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Now we can see, once again, what un-Godly big money can do to people. Greed. It denigrates the sport. Takes a sport that is pure and turns it into rot. This Wilson contract will be the turning point for me as to whether I continue as an NFL fan. There's only so much puke I can stand. The game is much purer at a lower level. Maybe I will spend my time making football recruiting highlight movies for kids who need help at schools who don't have the resources. Now That i could feel good about, and enjoy doing it. Anyone can find time doing other things they enjoy. The NFL has it pretty good right now, but the League, owners, and the players should not think it is forever a given. One of my favorite sayings is "the success road is always under construction". Problem is, how do you find success overcoming greed?
 
An appropriate amount of respect going on there in Oakland Merckxi. NFL network ran a big segment yesterday on Stabler, with lots of video from those old Raider games, including the pass that beat Miami. Almost down on the ground... man... that think looked like a shot put.
 
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on3m@n@rmy said:
Now we can see, once again, what un-Godly big money can do to people. Greed. It denigrates the sport. Takes a sport that is pure and turns it into rot. This Wilson contract will be the turning point for me as to whether I continue as an NFL fan. There's only so much puke I can stand. The game is much purer at a lower level. Maybe I will spend my time making football recruiting highlight movies for kids who need help at schools who don't have the resources. Now That i could feel good about, and enjoy doing it. Anyone can find time doing other things they enjoy. The NFL has it pretty good right now, but the League, owners, and the players should not think it is forever a given. One of my favorite sayings is "the success road is always under construction". Problem is, how do you find success overcoming greed?
I have struggled with the amount of money the players make for years (and then they hold out for more). I still enjoy watching games, but I "respect" the NFL less (if that makes sense). I don't buy any NFL merchandise, and I don't have cable (a big chunk of their $$) which is the only power I have over them.
 
It sours me too, and I'm a big fan. Wilson does come off as likeable, but so was Sean Alexander (who was also very religious) and Seahawk fans know very well how his $60m contract turned out for them. Each year I say I'm going to watch more college, and every year something happens in college where greed shows it's ugly head just the same. At least until you get down there in divisions. :(

There seems to also be consensus talk that Rodgers (agent) thinks Wilson should get the biggest contract in NFL history and be the highest paid QB. If that's the case, and they are looking for a very high number in guaranteed money, that would be just absurd. Even Aaron Rodgers $22m a year is $10m guaranteed. No one really thinks Wilson is as good as Aaron Rodgers, do they? But I just don't get the demand to have it fully guaranteed, or close to that. And I imagine the deal will be back loaded. What happens if in 5 years he's making $30m a year, and $24m of that is guaranteed, and the team has few other players they can afford, and then he gets hurt?

I did some digging, and there are a few QBs that do have 100% guaranteed money. But most are low paying, or low pay rookie contracts. I was however surprised that Jamis Winston's contract is 5 year guaranteed at $6m a year. Who agreed to that? If I were Wilson, I'd think I was worth more than that, at least. But the whole system is crazy. It's like Wall Street. What was it said during the CBA negotiations? It was greedy billionaires fighting with greedy millionaires. That about sums it up.
 
Jun 15, 2009
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R.I.P. Stabler... I don´t know him so that´s all I can say. Good QB...

Alpe d'Huez said:
It was greedy billionaires fighting with greedy millionaires. That about sums it up.
Turbo capitalism at it´s "finest". Only 30 years ago, all-pros like Hilgenberg and Dent made 50.000 $ per year (Bears were one of the lowest paid teams, that´s why they broke up). The average NFL salary in 1989 was about 200.000 $, now it´s 2+ Mios. How you explain that to Average Joe. Or why is he buying it? His yearly average salary may have risen from 30.000 to 55.000 in the same time.

jmdirt said:
Maybe god told Wilson to go after a fully guaranteed contract.
LOLZ. Go on, it´s funny...

jmdirt said:
I don't buy any NFL merchandise, and I don't have cable (a big chunk of their $$) which is the only power I have over them.
Welcome in the club. I also boycott NFL products. Watching the game for free in my favo Bar. Ofc, some coins go to the NFL since I drink beer in this pub which finances the sport chanel the owner has to pay for. But it´s minuscule...

