My top ten, on talent

[AmRacer]

Yeah but the riders there on talent are ones that had their careers taken from no fault of their own.
Pogi if he retires that’s on him, if there’s world war 3 I will re-assess the list.

Will you put Pogi the 🐐 further down?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

There is no way you can compare over generations. Everything is in reference to opposition at that time and you can't compare raw results/times due to different training methods and material. It's all gut feeling. There is no way of knowing whether Merckx would have dominated todays talents, or whether Jay Hindley would have won 5 Tours in the 50s.

100% this - and also parcours trends as well. Guys like Federico Bahamontés, Lucho Herrera, José Manuel Fuente and Lucien van Impe would be more likely to have won or podiumed a lot more GTs if they came around today; heavy reductions of TT mileage and increased number (and difficulty) of mountain stages, along with a much deeper, more professional péloton that could keep them protected much better in flat and rolling stages than back then, would have granted them far more opportunities. Simultaneously, guys who were heavily dependent on ITTs like Anquetil and Indurain may have still been champions, but likely not achieving the immortality that they did in their time on todays' parcours. Guys like Maertens and Rik van Looy operating with the kind of protection that modern sprint trains afford could have racked up insane numbers of wins, while had they come along in the 60s or 70s, guys like Robbie McEwen might have been more prized than guys like Cipollini or Cavendish owing to the lack of effective sprint trains and his knack for surfing the right wheels rather than being delivered by a structured team plan to the line is something they would have had to adapt.

 

[Charlyghoul]

Will you put Pogi the 🐐 further down?

He is likely to go up if ww3 starts this winter.
Don’t worry,I’ll make sure the list is adjusted as a priority.

 

[tobydawq]

I just think that’s where he is at the moment, he can overtake a lot of the rest if he keeps going

This makes no sense at all.

 

[tobydawq]

He is likely to go up if ww3 starts this winter.
Don’t worry,I’ll make sure the list is adjusted as a priority.

Where is Philippe Thys on your list?

 

[Hugh Januss]

He is likely to go up if ww3 starts this winter.
Don’t worry,I’ll make sure the list is adjusted as a priority.

If WW3 starts this winter in every likelihood there will be no list.

 

[Charlyghoul]

Where is Philippe Thys on your list?

Philippe has a case, a strong one, where would you put him?

 

[Oldman]

This makes no sense at all.

It is if you make your own rules and your own universe.

 

[pmcg76]

Here is my personal top ten of all time, it takes in to account results, but also riders who lost a lot of their career due to war, injuries and other things.

Merckx
Bartali
Coppi
Girardengo
Hinault
Anquetil
Binda
Pogacar
Lemond
Indurain

Of course there is an addendum in that Pogacar is only 26 and the only active rider on the list. Where do you think Pogacar will rank when he hangs up the wheels?

Before LeMond got shot, he had won 1 Tour, Worlds and a Dauphine at age 25. I like LeMond, but Pogacar was well ahead at the same age in terms of palmares. LeMond was competitive in one day races, but rarely won. Pogacar had 5 monuments by age 25.

 

[Charlyghoul]

Before LeMond got shot, he had won 1 Tour, Worlds and a Dauphine at age 25. I like LeMond, but Pogacar was well ahead at the same age in terms of palmares. LeMond was competitive in one day races, but rarely won. Pogacar had 5 monuments by age 25.

But that’s why Pog is above Greg ?

 

[pmcg76]

But that’s why Pog is above Greg ?

Yeah, but Pog should be well ahead of him, ahead of Hinault if we look at their careers at the same age.

 

[Charlyghoul]

Yeah, but Pog should be well ahead of him, ahead of Hinault if we look at their careers at the same age.

I know the list is not perfect, it’s just my own list. If Pog keeps winning of course he jumps ahead considerably.

 

[scribers]

If WW3 starts this winter in every likelihood there will be no list.

That's dark existential shtuff.

 

[Charlyghoul]

That's dark existential shtuff.

