Most overrated (good) rider in the peloton?

[Peyroteo94]

Losing 1 minute or more to guys like Simon Yates, Carapaz, Gee and Pellizzari on a climb like San Valentino however, do indicate that.

Why are you focusing on one stage and forget all the rest? Why many times did he drop Yates?

 

[ingsve]

The problem is that there is no set rating for anyone. It varies between people and it varies over time. You could easily say that if every rider was evaluated based on the highest they've ever been rated by people then almost everyone would be overrated. But ratings change over time and is often adjusted based on performance. You can say that a rider hasn't lived up to expectations more easily at least but if a rider stagnates and his rating drops, are they still overrated?

Perhaps the term is best reserved for riders that live on their reputation more than anything. I would say that until this Vuelta that Jay Hindley has been overrated in the past few years because people still view him as a GT contender even though it was many years since he showed anything of that level until now.

Right now a rider that perhaps is still riding on his reputation is Tao Geoghegan Hart. He does enough smallish results that he keeps hope alive in some people that he might actually be "back to his best again, just you wait".

Then there is the whole issue of national pride that messes with ratings. I hope it's clear to everyone that Jacob Söderqvist is the next Cancellara who will win monuments left and right. That goes without saying.

 

[Brullnux]

Brennan is a 1st year WT rider, younger than Del Toro, and has beaten the best in the world at his specialist disciplins.

Del Toro meanwhile was supposed to be the best in the Giro midway through, got convincingly beaten by it's C-tier field, and has avoiding C-Tier fields ever since in favor of mowing like E-tier fields figuratively, and Giulio Ciccone literally.

I don't think the Giro this year had a C-Tier field. There's only maybe five riders who I'd say are in a 'superior' tier to anyone in this year's Giro; one of them crashed out of the race, and two of them are Del Toro's teammates.

I guess it's C-Tier if we say Pogacar/Vingegaard are A tier; Remco/Roglic/Almeida B tier. But it feels too exclusive/lop-sided to have just five riders in the first two tiers, to be honest. Either way, I think the fight for the Giro title was similar in calibre to the fight for the Tour podium.

 

[Red Rick]

I don't think the Giro this year had a C-Tier field. There's only maybe five riders who I'd say are in a 'superior' tier to anyone in this year's Giro; one of them crashed out of the race, and two of them are Del Toro's teammates.

I judge it by the final top 10, not by the startlist.

 

[Brullnux]

I judge it by the final top 10, not by the startlist.

Still, it wasn't really far off the Tour top ten outside of Pogacar and Vingegaard.

 

[AlfaLum]

The final top-10 in the Giro has mediocre GC riders in it every year…

 

[red_flanders]

Del Toro is more in the “Who most outperformed expectations this year” convo…

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Yeah as a certified UAE hater I struggle to see how a 21yo who finish 2nd on a grand tour, won l'avenir easily and has 13 pro wins, os overrated

 

[Red Rick]

Yeah as a certified UAE hater I struggle to see how a 21yo who finish 2nd on a grand tour, won l'avenir easily and has 13 pro wins, os overrated

20 pages into this thread and we're still not getting that overrated is a relative term, not an absolute term.

 

[red_flanders]

20 pages into this thread and we're still not getting that overrated is a relative term, not an absolute term.

It's definitely a subjective term.

Underrated is probably a more fun, more positive question.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

20 pages into this thread and we're still not getting that overrated is a relative term, not an absolute term.

Has anyone even written any clear prediction for his career or do you just go: „Everyone thinks he‘s gonna win this .1, he Must be overrated.“ and then he wins it?

 

[Berniece]

Has anyone even written any clear prediction for his career or do you just go: „Everyone thinks he‘s gonna win this .1, he Must be overrated.“ and then he wins it?

There are people that think he can become WC this year

 

[ChasingPotatoes]

He won't get close, just like Cancellara wouldn't get remotely close to his current palmares if he was 10-15 years younger and rode in the current era.

Cancellara would still be a contender for the win in Roubaix and Flanders while competing for the world TT. Ganna only shows he’s able to do the latter, and besides a podium in San Remo, he doesn’t have one day race pedigree like Cancellara.

 

[Peyroteo94]

He won't get close, just like Cancellara wouldn't get remotely close to his current palmares if he was 10-15 years younger and rode in the current era.

Like MVP wouldn't have the same palmares if Cancellara or Boonen were around.
This talk about how good is the current era compared to the previous era is a bit ridiculous. I do think this current era is better but I don't think the gap is big. I remember seeing Roglic unable to compete with Froome for example in GTs. He was beaten by a 34 years old Nibali in the Giro 2019.
And saying Ganna was a better TT rider than Cancellara is just ridiculous.

 

[Psycat]

Find it funny that people on here freak out if you mention Del Toro, whom got so much tv hype during the giro that you would be inclinced to believe he is a shoe in for a handful of GT wins in his career, but are completely fine with someone like Roglic being an option in the poll despite that, barring one rather delusional poster on here, nobody in their right mind expect him to compete for a GT again.. and even then I would say he is likelier to win one in the upcoming year than Del Toro is.

