Most Farcical Tour Ever?

[180mmCrank]

Sounds to me like people's answers in an interview, somehow make them more or less guilty in doping? Not sure thats how it works....

Agree it doesn't really work like that ... But our speculation is typically based on conjecture around what we have access to... Interviews and pseudo science around skimpy bits of data made public. Few if any of us really know anything! It's still fun to speculate

 

[thehog]

Thehog made a good point that even in the Postal years, the leaders of other teams were able to stick with Armstrong until near the end. Postal's domestiques were used to isolate the leaders of other teams. Armstrong would then put in the killing blow at the end of the stage. This year's Tour is even more ludicrous. It would be like watching Popovych destroy Ullrich, Basso, and Beloki. Heck, it is worse than that because at one time Popo was a legitimate contender for a Giro win.

Has any Tour been a bigger farce than this one?

You need to also throw in that Sky lost one guy during the first week and had another dedicated to sprinting with one helper.

In essence they had 4 guys only with Froome and Wiggins. A team of 6 smashing teams of 9!

Even Armstrong would raise an eyebrow at that performance!

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Favorable course + enhanced chemistry - good competition = Sky victory

 

[Ripper]

At last a dirty winner/team and a boring Tour. Nothing more need be said, except that all the moves against doping are coming to fruition and the evidence is there for us all to see. I salute Evans from last year and Wiggins this ........ It's been a joy to watch spoiled only by those who wish to say the bad words. The majority of Tour fans know we have a clean winner, a great winner and nothing else matters. I can now go off and do my 160km today with a smile on my face. Happy! Happy! (However I do feel so sorry for those who want to wallow in their misery and only see the negatives, too bad for them!)

Fixed that for you!

What misery? I have enjoyed a great deal of racing over the past month.

You might feel a little different in a few years, but I don't want to mess with your mood. Enjoy that 160 km.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

I get it - it's difficult to believe.

But the difficult to believe label doesn't do it for me ... because having been involved in high performance sport I have seen people do apparently unbelievable things (without doping), I have done unbelievable things (without doping) ... it's the nature of sport, it's the nature of high performance in sport.

Like someone coming back from cancer to win the Tour clean. Right?

To whom exactly are you referring when you say "unbelievable things without doping"? Just curious.

 

[ggusta]

Really?!

Are we all really that worn down that we can't enjoy a guy like Bradley having worked his @ss off for something and made it happen? It may not be exciting but it's still an incredible feat. Who would have thought that the Brits would have a winner of the Tour!

I think he says it best himself as reported in the following article...
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wiggins-the-tour-is-a-lot-more-human-now

Come on Bro D don’t be so grumpy

T

I can't get too ugly to a mod, but that cash that was left under your pillow a long time ago was not ACTUALLY put there by the tooth fairy. This was an embarrassment and absolutely a farce.

It's like the US invading Grenada. There seemed to have been some sort of competitive balance in existence if not clean (never gonna be, probably never was) then at least evenly doped for the last couple years and here comes the 'we might as well win' Sky train. It goes well beyond credulity being strained.

This is very sad.

 

[pedaling squares]

It's just damn hard to believe in Sky. I can't believe that Dirty Mick suddenly discovered that true power is achieved through clean living. I think it's hilarious that Porte had to move from Dr Riis to Sir David to learn how to perform. I believe that Froome is the biggest joke this sport has seen in many a year. And if I cannot believe in those guys, I cannot believe in the clean team or that their attention to detail and new philosophies have led to massive, not marginal, gains. And I don't really believe that Wiggins transformed from an exceptional short distance rider to the most powerful time TT rider in the sport, losing masses of weight in the process, through proper diet and training.

Wiggins' lovely letter to his fans does nothing for me. I've seen too many people with everything to lose choose to cheat to believe that Bradley's affection for his in-laws and GB Cycling keeps him on the straight and narrow.

Other factors like Dr Leinders and the Tenerife training camps raise the brows a little, but it's what I see on the road that makes me think these guys are a farce.

 

[pedaling squares]

"Friggins" and "The Puertobus" have been the two best things about this tour. At least I can thank Sky for that.

 

[mastersracer]

Dekker and Foxy are right - Wiggins won because of a weak field and a weak route. He'll be a one-off Tour winner. That's OK, since he'll likely be the first Tour winner and Olympic ITT gold medalist. Pics of Cav and Wiggins with their gold medals in a few weeks (and the Sky track cyclists) should delight the conspiracy theorists here.

 

[thehog]

It's just damn hard to believe in Sky. I can't believe that Dirty Mick suddenly discovered that true power is achieved through clean living. I think it's hilarious that Porte had to move from Dr Riis to Sir David to learn how to perform. I believe that Froome is the biggest joke this sport has seen in many a year. And if I cannot believe in those guys, I cannot believe in the clean team or that their attention to detail and new philosophies have led to massive, not marginal, gains. And I don't really believe that Wiggins transformed from an exceptional short distance rider to the most powerful time TT rider in the sport, losing masses of weight in the process, through proper diet and training.

