Most Farcical Tour Ever?

[Don't be late Pedro]

I use Mørkøv as an example alot against these British fanboys, they say if he came next year to win he would be a doper, but the fact is he is just as good on track as wiggins was and thats their main argument that and warm down sessions..

Not sure you would say he was as good as Wiggins on the track. Far from it.

 

[ggusta]

whatever your smoking in Thailand is probalby a PED but its side effects are not helping

Thailand. anyone mentions Thailand and here is all my mind thinks about....

being on the arabian sea in india about 30 years ago.... hooked up with these 2 dudes from Thailand that had this stuff they called 'Lava Weed' holy s!!t. I found truth, God, the meaning of life, Love, other dimensions and the travel guide that I thought I had left behind in Bombay along with my lighter all in a couple hours. I knew then that one day Lance would win 7 tours and set the stage for institutional doping the likes of which we just witnessed.

Thailand...ohhhh....Thailand .... my eyes grow misty

 

[gatete]

At last a clean winner and a great Tour. Nothing more need be said, except that all the moves against doping are coming to fruition and the evidence is there for us all to see. I salute Evans from last year and Wiggins this ........ It's been a joy to watch spoiled only by those who wish to say the bad words. The majority of Tour fans know we have a clean winner, a great winner and nothing else matters. I can now go off and do my 160km today with a smile on my face. Happy! Happy! (However I do feel so sorry for those who want to wallow in their misery and only see the negatives, too bad for them!)

you forgot the I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles

cheers

 

[Froome19]

I use Mørkøv as an example alot against these British fanboys, they say if he came next year to win he would be a doper, but the fact is he is just as good on track as wiggins was and thats their main argument that and warm down sessions..

Morkov is not and will never be in the same league as Wiggins when it comes to the track.

 

[Dr.Sahl]

Not sure you would say he was as good as Wiggins on the track. Far from it.

he beat him a few times...

Mørkøv also won WC gold and OL medals, just saying that its werid that "some" British would call him doper if he did a Wiggins, but when the talk is on Wiggins their only argument is (he was super Track racer!!)

That was pretty much my point, that its an invalid arguement ^^

 

[Normandy]

This farcical tour came to end today(thankfully) and with an equally farcical performance from Cavendish and Sky at the end of a 3 week tour.

How can anyone believe Sky are not doping after watching that.

 

[La Vie Claire]

Absolutely disgusting. ASO declared Wigans' win as a "new era" in cycling. Are they that naive? The last time ASO declared a "new era" in cycling was during the 99 Tour. It seems the only thing ASO cares about is the mighty euro.

 

[180mmCrank]

I'm wondering what those are? care to elaborate a bit more about those umbelievable things

Why do you want to know? How will that help you?

I ask becasue the reason I mention it is to explain my position not really to inform anyone elses. I am not sure if you have been in a position to KNOW that a performance is clean - I have - so for me it really makes a difference when I personally try to make sense of what we have witnessed over the last few weeks. AND apologies if you have also I am not trying to suggest I have the only valid point of view. I AM strongly suggesting that great performances - that appear unbelievable - are not always achieved through cheating.

AND we have covered this ground before (above) and I am not that interested in another round of people casting doubt on every great sporting achievement wether it is in or isn't in the public domain. Many of the performances that could be discussed here involve people who do not deserve to be dragged into a conversation about cycling and doping.

One thing that I do agree in all this is that as a successful cyclist Wiggins will have navigate all the doping history that has gone before. He will be under scrutiny and suspicion and that is only fair ... but it is not fair to condemn him just because others have cheated in the past.

The logic that great performances (winning the TdF) are achieved through doping means that you can ONLY achieve great performances (winning the TdF) through doping is deeply flawed. It's a little like saying all London buses are red so everything on the road that is red must be a London bus

 

[Benotti69]

Absolutely disgusting. ASO declared Wigans' win as a "new era" in cycling. Are they that naive? The last time ASO declared a "new era" in cycling was during the 99 Tour. It seems the only thing ASO cares about is the mighty euro.

