National Football League

[on3m@n@rmy]

Re: Re:

Thursday night football has the potential to live down to the TNF billing. I'd like to hold out some hope that it could be a good game but...

Well it sounds like Beathard will probably be out as he hurt his wrist which means with Mullens, SF is now down to the third string QB. Beathard was horrible last week. It will be the last time Oakland play SF so there will be some bragging rights but a high quality game.......probably not. I will settle for a good contest.

Definitely a game for the DVR. No way watching this real-time with all the breaks & commies. But I will watch the thing, probably not so much for entertainment, but will be watching specific things. Line play in particular. Interested in SF's McGlinchey (OL), who is reportedly doing very well. Also interested in how well banged up Oakland OL performs, but I'm not expecting much.

 

[jmdirt]

Pretty good start to a career when your first two drives end in TDs, and you stomp your cross town rival while doubling your teams win total (16/22, 262, 3 TDs).

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

That was just UGLY. What a total embarrassment for the entire Raiders organization. So much for "commitment to excellence". Though the Raiders made him look like Joe Montana, I still have to credit Nick Mullen, he played with great poise, threw with accuracy, and when the Raiders did try to pressure him, he recognized it and pulled the trigger.

 

[Catwhoorg]

That was painful to watch. The Raiders really are in bad shape now (but obviously have a great draft ahead of them)

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

That was just UGLY. What a total embarrassment for the entire Raiders organization. So much for "commitment to excellence". Though the Raiders made him look like Joe Montana, I still have to credit Nick Mullen, he played with great poise, threw with accuracy, and when the Raiders did try to pressure him, he recognized it and pulled the trigger.

Yeah the Raiders were pitiful. The 49ers have a bye then play the Giants. Another game they could win and probably should win. Mostert's broken arm was a downer as he has been in good form in the past few weeks and was forming a good RB combination with Breida. Sums up the 49ers season with injuries so far.

 

[jmdirt]

A few of the trades don't make sense to me. Tate? He's their best receiver, maybe issues in the locker room? Dix? Who else do they have in the secondary? Montgomery? He was a golden child pretty recently (yes dumb decision and fumble but...) and now he's packen to BAL.

 

[the delgados]

Re:

That was just UGLY. What a total embarrassment for the entire Raiders organization. So much for "commitment to excellence". Though the Raiders made him look like Joe Montana, I still have to credit Nick Mullen, he played with great poise, threw with accuracy, and when the Raiders did try to pressure him, he recognized it and pulled the trigger.

I have a theory. Please hear me out.
Although Gruden has managed to stockpile a bunch of draft picks, trading star players and tank when the team didnèt need to tank leads me to think Gruden is a genius.
He managed to fool ownership into giving him a hundred million and get fired a year later so he can collect the dough and buy an island somewhere.
That would be a glorious eff you.

Edited to add that I am seriously pissed at the Buffalo Bills, my favourite team ever. I know they have a bunch of racist dolts for their fan base, but there is absolutely no reason to start a re-tread at QB before signing Kaepernick. Now the dinosaur Anderson is out, and whaddaya know...Peterson is back in charge. What a nightmare.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Re:

A few of the trades don't make sense to me. Tate? He's their best receiver, maybe issues in the locker room? Dix? Who else do they have in the secondary? Montgomery? He was a golden child pretty recently (yes dumb decision and fumble but...) and now he's packen to BAL.

To be fair that was a big screw up and if he played for the Patriots he would have been traded that day.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

That fumble arguably cost them the game, maybe the most pivotal game of the season. But one play doesn't make a game.

What I find interesting with Buffalo is that they just signed Terrell Pryor, who now becomes the team's best receiver and quarterback!

I don't know if it's racism, or just pure bull headed stupidity that no team will even consider Kaepernick at this point. But every time someone like Derek Anderson or Tom Savage gets signed to a team, is one more step I think he's going to win his lawsuit against the NFL - something I didn't think was possible a year or so ago.

That's a pretty good theory on Gruden and the Raiders! In fact, they are almost certainly headed for a 1-15 season, which they haven't done since Carr's rookie year (I think this team is worse though, because on paper this team should be a lot better than that one, which was a team in obvious transition and a down year). Plus, they shouldn't have beaten the Browns, which means Gruden could be headed into Hue Jackson territory! With all these draft picks that the Raiders have stockpiled, I'm convinced he thinks he can pull a Pete Carroll and build with talent evaulation in the draft. But when I think back on Gruden when he coached before, he never did that, not with the Raiders or Buccaneers. He did it with veterans. Some were players he just inherited on the team, and others were players who were good, but just needed a chance to show how good they really were (Rich Gannon), a few more just fell into his lap, like most of the TB team, or Jerry Rice for example. So if Raiders fans, or Gruden himself, think he can just draft his way to a Super Bowl, he has no history of that.

