National Football League

Page 202 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Jun 15, 2009
8,529
1
0
I think that I meant that K. Moore is the best QB on that roster, and understands offense better than anyone in that organization.

EDIT: QBs are interchangable, just ask Denver!
You think you meant, or you meant? ;)
All I know about KMoore is him having a butter arm (52 mph at the combine, one of the worst in 2012), understanding the offense or not... Orlovsky, Moore, Stanton, whoever... indeed interchangeable QB meat.
Stafford otoh is ofc your deserving starting QB. There is no tiny doubt about it.

:D :D
 
Yes, I get the joke now. Moore ran a pro set in college and showed leadership and accuracy in a heavy pass-first offense. But I never thought of him as being an NFL quarterback either. Similar to Case Keenam, or Colt Brennan perhaps. In addition to not having much of an arm, Moore is also maybe the smallest QB in the league. He's smaller than Wilson, Brees, Manziel or McCoy I think. Though he has played well in pre-season, and exceeded expectations when he has played in regular games. So what do I know?

I liken Stafford to Romo. He can make some great plays and big throws. But he's also prone to mistakes.
 
Moore for Lions fans is a kind of cult figure. I think when Moore signed with the Lions a lot of his college fans became Lions fans. And a lot of them are sure that Moore is the better option and want Stafford replaced by their hero. So it's a kind of humerus discussion, with a few pro Moore hardliners. It's a running gag for Lions fans. All in good fun.

Now as for Moore himself.
@on3m@n@rmy He can run?! :eek: Yep mobility is not him. But from my little understanding of evaluating QBs in the preseason he has good pocket awareness.

Moore is kind of the perfect QB except for as Foxy said, a noodle arm(though I think he has gotten stronger over the last few years), being short(he is listed at 6 feet, so I think bigger than Wilson) and no wheels.

In short, he is the perfect QB in the wrong body. Now this year the Lions are going to have a genuine QB competition. And the winner will be able to hold the clipboard on the sideline. :D Last year the question was more about if the Lions were going to keep a third QB(Moore) on the 53 since Caldwell brought in a guy he could trust to be backup in Orlovsky. This year with a year of improvement from Moore, and probably having earned more trust from his coaches, it will be a genuine competition for the #2 QB job. Additionally Moore received a 2 year contract with more guaranteed money than Orlovsky who got a 1 year deal. So things are indicating that Moore has a good chance of becoming the number 2 either this year or the next.

I would assume the Lions keep all 3 qbs no matter who wins the #2 job, but if Moore is the #2 there is a microscopic IMHO chance that the lions will keep only 2.

As for Stafford, he is still just 27, and QBs don't seem to hit their prime until their thirties. So there is plenty of time for development.

For some perspective on QBs and age, Stafford was 26 last season, and these are some of the numbers other QBs had at that age(not compiled by me):

Rodgers @26 8501 yards 59 TD 21 INT 47 games (0 Playoff wins)

Brees @26 13,190 yards 84 TD 38 INT 74 games (0 Playoff wins)

Favre @26 14,825 yards 108TD 66 INT 77 games ( 2-2 in post season) *

Peyton @26 20,618 yards 138 TD 100 INT 80 games (0 Playoff wins)

Stafford @26 21,714 yards 131 TD 85 INT 77 games (0 Playoff wins)**

*NFL's All Time career leading Passer

**NFL's All time leading Passer after 77 games played

ps. Moore has never been on the game day roster for a competitive game IIRC.
 
ToreBear said:
Now as for Moore himself.
@on3m@n@rmy He can run?! :eek: Yep mobility is not him. But from my little understanding of evaluating QBs in the preseason he has good pocket awareness.
LOL. But yes, pretty good pocket awareness. Crap, he'd have to have that quality as sloooow as he is. But that's not all bad. Look at Brady... good pocket awareness, quick enough to be evasive, but as slow as molasses in January (in the northern hemisphere). Brady's OLinemen can easily outrun him and make Brady's neck snap as they pass him by (that actually happened in a game 2 years ago I think it was. Brady tossed a rare INT and as they gave chase, the OLineman zipped by him. Brady just stopped, head down in disgrace. It was Sick.). But nobody's gonna diss him for that.
 
p.s. Anyone interested in seeing how the Browns pan out this season? Due largely to injury, they lost their last 5 games last season to finish 7-9. Before that losing streak they were 7-4 and had some come from behind wins vs PIT and NO. If rookie DT Danny Shelton can help them get some QB hurries and plug up the middle they might be in a better position to win a few more games, especially since they lost a number of games by less than a TD. I'm interested, but it has nothing to do with Manziel either, who IMO needs more time.
 
Re:

on3m@n@rmy said:
p.s. Anyone interested in seeing how the Browns pan out this season? Due largely to injury, they lost their last 5 games last season to finish 7-9. Before that losing streak they were 7-4 and had some come from behind wins vs PIT and NO. If rookie DT Danny Shelton can help them get some QB hurries and plug up the middle they might be in a better position to win a few more games, especially since they lost a number of games by less than a TD. I'm interested, but it has nothing to do with Manziel either, who IMO needs more time.
Several teams could count a few more wins "if", but the Brown could have been a 10 win team. I hope that J. Manz has his stuff together, but I'm not sure that he can be the difference maker that they need. They could win 10 this season

How about RGIII? Can he finally lead DC? Can they win 10 if he plays solid?
 