Football is great. But the greed almost spoiled it.

on3m@n@rmy said:
This Wilson contract will be the turning point for me as to whether I continue as an NFL fan.
If you stop, come over to the AFL. :)
A w e s o m e as NFL. Same action, same thrill, same skill (but no forward pass :eek: )...
Underpaid players playing at highest level possible (Avg salary at circa 250.000, so 10 times less than the rich and pampered NFL players earn).
No "for entertainment" purpose extra thrill-ladden "fixing" (IOW: Much blow-outs, as it should be when weaker teams play stronger teams; but still 12% 4th-Quarter comebacks).
 
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@Alpe Winstons contract numbers were set in the CBA of 2011. The only thing that can be negotiated about is AFAIK offset. Meaning if he is cut and rehired. The money he gets from the new team offsets the money the previous team paid.

IIRC Winston does not have any offset language in his contract. While Mariota has still not signed his deal reportedly because the team wants offset language.

The amount of money in his contract is based on the position he is picked.

This system is much better than the old one where Jemarcus Russel i think earned tens of millions a year in his rookie dea(60 mil, 30 guaranteed). Thats one of the problems the Lions have been facing in their rebuild from Matt Millen and the 0-16 season. They picked so early so many times that they were in continuous cap problems throughout his tenure, and into the next administration due to dead money and bad players. The only hit he had was on Calvin Johnson. When they added the cap numbers for Stafford and Suh in 2009 and 2010 to Johnsons contract, they were stuck with 3 mega contracts. Then the year after came the new rookie wage scale, and building teams became much easier if you stunk enough to pick early. For example lucks deal 5 years after Russel was picked was 4 years, 22 million. But the Lions were still stuck with mega deals. :(

As for the money, I'm not thinking of it as nfl players grabbing money. They and the owners agreed to this system, and next year the cap for the teams are around 150 million. I'm thinking of it as Wilson demanding more money at the expense of his current and future teammates. I don't understand how other players think it's ok that there are so big differences between them. But I think that is a culture thing in the US.

Personally I think the cap system is one of the great things about the NFL.

As for Wilson and God, I think I read somewhere that he made his comments in a church setting, so it's not that strange with all that god talk.

Imagine if your a QB. You hear a voice in your head telling you what you should do in the next play. You do it, get hit big, perhaps a bit on the head too, then hear the voice in your head and do the same thing again. Personally I think it's strange that no QBs have succumbed to Schizophrenia during their careers. I mean a voice in your head telling you to do things that are liable to get you hurt is just classic Schizophrenia with auditory hallucinations. ;)
 
HaHa. Have to agree with that math.

I might check on the AFL. We have an IFL team in town, but the game's a bit weird. They always run two receivers in motion... running full speed... right towards the line of scrimmage from a starting position some 10 or more yards deep. The snap is timed when the receivers reach the line of scrimmage at full speed. Many of the plays start that way. I prefer high school football over that.

If there was a way I could watch some EFAF/IFAF games I would.

Brady will get his suspension reduced. That's a prediction. Okaaaay, so it is kind of a no-brainer. But that is solidified by this... Yesterday, NFL.com cornered Roger "the dodger" Goodell at some kushy resort area. I am not exactly sure where it was, but that does not matter. Also spotted with Roger was Robert Kraft. When the reporter asked questions about Kraft's presence there with him, Roger could not give a convincing answer. As he tried to get away he said something about conducting business meetings. [rabbit trail- i know some really accomplished liars, and I can say Roger is a horrible liar. He might as well announce "I'm lying".] Probably about how to reduce Brady's suspension. How's that? Well, just today the League announced that woman-beater Greg Hardy's suspension was being reduced from 10 games to 4 games. No way in H-E-L-p Brady is going to be suspended 4 games for "playing football" when a woman-beater also gets a 4 game suspension. Within the next few weeks (long enough a time lapse that ppl will forget about the reduction in Hardy's suspension) the League will announce that Brady's suspension is being reduced. I will guess to 2 games.

You might say Roger did not make the decision to reduce Hardy's suspension. And you'd be correct. The decision was made by arbitrator Harold Henderson... to be more precise... NFL-appointed arbitrator Harold Henderson... or former NFL Executive and now arbitrator Henderson. The same arbitrator that the NFLPA union has questioned over his neutrality in cases. Here's a link to 5-facts you need to know about Henderson. http://heavy.com/news/2015/07/harold-henderson-greg-hardy-suspension-appeal-reduced-suspension-nfl-roger-goodell/

The only other opinion to make is Roger is a certifiable crook. Another reeeeealy good feeling (sarcasm) he gives me about the NFL.
 