 

[Nomad]

Re: Re:

Edited to add that I am seriously pissed at the Buffalo Bills, my favourite team ever. I know they have a bunch of racist dolts for their fan base, but there is absolutely no reason to start a re-tread at QB before signing Kaepernick. Now the dinosaur Anderson is out, and whaddaya know...Peterson is back in charge. What a nightmare.

And just when you thought things couldn't get any worse:

"Buffalo Bills not ruling out Josh Allen missing rest of 2018 season."

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2018/10/29/18040690/buffalo-bills-not-ruling-out-josh-allen-missing-rest-of-2018-season-brandon-beane

It is definitely a nightmare for Buffalo; Allen could miss the rest of the season, no decent backup in their organization and at 2-6 with the backend of their schedule pretty tough, I'd say their season is trashed.

 

[jmdirt]

RE: Kaep: I know that I've already said this, but he's been out too long to be able to just jump back in and be solid. I also wonder what his mindset is...does he want to play? We are all clambering for his return, but maybe his voice mail is off for the NFL.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

CHI@BUF - It's the Bills.
TB@CAR - Carolina on a roll at 5-2. TB did name Fitzpatrick starter for the rest of the year. But he must play from ahead to lead them to victory.
KC@CLE - Should be plenty of points, and Browns may be motivated, but KC has way too many weapons, and playing at least okay on defense of late.
NYJ@MIA - Osweiller has been playing better than he has since his first stint in Denver.
PIT@BAL - This should be a traditionally tough game, but I went with the home team, though I think the Steelers are better overall.
DET@MIN - Vikings under-performing, and this win will help.
ATL@WAS - No one seems to notice the Skins are 5-2, in first place and playing well.
HOU@DEN - While Houston has played well of late, I took the home team.
LAC@SEA - I still think the Chargers are a top team, but Bosa is still out, Gordon hurt, and Seattle is playing very well of late. Their three losses by a total of just 12 points, Denver and Chicago on the road, and by 2 to the Rams at home.
LAR@NO - Here's the one game to watch. The Rams have shown chinks in their armor in the last few weeks. They should have lost to the Packers, and barely beat the Broncos and Seahawks. Fowler hasn't been with the team long enough to contribute that much, and the Saints are on fire, and at home. But I won't be shocked if the Rams both score, and hold the Saints to a close enough game to win it.
GB@NE Packers are playing better, but the Patriots are too good. At 3-3-1 you may think the Packers must win this game, but they are actually only one win out of first place. Expect one of those 34-29 games. As I look at the schedule, there's a chance the Patriots run the table after this. Only 2 real tough games, Min and Pit, both at home.

TEN@DAL - Cowboys are so very difficult to gauge. They look like playoff contenders one week, and a wreck the next. But, they are 3-0 at home, so I went with them in this regard.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Re:

A few of the trades don't make sense to me. Tate? He's their best receiver, maybe issues in the locker room? Dix? Who else do they have in the secondary? Montgomery? He was a golden child pretty recently (yes dumb decision and fumble but...) and now he's packen to BAL.

There has been some smoke in the air surrounding Tate going back to his days in Seattle. Rumors, and just rumors, were he had an affair with Russ Wilson's first wife, which led to the Wilson's divorce. Tate was traded to the Lions following that season. Tate & Wilson were supposedly close friends off the field, but Wilson has never come forth to a say those rumors are false. Hmmm. It is possible Tate's character or locker room presence is questionable, but who really knows? If you Google this instance you can find this and other tidbits about him that make one wonder. Smoking guns?

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Probably 2 of the most interesting games of the year on your list of predictions:
LAR@NO - Agree this is the one game to watch.
GB@NE - Probably more hype around this game than should be. I don't think GB has a chance. Still, it's Rogers, but that's it.