Jun 15, 2009
8,529
1
0
Every single team could win 10 games the coming season.* The talent level is so tight up there between the best of the best of the best football players, that Alpe soon will quote... ;) :)

* Only one team can´t win at least 10 games, coz their coach decided to exchange better players with worse ones, and loading up certain positions, while forgetting about other ones
 
That's funny! But it is true. And not just by obvious math. I'd say any team in the NFL, even Tampa, Jacksonville, Tennessee or Oakland could do it. It's not likely, but the talent level is indeed very fine in the NFL, and we have seen this exact thing happen in the past. Remember, we're talking 10 wins here. Not a 15-1 team that goes to the Superbowl. And yes, I actually think Philly could go 10-6. But there are so many elements that have to come together with that one.

As to Moore. Here's one way to look at it, he lasted longer in the NFL than Timmy Chang, or Andre Ware for that matter! Remember, Chang threw for 17,000 yards in college, with 16,990 of those yards coming on screen passes. ;)
 
Jun 15, 2009
8,529
1
0
"16,990 of those yards coming on screen passes"
ROFL.
Chang another one of this butter arms. IIRC he pretty much sucked in NFL Europe...

Btw, where is your quote? I always love it. :) I cant put it together in your words (having had some Friday night pils :cool: ) It goes something like this: "the difference is..." more I cant put together.

I actually think Philly could go 10-6

Ah no, you are on the same ship as me. We pretty much dropped the ball on Kelly. Now its about guts ;)
For all his pre season "heroics", Philly is doomed, not even a luck streak of Eli Manning proportions can safe him. Admit to that too... :D
 
Jun 15, 2009
8,529
1
0
Re:

Sciocco said:
Philly will go 14-2 (resting starters final two games) this season. I have no doubts.
:D

... and Sanchez passing for 4.843 yards & 43 TDs after Bradford injured his non throwing hand in game two
 
Jan 24, 2012
1,169
0
0
Re: Re:

FoxxyBrown1111 said:
Sciocco said:
Philly will go 14-2 (resting starters final two games) this season. I have no doubts.
:D

... and Sanchez passing for 4.843 yards & 43 TDs after Bradford injured his non throwing hand in game two
I hope you meant Barkley, Sanchez will be traded for Manziel early in the season and he will backup Barkley. Tebow will score the Super Bowl winning TD.
 
Jun 15, 2009
8,529
1
0
LOLZ, yes, how could I have forgotten about Gnarls Barkley... our sports-bar running-gag. Totally undeserved jokes we made about him. I apologize now... So I correct my prediction: Barkley taking over, showing the middle finger to critics and passing for 5.084 yeards, matching Marinos 1984 numbers...
Kelly doing kinda a Phillips-Johnson-for-Flutie trick before the playoffs and benching his (now) starting QB Barkley for the back-up Tebow who, other than Rob Johnson, prevails trou-out the playoffs and running for a 86 yard game winning SB TD against the now Glennon led Jacksonville Jaguars...
 
I don't remember what I typed, but I do remember what Brock said. It was in response to the hear the Lions went 0-16, and people were saying they would lose to the NCAA champion (Florida that year, LSU the year before), and Brock said something like no way. The game would be one of those 56-3 blowouts with the Lions winning easily. Repeatedly blowing the college team off the line of scrimmage most every play. Then his words were, "The difference between the best and worst team and players in the NFL is about 'this much.'" As he held up his index finger and thumb less than an inch apart.
 
Jan 24, 2012
1,169
0
0
Re:

FoxxyBrown1111 said:
LOLZ, yes, how could I have forgotten about Gnarls Barkley... our sports-bar running-gag. Totally undeserved jokes we made about him. I apologize now... So I correct my prediction: Barkley taking over, showing the middle finger to critics and passing for 5.084 yeards, matching Marinos 1984 numbers...
Kelly doing kinda a Phillips-Johnson-for-Flutie trick before the playoffs and benching his (now) starting QB Barkley for the back-up Tebow who, other than Rob Johnson, prevails trou-out the playoffs and running for a 86 yard game winning SB TD against the now Glennon led Jacksonville Jaguars...
Thank you.
 
Jun 15, 2009
8,529
1
0
"The difference between the best and worst team and players in the NFL is about 'this much.'"

Yes that one I mean :) , and then you said he showed you the space between the thumb and forefinger (like a inch apart)... something like that... So true. Its like you and him standing before me showing it. It sticks to me forever.

So, after a couple of weeks this high trained football players are only separeted by moral and intensity.
A 2-14 team in 2014 can very well go 10-6 (or better) this year if jumping out of the gate good, while a 0-6 team may just goes trou the motions (> Tim Green thoughts about losing battles).

That is the reason pre season predictions dont work. Not for the computer nerds, not for the stat geeks, not for the insiders, not even for the Vegas experts...