Jun 15, 2009
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but the game's a bit weird

That is the fun of it. Really takes some time, but once into it it´s addictive like true US football (unlike the pussy version of soccer or the crawling backwards "action" of Rugby ;) ).
The missing of the forward pass is more than equaled with non-stop play, and awesome kicks.
Tackles, speed, skill? Same level. Hallelujah!
 
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I remember watching AFL about 25 years ago for the first time and thinking it was like a better version of rugby. I never understood why it didn't take off. I'll have to start watching.

Thanks ToneBear, my Norwegian brother (I am of Scandinavian blood!). I always tip my hat to someone who knows more than me about this sport, and to have it come from someone from the motherland, is all the better.

ToreBear said:
This system is much better than the old one where Jemarcus Russel.
Indeed. Remember Sam Bradford's contract?

As for the money, I'm not thinking of it as nfl players grabbing money. They and the owners agreed to this system, and next year the cap for the teams are around 150 million. I'm thinking of it as Wilson demanding more money at the expense of his current and future teammates.
I agree with you there about the money. It's not like one side is ripping off fans, but they are battling one another. It's just alarming how greedy it gets. And this latest round, at least from his agent, makes Wilson seem like a hypocrite for less than a month ago saying he wanted what was best for him, and the team. And I don't mind him talking about God at church, or even elsewhere, that's fine. It's just weird some of the things people attribute to God, like I noted in my previous post.

I don't buy NFL products either. It's what's on TV, and that's it.
I don't understand how other players think it's ok that there are so big differences between them. But I think that is a culture thing in the US.
It is, however, I am of the opinion that if you talk to people under the age of about 40 in my country, you'll find this is something less and less accepted. Old white "crackers" are dying off, and being replaced by millennials who view things like the Soviet Union as ancient history, and concepts like "socialism" something to study, not something to have a knee-jerk reaction of terror to.
 
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AFL gives only 25% to its players, NFL greed took it up to 50% (see my latest links I put up a few days or weeks already? ago)... So yes greed kills. We only have hard numbers (I linked some months ago) from GB Packers. Their net profit was 5 million one year, around 35 the other. And now the star QB earns 20, alone. :eek: He is not the CEO, nor stock-holder, nor owner, but just a employee who profits from the past work of those making the NFL a profitable business (with some shady monolopy rules, but that is another story...). And they ask for even more. The players are no inch better than the owners, not an inch. Oh, and they are big time cheaters too one way (see Schlichter & Karras) or the other (put in your favourite PED user). There is nothing to admire than the game being played at the highest possible level. But thanks god I get that cheaper now. I can identify with Buddy Franklin. Those days are gone since at least McMahon retired (then FA and big time greed kicked in)...
 
Thanks for sharing. I've said it before many times, there are several players from the NFL that aren't in the Hall of Fame, but should be, and half of them are Raiders (because of old, political reasons). Stabler leads that group IMO. They are slowly getting in, witnessed by Ray Guy last year, and Tim Brown too, so hopefully the Snake will make it there posthumously.
 
Foxxy, I'm really surprised you said you didn't know that much about Stabler. Your knowledge of the NFL seems to go back that far, a while back you posted detailed evaluations of two of his contemporaries, Namath and Bradshaw. And btw, Namath and Stabler both went to Alabama, their time there overlapped, though just one year and Stabler was redshirted at the time.

Here's an article I think you'd be interested in. An interview with Bjoern Werner, the first German to be drafted into the NFL in the first round. He talks about how he learned about football growing up in Germany: http://mmqb.si.com/2015/07/10/nfl-football-in-europe-bjoern-werner-germany/

Definitely think the Snake should be in the HOF, but I think there are two reasons he isn't: 1) he started late, didn't become a starter till his late 20s. Though in those days, that wasn't so unusual, in fact until recently it was thought QBs needed several years to learn after coming out of college. 2) he was traded to Houston in the late 70s, and didn't enjoy the success there that he did in Oakland. In fact, his first year there, the Raiders steamrolled the Oilers in the playoffs on the way to their second SB, with Lester the Molester Hayes picking off Stabler twice, the second time for the TD that wrapped it up. If Stabler had stayed in Oakland, maybe he could have led the team to the two additional SBs they won. If he had, I think three SBs, with all those other playoff appearances (something like six title games they lost) would have done it.

