National Football League

[BullsFan22]

Re:

I found interesting Dieon Sanders talk before last night's game that he expected to see Kaepernick late in the game, and to make a splash. And today, Chip Kelly was asked pointedly about the QB position and said everything was on the table. But as the old saw goes, the backup quarterback is the most popular guy in town...until he actually plays. And despite one good season where he stood behind a great OL, and great defense, and used his legs to surprise teams, I haven't seen anything from Kaep since, other than bad playing. Sometimes really bad playing.

But Gabbert hasn't played well either, though he's hardly to squarely blame for the 49ers loss. He's used his feet surprisingly well at times, and been able to do what Kaep never showed the ability to do well, move with the pocket, and throw with accuracy on the run. He also can't be blamed for dropped balls, including those by players who should know better.

Having said all that, desperate situations lead to desperate decisions, and despite this being a rebuild year for certain, I imagine at some point in order to save his job, and appease some critics, we will see Kaepernick play. What we get out of that remains to be seen. I'll just be really surprised, I mean extremely surprised, if he can sustain any quality play at all when he does.

As a footnote, despite seeming like he's been in the league a while, Gabbert is actually younger than Kaepernick, by about two years. 26 to 28.

In the event anyone is curious, here's the 49ers schedule:

@Buffalo, TB, NO, @Arizona, NE, @Mia, @Chi, NY Jets, @Atl, @StL, Sea.

The 49ers will take a couple years or more to become contenders again. You are right, Kaepernick was thriving for a bit there due mostly by the OL and the defense. His mobility also helped, but he isn't Russell Wilson.

That's an interesting schedule. Two exceptional teams in NE and SEA that the 49ers will have tons of trouble against, STL with a great defense and a surprisingly good start to the season, ATL and AZ, two great offenses, Buffalo who is neither great nor terrible, TB likewise, though slightly more towards bad, Saints who should be better but have a chance still to turn it around, the Bears who are terrible so far, and Jets who are hit or miss.

Not sure what their record will be come the end of the season. 11 games....I'd say they might win 4 and lose 7. That means a 5-11 record. Actually not that terrible considering all the problems and changes they've had.

 

[movingtarget]

From what I have heard about Kaepernick, Gabbert is doing and has been doing much better than him at practice. No one with a brain believes that Kaepernick will turn this team around as you still have to tackle and catch the ball and run a route that you can score from. People are saying exactly the same things about Gabbert now that they said about Kaepernick last year. He was rubbish last year even worse than Gabbert has been this year. Only constant tinkering with the roster and smart draft picks, some smart coaching and a better attitude turns the team around and it probably won't happen next year either. Their wide receivers are mostly mediocre and most other parts of their game are just not solid enough to cause any fear in other teams.

The weird thing is that they beat up the Vikings in week one last year and then went backwards and then did the same to the Rams this year before dropping off again. The only difference this year is that they have not been completely thrashed like they were by the Steelers and Cardinals early last year and they are averaging more points per game. I could be wrong but I don't think Chip will use Kaep just yet unless the wheels fall off completely for Gabbert and the team and so far that has not happened. There is some chance that Ponder will hit the field if the QB woes can't be sorted out but he has not played a game since 2014. He looked good in the preseason and has supposed to be practicing well. The trouble is the good things the 49ers are doing are being cancelled out by the bad things.

 

[Amsterhammer]

NE@CLE
PHI@DET
CHI@IND
TEN@MIA
WSH@BAL
HOU@MIN
NYJ@PIT
ATL@DEN
CIN@DAL
BUF@LA
SD@OAK
NYG@GB
TB@CAR

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

NE@CLE
PHI@DET
CHI@IND
TEN@MIA
WSH@BAL
HOU@MIN
NYJ@PIT
ATL@DEN
CIN@DAL
BUF@LA
SD@OAK
NYG@GB
TB@CAR

One that stands out for me is the Washington at Baltimore. That's an interesting pick!

 

[Tank Engine]

Re: Re:

One that stands out for me is the Washington at Baltimore. That's an interesting pick!

And correct. The fumble into the endzone after the interception was a huge (and crazy) play.
Meanwhile, the Dallas offence is being clinical and the Bengals can move the ball, but they're self destructing when getting close to scoring territory.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Agree with everything Clayton says here about Seattle. But he failed to mention Seattle's OL as an area that needs improvement. Actually, they did pretty well against the Jets 2 weeks ago. Hmmm.
http://sports.mynorthwest.com/197094/stats-dont-lie-where-seahawks-are-excelling-need-to-improve/

This week's results are not too surprising so far.