LAC@SEA - Seattle has some injuries too, but don't seem to be too bad except for Thorpe (backup/nickle DB) who is doubtful. But brow raisers are starters KJ Wright, McDougald, & Chris Carson are all questionable. Then some nicks to starters who I think will play: Duane Brown (LT), Baldwin (WR), Fluker (RG), Rasheem Green & Jordan (both DE), Jaran Reed & Shamar Stephen (both interior DL). This game could go either way, and home field is no gimme for Seattle against the likes of Phillip Rivers, who has played in Seattle before and shown the noise does not bother him.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Bruce Irvin cut by Raiders. Gruden's roster tear-down continues. Kind of surprised me, but I shouldn't have been. Limited skillset, limited role.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles...t-by-raiders-amid-jon-grudens-roster-teardown
Seattle might be interested in bringing him back with injuries to two DEs and losing Michael Kendricks to suspension for insider trading. I say MIGHT, but I would not bet on it.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

RE: Kaep: I know that I've already said this, but he's been out too long to be able to just jump back in and be solid. I also wonder what his mindset is...does he want to play? We are all clambering for his return, but maybe his voice mail is off for the NFL.

Week after week it seems that Kaep's chances are becoming slimmer. You would think with the QB injuries and the way some teams are struggling, If it was going to happen it would have already happened. The Bills is one place I couldn't see him going. Pretty sure he still wants to play but separating fact from fake news is difficult these days. The story that some people were spreading about Eric Reid and Kaep only wanting to sign if they were assured to start seemed implausible to me.

 

[the delgados]

Re:

RE: Kaep: I know that I've already said this, but he's been out too long to be able to just jump back in and be solid. I also wonder what his mindset is...does he want to play? We are all clambering for his return, but maybe his voice mail is off for the NFL.

CFL calling!
Hey, Kap, come play for the Winnipeg Blue bombers, will ya

Anderson is a 35-year-old journeyman who was last seen watering his garden before taking a snap; so although I get where youre coming from, I have a hard time believing he is in better shape than the Kap. I could be wrong, but I dont see the fan base consisting of grown men who light themselves on fire and throw themselves on tables taking kindly to the quote traitor to American values. They are so dumb they would probably boo the guy.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Bruce Irvin cut by Raiders. Gruden's roster tear-down continues. Kind of surprised me, but I shouldn't have been. Limited skillset, limited role.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles...t-by-raiders-amid-jon-grudens-roster-teardown
Seattle might be interested in bringing him back with injuries to two DEs and losing Michael Kendricks to suspension for insider trading. I say MIGHT, but I would not bet on it.

I call absolute total BS on Irvin having a "limited skill set", in fact, I think the only reason the Raiders cut him is because they are tanking to get the #1 pick in the draft, and Gruden is arrogantly certain he can build a winner from the draft, a la Pete Carroll, and I commented on that just recently. Or he thinks somehow, some way, he can cut players and trade away picks for solid vets that fit a winning system he envisions.

When Mack was traded away that put Irvin in a position to under-perform, if not downright fail. Yes, he was somewhat drafted as an edge rusher, but he's developed well over the years into a solid LB/DE, and anyone who has seen him play knows he plays with hustle, can cover quite well at OLB, and is a solid tackler, but Gruden and DC Guenther never used him that way, they never tried to. They dumped Mack, and tossed him in Mack's position, with little support. Then played him less when it didn't work, instead of looking at what he was best at. Despite losing Mack, despite being thrust into that limited role, he was still the team's leader in sacks this season. According to Pro Football focus, his 11 forced fumbles since 2016 are tops in the league. His pass-rush grade was only slightly above average at 60.5 while his coverage grade was 81.3 and his run defense grade was 73.6. These are numbers of a very solid player, not Pro Bowl, but close. He was also listed at No. 85 on the NFL’s Top-100 List, and considering there are 32 teams in the NFL, that makes him one of the team's top 3 players.

The player the Raiders should have cut is Tahir Whitehead. PFF puts Whitehead’s run defense grade at 51.8 and his coverage grade a horrible 40.8. Never mind almost 100% of his targets being completed on him for seven touchdowns in eight games for a perfect passer rating of 158.3 by opposing QBs. Whitehead is giving up 17.6 yards per reception and had a completion of 71 yards thrown on him against the 49ers.

Compare that to just two TD’s and 7.1 yards per reception with a long of 22 yards Irvin gave up at OLB last year.

When told how bad Whitehead was doing, Gruden acted like he had no idea it was like that.

“Is that true? Is that your study,” Gruden smugly responded to the media.

No, this has nothing to do with limited skill sets, and everything to do with tanking, and Gruden arrogantly thinking he knows best and how to build a team from scratch. After all, Mark Davis gave him nearly a decade's worth of money to do so.

https://www.silverandblackpride.com/2018/11/3/18059752/raiders-cant-justify-cutting-bruce-irvin-with-tahir-whitehead-still-on-the-team

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Bruce Irvin cut by Raiders. Gruden's roster tear-down continues. Kind of surprised me, but I shouldn't have been. Limited skillset, limited role.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles...t-by-raiders-amid-jon-grudens-roster-teardown
Seattle might be interested in bringing him back with injuries to two DEs and losing Michael Kendricks to suspension for insider trading. I say MIGHT, but I would not bet on it.