You know what kills me the most, is why arent the media asking them what exactly do they mean? and why are they not doing anything about the dirty tours and which dirty tours are we talking about here that this one is clean. Is last years dirty? Did Sastre win Dirty? Is Schlecks win dirty?

And if ASO are declaring this clean why are they not prefacing all the other wins as wins during a non clean era?????

Bullsh!t that the media keeps lapping up and repeating.

 

[180mmCrank]

This farcical tour came to end today(thankfully) and with an equally farcical performance from Cavendish and Sky at the end of a 3 week tour.

How can anyone believe Sky are not doping after watching that.

Need I say more!

 

[180mmCrank]

You know what kills me the most, is why arent the media asking them what exactly do they mean? and why are they not doing anything about the dirty tours and which dirty tours are we talking about here that this one is clean. Is last years dirty? Did Sastre win Dirty? Is Schlecks win dirty?

And if ASO are declaring this clean why are they not prefacing all the other wins as wins during a non clean era?????

Bullsh!t that the media keeps lapping up and repeating.

I suspect they are all choosing their words very carefully. New Era could simply mean an British winner ... they are as concerned as everyone that the whole thing comes crashing down in a scandle as any of us are. BUT they are not going to say that in public at the clebration of the biggest cycling event in the World.

They are as worried as all of us! They have been through the same ups and downs as the rest of us. AND what is more they are supposed to be accountable for the mess ... the reality is they cant control the riders or the teams.

 

[xcleigh]

This farcical tour came to end today(thankfully) and with an equally farcical performance from Cavendish and Sky at the end of a 3 week tour.

How can anyone believe Sky are not doping after watching that.

Yeah what a disgusting performance from Cavendish. 4 times in a row he's won on the Champs Elysee with a almost perfect leadout from his team each time. tsk tsk. First time with Sky maybe but oh come on that's just gotta be indicative of something? (he did at the world champs too..you blighter you Cav!)

Oh and as for Wiggins taking the mickey on the podium..raffle psshk..that's all the evidence I need of someone up to something... and to quote that other famous English hero..I expect Wiggins (not wigans BTW that's a town oop North) is 'anispeptic, frasmotic, even compunctuous to have caused..such pericombobulation' amongst those Tour fans in the Clinic with an eye on the pesky Sky-dopers (as I have comedically called them; I just don't think UK postal service quite cuts the mustard as a term of comedic insult).

And do you know what really hurts my feelings?? Nerve damage! (take it, it's free, think of it as a bonus cheer up for having 3 weeks of your life ruined by Sky-dopers.....doh!)

And that sirs is why Britain is Great la la la li la

 

[Benotti69]

Yeah what a disgusting performance from Cavendish. 4 times in a row he's won on the Champs Elysee with a almost perfect leadout from his team each time. tsk tsk. First time with Sky maybe but oh come on that's just gotta be indicative of something? (he did at the world champs too..you blighter you Cav!)

Oh and as for Wiggins taking the mickey on the podium..raffle psshk..that's all the evidence I need of someone up to something... and to quote that other famous English hero..I expect Wiggins (not wigans BTW that's a town oop North) is 'anispeptic, frasmotic, even compunctuous to have caused..such pericombobulation' amongst those Tour fans in the Clinic with an eye on the pesky Sky-dopers (as I have comedically called them; I just don't think UK postal service quite cuts the mustard as a term of comedic insult).

And do you know what really hurts my feelings?? Nerve damage! (take it, it's free, think of it as a bonus cheer up for having 3 weeks of your life ruined by Sky-dopers.....doh!)

And that sirs is why Britain is Great la la la li la

'Great' British riders also includes Tommy Simpson and Sean Yates

 

[xcleigh]

'Great' British riders also includes Tommy Simpson and Sean Yates

Yah damn diggity. Yates in a Fagor jersey, classic! Late 80's my schoolmate had a Fagor jersey and an MBK bike to match (shimano ultegra too..dreamy!). I had a go on his bike and fell off it as I'd never used toe clps before and couldn't get my foot down and scratched the bar tape. He was livid (my mate not Sean Yates). Anyway got me into riding seriously. So yeah thanks Sean

Tom Simpson was before my time unfortunately, but I think he had a good sense of humour from what I've read. An admirable trait. Also an unnerving will to win from what I've read too-the undoing of him unfortunately (pushing beyond his limits to win and also the path to doping). C'est La Vie.

 

[180mmCrank]

Yah damn diggity. Yates in a Fagor jersey, classic! Late 80's my schoolmate had a Fagor jersey and an MBK bike to match (shimano ultegra too..dreamy!). I had a go on his bike and fell off it as I'd never used toe clps before and couldn't get my foot down and scratched the bar tape. He was livid (my mate not Sean Yates). Anyway got me into riding seriously. So yeah thanks Sean

Tom Simpson was before my time unfortunately, but I think he had a good sense of humour from what I've read. An admirable trait. Also an unnerving will to win from what I've read too-the undoing of him unfortunately (pushing beyond his limits to win and also the path to doping). C'est La Vie.

Now everyone be nice to the new guy

Some advice @XCL - you might want to tone it down a bit in the clinic or get yourself a flame proof jacket - just saying.

Welcome to the Forum

T

 

[xcleigh]

Now everyone be nice to the new guy

Some advice @XCL - you might want to tone it down a bit in the clinic or get yourself a flame proof jacket - just saying.

Welcome to the Forum

T

Thanks Was just trying to inject some light heartedness into the Forum...sadly lacking at times it appeared to me. It is after all only sport we're discussing (albeit top level/big money sport). But thank you for the welcome and advice, it is much appreciated and duly noted. Now lemme at 'em...lol

 

[HL2037]

Absolutely disgusting. ASO declared Wigans' win as a "new era" in cycling. Are they that naive? The last time ASO declared a "new era" in cycling was during the 99 Tour. It seems the only thing ASO cares about is the mighty euro.

This. It's unbelievable that they seem to think we will fall for the "tour of redemption" again. When all we see is history repeating now with GB instead of USA, Wiggins instead of Armstrong and god knows what instead of EPO.

I gave up on the tour this year. It's just too depressing.

 

[sniper]

Absolutely disgusting. ASO declared Wigans' win as a "new era" in cycling. Are they that naive? The last time ASO declared a "new era" in cycling was during the 99 Tour. It seems the only thing ASO cares about is the mighty euro.

+1

last year McQuaid said the absence of 'trains' in the mountains was evidence of a new clean era.
Now we're supposed to believe the new Sky 'train' heralds a new clean era?

This BS makes my eyes rain.

 

[I Watch Cycling In July]

'...' I expect Wiggins (not wigans BTW that's a town oop North) '...'

Just to help you out cause you're new, Wiggins is called Wigans cause when he left Garmin he mocked them by saying riding for Garmin was a bit like playing for Wigan. He was off to play for Manchester United.

 

[Benotti69]

+1

last year McQuaid said the absence of 'trains' in the mountains was evidence of a new clean era.
Now we're supposed to believe the new Sky 'train' heralds a new clean era?

This BS makes my eyes rain.

+1 and the media like good little doggies just repeat the new mantras year after year.

 

[ultimobici]

Just to help you out cause you're new, Wiggins is called Wigans cause when he left Garmin he mocked them by saying riding for Garmin was a bit like playing for Wigan. He was off to play for Manchester United.

And just to help you out, it was a quiet dig at his father in law who is a Wigan supporter as well as riding for Wigan Wheelers.

 

[Benotti69]

And just to help you out, it was a quiet dig at his father in law who is a Wigan supporter.

and his prefessed love for Armstrong was what, a quiet dig a JV?

 

[gatete]

Why do you want to know? How will that help you?

I ask becasue the reason I mention it is to explain my position not really to inform anyone elses. I am not sure if you have been in a position to KNOW that a performance is clean - I have - so for me it really makes a difference when I personally try to make sense of what we have witnessed over the last few weeks. AND apologies if you have also I am not trying to suggest I have the only valid point of view. I AM strongly suggesting that great performances - that appear unbelievable - are not always achieved through cheating.

AND we have covered this ground before (above) and I am not that interested in another round of people casting doubt on every great sporting achievement wether it is in or isn't in the public domain. Many of the performances that could be discussed here involve people who do not deserve to be dragged into a conversation about cycling and doping.

One thing that I do agree in all this is that as a successful cyclist Wiggins will have navigate all the doping history that has gone before. He will be under scrutiny and suspicion and that is only fair ... but it is not fair to condemn him just because others have cheated in the past.

The logic that great performances (winning the TdF) are achieved through doping means that you can ONLY achieve great performances (winning the TdF) through doping is deeply flawed. It's a little like saying all London buses are red so everything on the road that is red must be a London bus

Looking from a fan stand point I understand what you're saying, hell my favorite two riders of all time are: are you ready for this? Marco Pantani and Alberto Contador, the stuff I question is whether Sky and particularly Wiggo is clean, I really don't have the definite proof he's riding dirty, while I argue that AC got suspended in non PED but got suspended nonetheless, does anybody have a definite proof he's juicing? no but as much as a fan as I am, I know he's charging, just like the unbelieveable performance Sky and of course Wiggins did is telling me that maybe, just maybe he's doping, if you ask me out of the two between Brad or Froome who do I believe the least, I would go with Brad, at least Froome has the youth card to play and arguments of sickness in his earlier carreer, YES Wiggins has by far have been more succesful that Chris but then we're talking (success wise) about a microwave and an oven in comparison, at least Cadel won his tour last year and while I saw a different evans last year and even questioned him a bit to the very least he has been ever so close to getting at least one Grand tour.

If you like Brad as a rider, hey man I'm cool, but to say he's clean ummm, I just don't know.

 

[I Watch Cycling In July]

@180mmCrank,

Thanks for your posts this thread. I take your point to be that not all strong performances are doped, even in dope affected sports. It is an important point in my view. It challenges the theory that it is impossible to ever win clean, because doping gains are so big that every successful athlete/cyclist must be a doper.

None of which changes the fact that Sky's performance angers me. Froom + Rogers + Porte + Wigans? Gimme a break, I'm calling BS on this one. Where I differ from most is that I believe it's possible that not all of those four riders was doping, but I can only guess at which one might be cleaner than the others. So for me, it's not about accusing individual riders, but about accusing the team of at least failing to minimize doping within their squad.

As a side issue, I also really don't like the way that team just buys up so much talent then wastes it. Eddie was pulling the peloton instead of winnin stages, Cav was supported much less than he would be on a non GC team, Froome was prevented from riding to his ful (dodgy) capacity. I feel that the way sky wastes talent is disrespectful to individual riders and to the fans, who want to see the best show what they can do.

 

[stampedingviking]

@180mmCrank,

Thanks for your posts this thread. I take your point to be that not all strong performances are doped, even in dope affected sports. It is an important point in my view. It challenges the theory that it is impossible to ever win clean, because doping gains are so big that every successful athlete/cyclist must be a doper.

None of which changes the fact that Sky's performance angers me. Froom + Rogers + Porte + Wigans? Gimme a break, I'm calling BS on this one. Where I differ from most is that I believe it's possible that not all of those four riders was doping, but I can only guess at which one might be cleaner than the others. So for me, it's not about accusing individual riders, but about accusing the team of at least failing to minimize doping within their squad.

As a side issue, I also really don't like the way that team just buys up so much talent then wastes it. Eddie was pulling the peloton instead of winnin stages, Cav was supported much less than he would be on a non GC team, Froome was prevented from riding to his ful (dodgy) capacity. I feel that the way sky wastes talent is disrespectful to individual riders and to the fans, who want to see the best show what they can do.

So disrespectful that they won the GC?