Motor doping thread

[Maxiton]

Re:

UCI laid our their case, and test every bike of every team during recent races . . .

Have they? That's news to me.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

UCI laid our their case, and test every bike of every team during recent races . . .

Have they? That's news to me.

Pretty sure they said after stage 1 of the Giro that they had checked 500 bikes.

 

[Maxiton]

Re: Re:

UCI laid our their case, and test every bike of every team during recent races . . .

Have they? That's news to me.

Pretty sure they said after stage 1 of the Giro that they had checked 500 bikes.

Perhaps they have. But that's not "every bike of every team during recent races".

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

UCI laid our their case, and test every bike of every team during recent races . . .

Have they? That's news to me.

Pretty sure they said after stage 1 of the Giro that they had checked 500 bikes.

Perhaps they have. But that's not "every bike of every team during recent races".

You are right, but 500 (mind, not even 200 start so they also check Alberto's spare bike and his spare spare bike) on one stage is pretty good for starters

 

[Tienus]

Plenty of riders claim their bikes have not been checked at a recent race.

 

[Maxiton]

Re:

Plenty of riders claim their bikes have not been checked at a recent race.

Correct. And if they don't tag and sequester the bikes after checking, it means nothing, it's just for show.

 

[jilbiker]

Anyone seen this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wv5F5N6mFf0

Interesting. The pedal spinning on its own kind of reminds me of Heyjedal's bike. The motor for mountain kicks in at a certain cadence, I would say that pros using it probably have top of the range.

 

[Zypherov]

How about this video. A Lemond bike fitted with a hidden motor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKgJ_Uhwfno

 

[Irondan]

Re:

How about this video. A Lemond bike fitted with a hidden motor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKgJ_Uhwfno

Much noisier than I thought it would be.

I wonder if the noise would be noticeable in the peloton...

 

[Zypherov]

Re: Re:

How about this video. A Lemond bike fitted with a hidden motor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKgJ_Uhwfno

Much noisier than I thought it would be.

I wonder if the noise would be noticeable in the peloton...

Yes, good point. Its quite possible that you could hear it. Definitely in a small group at the very least.

 

[Hawkwood]

Re:

Anyone seen this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wv5F5N6mFf0

Interesting. The pedal spinning on its own kind of reminds me of Heyjedal's bike. The motor for mountain kicks in at a certain cadence, I would say that pros using it probably have top of the range.

Do you mean the Ryder Hesjedal crash video? If so the pedals didn't move.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

How about this video. A Lemond bike fitted with a hidden motor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKgJ_Uhwfno

Much noisier than I thought it would be.

I wonder if the noise would be noticeable in the peloton...

Yes, good point. Its quite possible that you could hear it. Definitely in a small group at the very least.

remember, there were rumors of motorsound coming from cancellaras bike in 2010.
The main manufacturer (forgot the name) improved the system, however, so that at present, the state of the art systems should be close to noiseless.

 

[Irondan]

Re: Re:

How about this video. A Lemond bike fitted with a hidden motor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKgJ_Uhwfno

Much noisier than I thought it would be.

I wonder if the noise would be noticeable in the peloton...

Yes, good point. Its quite possible that you could hear it. Definitely in a small group at the very least.

remember, there were rumors of motorsound coming from cancellaras bike in 2010.
The main manufacturer (forgot the name) improved the system, however, so that atesent, the state of the art systems should be close to noiseless.

I remember. Do you remember if these rumors have ever been talked about by a rider or staff member in a team?

 

[jmdirt]

Re:

How about this video. A Lemond bike fitted with a hidden motor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKgJ_Uhwfno

Now we know how Greg won!

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

How about this video. A Lemond bike fitted with a hidden motor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKgJ_Uhwfno

Much noisier than I thought it would be.

I wonder if the noise would be noticeable in the peloton...

Yes, good point. Its quite possible that you could hear it. Definitely in a small group at the very least.

remember, there were rumors of motorsound coming from cancellaras bike in 2010.
The main manufacturer (forgot the name) improved the system, however, so that atesent, the state of the art systems should be close to noiseless.

