MTB: Roel Paulissen Positive

[onefastgear]

Roel Paulissen (Cannondale Factory Racing), current Belgian XC Champ and former UCI Marathon MTB Champ tests positive (A+B) for clomiphene.

From BikePure:

http://twitter.com/BikePure/status/18697760246

Roel's last tweet:

http://twitter.com/Fastroel/status/18386442046

Does he go the Omerta path, or does he 'do the Kohl' and lift the lid on doping in elite MTB circles?

EDIT: from the CN front page (oops I check the forums first). Looks like he's unsure of how this could all be? Ah, the ol' dietary suppliment chestnut.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cannondale-factory-racing-drops-paulissen-after-positive-test
(Not sure whether this is the right forum as he's a MTBer, mods please move as appropriate)

 

[Morgazano]

Yeah not good for Mtb. Plus he is actually the current World Marathon Champ. Roel won't be dobbing anyone in. He is from Belgium, doping there is like taking tick-tacs.

 

[Mr.38%]

Clomiphene citrate, an antiestrogen, is being used during PCT (an other popular one is tamoxifen). PCT on the other hand is only required after usage of very high doses of steroids (T >50 mg ed), which would undoubtly show up in drug tests as supranatural concentration - no need to look for metabolites. So Paulissens argument may be valid.

 

[Darryl Webster]

About as performing enhancing as having a spliff!.

Half the banned list is more about politics than genuine health risk or performance enhancement these days.
It`s utter bolex.

 

[Mr.38%]

Diuretics will not help you either, neither will other masking agents...

 

[Rip:30]

About as performing enhancing as having a spliff!.

Half the banned list is more about politics than genuine health risk or performance enhancement these days.
It`s utter bolex.

It's an estrogen receptor blocker, and is probably used to prevent the dreaded moob (man-boob) growth after taking a bunch of anabolics.

 

[this_is_edie]

Wasn't Rory Sutherland popped for the same thing years ago?

 

[onefastgear]

Wikipedia says so.

I do wonder about what Mr. 38% says. How come if he was using this for it's "intended purpose" (in the PED sense), he didn't go positive for the anabolic that he hypothetically would have used initially?

Is there either a time lag between the androgen cycle and the clomiphene, or the androgen clears faster?

As for the contamination hypothesis, I always thought that these drugs were specifically manufactured, and therefore some clomiphene finding its way into, say, a creatine supplement or similar would be quite unlikely.

I'm also ignorant of how these drugs are specifically tested - ELISA, mass spectrometry? Is there a chance of a false positive this way?

Sorry if these are noob questions. I'm knee deep in exam study (physiology) atm. Between the books and Le Tour I have little time for extra-curricular reading. Just wait until I'm doing my Pharmacology exam in March.

 

[Mr.38%]

PCT starts after the exogen substance has been absorbed by the system. You are on Test, you inject the last dose, you wait x days depending on ester (TP ~ 4-5 days, TE ~2-3 weeks), you start with a high dose of your favourite anti estrogen, you lower the dose until you administer therapeutic doses and continue for at least 4 weeks.

BUT: As I mentioned PCT is only required for steroid doses WAY beyond everything useful for endurance athletes. AND: The probability of getting caught is extremely high during steroid use and during PCT. No athlete of Paulisens caliber is an idiot (otherwise he wouldn't be there).

 

[alvynmcq]

If he was using a short acting Test then it would clear the system very quickly, clomid on the other hand has a long clearance time.

Pretty obvious that he was on PCT after a test cycle.

 

[Mr.38%]

Let me repeat, maybe you get it: If you need PCT after administration of T as a cyclist with controls after more or less every race and training controls you would have been caught much earlier with insane T/epiT ratios and other abnormal endocrine values (zero LH, zero FSH etc.).

 

[alvynmcq]

So you don't think you would need PCT after running a low dose endurance protocol of test? So test doesn't shut you down on low doses? Also you seem to be implying that people don't use other drugs to keep test/epi test in check? Running clomid was stupid due to it's long half life, he should hace stuck to using HCG for PCT.

 

[El Pistolero]

Yeah not good for Mtb. Plus he is actually the current World Marathon Champ. Roel won't be dobbing anyone in. He is from Belgium, doping there is like taking tick-tacs.

No, that's Spain and Italy. Don't confuse those countries with Belgium.

Any professional Belgian cyclist that's still active you want to accuse of doping?

 

[Mr.38%]

So you don't think you would need PCT after running a low dose endurance protocol of test?

Not required. Why? See next point.

So test doesn't shut you down on low doses?

Not if you are caucasian and stay < 10 mg/dl bzw. 35 nmol/L (http://www.andrologyjournal.org/cgi/rapidpdf/jandrol.108.006296v1.pdf). How long do think would a heavily controlled athlete's cycle be? Long enough to completely shut down the hypogonadal axis? Never ever.

Also you seem to be implying that people don't use other drugs to keep test/epi test in check?

Exogen epiTest works only to some degree. Your endocrine values would definitely appear very, very strange (see LH/FSH above). Especially at doses that require PCT.

Running clomid was stupid due to it's long half life....

Correction: "Running clomid would have been stupid..."

...he should hace stuck to using HCG for PCT

HCG does not restart the endogen production of T. HCG pumps up your balls to normal size if you suffered from testicular atrophy (and may act as really bad Test enhancer as well...). HCG would have been detected pretty easy as well.

If Paulissen uses he uses transfusions, EPO, corticoids and T patches/gels like everyone else, maybe water based T suspension.

 

[pnwrider]

Agreed somewhat with the above posters. If you were taking enough T to need Clomid, you'd get popped for T.

I've heard of endurance athletes taking Clomid for the small boost in T, which for tested athletes, given the half life of the drug, is idiotic.

But yeah, it's safe to say this wasn't in his chicken.

 

[Morgazano]

No, that's Spain and Italy. Don't confuse those countries with Belgium.

Any professional Belgian cyclist that's still active you want to accuse of doping?

Are you serious? I'm not going to start accusing riders but it is well known that doping is still rampant in Belgium cycling. Not so much in mountain biking but in road racing it's terrible.