 

[Amsterhammer]

Re: Re:

NE@CLE
PHI@DET
CHI@IND
TEN@MIA
WSH@BAL
HOU@MIN
NYJ@PIT
ATL@DEN
CIN@DAL
BUF@LA
SD@OAK
NYG@GB
TB@CAR

One that stands out for me is the Washington at Baltimore. That's an interesting pick!

In case you somehow missed it, I am a Skins fan, for my sins. It was an awful, ugly game, with that bizarre touchback as the highlight.

 

[movingtarget]

Raiders and Chargers was a crazy game. The Chargers coach is probably hoping that his team will soon turn up for a fourth quarter ! Vikings still doing well. Not too surprised by the Eagles losing although the way they lost was a surprise. Falcons still doing well and the Cowboys from what I have seen of them are getting the job done and look pretty solid even with injury problems. The Panthers look nothing like the team from 2015.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I did see the Cowboys, and they do look solid. That OL is something. Best in the NFL from what I can tell. Granted, Prescott and Eliot and others deserve credit too.

That loss last night for Carolina was ugly. Much of the game was hard to watch. Anderson's first int wasn't as bad as it seemed, but the second one really hurt and was a poor decision. But it was also some of the blown coverage, the late face mask penalty, which was as accidental as anything, and the way the offense couldn't string plays together in a series, and the defense couldn't hold TB with any consistancy. One play they would stuff them, then another. Then somehow give up enough yards for another set of downs.

 

[Pricey_sky]

Re:

I did see the Cowboys, and they do look solid. That OL is something. Best in the NFL from what I can tell. Granted, Prescott and Eliot and others deserve credit too.

That loss last night for Carolina was ugly. Much of the game was hard to watch. Anderson's first int wasn't as bad as it seemed, but the second one really hurt and was a poor decision. But it was also some of the blown coverage, the late face mask penalty, which was as accidental as anything, and the way the offense couldn't string plays together in a series, and the defense couldn't hold TB with any consistancy. One play they would stuff them, then another. Then somehow give up enough yards for another set of downs.

We were abysmal last night, got lucky when the Buccs gifted us a penalty and 1st down for roughing the kicker which led to our 2nd TD and still had a chance to win until Anderson fluffed a 1st a goal. There are still hints of a good team that reached the SB last season, but we are a pale imitation of that side and so damn inconsistent.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

As I somewhat predicted, SF is reporting Colin Kaepernick will get the start for the 49ers against the Bills this week. Like what happens every time a situation like this occurs, the 49ers are talking about how great Keap has been throwing the ball in practice (contradicting what outsiders have said), and he gives them their best chance to win, etc. I think part of what's going on other than the hopelessness of losing all the time in rebuilding, is that they're able to restructure some of Kaep's contract to where they don't have to sit him all year, or pay him huge amounts of cash.

My personal thought is he's going to disappoint, and play little better than when we last saw him. Healthy or not. I think Merckx originally linked the MMQB article on Kaep and RG3 that analyzed it perfectly:

(Kelly's system is based on) quick decision-making, which is far from Kaepernick’s forte. Kaepernick is slow to process coverages (when he processes them at all) and doesn’t have a great feel for moving around in the pocket. Kaepernick can be hard to catch when he runs around, but too many of his run-around plays are fruitless because they never should have been run-around plays to start.

Too often Kaepernick will look to abandon the pocket the instant he reaches the top of his dropback. Coaches hate this because it nullifies the play’s route designs. It can also create pressure where none existed...Remember, offensive tackles can’t see the quarterback; they’re blocking under the assumption that he’ll be in the pocket. When the quarterback flees, his technique and his blockers’ techniques are likely to break down. Also, the throwing windows and angles are altered, which often leads to minus results.

Like RG3 he has an undeniable physical talent, and can make plays, which leads to some excitement. But people get wooed by that when it happens in big plays, not realizing games are long, and seasons are long.