I remember. Do you remember if these rumors have ever been talked about by a rider or staff member in a team?

apparently there was a French rider who spoke about it in cyclismas magazine, but he remained anonymous:
viewtopic.php?p=1682495#p1682495
(btw: the cyclismas link in that markene post doesn't work for me right now. It did work back then)

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Your link sir

http://wayback.archive.org/web/20101120061357/http://cyclismag.com/article.php?sid=5737

La rumeur Cancellara

Le secret de Fabian Cancellara ? Une dynamo dissimulée dans son pédalier, qui lui permettrait d'avancer plus vite. Le fantasme est d'autant plus drôle qu'il s'est transformé en rumeur au sein du peloton. Un coureur français a rapporté à http://www.cyclismag.com ce "bruit" étonnant. Ceux qui y croient vraiment brandissent comme argument les multiples changements de vélo que Cancellara opère en pleine course. C'est déjà plus original que des soupçons de dopage !

Google translate...

Cancellara Rumor

Le secret of Fabian Cancellara? A dynamo hidden in his pedal, allowing it to move faster. The fantasy is all the more funny it turned into a rumor in the peloton. A French rider reported to http://www.cyclismag.com this amazing "noise". Those who really believe brandish argument as the many changes of bike Cancellara operates at full speed. This is already more original than the doping suspicions!

 

[wrinklyvet]

Re:

Your link sir

http://wayback.archive.org/web/20101120061357/http://cyclismag.com/article.php?sid=5737

La rumeur Cancellara

Le secret de Fabian Cancellara ? Une dynamo dissimulée dans son pédalier, qui lui permettrait d'avancer plus vite. Le fantasme est d'autant plus drôle qu'il s'est transformé en rumeur au sein du peloton. Un coureur français a rapporté à http://www.cyclismag.com ce "bruit" étonnant. Ceux qui y croient vraiment brandissent comme argument les multiples changements de vélo que Cancellara opère en pleine course. C'est déjà plus original que des soupçons de dopage !

Google translate...

Cancellara Rumor

Le secret of Fabian Cancellara? A dynamo hidden in his pedal, allowing it to move faster. The fantasy is all the more funny it turned into a rumor in the peloton. A French rider reported to http://www.cyclismag.com this amazing "noise". Those who really believe brandish argument as the many changes of bike Cancellara operates at full speed. This is already more original than the doping suspicions!

I think the more appropriate order of words is "brandish as argument the many changes" and "in full race" or "during the race" rather than "at full speed."

 

[jmdirt]

Re: Re:

Anyone seen this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wv5F5N6mFf0

Interesting. The pedal spinning on its own kind of reminds me of Heyjedal's bike. The motor for mountain kicks in at a certain cadence, I would say that pros using it probably have top of the range.

Do you mean the Ryder Hesjedal crash video? If so the pedals didn't move.

Yes. I think that the accusation against RH was for using a hub motor not the BB motor (because of the crank not spinning).

EDIT: This guys commentary is funny! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwXzUwTFMxc

 

[doperhopper]

Re: Moto-fraud: first rider caught

So, basically, the question is not anymore "Where are the motors?" but rather "Where aren't?".
(similar to traditional doping perception that went from "Who dopes?" to "Anyone cleanish?").

After the usual suspects, bottom bracket area and wheel hubs there appeared this "magnetic wheel" theory, and now pedals. Another obvious suspect should be the rear derailleur, there are already motors in electronic versions (though the propulsion via these two little pulley wheels would probably not be super efficient). Then, why not also chain (maybe some weird supermicromotors, or interaction of magnetized links with other components nearby?), or even tires (either something similar to the "mag wheel", or some moving element inside)... and last but not least, why not also "one-time kick" devices (in sprint/attack, one tiny km/h can be the winning marginal gain) like air pressure "rocket" engine (no weight penalty, and you have the whole frame volume at your disposal, though the hissing noise would probably be a showstopper).

 

[Quantumsoda]

Well, that's a small step to canned beans tailwind doping.