Don’t worry , I put Tadej as the goat before the first nukes are set off

 

[pmcg76]

Yeah but the riders there on talent are ones that had their careers taken from no fault of their own.
Pogi if he retires that’s on him, if there’s world war 3 I will re-assess the list.

So why bother putting a list then if you don't want discussion. If you compare Pogacar to those other riders at the same age, he should be in the Top 3, that is if it is based on talent like you say.

 

[Charlyghoul]

So why bother putting a list then if you don't want discussion. If you compare Pogacar to those other riders at the same age, he should be in the Top 3, that is if it is based on talent like you say.

Well as I put initially , it’s based on talent mostly but also somewhat on results.
Otherwise you or I can be the goat.
I do think that this era is quite weak and that helps Tadej, he has essentially one rival in the classics and one in the tour, that hasn’t been the case for most of the greats.

 

[Charlyghoul]

So why bother putting a list then if you don't want discussion. If you compare Pogacar to those other riders at the same age, he should be in the Top 3, that is if it is based on talent like you say.

What would your top ten look like?

 

[Tonton]

For me, "talent" is used when a rider shows a complete mastery of the fundamentals, the term is often associated with young riders showing promise. Sometimes riders who compete against stronger riders demonstrate insane biking, IQ skills, often they will be over achievers. If that is the definition, the one that I grew up with is...

In chronological order, based on my eyes, not stats nor articles:

Merckx: not on my list, I watched the final stage in '75, nothing before that.
Hinault: '77 CdD built the hype, cycling was his destiny.
Van Impe was a natural.
Fons DeWolf: "la classe a l'etat pur", as 'Equipe. put it. .
Greg LeMond.
Charly Mottet:,what if...
...blur...
Contador...
Valverde*, I can't.
Cance, Boonen, Gilbert, and Sagan. Mathieu and Wout are there too.
Nibali, so smart that he could outsmart himself.
Tadej of course.
Remco...but to win Le Tour he will need to lose 4 kg. No one will complain...

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

He is likely to go up if ww3 starts this winter.

Ah, fingers crossed then.

 

[Oldman]

Before LeMond got shot, he had won 1 Tour, Worlds and a Dauphine at age 25. I like LeMond, but Pogacar was well ahead at the same age in terms of palmares. LeMond was competitive in one day races, but rarely won. Pogacar had 5 monuments by age 25.

Greg Lemond was an outlier from the US. He had to do most everything for himself on this continent because no American had. When he went to Europe he was not embraced like a Remco or Tadej by any specific team. His language barrier and Euro chavinism added to the difficulty along with having almost no American support on any team.
The fact that he submitted to La Vie Clare's machinations to give Hinault his last Tour win says it all. Then he had to hammer Bernard when he tried it again while being diplomatic to his team and sponsors. Your comparison isn't even relevant to the two; both great riders and racers. Both have been innovators but when you look at Lemond's wins; he brought a quantum leap in attention to aerodynamics and training to Europe, too.
That, and he started in a different era and would likely have 4 Tours had he not been injured.

 

[Oldman]

So why bother putting a list then if you don't want discussion. If you compare Pogacar to those other riders at the same age, he should be in the Top 3, that is if it is based on talent like you say.

He wants thread count. We're helping.

 

[kamaveli]

Ullrich is usually mentioned in this context. If things had gone differently, he could have won the Tour de France ten times. Of course, he competed in an era when it was difficult to separate talent from suitability.

Roglic also needs to be mentioned. It takes a lot of talent to be so successful when you started the sport so late and crashes and bad luck have often prevented true peak form.

 

[Wyndbrook]

If talent is being considered then Jean - Pierre Monsere should be on the list, winning the world championships and a monument and being killed aged twenty two.

 

[AlfaLum]

Any list that does not have Pogacar sitting on either one or two right now doesnt make any sense at all.

 

[Berniece]

Any list that does not have Pogacar sitting on either one or two right now doesnt make any sense at all.

He doesn't even have the palmares for those positions... If he crashes tomorrow and can't ride a bike anymore. Would you still have him on 1 or 2 in 20 years? No. So unless he gets the palmares to match the position, there's no reason to put him that high.