I call absolute total BS on Irvin having a "limited skill set", in fact, I think the only reason the Raiders cut him is because they are tanking to get the #1 pick in the draft, and Gruden is arrogantly certain he can build a winner from the draft, a la Pete Carroll, and I commented on that just recently. Or he thinks somehow, some way, he can cut players and trade away picks for solid vets that fit a winning system he envisions.

When Mack was traded away that put Irvin in a position to under-perform, if not downright fail. Yes, he was somewhat drafted as an edge rusher, but he's developed well over the years into a solid LB/DE, and anyone who has seen him play knows he plays with hustle, can cover quite well at OLB, and is a solid tackler, but Gruden and DC Guenther never used him that way, they never tried to. They dumped Mack, and tossed him in Mack's position, with little support. Then played him less when it didn't work, instead of looking at what he was best at. Despite losing Mack, despite being thrust into that limited role, he was still the team's leader in sacks this season. According to Pro Football focus, his 11 forced fumbles since 2016 are tops in the league. His pass-rush grade was only slightly above average at 60.5 while his coverage grade was 81.3 and his run defense grade was 73.6. These are numbers of a very solid player, not Pro Bowl, but close. He was also listed at No. 85 on the NFL’s Top-100 List, and considering there are 32 teams in the NFL, that makes him one of the team's top 3 players.

The player the Raiders should have cut is Tahir Whitehead. PFF puts Whitehead’s run defense grade at 51.8 and his coverage grade a horrible 40.8. Never mind almost 100% of his targets being completed on him for seven touchdowns in eight games for a perfect passer rating of 158.3 by opposing QBs. Whitehead is giving up 17.6 yards per reception and had a completion of 71 yards thrown on him against the 49ers.

Compare that to just two TD’s and 7.1 yards per reception with a long of 22 yards Irvin gave up at OLB last year.

When told how bad Whitehead was doing, Gruden acted like he had no idea it was like that.

“Is that true? Is that your study,” Gruden smugly responded to the media.

No, this has nothing to do with limited skill sets, and everything to do with tanking, and Gruden arrogantly thinking he knows best and how to build a team from scratch. After all, Mark Davis gave him nearly a decade's worth of money to do so.

https://www.silverandblackpride.com/2018/11/3/18059752/raiders-cant-justify-cutting-bruce-irvin-with-tahir-whitehead-still-on-the-team

Well, you may be very, as in 100%, correct about Irvin's release being all about tanking. Knowing you are a big Raider fan, and one with what I'd say is a high standard when it comes to right or wrong in these kind of things, I really get the frustration. But let me clarify.

When Bruce Irvin was with Seattle I watched a lot of him, and he was a solid DE in pass rush, against the run setting the edge, and as a tackler. But most of the time passing offenses would attack Bruce's area with a high success rate. So, I disagree he was an all-around solid LB. DE, yes. LB, no. Purely for the reason he was a liability in pass protection. So much so that I was not unhappy Seattle did not extend his contract and instead let him go in free agency. That is why I agree with the article that Bruce had a limited skillset. But I'm not saying Bruce was a slouch at LB, just that he had some pass coverage liability that made his resigning to a bigger contract unwarranted.

Now, that said, Seattle letting Bruce go was not all about his inadequacy as a LB. It probably had a lot to do with Seattle needing to resign (if not immediately, but looming) players like Earl Thomas, Richard Sherman, KJ Wright, Cam Chancellor, Mike Bennett, Cliff Avril, and OFC Russ Wilson (not certain of exact dates on all those). Point is, Bruce was not in that kind of company, not elite, and not the player you'd resign when you have those other contracts to deal with.

If Irvin were really that valuable Seattle would be calling because Seattle has a need at LB and DE. Plus Irvin is not only familiar with Seattle, but Seattle's current DC (Ken Norton) was his LB coach when he was in Seattle and his DC in his initial time with Oakland. So Norton and Seattle know Irvin very well.

But I agree this overall roster tear-down by Gruden wreaks of tanking. My question is, what position group would Gruden be tanking for? QB? With Carr on the roster? This is a lousy QB crop coming up from what I've heard, though I'm not really paying much attention to that. I'm not even sure Gruden is thinking that far ahead.