So, I stand by my thing: Making as little pre season predictions as possible. This year its Kellys Eagles only. His experiment cries for fail. Worse players just cant perform better than better ones, even if the difference is only one inch between them.

Thank you.
Welcome :)
 
Re:

FoxxyBrown1111 said:
Yes that one I mean :) , and then you said he showed you the space between the thumb and forefinger (like a inch apart)... something like that... So true. Its like you and him standing before me showing it. It sticks to me forever.
As long as your visual has me, the puny cyclist, standing next to this giant of a man who is 6'6" and about 350 pounds.

:)
 
Jun 15, 2009
8,529
1
0
Must be a great pic. Yes I can visualize. Something like BigMac doing his jump passes to get the ball over the out-stretched arms of OL and DL men. But I guess I am even thinner, thats why I had to chose Baseball...
 
I want to see the real numbers, because agents have a tendency to completely overhype and inflate numbers in order to make themselves look great. It's like the "monster" contract Colin Kaepernick signed, which turned out to be not so monster after all.

But let's just pretend that Wilson ends up the third highest paid QB in the NFL. I hate to say it, but I don't think he's that good. Granted, I agree with Foxxy and think athletes are generally overpaid to begin with (not that the owners should just keep all the money), and Eli Manning is going to be way more overpaid than Russell, but if I created a list of the top 10 QBs for 2015, I'd probably put him on there. But not 3rd. Even if I try to use a crystal ball and look to, say the 2018 season, I'm still not sure he'll be the third best then. In fact, with a balloon contract the team is going to not be able to spread the wealth and sign other key players. He'll slowly lose them around him, and struggle. Probably back to about 10th best QB overall.

I don't know the team has a lot of room to push him though. Look at it this way. They can pay him a cheap $1.5 mil this year, and run the risk that he's unhappy and under performs. Then what? They franchise tag him? An arbiter will rule to pay him close to $20m anyway. Then they lose him and hope they can draft someone to replace him? That's the risk. Or do they hope he plays more poorly this year, so they can pay him less next year? That won't work either. They're kind of stuck paying him at least something, try to get it incentive laden, and try, hope, ask, in the future he'll restructure contracts, a la Brady, to pay for less cash to help the team, when he's already done that? NFL.com is saying he has not rejected any Seattle deal yet, just that the talks are ongoing.

Meanwhile, Goodell drags the Brady thing on and on and on. It's just laughable. And as I said before, the more I think about it, the more this should have been a 15 yard penalty at the start of the second half, and a fine for the team for each ball they tampered with. That's it. Now, it's become a joke.

Going back to the Timmy Chang comments. One thing I honestly left out was that it wasn't just that he piled up all those yards on short passes, which he mostly did. But he also played in a run and shoot, in a very soft conference. Same thing with Colt Brennan who followed him. Though Colt threw less interceptions, and had a slightly better arm, maybe. It's the same reason NCAA stars like Andre Ware, or Kliff Kingsbury and BJ Symons from Texas Tech never got anywhere in the NFL. When you throw on almost every down, in a five wide set, and most passes are between 5 and 15 yards, you're going to pile up the numbers. The guys at Hawaii just played against even weaker competition. If you look back at RG3 at Baylor, his career actually started this way with a lot of screens and quick slants. But he had a much stronger arm, and when he developed deep field accuracy, their entire offense changed around that, and look where it took him (at least until he got hurt in the NFL).

In some more amusing news, Adrien Peterson says he's going to try to rush for 2,500 yards this year. The Vikings actually have a fairly talented team, but this is laughable.

And best for last, Chip Kelly says no, he is not like the Kardashians.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000503829/article/chip-kelly-everyone-wants-their-private-life-private
 
Re:

on3m@n@rmy said:
p.s. Anyone interested in seeing how the Browns pan out this season? Due largely to injury, they lost their last 5 games last season to finish 7-9. Before that losing streak they were 7-4 and had some come from behind wins vs PIT and NO. If rookie DT Danny Shelton can help them get some QB hurries and plug up the middle they might be in a better position to win a few more games, especially since they lost a number of games by less than a TD. I'm interested, but it has nothing to do with Manziel either, who IMO needs more time.
That was partly due to an easy schedule. Those 7 wins include Tenessee, Jags, Bucs, Raiders and some of those were very close. Not saying they weren't good at times. They could have also beaten Pitssburgh and Baltimore. But they just as easily could have lost to Tenessee.

But they surrendered their chance at a good season this year in the 2014 draft. Taking Manziel when their own scouts had Bridgewater as top dog. Could also have taken OBJ who was the obvious pick.

Imagine they had walked out with OBJ and Bridgewater - what a more competent gm would have chosen. Say then they get 9 wins last year as a result and Josh Gordon doesn't resort to drugs because he's on a good team now.

they could be challenging for the superbowl this year. But the situation they have now, don't see it.
 
FIWI, I think it's obvious that McCown goes into the season as the starter. Not that he's a world beater, but he does have experience, and brings stable leadership with that. But (barring injuries or trades) I wouldn't be at all surprised if Manziel sits third on the depth chart behind Lewis, or Shaw, and doesn't play a single down all season, or maybe sees some garbage time late in the year.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY