National Football League

[leftover pie]

So, CB Brandon Flowers released by Chiefs and picked up by Chargers. Good analysis here of why the Chiefs let him go and whether he is a good fit for the Chargers. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2105351-what-brandon-flowers-can-bring-to-san-diego-chargers

I've never seen anything so in depth on bleacher report, good find.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

No kidding. That's even more detailed than some of the things on the NFL network about X's and O's. You have to be seriously dedicated (or a former player, coach or scout) to go into that much depth.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Found out there are some Norwegian Seahawk fans, who I told I'd post this. And anyway, I know we have some other CN forumites like oldman who might be interested in this... "Rain City Redemption" series. My favorite snips are in episode 3, part 1 at 7:30, then again from 8:30 to 9:22 with Gruden telling Kiper "You're starting to aggravate me"! I guess Mel gets to listen to Jon for the next 10 years about QB's under 6 feet tall who have the IT factor.

EPISODE 1
EPISODE 2
EPISODE 3, PART 1
EPISODE 3, PART 2

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

The NFL season is just around the corner. Yeup. Preseason begins August 3 (NYG vs. But @ Canton). The following week there are games on Thursday, Friday, and Saturday; and the week after that there are games on Th-F-Sat-Sun and Monday; not that Mark Cuban should care as the NBA will not be underway yet.

Some NFL records could/should fall this season, and maybe next season if the elder Manning sticks it out that long. PM just needs 18 TDs to eclipse the record for career TD passes of 508 set by Brett Favre. That should fall if PM stays healthy. PM still needs nearly 7000 yards to break Favre's career passing yards record, so that mark is likely safe for one more year. No active player is close enough to break any of the records currently held by Jerry Rice.

Trivia question: who was quoted saying (exactly), "Offense sells tickets. Kicking wins games. Defense wins championships."

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

One slightly interesting rule change, for 1st 2 weeks of preseason only, is to move the extra point kick from the 2-yard line to the 15-yard line.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Meh. I still think field goals is a bigger problem, as I've said many times before.

Meanwhile, Nate Davis of USA Today has his up and down ratings for NFL teams off season moves. Here they are.

I agree on Baltimore, Jacksonville (though they still have another 1-2 years I think to really get good), and maybe Cleveland, though I still question how good Manzeil will be, and if the owner and management can screw it all up.

I am still really iffy on Denver being that much better. I also think Nate saying the Raiders signed a bunch of AARP guys is an opinion he didn't apply to Denver, though I agree that Reggie McKenzie has to be on the hot seat if the Raiders stink. Nate had similar predictions a couple weeks ago, that Denver would finish 12-4, and KC would drop to 4-12.

Talk in the NY area has started that since the Giants were 7-3 their last ten games last season, if Eli can get back to where he was(!), the Giants have a chance. They seem to forget that the Giants missed the playoffs 4 of the last 5 years, and that other season won the SB from the WC, playing the team they were geared to play (NE). They also seem to forget that last year Eli threw 27 interceptions (worst in NFL), had a QB rating of 69.3 (only Pryor was worse), his completion % was 57% (only Pryor and Freeman were worse), and a total QBR rating of 37, with only Geno Smith lower.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

if Eli can get back to where he was

OFC he can; as active all time Int leader and as single season Int leader.

 

[leftover pie]

The excitement for the forthcoming season is slowly building in the leftover pie household.

There was terrible news earlier in the year when our free-to-air NFL broadcaster announced it wouldn't be renewing its contract for this season.

There was shock, , anger , even disbelief expressed by me.

But thankfully another station has stepped in so normal services should resume plus I understand we'll be getting some highlight/behind the scenes type shows as well.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

no takers on the trivia question, or no interest? Oh well, Marv Levy is the answer.

I agree on Cleveland who at this time last year I thought was close to break through until things imploded by December. I think Denver will be better where offensive weapons is not really much of a concern, and defense was where they needed to up the ante, and they did that. I initially felt the Raiders made poor offensive line choices, but they need some veteran leadership to change the culture and attitude there. if that is what the general manager is thinking I can't argue with that. Those AARP guys could be just what they need.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I loved Marv Levy. Ol' man Wilson got rid of him too soon I think. Marv was old in age, but still had a lot of youthful energy left. Plus, soon after Marv left, Wade Wilson and Gregg Williams tanked the team.