The article hinted at what we discussed here, it's very difficult for a player to change styles mid-career. RG3 even said he wanted to, he didn't want to run, he wanted to be a pocket passer, and he had the arm for it. But he for the most part couldn't. All it took was one play too many, and how he's likely out for the season, again. Just the same, as I said before, I imagine we'll see the same Kaep we did last year.

It's an excellent article, and well worth reading again.

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/03/02/colin-kaepernick-robert-griffin-rg3-trade-future

I did like Gabbert's comment on being demoted though, "It sucks. I don't like it." Finally, someone honest.

 

[movingtarget]

Apart from a good defensive display against the Rams in week one the 49ers have been struggling against the run game and their defense has been decimated with injuries. They simply don't have the depth to plug the gaps. Add that to the worst offense in the NFL and it's a bad mix. I have watched a few of the Bills games this year and there is a chance they will simply overrun the 49ers if they get their running backs going. This will be Kaep's NFL audition as some are saying as if he does not improve on his poor season last year I really don't know who would want him unless they get him cheap and he was not prepared to take a pay cut to go to Denver. Others have also said that Kaep is a wide receiver playing QB and they have a point as his running is much better than his passing. I don't see Kaep doing better than Gabbert in this team and if he did i would be surprised.

I expect another roster shake up at the end of the season for the 49ers especially on their offense and many people are already saying that the GM Trent Baalke's demise is imminent or should be. I would not be surprised to see Gabbert back on the field late in the season or they simply throw the ball to Christian Ponder and ask him to do better. It's hard to see them turning this around this year at least. But one thing is clear, their first two draft picks will be QB and WR and if Kaep leaves they will try to pick up an experienced QB as well as Gabbert does not seem to be up to it, the standard that is required week in and week out but then the whole team is struggling, they seem to be at sixes and sevens at the moment. Even Chip has admitted in his latest interview that they just don't have the depth in the roster which many seem to think is a veiled criticism of Baalke and his drafting record.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Back when SF battled SEA for the NFC championship, Kap used to make good decisions running the read-option. And he burned teams using it. However, back then I thought he made bad decisions otherwise. But I think there is more to it than just Kap (or Gabbert). When Kelly made the jump to the NFL he had success with his offense in Philly. That has changed. Read this in depth analysis of Chip Kelly's recent lack of success with his offense:
https://theringer.com/chip-kelly-san-francisco-49ers-offense-f332f053870e#.4h2xy63cw
Some points made:
- plays that look like read option, but involve no reads or options (read-option was a Kap staple)
- Kelly's offense is now predictable (article explains why), which explains why the running game has run aground
- Kelly has not adapted to the pace of the game set by officials (taking Kelly out of his element vs. days at Oregon)
If there is a season-ending roster shake up, it might actually be a shake up at the HC position if the GM or ownership sees Kelly as being unable to adapt.

 

[movingtarget]

Back when SF battled SEA for the NFC championship, Kap used to make good decisions running the read-option. And he burned teams using it. However, back then I thought he made bad decisions otherwise. But I think there is more to it than just Kap (or Gabbert). When Kelly made the jump to the NFL he had success with his offense in Philly. That has changed. Read this in depth analysis of Chip Kelly's recent lack of success with his offense:
https://theringer.com/chip-kelly-san-francisco-49ers-offense-f332f053870e#.4h2xy63cw
Some points made:
- plays that look like read option, but involve no reads or options (read-option was a Kap staple)
- Kelly's offense is now predictable (article explains why), which explains why the running game has run aground
- Kelly has not adapted to the pace of the game set by officials (taking Kelly out of his element vs. days at Oregon)
If there is a season-ending roster shake up, it might actually be a shake up at the HC position if the GM or ownership sees Kelly as being unable to adapt.

Very interesting article. I don't see Kelly going after one season even if it's a horror season. I think he will get at least another year but it does seem that many people are split over what he offers as a coach and whether he will endure in the NFL. He did a good job with the Eagles at least for the first two seasons.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

As I somewhat predicted, SF is reporting Colin Kaepernick will get the start for the 49ers against the Bills this week. Like what happens every time a situation like this occurs, the 49ers are talking about how great Keap has been throwing the ball in practice (contradicting what outsiders have said), and he gives them their best chance to win, etc. I think part of what's going on other than the hopelessness of losing all the time in rebuilding, is that they're able to restructure some of Kaep's contract to where they don't have to sit him all year, or pay him huge amounts of cash.

My personal thought is he's going to disappoint, and play little better than when we last saw him. Healthy or not. I think Merckx originally linked the MMQB article on Kaep and RG3 that analyzed it perfectly:

(Kelly's system is based on) quick decision-making, which is far from Kaepernick’s forte. Kaepernick is slow to process coverages (when he processes them at all) and doesn’t have a great feel for moving around in the pocket. Kaepernick can be hard to catch when he runs around, but too many of his run-around plays are fruitless because they never should have been run-around plays to start.

Too often Kaepernick will look to abandon the pocket the instant he reaches the top of his dropback. Coaches hate this because it nullifies the play’s route designs. It can also create pressure where none existed...Remember, offensive tackles can’t see the quarterback; they’re blocking under the assumption that he’ll be in the pocket. When the quarterback flees, his technique and his blockers’ techniques are likely to break down. Also, the throwing windows and angles are altered, which often leads to minus results.

Like RG3 he has an undeniable physical talent, and can make plays, which leads to some excitement. But people get wooed by that when it happens in big plays, not realizing games are long, and seasons are long.

The article hinted at what we discussed here, it's very difficult for a player to change styles mid-career. RG3 even said he wanted to, he didn't want to run, he wanted to be a pocket passer, and he had the arm for it. But he for the most part couldn't. All it took was one play too many, and how he's likely out for the season, again. Just the same, as I said before, I imagine we'll see the same Kaep we did last year.

It's an excellent article, and well worth reading again.

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/03/02/colin-kaepernick-robert-griffin-rg3-trade-future

I did like Gabbert's comment on being demoted though, "It sucks. I don't like it." Finally, someone honest.

Hard to disagree with most of that summary of RG3 and Kaep. As for Gabbert, he seems like a straight shooter and knows he has not played well. It's too bad that some people seem to be blaming him for everything which is unfair and silly.

 

[Billie]

Re: Re:

Hard to disagree with most of that summary of RG3 and Kaep. As for Gabbert, he seems like a straight shooter and knows he has not played well. It's too bad that some people seem to be blaming him for everything which is unfair and silly.

he should be blamed. The guy is clearly an awful nfl QB and has shown so in every NFL game he's ever played. You know what you get with him and it's not good enough. Better to try other options and first one is Kaep who atleast has already shown previously that he can play at above-average QB level. Yes he was nowhere that level last year but don't forget he needed surgery on both his right throwing shoulder and his thumb. No idea if it'll work out or not but if it doesn't i could even see them giving Ponder a shot, from what i remember from him with the Vikes he's surely better than Gabbert.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Well, it's now official that Kaep's contract has been redone. If nothing else it will make him easier to shop. But comparing these three QB's you have to look at the systems and teams these guys played with as well. I still fully expect Kaepernick to suck for the most part and lose games as quickly as Gabbert did, but at I do think he'll still have some highlight reel plays from time to time that will wow people.

Ponder might bring some stability that neither Gabbert, or Kaepernick have, though his arm is weaker than both.

The bottom line as I see it is the 49ers stink. They need position help or a total overhaul almost across the board.

Siemian questionable for Denver against the Chargers. I don't see the Broncos losing anyway.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

Well, it's now official that Kaep's contract has been redone. If nothing else it will make him easier to shop. But comparing these three QB's you have to look at the systems and teams these guys played with as well. I still fully expect Kaepernick to suck for the most part and lose games as quickly as Gabbert did, but at I do think he'll still have some highlight reel plays from time to time that will wow people.

Ponder might bring some stability that neither Gabbert, or Kaepernick have, though his arm is weaker than both.

The bottom line as I see it is the 49ers stink. They need position help or a total overhaul almost across the board.

Siemian questionable for Denver against the Chargers. I don't see the Broncos losing anyway.

If the Chargers are up in the 4th quarter, then the Broncos are definitely winning.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

Well, it's now official that Kaep's contract has been redone. If nothing else it will make him easier to shop. But comparing these three QB's you have to look at the systems and teams these guys played with as well. I still fully expect Kaepernick to suck for the most part and lose games as quickly as Gabbert did, but at I do think he'll still have some highlight reel plays from time to time that will wow people.

Ponder might bring some stability that neither Gabbert, or Kaepernick have, though his arm is weaker than both.

The bottom line as I see it is the 49ers stink. They need position help or a total overhaul almost across the board.

