Sharipova was busted but presumably not because of a Russian state sponsored program.

But she is a Russian, and obviously there is an agenda, whether they actually have proof of 'state sponsored' doping or not. It's been pretty obvious.

People like Shubenkov, Klishina, Isinbayeva, etc have to sit home because the US patsies felt like throwing a whole blanket over the entire country.

And the beauty of this is the US has its own history of systematic cover ups and massive doping, particularly in track and field, and yet, no punishment was ever handed out. No calls to ban an entire country. Why is that?

Totally agreed that the common denominator is that Maria is Russian and the most famous Russian in the World to boot. These are frightening times.

She moved to America age 7 and presumably has US citizenship.

For the last 10 years she has been importing Meldonium , an east European made drug that doesn't have FDA or EU approval.

 

[luckyboy]

Katusha saying they expect Zakarin to compete as independent athlete

Russian Cycling Federation Secretary General Yuri Kucheryaviy says he thinks the UCI would allow Russian cyclists to compete

And people are speculating about CAS challenge (like Chambers and BOA in 2012) but surely not enough time before Olympics for that

At the moment, who knows?

 

[BullsFan22]

Didn't expect that sort of ruling, but from that Guardian article that was shared above, the last two bits really has me scratching my head and laughing in disbelief:

Meanwhile, speaking to BBC Radio 5 Live, McLaren insisted that of the 10,500 athletes competing in Rio, only a tiny amount would be on performance-enhancing drugs. “I would say it would be a very small percentage, probably under 1% or thereabouts, because every country in the world, the last thing they want is to have an athlete who is positive at the Olympic Games,” he said.

“There is a lot of checking that is done for people that go to the Olympics that isn’t done for any other kind of international competition, so that tends to suppress the number of positives. There are a few people who slip through the various tests but it is less than 1%.”

ARE YOU KIDDING ME, MR. MCLAREN???? Please, someone else tell me they laughed or at least grinned/cringed when they finished reading that article?!

I don't think I've ever called someone a name here in these forums/threads, be it another member or a subject in the 'million's' of threads here or the people/groups/countries mentioned in the threads, links, etc, but I have to say, if Mr. Mclaren (a lawyer, mind you), really thinks that, and/or thinks that whoever reads that will believe him, is either an idiot, is part of the game/complicit OR he really thinks he's talking to a bunch of morons that will forget this within 24 hours. Seriously, with that sort of talk, no wonder people are losing faith in these organizations on a daily basis. Not fast enough, though it appears.

I think this is about as bad as anything McQuaid, Verbruggen, Bach, Mutko, Coe, Cookson, etc have said, perhaps worse. If this guy was in charge of the so-called 'independent investigation,' then we have to go to the dictionary and change the meaning of those two words.

 

[CheckMyPecs]

Re:

Gutless decision. I knew they would do this. The IOC is a joke.

"How many rubles?" is what I wonder.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

Gutless decision. I knew they would do this. The IOC is a joke.

If the same sort of inquiry was going on regarding British revival at the London Olympics, where the Brits won a record amount of medals (golds as well), including sports and disciplines where they usually don't, or haven't in a long time, and the winner of the TDF also won the Olympic time trial, and team Sky was also under investigation for the past 6 years for suspicious activity and high blood values, and Paula Radcliffe and Mo Farah worked with coaches who have been under investigation, whilst living abroad, getting illegal substances from foreign sources....would you be ok with that, or would you want the British Olympic Team be banned from Rio and beyond?

Oh, and I forgot, Andy Murray, wins his first slam, the same year he wins the Olympics, the same Olympics I mentioned above, and then wins Wimbledon less than 12 months later, the first Brit to do that since the 1930's, all the while working with Ivan Lendl, one of the guys that ushered in the 'physical' preparation of tennis in the early 80's and did so for more than decade.

Please, no results that the Russians, or Kenyans or Ethiopians or Jamaicans have had, that were so much more outlandish than the Brits. In fact, I'd say Britains rise in the world of sport over the past 5-10 years, is much more suspect than the nations I have mentioned above, perhaps any other nation as well.

The only thing missing is the English football team winning the WC, but at least there, it's all mental, rather than physical for them, and I am sure if they get Leicester, Chelsea, Sheffield-like help by experts like Mark Bonar, they'll win the next World Cup and Euro.

 

[JackRabbitSlims]

Re: Re:

Gutless decision. I knew they would do this. The IOC is a joke.

If the same sort of inquiry was going on regarding British revival at the London Olympics, where the Brits won a record amount of medals (golds as well), including sports and disciplines where they usually don't, or haven't in a long time, and the winner of the TDF also won the Olympic time trial, and team Sky was also under investigation for the past 6 years for suspicious activity and high blood values, and Paula Radcliffe and Mo Farah worked with coaches who have been under investigation, whilst living abroad, getting illegal substances from foreign sources....would you be ok with that, or would you want the British Olympic Team be banned from Rio and beyond?

Oh, and I forgot, Andy Murray, wins his first slam, the same year he wins the Olympics, the same Olympics I mentioned above, and then wins Wimbledon less than 12 months later, the first Brit to do that since the 1930's, all the while working with Ivan Lendl, one of the guys that ushered in the 'physical' preparation of tennis in the early 80's and did so for more than decade.

Please, no results that the Russians, or Kenyans or Ethiopians or Jamaicans have had, that were so much more outlandish than the Brits. In fact, I'd say Britains rise in the world of sport over the past 5-10 years, is much more suspect than the nations I have mentioned above, perhaps any other nation as well.

The only thing missing is the English football team winning the WC, but at least there, it's all mental, rather than physical for them, and I am sure if they get Leicester, Chelsea, Sheffield-like help by experts like Mark Bonar, they'll win the next World Cup and Euro.

@BullsFan - I like reading your posts in the Clinic and I agree with much of what you say.

However, this decision by the IOC is completely Gutless and quite pathetic IMHO.
The flipside - how are the Russian athletes going to be received in Rio? - what happens if they actually medal? The reaction(s) from the crowds and fellow competitors will be hostile I imagine!
What a massive joke / farce this whole Olympic "movement" is.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Gutless decision. I knew they would do this. The IOC is a joke.

If the same sort of inquiry was going on regarding British revival at the London Olympics, where the Brits won a record amount of medals (golds as well), including sports and disciplines where they usually don't, or haven't in a long time, and the winner of the TDF also won the Olympic time trial, and team Sky was also under investigation for the past 6 years for suspicious activity and high blood values, and Paula Radcliffe and Mo Farah worked with coaches who have been under investigation, whilst living abroad, getting illegal substances from foreign sources....would you be ok with that, or would you want the British Olympic Team be banned from Rio and beyond?

Oh, and I forgot, Andy Murray, wins his first slam, the same year he wins the Olympics, the same Olympics I mentioned above, and then wins Wimbledon less than 12 months later, the first Brit to do that since the 1930's, all the while working with Ivan Lendl, one of the guys that ushered in the 'physical' preparation of tennis in the early 80's and did so for more than decade.

Please, no results that the Russians, or Kenyans or Ethiopians or Jamaicans have had, that were so much more outlandish than the Brits. In fact, I'd say Britains rise in the world of sport over the past 5-10 years, is much more suspect than the nations I have mentioned above, perhaps any other nation as well.

The only thing missing is the English football team winning the WC, but at least there, it's all mental, rather than physical for them, and I am sure if they get Leicester, Chelsea, Sheffield-like help by experts like Mark Bonar, they'll win the next World Cup and Euro.

@BullsFan - I like reading your posts in the Clinic and I agree with much of what you say.

However, this decision by the IOC is completely Gutless and quite pathetic IMHO.
The flipside - how are the Russian athletes going to be received in Rio? - what happens if they actually medal? The reaction(s) from the crowds and fellow competitors will be hostile I imagine!
What a massive joke / farce this whole Olympic "movement" is.

A lot of countries are understanding this. Not many want to host an olympics anymore. The demands the IOC make on a host country make an African dictator blush!

 

[adamfo]

Re: Re:

Gutless decision. I knew they would do this. The IOC is a joke.

If the same sort of inquiry was going on regarding British revival at the London Olympics, where the Brits won a record amount of medals (golds as well), including sports and disciplines where they usually don't, or haven't in a long time, and the winner of the TDF also won the Olympic time trial, and team Sky was also under investigation for the past 6 years for suspicious activity and high blood values, and Paula Radcliffe and Mo Farah worked with coaches who have been under investigation, whilst living abroad, getting illegal substances from foreign sources....would you be ok with that, or would you want the British Olympic Team be banned from Rio and beyond?

Oh, and I forgot, Andy Murray, wins his first slam, the same year he wins the Olympics, the same Olympics I mentioned above, and then wins Wimbledon less than 12 months later, the first Brit to do that since the 1930's, all the while working with Ivan Lendl, one of the guys that ushered in the 'physical' preparation of tennis in the early 80's and did so for more than decade.

Please, no results that the Russians, or Kenyans or Ethiopians or Jamaicans have had, that were so much more outlandish than the Brits. In fact, I'd say Britains rise in the world of sport over the past 5-10 years, is much more suspect than the nations I have mentioned above, perhaps any other nation as well.

The only thing missing is the English football team winning the WC, but at least there, it's all mental, rather than physical for them, and I am sure if they get Leicester, Chelsea, Sheffield-like help by experts like Mark Bonar, they'll win the next World Cup and Euro.

Outlandish ? Look at the medalists table. Team GB targeted traditional strong spots and reaped the benefits with home advantage. More funding was also given to sports where team GB had previously underperformed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Britain_at_the_2012_Summer_Olympics

 

[BullsFan22]

Re: Re:

Gutless decision. I knew they would do this. The IOC is a joke.

If the same sort of inquiry was going on regarding British revival at the London Olympics, where the Brits won a record amount of medals (golds as well), including sports and disciplines where they usually don't, or haven't in a long time, and the winner of the TDF also won the Olympic time trial, and team Sky was also under investigation for the past 6 years for suspicious activity and high blood values, and Paula Radcliffe and Mo Farah worked with coaches who have been under investigation, whilst living abroad, getting illegal substances from foreign sources....would you be ok with that, or would you want the British Olympic Team be banned from Rio and beyond?

Oh, and I forgot, Andy Murray, wins his first slam, the same year he wins the Olympics, the same Olympics I mentioned above, and then wins Wimbledon less than 12 months later, the first Brit to do that since the 1930's, all the while working with Ivan Lendl, one of the guys that ushered in the 'physical' preparation of tennis in the early 80's and did so for more than decade.

Please, no results that the Russians, or Kenyans or Ethiopians or Jamaicans have had, that were so much more outlandish than the Brits. In fact, I'd say Britains rise in the world of sport over the past 5-10 years, is much more suspect than the nations I have mentioned above, perhaps any other nation as well.

The only thing missing is the English football team winning the WC, but at least there, it's all mental, rather than physical for them, and I am sure if they get Leicester, Chelsea, Sheffield-like help by experts like Mark Bonar, they'll win the next World Cup and Euro.

@BullsFan - I like reading your posts in the Clinic and I agree with much of what you say.

However, this decision by the IOC is completely Gutless and quite pathetic IMHO.
The flipside - how are the Russian athletes going to be received in Rio? - what happens if they actually medal? The reaction(s) from the crowds and fellow competitors will be hostile I imagine!
What a massive joke / farce this whole Olympic "movement" is.

I am assuming, and this is just an assumption, there'll be mixed reactions. Some will receive them as they would any athlete (assuming there are no personal feuds...) and state that given that this was the IOC decision, backed by various other national organizations and perhaps even WADA, according to the rules, they should be allowed...then there is no issue. The other side (and I think we, here at the clinic, know who that side/individuals are) will not be so welcoming and will cry INJUSTICE for clean sport and the overall Olympic movement. Not too many will be against the IOC and the "Olympic Movement" per se.

Unfortunately the Russian athletes, especially those that are deemed 'clean,' (still not sure how you can determine anyone being clean without some actual testing, non-bias research/investigation, and who determines this anyway) will suffer because of the leadership that let them down. I still believe there are more clean Russian athletes than dirty ones, but that's my belief.

I know how the American, British and German media will respond. I am just glad I won't be there to hear the nauseating NBC drivel. The Germans are usually a little more pragmatic, but they've sort of started following the NBC narrative (inadvertently, I hope). The Brits, well, I have no idea. Probably they'll be the most outraged, especially Sir Coe and Dame Paula (wait, she isn't a Dame yet???).

 

[DirtyWorks]

People like Shubenkov, Klishina, Isinbayeva, etc have to sit home because the US patsies felt like throwing a whole blanket over the entire country.

And the beauty of this is the US has its own history of systematic cover ups and massive doping, particularly in track and field, and yet, no punishment was ever handed out. No calls to ban an entire country. Why is that?

To the last part, I'd say the size of the American media market and the strong American bias in Olympic advertising wins. I don't know what Russia's broadcast bids were like though...

To the first part, the Seppelt stories describe a pretty murky system where it's not clear who does what and how on the corruption side. This is suggested by the bribe "refund."

It's interesting that the latest round of reports were completely damning whereas Pound's report earlier this year basically smoothed everything over. More of the murkiness that seems to pervade the "olympic family."

 

[buckle]

Sharipova was busted but presumably not because of a Russian state sponsored program.

But she is a Russian, and obviously there is an agenda, whether they actually have proof of 'state sponsored' doping or not. It's been pretty obvious.

People like Shubenkov, Klishina, Isinbayeva, etc have to sit home because the US patsies felt like throwing a whole blanket over the entire country.

And the beauty of this is the US has its own history of systematic cover ups and massive doping, particularly in track and field, and yet, no punishment was ever handed out. No calls to ban an entire country. Why is that?

Totally agreed that the common denominator is that Maria is Russian and the most famous Russian in the World to boot. These are frightening times.

She moved to America age 7 and presumably has US citizenship.

For the last 10 years she has been importing Meldonium , an east European made drug that doesn't have FDA or EU approval.

Thus the Russians are behind tennis doping also ... incredible!

 

[adamfo]

Back in 2012 I had a wager on Betfair that team GB would win +20 golds which turned out correct (actual figure 29 gold.)
National lottery funding has continued in sports that were successful, so Rio should give an indication of what home advantage is worth.
I say -20 golds this time out but the spanner in the works is how many Russians actually turn up. They got 22 golds last time.

You can see the positive tests by sport on page 47 of the report:

https://www.scribd.com/document/318560660/McLaren-WADA-Report-of-Sochi-Olympics

Is the federation going to get the names connected with the 26 positive cycling tests ?
If not, 95% of the Russian team are going to be competing.

 

[This Charming Man]

Sharipova was busted but presumably not because of a Russian state sponsored program.

But she is a Russian, and obviously there is an agenda, whether they actually have proof of 'state sponsored' doping or not. It's been pretty obvious.

People like Shubenkov, Klishina, Isinbayeva, etc have to sit home because the US patsies felt like throwing a whole blanket over the entire country.

And the beauty of this is the US has its own history of systematic cover ups and massive doping, particularly in track and field, and yet, no punishment was ever handed out. No calls to ban an entire country. Why is that?

I have not heard of state sponsored doping from the US in more than 20 years. Ask Tyler Hamilton.

 

[AlbineVespuzzio]

This subject is very telling regarding hypocrisy in doping..

supposedly they blame Russia of state-sponsered doping-detection-avoidance programs. Well, they aren't doing (and haven't done) a very good job: in the last few years there were countless russian athletes caught (just by impression, but I'm confident about it). And then the whole "program" has been caught itself!!

The most disgraceful part is unafected athletes coming forward supporting the decision, or even saying "not enough":

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/jul/24/greg-rutherford-ioc-decision-russian-team-rio-spineless

they most likely dope themselves. Worse.


Russia is a state-orientated economy, after the failed experience of the 90's and the legacy of more than half a century of communism. So clearly their doping programs had to financed by the state. The West is market-orientated, so athletes have no need of the state to finance them, "companies", or "sponsors" do it (e.g. Sky). And given the nature of the two systems, I would say the west gets the "best stuff".

Shameful, I say.

 

[gooner]

This is a must read. Shows up WADA, IOC and IAAF who ignored all this back in 2013. Brilliant journalism too.

http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2016/07/25/exposed-the-story-behind-the-story-of-russia-doping-and-the-ioc-250701/

 

[thehog]

People like Shubenkov, Klishina, Isinbayeva, etc have to sit home because the US patsies felt like throwing a whole blanket over the entire country.

And the beauty of this is the US has its own history of systematic cover ups and massive doping, particularly in track and field, and yet, no punishment was ever handed out. No calls to ban an entire country. Why is that?

To the last part, I'd say the size of the American media market and the strong American bias in Olympic advertising wins. I don't know what Russia's broadcast bids were like though...

To the first part, the Seppelt stories describe a pretty murky system where it's not clear who does what and how on the corruption side. This is suggested by the bribe "refund."

It's interesting that the latest round of reports were completely damning whereas Pound's report earlier this year basically smoothed everything over. More of the murkiness that seems to pervade the "olympic family."

$300m for Sotchi and Rio, nothing compared to what NBC pays, circa $4.5bn .SportFive did the deal for free to air Russian broadcasters and other European countries. To be fair on NBCs fee, they make a lot revenue from advertising, more so than any other country.

http://www.sportspromedia.com/news/ioc_deal_with_sportfive_value_confirmed_at_more_than_us300_million

 

[movingtarget]

Tennis does not even admit it has a problem. Needs a few whistleblowers I think. They won't even sanction players for what seems to be pretty clear sports betting corruption. Did Nike finally pull it's support of Sharapova or are they still sponsoring her ?

 

[Jakub]

Re:

This subject is very telling regarding hypocrisy in doping..

supposedly they blame Russia of state-sponsered doping-detection-avoidance programs. Well, they aren't doing (and haven't done) a very good job: in the last few years there were countless russian athletes caught (just by impression, but I'm confident about it). And then the whole "program" has been caught itself!!

The most disgraceful part is unafected athletes coming forward supporting the decision, or even saying "not enough":

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/jul/24/greg-rutherford-ioc-decision-russian-team-rio-spineless

they most likely dope themselves. Worse.


Russia is a state-orientated economy, after the failed experience of the 90's and the legacy of more than half a century of communism. So clearly their doping programs had to financed by the state. The West is market-orientated, so athletes have no need of the state to finance them, "companies", or "sponsors" do it (e.g. Sky). And given the nature of the two systems, I would say the west gets the "best stuff".

Shameful, I say.

You are kidding, aren't you?

 

[kwikki]

Re: Re:

Gutless decision. I knew they would do this. The IOC is a joke.

If the same sort of inquiry was going on regarding British revival at the London Olympics, where the Brits won a record amount of medals (golds as well), including sports and disciplines where they usually don't, or haven't in a long time, and the winner of the TDF also won the Olympic time trial, and team Sky was also under investigation for the past 6 years for suspicious activity and high blood values, and Paula Radcliffe and Mo Farah worked with coaches who have been under investigation, whilst living abroad, getting illegal substances from foreign sources....would you be ok with that, or would you want the British Olympic Team be banned from Rio and beyond?

Oh, and I forgot, Andy Murray, wins his first slam, the same year he wins the Olympics, the same Olympics I mentioned above, and then wins Wimbledon less than 12 months later, the first Brit to do that since the 1930's, all the while working with Ivan Lendl, one of the guys that ushered in the 'physical' preparation of tennis in the early 80's and did so for more than decade.

Please, no results that the Russians, or Kenyans or Ethiopians or Jamaicans have had, that were so much more outlandish than the Brits. In fact, I'd say Britains rise in the world of sport over the past 5-10 years, is much more suspect than the nations I have mentioned above, perhaps any other nation as well.

The only thing missing is the English football team winning the WC, but at least there, it's all mental, rather than physical for them, and I am sure if they get Leicester, Chelsea, Sheffield-like help by experts like Mark Bonar, they'll win the next World Cup and Euro.

And interesting post, but you need to look a little deeper into British sport. If you look at Olympics medal success, it isn't really 2012 that stands out but 2008. Fewer medals but it is the significant year in the rise of British sport. It's actually traceable back to 1996 which was the worst showing for GB for some time, and marked a recognition of the need to put funding in place to develop British athletes. Lottery funding started the following year, and now stands at somewhere in the region of £5 billion total (OTOH...can't remember exactly figure but it's not far out).

With regards to your remark about Britain winning medals in sports in which it had had little prior success, it's interesting to look at the Britain's Olympic medal history which shows that the key sports historically have been athletics, rowing, cycling, sailing, boxing and tennis. 2012 pretty much replicated this. We did get our first dressage gold though, read into that what you will

Historically, home nations often do well in home hosted Olympics. Of course, the issue of tolerance and/or promotion of doping is ever present, and questions should always be asked, but what is very visible for those of us who have lived it for the past 20 years is the enormous efforts to manage, promote and above all fund sport in Britain from a grass roots level upwards with a view to future British success on the international stage.

 

[Robert5091]

http://www.bbc.com/sport/olympics/36879353
... the International Olympic Committee has left it up to individual sports' federations to ban Russian competitors.
Wada "stands by" its recommendation last month of a full Russia team ban.
(I reckon there was a pretty thick ol' envelope passed under a table for this decision)

 

[movingtarget]

This is a must read. Shows up WADA, IOC and IAAF who ignored all this back in 2013. Brilliant journalism too.

http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2016/07/25/exposed-the-story-behind-the-story-of-russia-doping-and-the-ioc-250701/

Great article. Thanks for that.

 

[Robert5091]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/26/s...n-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0
Bach could have set a strong example for nations who dare to cheat on the playing field as boldly and as defiantly as Russia did. But he failed, and in so many ways, too. As a leader. As a voice for clean sports and clean athletes. As someone expected to keep his word.

Is this the same Thomas Bach who — within just the last year — preached that the I.O.C. has “zero tolerance” when it comes to “doping and any kind of manipulation and corruption”?

Is this the same Thomas Bach who just last year said the Olympic antidoping system had to be overhauled and made entirely independent from nations and sports federations because it would send a message of good governance and transparency? Because doing so would “better protect the clean athletes and enhance the credibility of sports”?

Maybe by zero tolerance, Bach meant zero consequences? Or maybe he meant zero tolerance, starting not immediately, but in 2017?