 

[the delgados]

I know the Buffalo Bills get frowned upon, but their vaunted defense only gave up 28 points in the second quarter of today s game against the Bears.
And don't tell me the team is comprised of quitters. They got a field goal in the fourth quarter.
Go Bills!

 

[Koronin]

I know the Buffalo Bills get frowned upon, but their vaunted defense only gave up 28 points in the second quarter of today s game against the Bears.
And don't tell me the team is comprised of quitters. They got a field goal in the fourth quarter.
Go Bills!

The only thing I'll say about the Bills right now is that they are a disaster.

 

[Unchained]

Don't know if this stat is kept but I am guessing the Chargers hold the record for losing or winning the most games w a minute or less to play!!!

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

Don't know if this stat is kept but I am guessing the Chargers hold the record for losing or winning the most games w a minute or less to play!!!

Yes they make a habit of it. 49ers have also had their fair share of those games.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

When Bruce Irvin was with Seattle I watched a lot of him...

Your evaluation of Irvin has me wonder, couldn't you say of 95 out of 100 players in the NFL that they have "limited ability"? My argument primarily is that they verbally trashed him, but their argument is bogus when Whitehead is a far inferior player by any numbers, and I posted them. FWIW, Irvin cleared waivers. Meaning the Raiders not only have to pay his $3.7m salary, but Bruce will likely be more flexible to sign with whatever team he wishes and worry less about the money this year. Word is Cincinnati and the Chargers are going to give him a look. My point here is this, the Raiders got NOTHING out of waiving him, but they DO have to pay $3.7m for doing so. Brilliant move by Gruden.

But I agree this overall roster tear-down by Gruden wreaks of tanking. My question is, what position group would Gruden be tanking for? QB? With Carr on the roster? This is a lousy QB crop coming up from what I've heard, though I'm not really paying much attention to that. I'm not even sure Gruden is thinking that far ahead.

Either to trade away the #1 pick for more picks or vets he likes, or long term top draft picks (as the team will likely stink in 2019 and probably 2020 as well). But even if it's not tanking, it's really bad managing by Gruden, and likely McKenzie and Mark Davis as well. Really bad.

What the Raiders need are linebackers, DE, a safety, depth in the secondary on defense. Then they need depth on the OL, and wide receivers. They had some of these players, but Gruden either traded or cut them. Why? See the above.

There are still a few delusional Raiders fans who point to what Pete Carroll did in Seattle, or Jimmy Johnson did when he traded away Hershall Walker, or think Gruden's QB camp on ESPN shows he is a great evaluator of college talent. But I'll argue what I did before, Gruden has NO history in doing developing and working with young players and turning such a team into a winner. His winning ways in the past were built entirely with vets. It was this way in Oakland with players like Rich Gannon, Jerry Rice, Tim Brown, Charles Woodson. And it was his inheriting Tony Dungee's team of vets in Tampa that won the Super Bowl the next year.

Gruden may eventually turn things around, but right now his coaching is an embarrassment to the organization. Mark Davis got giddy when his old friend gave whispers he wanted back in the NFL. So Davis overreacted, fired Jack Del Rio, who bled black and silver, having been born in the area, and took them to the playoffs two years ago, and despite having a weak DL, poor secondary, and a hurt QB still lead the team to 6 wins last year - disappointing but not a disaster. Then Davis blindly went after Gruden, barely even passing the Rooney rule before signing him.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Your evaluation of Irvin has me wonder, couldn't you say of 95 out of 100 players in the NFL that they have "limited ability"? My argument primarily is that they verbally trashed him, but their argument is bogus when Whitehead is a far inferior player by any numbers, and I posted them. FWIW, Irvin cleared waivers. Meaning the Raiders not only have to pay his $3.7m salary, but Bruce will likely be more flexible to sign with whatever team he wishes and worry less about the money this year. Word is Cincinnati and the Chargers are going to give him a look. My point here is this, the Raiders got NOTHING out of waiving him, but they DO have to pay $3.7m for doing so. Brilliant move by Gruden.

Yes. More like 100 out of 100. Every player has something to work on, even the great ones. Anyways, I agree with what you posted there. I was not looking at other players on their roster, like Whitehead, when I pretty much said Bruce has a limited skill set (which he does, even if he's still better than someone else on the roster). Bruce's waiver is a head-scratcher. Typically teams would want to keep their best talent. Bruce apparently signed with the Atlanta Falcons today (Nov. 7, 14 minutes ago) as an edge rusher. Any bets they do/don't use him as an OLB?