Wiggins' lovely letter to his fans does nothing for me. I've seen too many people with everything to lose choose to cheat to believe that Bradley's affection for his in-laws and GB Cycling keeps him on the straight and narrow.

Other factors like Dr Leinders and the Tenerife training camps raise the brows a little, but it's what I see on the road that makes me think these guys are a farce.

I can't remember a Tour where every other team was so nondescript.

Outside of Sagan I don't remember 60% of the teams in the race. It was just Sky from day 1.

Even in the Armstrong days you'd certainly see CSC/T-Mobile featuring in the race.

 

[mastersracer]

I can't remember a Tour where every other team was so nondescript.

Outside of Sagan I don't remember 60% of the teams in the race. It was just Sky from day 1.

Even in the Armstrong days you'd certainly see CSC/T-Mobile featuring in the race.

maybe that's because either their team leader wasn't there or crashed in the first week. The GC race was incredibly slim this year.

 

[thehog]

maybe that's because either their team leader wasn't there or crashed in the first week. The GC race was incredibly slim this year.

2 of the top 3 from last year were there. 4 Tour of Spain winners. 2 Giro winners. Tour of California winner. Last year's winner was also there. Throw in a VDB here and there and I say you had a very strong field. They were just made to look stupid.

Only guys missing were Contador and Shleck.

I say Sky just rode way too fast for anyone to do anything. But I think you knew that.

Tell us some more numbers and physiology. You're much better at that game.

 

[BroDeal]

I can't remember a Tour where every other team was so nondescript.

Outside of Sagan I don't remember 60% of the teams in the race. It was just Sky from day 1.

Even in the Armstrong days you'd certainly see CSC/T-Mobile featuring in the race.

I think it is a pretty good bet that McQuaid paved the way. In corrupt hands, the passport presents an incredible opportunity to manipulate the sport. A warning here or there and whole teams can be neutered. We know for a fact that the UCI has warned riders before.

I wonder when it will be time for the French to win again. It would be a massive boon to the ASO.

 

[180mmCrank]

I can't get too ugly to a mod, but that cash that was left under your pillow a long time ago was not ACTUALLY put there by the tooth fairy. This was an embarrassment and absolutely a farce.

It's like the US invading Grenada. There seemed to have been some sort of competitive balance in existence if not clean (never gonna be, probably never was) then at least evenly doped for the last couple years and here comes the 'we might as well win' Sky train. It goes well beyond credulity being strained.

This is very sad.

"It's like the US invading Granada" Seriously!

T

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

What's so freakin encouraging about the top 2 doing 6.0 w/kg (albeit for merely ~25 minutes) on finishing climbs of multi-col stages in the 3rd week of the Tour with one of them holding back? Was there any reason to expect even higher numbers in a GT not including Bert & Andy? Ich don't think so.

 

[Ferminal]

The biggest problem with this years Tour is you have a large bunch of riders who never should have been there. These riders were chemical inventions, They never should have stood on podiums let alone been leaders of a team focused around them.

We started the Tour with a normal list of 20-40 riders who would animate the race. it turns 20 of those riders got their skill through a needle. Instead of having a bunch of animators we had a bunch of guys struggling to hang on to a group that is climbing 10% slower then 10 years ago.

Time for those guys to retire and let riders with talent that does not come in a needle have some time

Zubeldia?

 

[180mmCrank]

Like someone coming back from cancer to win the Tour clean. Right?

To whom exactly are you referring when you say "unbelievable things without doping"? Just curious.

Gosh where to start. Lots of performances that are not in the public domain and then lots that are...

Here is one that comes to mind

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9Ave90kGpQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player

...and my only concern with quoting examples is that this turns into some witch hunt where we try to discredit every significant sporting achievement presented. But trusting that this is not your motive. The above is a video of an unknown pair of brothers who defeated the 7 times world champions in an unbelievable fashion at the 1992 Olympics. Watch it it's fun - listen to the last 5 seconds of the video.

I could post things like this all night but I am not convinced that this will persuade anyone of anything. We will all believe what we choose to believe.

AND please please no one post that this is different from the TdF. I was asked to show that there are performances in sport that are difficult to believe but happen without doping and here is one.

 

[D-Queued]

Gosh where to start. Lots of performances that are not in the public domain and then lots that are...

Here is one that comes to mind

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9Ave90kGpQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player

...and my only concern with quoting examples is that this turns into some witch hunt where we try to discredit every significant sporting achievement presented. But trusting that this is not your motive. The above is a video of an unknown pair of brothers who defeated the 7 times world champions in an unbelievable fashion at the 1992 Olympics. Watch it it's fun - listen to the last 5 seconds of the video.

I could post things like this all night but I am not convinced that this will persuade anyone of anything. We will all believe what we choose to believe.

AND please please no one post that this is different from the TdF. I was asked to show that there are performances in sport that are difficult to believe but happen without doping and here is one.

No, it is exactly the same.

Teammates drafting though multiple stages over arduous courses with HUGE money available. Both sports with 'hole-in-one' insurance contracts and massive endorsement deals.