Just an example of course and ive seen Del Toro being heralded as the next Pogacar more than once, I don't doubt that he will repeat a podium in some GT, with the best of the best abscent, and win a stage here and there but that(to me) also seems to be the limit.

Could very well be wrong but then again so could anyone mentioning Cian, Ayuso, Pedersen or whatever and yet they don't have half the supporters jumping in to shut down any detractor, which leads me to believe I am on to something believing the Bull is indeed, atleast somewhat, overrated.

 

[greyclouds]

Cancellara would still be a contender for the win in Roubaix and Flanders while competing for the world TT. Ganna only shows he’s able to do the latter, and besides a podium in San Remo, he doesn’t have one day race pedigree like Cancellara.

Ganna doesn’t have a single one-day race victory

 

[Peyroteo94]

Ganna doesn’t have a single one-day race victory

And has 7 wins outside of TTs. Only 1 in the WT.

 

[42x16ss]

I think he had Valverde syndrome of failing to attack enough to take advantage of his talent superiority at times.

Only 1 podium at Amstel Gold Race stands out as a race he should have won back in an era when the race didn’t kick off an hour from the finish.

Indeed. A rider of Matthews' ability should have at least an MSR, Amstel and WC win, along with a couple of top results at Flanders. I do think Sagan also got into his head early in his career

 

[Brullnux]

Cancellara would still be a contender for the win in Roubaix and Flanders while competing for the world TT. Ganna only shows he’s able to do the latter, and besides a podium in San Remo, he doesn’t have one day race pedigree like Cancellara.

I don't think anybody doubts Cancellara is much the better classics rider – he was incredibly versatile, could climb well, sprint well, and had ridiculous endurance.

I do doubt whether the gap between Ganna and Cancellara's TT ability is particularly big. It's difficult to understate how weak the field was in World Championship ITTs was pre Martin. Cancellara was beating Vino, László Bodrogi, David Zabriskie, Larsson. Guys who either aren't specialists (Vino), or guys with a handful of pro victories. He has the same number of non-prologue TT wins in grand tours than Ganna!

Besides, if we go back to the point of the conversation, I still don't see how Ganna can be considered overrated in TTs. He wins over half of the ones he partakes in, and is the clear second best in the world. Nobody thinks he's better than Remco. He's better than everyone else. And I don't think losing to Remco, a freak of nature, is a sign of him being overrated.

 

[hayneplane]

I don't think anybody doubts Cancellara is much the better classics rider – he was incredibly versatile, could climb well, sprint well, and had ridiculous endurance.

I do doubt whether the gap between Ganna and Cancellara's TT ability is particularly big. It's difficult to understate how weak the field was in World Championship ITTs was pre Martin. Cancellara was beating Vino, László Bodrogi, David Zabriskie, Larsson. Guys who either aren't specialists (Vino), or guys with a handful of pro victories. He has the same number of non-prologue TT wins in grand tours than Ganna!

Besides, if we go back to the point of the conversation, I still don't see how Ganna can be considered overrated in TTs. He wins over half of the ones he partakes in, and is the clear second best in the world. Nobody thinks he's better than Remco. He's better than everyone else. And I don't think losing to Remco, a freak of nature, is a sign of him being overrated.

It’s not like the current TT rivals have lots of wins elsewhere other than Remco and Van Aert. The likes of Kung/Bissegger/Cavagna don’t have many wins on the road.

 

[Brullnux]

It’s not like the current TT rivals have lots of wins elsewhere other than Remco and Van Aert. The likes of Kung/Bissegger/Cavagna don’t have many wins on the road.

Kung has 30 career wins and Tarling will end up without about that, too, but that's basically my point. Cancellara's competition during his TT WC dominance was the equivalent of those three, and he'd win every time – like Ganna does. Cancellara was ousted by a better time triallist in Martin, just as Ganna was by Remco. It just so happened that Ganna had like two years as an actual pro before that happened, Cancellara had five or six, so Cancellara's TT palmares is better.

 

[Netserk]

Kung has 30 career wins and Tarling will end up without about that, too, but that's basically my point. Cancellara's competition during his TT WC dominance was the equivalent of those three, and he'd win every time – like Ganna does. Cancellara was ousted by a better time triallist in Martin, just as Ganna was by Remco. It just so happened that Ganna had like two years as an actual pro before that happened, Cancellara had five or six, so Cancellara's TT palmares is better.

The WCTT was a niche target in the 00s, the best riders peaked for the Tour.

Rogers was never a better TTer than Armstrong.

 

[Brullnux]

The WCTT was a niche target in the 00s, the best riders peaked for the Tour.

Rogers was never a better TTer than Armstrong.

Exactly, and it's not like Cancellara has a plethora of Tour TT wins outside of prologues (two on the road). Imo Remco is definitely a better TTer than Cancellara ever was, and Ganna is quite close.

 

[Netserk]

Cancellara was the goat prologue specialist.

 

[greyclouds]

And has 7 wins outside of TTs. Only 1 in the WT.

And it was a Giro breakaway stage in 2020 maybe... He's a greater TTer (even if not the best in the world...) but Ganna's project as a GC and classics man is totally overated.