He was part of some of the most memorable moments of the era, though. Not just that miracle pass against Miami. I hadn't realized he played in an even more famous playoff game, the Immaculate Reception. He came in for Lamonica in the fourth quarter, and actually scored the go-ahead TD on a long scramble. If not for that crazy Steeler TD at the end, Stabler would have been the hero of that game. Also, he played in the game that Madden once said he personally thought was one of the greatest of all time, the OT win vs. Baltimore in the playoffs the year after the Raiders won their first SB, where he made the famous ghost post pass.

For his career, he threw nearly 200 TD passes, with a nearly 60% completion rate that in those days was really good. I remember one year he completed 67% of his passes, which was the highest % in about 40 years at the time. He threw even more interceptions, about 220, but for comparison, Namath threw 20 fewer TD passes, about the same number of interceptions as Stabler, and had only a 50% career completion rate. Bradshaw threw about 210/210 TD/picks, with a 52% rate. Staubach, another HOFer from that era, threw about 150 TD passes with a 57% completion rate. So for the era, Stabler's numbers look very good.
 
Jun 15, 2009
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Merckx index said:
Foxxy, I'm really surprised you said you didn't know that much about Stabler
Oh, you got me wrong a bit... I meant I don´t know him much, because only know of his Football heroics. But do I know if he was a good character?
So I just said a short R.I.P., but stay away from further heaving somebody to a podest I don´t really know.
 
I think he was mostly looked upon as a wild spirit. He was known to party when in Oakland, but also had a certain friendly, southern comfort charm as well. His teammates had high respect for him, and he was looked upon as a great leader, even with the party persona. In his later years he got in trouble for drinking and driving a couple of times. His family was with him in his final days.
 
There is absolutely no statistical or career based reason that holds up to keep Stabler out of the HOF. It's a joke. Super bowl winner, all-time winning percentage, NFL MVP, and part of more historical games than anyone besides Bradshaw and that's debatable. 5 AFC Championship games. He's an all-time NFL hero. The only reason the Snake isn't in the hall is Raider hating.

That and he planted coke on a sportswriter who slagged him.
 
Aug 9, 2012
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@Thanks for the complement Alpe

Though I doubt I know as much as you about the game. Just the cap system I'm afraid. :eek: One of the things I like about the NFL is the complexity of it. So there is plenty more I have yet to know I don't know.

Do you know from where in Scandinavia your relatives are from?

As for Sam Bradford. Is he a bigger bust than Jemarcus Russel if his career ends right now?

Good to hear about the US evolving. It gives hope for the future.
 
ToreBear said:
Do you know from where in Scandinavia your relatives are from?
The valleys south and west from Trondheim.
Two cute stories for you. Once, I was in Huarez, Peru and ran into a few guys from Norway. I told them my last name was Anderson and I had Norwegian blood. My grandmother spoke fluent Norwegian, but I only know about 10 words. They didn't care. They were about ready to adopt me, "You must come to Norway! You must!!!" they were all saying. I probably could have booked a ticket to Oslo and they would have helped me out.

I was in western China once and ran into a man from Holland who had traveled throughout Norway. I told him I had ancestors from Trondheim and he told me that I needed to spend a month going from Bergen to Trondheim, and beyond to the north, telling everyone I was looking for my roots. "You will find your future wife there, and never return!" he said. :)

Sadly I never went (and no relationship has gone great since. :eek: ) I should have taken his advice.

As for Sam Bradford. Is he a bigger bust than Jemarcus Russel if his career ends right now?
No. But he would have to make a lot of top 10 lists. One big difference is that Russel (like Ryan Leaf) was a spoiled jerk for the most part. Bradford comes off as a nice guy.
 