 

[happychappy]

Re: Re:

How about this video. A Lemond bike fitted with a hidden motor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKgJ_Uhwfno

Now we know how Greg won!

Yeah, we do. Good old fashioned blood doping and hormones

 

[Zypherov]

Re: Re:

How about this video. A Lemond bike fitted with a hidden motor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKgJ_Uhwfno

Now we know how Greg won!

Yeah, we do. Good old fashioned blood doping and hormones

Yep, Lemond was always a great innovator in cycling technology.....

 

[Popchu]

Don't know if it's a good source, but ...

‏@CyclingiQ
Singha Infinite has dubious honour of being 1st team in the Asia Tour to be DQ'd from race for technological fraud (UCI Article 12.1.013)

 

[Popchu]

Peter Pouly won the last stage of 'Tour de Banyuwangi Ijen', but is disqualified. Reason is a bit unclear (they refer to Article 12.1.013).

‏@CyclingiQ
This Facebook post from Peter Pouly now looks very much like the 'it's not my bike' alibi...

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Peter Pouly: 38-year-old part-time bike mechanic who suddenly started beating Tabriz Petrochemical Team in the Tour de Ijen thanks to three straight victories in the MTF at the Ijen Crater. Ijen is the only pro race he does anything in most years.

2014 Ijen Crater stage:
1 Peter Pouly
2 Hossein Askari (Pishgaman Yazd) +51"
3 Amir Zargari (Pishgaman Yazd) +1'40"
4 Amir Kolahdouz (Tabriz Petrochemical Team) +1'40"
5 Mirsamad Pourseyedi (Tabriz Petrochemical Team) +2'42"

At this point, he had no international results to speak of as a roadie and only some decent amateur MTB background from about a decade earlier.

In 2015, he returned:
1 Peter Pouly
2 Daniel Whitehouse (Team Ukyo) +1'35"
3 Benjami Prades Reverter (Matrix-Powertag) +3'20"
4 Saeid Safarzadeh (Tabriz Shahrdari Team) +3'31"
5 Edgar Pinto (Sky Dive Dubai) +3'31"

Less of the Iranian motorbikes (Safarzadeh is nothing like the level of ridiculousness of Pourseyedi, Rahim Emami or Askari) but for reference, Edgar Pinto was 5th in the Volta a Portugal in 2014.

Based on these performances, after the Tour de Ijen he was signed by the Iranian Pishgaman Yazd team and rode the Tour of Japan, however he was over 20 minutes down, and was utterly annihilated by Mirsamad Pourseyedi in the 11km Mount Fuji hillclimb, losing 10 minutes. Three teammates - Rahim Emami (himself a formerly busted doper), Askari and Zargari (those riders he annihilated on the Ijen Crater 12 months earlier) were 2nd, 3rd and 4th and Pouly was nowhere just two weeks after his display in Indonesia. Those people he beat on the Ijen Crater? Well, Whitehouse was 13th to Mount Fuji (+2'28" from Mirsamad), Prades was 17th (+3'11") and Pinto was just outside the top 20 on the stage, so their levels relative to one another did not change drastically.

This year, Pouly's dominance at the Crater was even greater than usual, albeit helped enormously by the race being coterminous with the Iranian national championships, which has meant that Tabriz and Pishgaman Yazd have neglected to compete.
1 Peter Pouly (Singha Infinite)
2 David Jai Crawford (Kinan Team) +2'26
3 Bambang Suryadi (Black Inc Cycling Team) +4'27
4 Logan Griffin (Black Inc Cycling Team) +5'07
5 Benjami Prades Reverter (Team Ukyo) +5'16

So you can see the relative performance of Prades year on year that allows you to compare. Also for reference, Daniel Whitehouse was 8th, +5'25, riding for the Malaysian Terengganu team. Prades is in his early 30s (33 I believe) at this point, but Whitehouse should in theory be getting stronger, as he's just 21. Also, in 6th on the same time as Prades was Ricardo García, former WT domestique who's still just 28.

While opinion on the value of many of the UCI Asia Tour races varies, it definitely remains quite undoubtably the case that Pouly is one of the biggest "alarm bells ringing" case in recent years.