Teams & Riders Nairo Quintana discussion thread

[Miburo]

He already made many mistakes. Letting froome go on the peyresourde is a blunder. Then the next day, not even attempting one attack.

He's gonna lose at least 1 minute to froome in the ITT, personally i think it'll be even more. GL getting it back

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

But what exactly could Quintana have done to prevent Froome gaining time today or in Luchon?

Nothing. But we are now past the Pyrenees, more than halfway through the Tour, and he is the only rider in the top 10 other than TJ Van Gaarderen not to have attempted even the smallest attack or even to have deliberately put his nose into the wind. He is not just riding more conservatively than Froome is or than usually attacking riders like Martin he is riding more conservatively than absolutely everybody.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re:

He already made many mistakes. Letting froome go on the peyresourde is a blunder. Then the next day, not even attempting one attack.

He's gonna lose at least 1 minute to froome in the ITT, personally i think it'll be even more. GL getting it back

As in he made mistakes in the crosswinds last year, whereas he hasn't made a single mistake on the flat this year. Not 'he's made no mistakes in the entire tour'

 

[Miburo]

Tell me, which GC contender made a serious mistake on the flat this year?

Contador crash? Porte flat? Not really a mistake.

Quintana was never forced in a bad spot, nothing happened and then now...

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re:

Tell me, which GC contender made a serious mistake on the flat this year?

Contador crash? Porte flat? Not really a mistake.

Quintana was never forced in a bad spot, nothing happened and then now...

Considering that the peloton was down to 60 riders at times, making a mistake was definitely possible. Quintana was near the front at almost all points. When Froome went, he was a bit too far back, but even if he had been at the front, there's no way he would have had the power to bridge to Froome if Kristoff didn't.

 

[saganftw]

Re: Re:

But what exactly could Quintana have done to prevent Froome gaining time today or in Luchon?

Nothing. But we are now past the Pyrenees, more than halfway through the Tour, and he is the only rider in the top 10 other than TJ Van Gaarderen not to have attempted even the smallest attack or even to have deliberately put his nose into the wind. He is not just riding more conservatively than Froome is or than usually attacking riders like Martin he is riding more conservatively than absolutely everybody.

thats how portugal won the euros...nairo just needs to find i bit of Eder in him

 

[SergeDeM]

I don't see what all the fuss is about. He has less time to make up and more mountains to do so than last year. Kudos to Froome for the way he's riding, but all that effort for a combined total of 35 seconds can still come back to haunt him.

 

[Mr.White]

Re: Re:

The thing is, racing conservatively might be his only path to victory against Froome and a super strong Sky. Obviously, he might still lose, but probably would lose by a larger margin, and without an option to win, if he did what so many fans are asking him to do.

Agreed. Unless Froome can maintain this ridiculous form for three weeks, which is pretty questionable, I think this is still Quintana's race to lose. He knows that he has the ability to put time on Froome in the third week, and is even stronger this year than previous editions. If Froome does maintain this form, it's irrelevant. Quintana couldn't win whatever he tried.

It is not as binary a choice as that. 35 seconds of accumulated small losses to Froome's non-traditional attacks introduce a sort of ambiguity, as does the loss of a major MTF. Quintana could be the strongest in the mountains and still lose. He could drop Froome cleanly and only gain 30 seconds. And that's without taking into account possible TT losses which he would also have to make up. He could drop Froome cleanly in two stages, ride away from him twice and still end up behind. That wouldn't be inevitable, it would be a loss that his conservatism contributed to.

But what exactly could Quintana have done to prevent Froome gaining time today or in Luchon? I don't really see how he could prevent that. Look at Froome's form at the moment - the power he has available. Do you think Quintana had any realistic chance of dropping him on a climb as gentle as Arcalis, or attacking a big group on the Peyresourde and staying away on the descent?

He could jump on Froome's wheel on Peyresourde, he could at least tried to chase immediately and not waiting 10 seconds for Valverde to come. He himself said he made a mistake there

 

[LeSensei]

Re:

He already made many mistakes. Letting froome go on the peyresourde is a blunder. Then the next day, not even attempting one attack.

He's gonna lose at least 1 minute to froome in the ITT, personally i think it'll be even more. GL getting it back

1 minute is being really like really optimistic.

Froome's dominance today was no coincidence - he singlehandedly catched Sagan with the wind on his face. Fabian tried to close the gap himself and had to give up. Froome is in monster form, and I think this year they might hit that 3rd week sweetspot. Movistar have been fooled, they thought this would be all over the same again as in 2015 and 2013; what they haven't realised is that moment came in Pyrenees with Froome still short of form. Now the chance is gone.

Besides Froome today reached the finish line almost euphorically sprinting against Sagan. Quintana on the other hand, back of the group and complaining later on about the stage, allegedly very tired.

 

[SergeDeM]

Re: Re:

He already made many mistakes. Letting froome go on the peyresourde is a blunder. Then the next day, not even attempting one attack.

He's gonna lose at least 1 minute to froome in the ITT, personally i think it'll be even more. GL getting it back

1 minute is being really like really optimistic.

Froome's dominance today was no coincidence - he singlehandedly catched Sagan with the wind on his face. Fabian tried to close the gap himself and had to give up. Froome is in monster form, and I think this year they might hit that 3rd week sweetspot. Movistar have been fooled, they thought this would be all over the same again as in 2015 and 2013; what they haven't realised is that moment came in Pyrenees with Froome still short of form. Now the chance is gone.

Besides Froome today reached the finish line almost euphorically sprinting against Sagan. Quintana on the other hand, back of the group and complaining later on about the stage, allegedly very tired.

And if that's the case, then there's also no point in critizising Quintana since Froome is currently unbeatable. Nairo will give it his best where he's expected to, in the mountains in the third week. He honestly can't beat Froome any other way so why bother?

 

[carton]

Re: Re:

[
And if that's the case, then there's also no point in critizising Quintana since Froome is currently unbeatable. Nairo will give it his best where he's expected to, in the mountains in the third week. He honestly can't beat Froome any other way so why bother?

+1. If Froome has really timed his peak for the third week, and he's been this strong while undercooked, then chapeau.

 

[portugal11]

Well... merckx is right, this guy only knows how to climb. He isn't a good time trialist, he loose time in wind stages. He loose time in muritos. He barely attack when he is a couple of seconds behind the leader. He doesn't have charisma, panache. Will he ever win a tour?

 

[portugal11]

Re: Re:

But what exactly could Quintana have done to prevent Froome gaining time today or in Luchon?

Nothing. But we are now past the Pyrenees, more than halfway through the Tour, and he is the only rider in the top 10 other than TJ Van Gaarderen not to have attempted even the smallest attack or even to have deliberately put his nose into the wind. He is not just riding more conservatively than Froome is or than usually attacking riders like Martin he is riding more conservatively than absolutely everybody.

thats how portugal won the euros...nairo just needs to find i bit of Eder in him

Only croatia was better than portugal.

 

[Arnout]

Re: Re:

He already made many mistakes. Letting froome go on the peyresourde is a blunder. Then the next day, not even attempting one attack.

He's gonna lose at least 1 minute to froome in the ITT, personally i think it'll be even more. GL getting it back

1 minute is being really like really optimistic.

Froome's dominance today was no coincidence - he singlehandedly catched Sagan with the wind on his face. Fabian tried to close the gap himself and had to give up. Froome is in monster form, and I think this year they might hit that 3rd week sweetspot. Movistar have been fooled, they thought this would be all over the same again as in 2015 and 2013; what they haven't realised is that moment came in Pyrenees with Froome still short of form. Now the chance is gone.

Besides Froome today reached the finish line almost euphorically sprinting against Sagan. Quintana on the other hand, back of the group and complaining later on about the stage, allegedly very tired.

Like Armstrong looked the strongest in the echelon stage in the Tour of 2009. These kind of stages aren't comparable with mountain stages.

Though I do agree Quintana should learn that taking initiative means he can plan his own energy consumption - this is harder when one has to react. This holds for the mountain stages, not for stages like today.

 

[SergeDeM]

Re:

Well... merckx is right, this guy only knows how to climb. He isn't a good time trialist, he loose time in wind stages. He loose time in muritos. He barely attack when he is a couple of seconds behind the leader. He doesn't have charisma, panache. Will he ever win a tour?

This looks like trolling but...

Not so fast. He IS a good time trialist. He's getting better all the time and he won't lose minutes. He's just proved that even without teammates he can still be at the front on a windy stage, so another false statement right there. He will attack just like he has before, but aimlessly attacking ahead of time is foolish. Charisma, panache? Those are just words for saying you subjectively like a rider or not.

 

[Cookster15]

Re: Re:

Well... merckx is right, this guy only knows how to climb. He isn't a good time trialist, he loose time in wind stages. He loose time in muritos. He barely attack when he is a couple of seconds behind the leader. He doesn't have charisma, panache. Will he ever win a tour?

This looks like trolling but...

Not so fast. He IS a good time trialist. He's getting better all the time and he won't lose minutes. He's just proved that even without teammates he can still be at the front on a windy stage, so another false statement right there. He will attack just like he has before, but aimlessly attacking ahead of time is foolish. Charisma, panache? Those are just words for saying you subjectively like a rider or not.

+1. Charisma, panache? Overrated and highly subjective attributes.

 

[simulcop]

Re:

......., panache. Will he ever win a tour?

Time will tell.

 

[gospina]

Re:

Well... merckx is right, this guy only knows how to climb. He isn't a good time trialist, he loose time in wind stages. He loose time in muritos. He barely attack when he is a couple of seconds behind the leader. He doesn't have charisma, panache. Will he ever win a tour?

Agree this is a trolling post. No need to get your panties in a bunch. Here is the reality. We are 11 stages in.
Adam Yates is 7" ahead and Daniel Martin is 4" ahead of Nairo. They won't be around in the 3rd week and if they are, they won't be better than Nairo. Froome has been phenomenal but in all, he only has taken 19" (13" and 6") on Nairo due to his better strategies realtime with the rest coming from bonus seconds 16" (10" and 6").
Now, Froome had to be MAXED OUT for those two efforts. Quintana probably thought he was going to make it up tomorrow and that is real issue for him, the time he could have gotten is gone due to weather changes.
He will lose more time on Froome on the TT, maybe 50"-1'10". I will say Nairo will WIN the 2nd TT. Uphill TT is actually Nairo's best event. He has won enough of these, including the Giro uphill TT to be the man to beat, not Froome. He may gain about 20" to 30" on Froome there, enough to cancel out the current deficit. So, it means that Nairo has to make up about 1'10" in the rest of the mountain stages. If you said in day one that he will be this close to Froome at this point, Movistar would have jumped on that deal.

What I find encouraging about all these posts is that it is now taken for granted that it is up to Nairo and NO ONE ELSE to attack Froome. Everyone else is 2nd fiddle. It's Froome vs Nairo only.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Why do people assume that Quintana didn't leave a lot of energy on the roads today?

He knew he had to be at the front, and towards the end, he wasn't. Why? Could be down to inability to fight for position within the peloton with his physique. But much more likely that he was tired, needed a breather, and drifted further back.

Froome might have used a lot of energy with his attack, but so did Quintana most likely

 

[SeriousSam]

Re: Re:

Everyone else is 2nd fiddle. It's Froome vs Nairo only.

And it would be thus even if there had been no crashes

 

[simulcop]

Re:

Why do people assume that Quintana didn't leave a lot of energy on the roads today?

He knew he had to be at the front, and towards the end, he wasn't. Why? Could be down to inability to fight for position within the peloton with his physique. But much more likely that he was tired, needed a breather, and drifted further back.

Froome might have used a lot of energy with his attack, but so did Quintana most likely

Not even close.

 

[hrotha]

Charisma and panache are important in a sponsor-driven sport.

 

[sir fly]

I'll look at the positive, which is that we didn’t have any crashes, because really the organisation doesn't often think about the athlete, the cyclist. They look for a certain type of spectacle but without realising the type of dangers they send us into. We're all risking our lives every day and they need to think more about stages like this.

Don't go there, Nairo.

 

[Red Rick]

Meh. I think that if Quintna drops Froome once uphill and finally feels he's stronger, he'll finally come out and start being really agressive. Or if he wins the MTT. Parcours changes make it all the harder for him.

 

[Angliru]

Re:

Well... merckx is right, this guy only knows how to climb. He isn't a good time trialist, he loose time in wind stages. He loose time in muritos. He barely attack when he is a couple of seconds behind the leader. He doesn't have charisma, panache. Will he ever win a tour?

Well he's been beating everyone but Froome in the Tour so he really isn't a slouch for that is he? He and his team is simply overmatched.