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Alpe d'Huez said:
ToreBear said:
Do you know from where in Scandinavia your relatives are from?
The valleys south and west from Trondheim.
Two cute stories for you. Once, I was in Huarez, Peru and ran into a few guys from Norway. I told them my last name was Anderson and I had Norwegian blood. My grandmother spoke fluent Norwegian, but I only know about 10 words. They didn't care. They were about ready to adopt me, "You must come to Norway! You must!!!" they were all saying. I probably could have booked a ticket to Oslo and they would have helped me out.

I was in western China once and ran into a man from Holland who had traveled throughout Norway. I told him I had ancestors from Trondheim and he told me that I needed to spend a month going from Bergen to Trondheim, and beyond to the north, telling everyone I was looking for my roots. "You will find your future wife there, and never return!" he said. :)

Sadly I never went (and no relationship has gone great since. :eek: ) I should have taken his advice.

As for Sam Bradford. Is he a bigger bust than Jemarcus Russel if his career ends right now?
No. But he would have to make a lot of top 10 lists. One big difference is that Russel (like Ryan Leaf) was a spoiled jerk for the most part. Bradford comes off as a nice guy.
So you are a Trønder. I think us Norwegians love meeting other Norwegians abroad. Especially if they are from another country. :D

It sounds like being a jerk as a QB is something that is not conducive to a long carer. It's kind of logical in that you depend on your teammates to protect you and make you look good on the field. And with so few QBs coming NFL ready out of college, the coaching staffs are not likely to be willing to risk their future on someone thats not very likable, even if talented.
 
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FoxxyBrown1111 said:
but the game's a bit weird

That is the fun of it. Really takes some time, but once into it it´s addictive like true US football (unlike the pussy version of soccer or the crawling backwards "action" of Rugby ;) ).
The missing of the forward pass is more than equaled with non-stop play, and awesome kicks.
Tackles, speed, skill? Same level. Hallelujah!
What I really like about football is the short season, the dumbest sport on the planet.
 
Jun 15, 2009
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bikinggirl said:
FoxxyBrown1111 said:
but the game's a bit weird

That is the fun of it. Really takes some time, but once into it it´s addictive like true US football (unlike the pussy version of soccer or the crawling backwards "action" of Rugby ;) ).
The missing of the forward pass is more than equaled with non-stop play, and awesome kicks.
Tackles, speed, skill? Same level. Hallelujah!
What I really like about football is the short season, the dumbest sport on the planet.
You may got that wrong girl. This is the NFL thread, not the soccer one (which some people call football too); this thread, where people discuss matters of 22 people chase a ball to score one or two lucky goals, is somewhere else...
 
Jun 28, 2015
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FoxxyBrown1111 said:
bikinggirl said:
FoxxyBrown1111 said:
but the game's a bit weird

That is the fun of it. Really takes some time, but once into it it´s addictive like true US football (unlike the pussy version of soccer or the crawling backwards "action" of Rugby ;) ).
The missing of the forward pass is more than equaled with non-stop play, and awesome kicks.
Tackles, speed, skill? Same level. Hallelujah!
What I really like about football is the short season, the dumbest sport on the planet.
You may got that wrong girl. This is the NFL thread, not the soccer one (which some people call football too); this thread, where people discuss matters of 22 people chase a ball to score one or two lucky goals, is somewhere else...
I didn't pick the wrong thread this is exactly what it is, American football the dumbest sport on the planet, got it. Look at these sissyes they all look like they just arrived on a motorbike, they run 10 yards and loose their breath. They are all overrated and overpaid. 8 home games a season? I like that.
 
Jun 15, 2009
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Oh sorry then, really thought you mean soccer, and we agree this being the dumbest sport on the planet...
Anyway, what is "dumb" about Football?
Sure, NFL players are overpaid... Winner takes it all BS american style. Look at the back ups. They are on the same talent level as the starters*, but are really lucky if they earn 3 Mio in a career. After taxes and agent fees aprox. 1.5 mio left, for a lifetime dedicated to Football at the highest level. That puts things into perspective.

* A starter like Eli Manning earning 20 Mio per year is insane. But he got there due luck, his surname, and being relatively injury free. But for every lucky lottery winner like him there are 10 QBs who just were unlucky. Google Toby Korrodi for example. A tremdous talent being at the wrong college at the wrong time > scouts didnt notice him > thus he landed in the NFL as undrafted interchangebale meat. This minuscule are the differences at the top of the top of top between top earner and also ran.
 

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