I would have never guessed Marv to say that quote though, as his Jim Kelly teams were such high-powered offenses. They used the hurry up offense long before Chip Kelly came along. One thing I recall about the 1994 Superbowl (last one they lost to the Cowboys) the Bills weren't running the hurry-up anymore. They did go some no huddle, but the fast paced, break-neck speed like they got started with when Marv and Kelly arrived (like Oregon often uses today) they abandoned for some reason. I guess it was Dallas defense?

Another old coach that was pushed away too soon from the sport was Chuck Knox. Did you know that he's so philanthropic he's given nearly all his money away to education, and apparently lives very modestly? Pretty cool.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I've always had great respect for Tony Dungee as a sage coach, but here's one day where he should have kept his mouth shut. Yesterday he told the Tampa Bay Tribune he stated he wouldn't have taken Michael Sam in the draft because of the distraction.

After all we've been through, after the concerns had just about run their course, and Sam's Ram's jersey has now soared in popularity, (he hasn't even made the team yet!) why in the world would anyone want to take us back?

I'm reminded of Rush Limbaugh's comment about McNabb only playing because the NFL wanted a black QB to succeed. It's almost that bad.

I realize Dungee is a Christian, and that's fine. But what happened to the adage about being Christ-like, not just a Christian?

Even on a logical issue it makes no sense. A distraction? How about Ray Rice hitting his girlfriend and dragging her around and barely avoiding jail time? What about Aldon Smith saying bomb in an airport? What about the entire Ritchie Cognito Jonathan Martin mess. He's okay with those kind of distractions, but not Sam? Hell, I'd even say Johnny Manziel is more of a distraction right now than Sam.

 

[ToreBear]

One slightly interesting rule change, for 1st 2 weeks of preseason only, is to move the extra point kick from the 2-yard line to the 15-yard line.

What happens to the 2 point conversion? Won't it become more difficult?

I've always had great respect for Tony Dungee as a sage coach, but here's one day where he should have kept his mouth shut. Yesterday he told the Tampa Bay Tribune he stated he wouldn't have taken Michael Sam in the draft because of the distraction.

After all we've been through, after the concerns had just about run their course, and Sam's Ram's jersey has now soared in popularity, (he hasn't even made the team yet!) why in the world would anyone want to take us back?

I'm reminded of Rush Limbaugh's comment about McNabb only playing because the NFL wanted a black QB to succeed. It's almost that bad.

I realize Dungee is a Christian, and that's fine. But what happened to the adage about being Christ-like, not just a Christian?

Even on a logical issue it makes no sense. A distraction? How about Ray Rice hitting his girlfriend and dragging her around and barely avoiding jail time? What about Aldon Smith saying bomb in an airport? What about the entire Ritchie Cognito Jonathan Martin mess. He's okay with those kind of distractions, but not Sam? Hell, I'd even say Johnny Manziel is more of a distraction right now than Sam.

Don't you think you are reading a little too much into his comments? I read it as he wouldn't want the media distraction.

I would think the same holds true for all of your above examples as well. Also Sam is a 7th rounder.

 

[Oldman]

I've always had great respect for Tony Dungee as a sage coach, but here's one day where he should have kept his mouth shut. Yesterday he told the Tampa Bay Tribune he stated he wouldn't have taken Michael Sam in the draft because of the distraction.

After all we've been through, after the concerns had just about run their course, and Sam's Ram's jersey has now soared in popularity, (he hasn't even made the team yet!) why in the world would anyone want to take us back?

I'm reminded of Rush Limbaugh's comment about McNabb only playing because the NFL wanted a black QB to succeed. It's almost that bad.

I realize Dungee is a Christian, and that's fine. But what happened to the adage about being Christ-like, not just a Christian?

Even on a logical issue it makes no sense. A distraction? How about Ray Rice hitting his girlfriend and dragging her around and barely avoiding jail time? What about Aldon Smith saying bomb in an airport? What about the entire Ritchie Cognito Jonathan Martin mess. He's okay with those kind of distractions, but not Sam? Hell, I'd even say Johnny Manziel is more of a distraction right now than Sam.

Tony is smart but does seem to fall prey to his version of a moral code. He embraced Michael Vick...

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

No, I actually don't think I'm reading too much into what he said. Though I will give him a chance to clarify (he hasn't said anything since the article, even though he's fairly active on Twitter). Here's an article supporting my stance, by Will Brinson on CBS Sports, who puts it more aptly and in better words than I can. You'll find several more online with a look.

"...This is a disappointing stance from the first African-American coach to win a Super Bowl who dealt with racially-based backlash for he and his family at times. Dungy literally wrote (the foreward of) the book pushing for 'Equal Coaching Opportunity in the NFL.'

He was one of Michael Vick's biggest supporters when the former Falcons quarterback returned to the NFL from a stint in prison following his arrest for dogfighting. Vick commands headlines now; in 2009 he wasn't a distraction so much as fireworks coated in plutonium.

Dungy posted a video on his site 'All-Pro Dad' encouraging Tim Tebow to be "patient" because the right situation would find him. Tim Tebow is a very nice and well-meaning person, but he is a walking, professional distraction.

There are many reasons for not drafting a player. But hearing 'things will happen' from a pioneer of the NFL is a shame, regardless of where you stand on Michael Sam."

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

It does seem kind of ironic Levy said that.

You are right about Knox being forced out. Early. And it was by Ken Behring, who I believe asked GM Mike McCormick to do the dirty work. I also believe McCormick refused, which is what I believe led to Mike's firing. After that, the handwriting was on the wall, not because of Knox's record but because of a difference of opinion about styles of play. Behring wanted to bring in the style used in Oakland, the "Silver Stretch" offense, and his man to do it, Tom Flores. But Knox was called "Ground Chuck" for good reason, and not just because his first name was Chuck. A punishing ground game was his style, which he did with good success.

Another saying I like is a Chuck Knox saying: "What you do speaks so loudly I don't need to hear what you say". He's a good man who I think still lives in the Seattle area. Not surprising to hear he's so generous. It fits his character. OFC he grew up at a time when money was not a big reason to play or be involved in the game. Anyway, he's one of my all time favorite coaches who was a great teacher of the game who would also explain why everything should be done the way he wanted.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Now we are getting some traction. On Dungy I have great respect, but on this Sam comment he was speaking honestly. HOWEVER, regardless of his opinion about drafting the player or whether it ends up being a distraction, that is one thing he just should have not said. Some things are best kept to self. But I'm sure Sam is strong enough to handle the comment. He!!, he will prolly use it to stoke the competitive fires within him.

 

[ToreBear]

All good points. One thing. What will happen if/when sam doesn't make the final roster? Was he released because he was gay or because he wasn't good enough? I can see the future headlines.

Personally I would rather deal with Sam related stories than Manziel related stories.

But perhaps Dungy should clarify what he meant.


@on3m@n@rmy
What happens in regards to the 2 point conversion with this new place kick spot?

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

What happens in regards to the 2 point conversion with this new place kick spot?

Pats HC Billichick made the original proposal to the rules committee, but his proposal had the ball spotted on the 25-yard line for point-after touchdown attempts. The rules committee tabled the proposal, but did not reject it. Instead, they settled on spotting the ball on the 15-yard line partly, I believe, because they still wanted the 2-point try to be a realistic game-time option. Part of their decision was to also impose this as a temporary rule change, to only be used during the first 2 preseason games... just to see whether its a good idea or not. They will reevaluate later. So yes, there will still be a 2 point option. IMO, the rule change will add pressure to rookie kickers trying to earn a roster spot.

 

[ToreBear]

Pats HC Billichick made the original proposal to the rules committee, but his proposal had the ball spotted on the 25-yard line for point-after touchdown attempts. The rules committee tabled the proposal, but did not reject it. Instead, they settled on spotting the ball on the 15-yard line partly, I believe, because they still wanted the 2-point try to be a realistic game-time option. Part of their decision was to also impose this as a temporary rule change, to only be used during the first 2 preseason games... just to see whether its a good idea or not. They will reevaluate later. So yes, there will still be a 2 point option. IMO, the rule change will add pressure to rookie kickers trying to earn a roster spot.

Ok, I guess we will see how it goes.

 

[Oldman]

It does seem kind of ironic Levy said that.

You are right about Knox being forced out. Early. And it was by Ken Behring, who I believe asked GM Mike McCormick to do the dirty work. I also believe McCormick refused, which is what I believe led to Mike's firing. After that, the handwriting was on the wall, not because of Knox's record but because of a difference of opinion about styles of play. Behring wanted to bring in the style used in Oakland, the "Silver Stretch" offense, and his man to do it, Tom Flores. But Knox was called "Ground Chuck" for good reason, and not just because his first name was Chuck. A punishing ground game was his style, which he did with good success.

Another saying I like is a Chuck Knox saying: "What you do speaks so loudly I don't need to hear what you say". He's a good man who I think still lives in the Seattle area. Not surprising to hear he's so generous. It fits his character. OFC he grew up at a time when money was not a big reason to play or be involved in the game. Anyway, he's one of my all time favorite coaches who was a great teacher of the game who would also explain why everything should be done the way he wanted.

There were other undercurrents affecting Ken Behring's judgement; greed for one. He had planned to show local development companies how the Big Boys from California staged housing developments.
The locals handed him his head and he was very unhappy that his stewardship of the Hawks went unappreciated. His next plan was to move the franchise to the Bay area and many thought he sought to devalue the local appeal to accomplish that. Fortunately the locals stepped up and sent him on his way.
Chuck Knox deserved much better than that and he's very welcome here.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Knox was actually very open to the passing game when Kreig and Largent were playing lights out. He even went from being Ground Chuck to Air Knox at one point!

Dungee has clarified what wasn't said, and I'm okay with it. Classy answer.

"I was asked whether I would have drafted Michael Sam and I answered that I would not have drafted him. I gave my honest answer, which is that I felt drafting him would bring much distraction to the team. At the time of my interview, the Oprah Winfrey reality show that was going to chronicle Michael's first season had been announced.

"I was not asked whether or not Michael Sam deserves an opportunity to play in the NFL. He absolutely does. I was not asked whether his sexual orientation should play a part in the evaluation process. It should not. I was not asked whether I would have a problem having Michael Sam on my team. I would not.

"I have been asked all of those questions several times in the last three months and have always answered them the same way -- by saying that playing in the NFL is, and should be, about merit."

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Correct u r about Air Knox. Came about by Knox retooling the offense after star RB Curt Warner (the 1st Warner) went down with injury, and who was an elite RB and one of the best in the league. So Air Knox came by necessity, not preference, which is another testament to the greatness of Knox. Here is the link:
http://www.seahawks.com/news/articles/article-1/1984-From-Ground-Chuck-to-Air-Knox/507345db-2a00-4ae2-8f79-65a7f2015eee

@ oldman: have u seen the rain city redemption episodes that I posted 2pages back?

 

[Oldman]

Correct u r about Air Knox. Came about by Knox retooling the offense after star RB Curt Warner (the 1st Warner) went down with injury, and who was an elite RB and one of the best in the league. So Air Knox came by necessity, not preference, which is another testament to the greatness of Knox. Here is the link:
http://www.seahawks.com/news/articles/article-1/1984-From-Ground-Chuck-to-Air-Knox/507345db-2a00-4ae2-8f79-65a7f2015eee

@ oldman: have u seen the rain city redemption episodes that I posted 2pages back?

Thanks for the reminder but have had little time. Except just watched ESPN's 30 for 30 episode of Slaying the Badger. Pretty intense view of La Vie Clare. Any fan should watch it with a non-fan. I will get back to checking those out.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Keith Olberman weighs in on the whole Dungee thing. (FWIW, Olberman can be a real tool, IMO).

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

It is one thing to say Tony shouldn't have said he would not have drafted the dude due to the distraction it would have caused for the team. It is another thing to say Tony's comment was hypocritical AND that Tony should be advocating social change. I disagree completely with that. Olberman has stepped out of bounds himself and is making this a bigger deal than it needs to be. Then for Olberman to go on and say Tony's comment is an admission that he would not be skilled enough to coach a player like Sam is an attempt to hurt Tony. Bad form by Olberman. Sounds like Olberman has some kind of bias and was hurt by Tony's comment. Give us unbiased reporting Olberman, not some trashy spin.