Siemian questionable for Denver against the Chargers. I don't see the Broncos losing anyway.

If the Chargers are up in the 4th quarter, then the Broncos are definitely winning.

Coaches should show the final quarter of the last Chargers game to their players as a good example of how to throw away a football game. Some of it was so bad it was comical. But at least they are consistent !

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

Well, it's now official that Kaep's contract has been redone. If nothing else it will make him easier to shop. But comparing these three QB's you have to look at the systems and teams these guys played with as well. I still fully expect Kaepernick to suck for the most part and lose games as quickly as Gabbert did, but at I do think he'll still have some highlight reel plays from time to time that will wow people.

Ponder might bring some stability that neither Gabbert, or Kaepernick have, though his arm is weaker than both.

The bottom line as I see it is the 49ers stink. They need position help or a total overhaul almost across the board.

Siemian questionable for Denver against the Chargers. I don't see the Broncos losing anyway.

Losing their best QB won't help the Broncos but I agree, they should win. As for the 49ers I think they are setting it up for Kaep to go soon and like you said I see a return to the old Kaep as very unlikely especially with the team he is playing in. If bad goes to worse this season then Chip still might survive for another season but GM Baalke probably won't. Someone will be held responsible and I think they will also clean out most of the non performing players that have been around for a while and are not performing well. Seattle snapped up Garrison Smith, letting him go was a mistake.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Re: Re:

Well, it's now official that Kaep's contract has been redone. If nothing else it will make him easier to shop. But comparing these three QB's you have to look at the systems and teams these guys played with as well. I still fully expect Kaepernick to suck for the most part and lose games as quickly as Gabbert did, but at I do think he'll still have some highlight reel plays from time to time that will wow people.

Ponder might bring some stability that neither Gabbert, or Kaepernick have, though his arm is weaker than both.

The bottom line as I see it is the 49ers stink. They need position help or a total overhaul almost across the board.

Siemian questionable for Denver against the Chargers. I don't see the Broncos losing anyway.

Losing their best QB won't help the Broncos but I agree, they should win. As for the 49ers I think they are setting it up for Kaep to go soon and like you said I see a return to the old Kaep as very unlikely especially with the team he is playing in. If bad goes to worse this season then Chip still might survive for another season but GM Baalke probably won't. Someone will be held responsible and I think they will also clean out most of the non performing players that have been around for a while and are not performing well. Seattle snapped up Garrison Smith, letting him go was a mistake.

Absolutely agree with the Kap setup comment. Also agree with it being unlikely Kap can return to old form with SF. Kap's best chance to rebound will be with another team (strong defense, and good run game) that suits his abilities (or lack of) so he's not called upon for heroics. I don't think Chip and Kap will work out together.

 

[movingtarget]

Good to see the Chargers get a win. They will rue the lost opportunities in earlier games. Their win/loss ratio should have been much better at this stage if not for collapses late in games. It's not that they have played bad they have just finished bad where it counts most. Their coach will be a relieved man. Seahawks v Falcons and Cowboys v Packers should be decent games. Cannot see the Packers winning from what I have seen of both teams so far.

 

[Billie]

Packers are underrated. Thompson and Mccarthy deserve lots blame for how they came up with this receiver core and how they let them play but talent and depth in the defensive backfield, on the OLine and DLine is unmatched by any other team.

Their run defense in YPC is best ever atm.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

Packers are underrated. Thompson and Mccarthy deserve lots blame for how they came up with this receiver core and how they let them play but talent and depth in the defensive backfield, on the OLine and DLine is unmatched by any other team.

Their run defense in YPC is best ever atm.

Should be an interesting match up and also to see how they handle Elliott who most other teams have had trouble with and whether the Cowboys QB is still as effective. But I agree the Packers weakness is in the offense for sure.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Falcons have #1 offense in the NFL (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2016//index.htm#)
and #1 in the NFL in first down yards (http://www.hawkblogger.com/2016/10/falcons-rely-first-magic.html).
So Sunday's match vs Seattle will be a good one. Especially with Seattle ranked #2 in the NFL in holding opponents to three yards or less on first down, and #2 in NFL in total yards (rush+pass) per attempt.
Seattle ranks last in the NFL in scoring (points for), but Falcons rank #28 in points allowed (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2016/opp.htm)
The game Sunday likely will be very very wet.