And both sports with incredible and well-known legacies of doping. Both sports were so bad in 1998 that WADA was created.



Have you participated in either sport? If you have rowed, have you even seen a coxed pair?

Dave.

 

[Race Radio]

I agree with this, but it only explains why Leipheimer/Vino/Scarponi/Valverde are getting dropped by the GC group.

i mean, there's no doubt that Jingleheimer is off the gear and that's why he was so horrendous. but then there's guys like Porte and Rogers riding tempo on a finishing climb and shelling off all but 4 other guys, what's the explanation for that? how are they all of a sudden able to not only climb with guys they would have had no business climbing with even last season, but now are able to ride so hard for so long that they prevent them from attacking at all?

people mention Liquigas doing the same thing at the Giro, but it didn't work. Szmyd was useless in the 3rd week, as he should be after drilling at the front for an entire week of climbing. and Basso ended up isolated pretty early even in the 2nd week.

Each team has 1-3 guys who are supposed to do something, Climb, Sprint, Attack. A big chunk of them did nothing this Tour. They guys that work for them set them up and they did nothing. Many of the animators were frauds. In an environment where they get testing 20+ times a year and their doctors are getting arrested they suddenly don't animate the race anymore.

Guys that used to dominate are getting dropped by guys doing a fraction of what led the Tour 10 years ago. Time to let some new guys get a chance

 

[180mmCrank]

No, it is exactly the same.

Teammates drafting though multiple stages over arduous courses with HUGE money available. Both sports with 'hole-in-one' insurance contracts and massive endorsement deals.

And both sports with incredible and well-known legacies of doping. Both sports were so bad in 1998 that WADA was created.



Have you participated in either sport? If you have rowed, have you even seen a coxed pair?

Dave.

I despair. Maybe someone can explain what I meant because I have a feeling that I will lose a small part of my sanity trying.

For the record I do know what I am talking about. I was there in 1992 competing it was my second Olympic Games - The two brothers in the video are very good friends of mine.

AND yes doping was part of rowing but it was essentially limited to Eastern European Countries and Soviet athletes.

AND I may be missing what YOU are trying to say apologies if that's the case.

T

 

[Dr.Sahl]

Or he is just "Bradley Wiggins" a guy that was very good on the track and then got good on the road

Let me guess..

If Mørkøv comes back next year and wins the tour by smashing all oppenets like wiggins did, you would just say "But he was WC Gold medalist and OL medalist many times in track he is clean"


Give me a break...

Even the riders in the peleton are suggesting Sky overdoping...

"Crawls back into his cave"

 

[Dr.Sahl]

I was actually happy about a few commentator reactions yesterday, both in my home country and other places I found.

They said stuff like.

Wiggins is no "Great Champion" but merely a guy that won a tailored route without the 2 main contenders "ofc ref to AC/AS"

Others wrote.

"A poor route lead to a boring win for wiggins"

"Sky's USP like grip on the peleton killed the tour"

I guess, thats as close as we get too them saying something is wrong.

 

[180mmCrank]

Let me guess..

If Mørkøv comes back next year and wins the tour by smashing all oppenets like wiggins did, you would just say "But he was WC Gold medalist and OL medalist many times in track he is clean"


Give me a break...

Even the riders in the peleton are suggesting Sky overdoping...

"Crawls back into his cave"

No I wouldn't say any such thing

What riders are saying SKY are doping? Not that ridiculous Nibali thread?


BUT I guess the last 24 hours has kind of got me convinced that we should consider renaming the clinic ... "abandon hope all ye who enter here"

I think I will get my coat and slip quietly back into the shadows.

All good

T

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Gosh where to start. Lots of performances that are not in the public domain and then lots that are...

Here is one that comes to mind

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9Ave90kGpQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player

...and my only concern with quoting examples is that this turns into some witch hunt where we try to discredit every significant sporting achievement presented. But trusting that this is not your motive. The above is a video of an unknown pair of brothers who defeated the 7 times world champions in an unbelievable fashion at the 1992 Olympics. Watch it it's fun - listen to the last 5 seconds of the video.

I could post things like this all night but I am not convinced that this will persuade anyone of anything. We will all believe what we choose to believe.

AND please please no one post that this is different from the TdF. I was asked to show that there are performances in sport that are difficult to believe but happen without doping and here is one.

That's it? One example from rowing? How is that an incredible and clean performance?

Oh, that's right. They're Brits.

National partisanship takes the day. I see a lot more British fans than cycling fans here these days. Look, I'd be happy if a Romanian won the TdF, but if the won it like Sky, I'd be disgusted.

 

[DirtyWorks]

I think it is a pretty good bet that McQuaid paved the way. In corrupt hands, the passport presents an incredible opportunity to manipulate the sport. A warning here or there and whole teams can be neutered. We know for a fact that the UCI has warned riders before.

I wonder when it will be time for the French to win again. It would be a massive boon to the ASO.

Well, sure... Pat suppresses the positives too!!!