National Football League

[Nomad]

Mac Jones shows his noodle arm, and that he's not a starting NFL QB, like I suspected.

He doesn't have a noodle arm. He can throw a deep ball with the best of them. In fact, last year he made a casual 70 yd "dime" throw at a football youth clinic. The first sentence of the article states "So much for Mac Jones having a noodle arm." Lol.

WATCH: Mac Jones shows off arm strength with 70-yard dime throw

Is this the “noodle arm” people are talking about?

patriotswire.usatoday.com

Jones is another one of those perplexing situations where a stud QB playing in a Power 5 conference (in this case the SEC) struggles in the NFL. He was something else at Bama. There were games where he would put on a passing clinic. He was a consensus All-American. He won all three of the top QB awards in one single season; Johnny Unitas Golden Arm award, the Davey O'Brien award & the Manning award! And he holds the NCAA record for the highest career passing yard average. Saban said he was one of the best QBs he's ever seen.

WTH has gone wrong with Jones? Why is he having difficulty transitioning to the NFL game? Despite a pretty decent rookie season with NE, why was he traded & now a backup behind another struggling 1st rd QB?

Granted, there's been a problem with the stud Bama QBs in the last 5 yrs. Only Tua has shown some success though his future is uncertain with the concussions. And Young, the best QB to come out of Bama since Broadway Joe, needs to turn it around quickly if he's going to establish himself as a bonafide starter in this league (being a #1 OA, time is not on his side).

The next big gun out of Bama is Jalen Milroe. Projected as a top 10 OA pick & top 3 QB prospect, he's got a cannon of an arm, size, speed, agility & is the top dual-threat QB in the college ranks. He's being compared to Jalen Hurts. But will he survive or sink? Will he follow more of Tua's career path or one of Jones? We shall see.

 

[Nomad]

It's about time!

Cowboys will discuss starting Trey Lance this week

Trey Lance's long wait to get into a game for the Cowboys came to an end on Sunday.

www.nbcsports.com

 

[movingtarget]

Crazy game in Houston. So many turnovers. Last two kicks for the Lions just sneaked through.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

He doesn't have a noodle arm.

Did you watch the game? At least the highlights? He simply cannot throw the ball with any authority, or accuracy, at all downfield. At all. Oh, maybe he can heave it down there, if this was a heave the ball contest, but that's about it. Rex Ryan agreed last year:

Johnny Unitas Golden Arm award, the Davey O'Brien award & the Manning award! And he holds the NCAA record for the highest career passing yard average. Saban said he was one of the best QBs he's ever seen.

Those are great and all for college. But you sound like those scouts that look at a guy on a powerhouse college team shredding weak NCAA defenses, and assume the guy will do the same thing in the NFL. Then are baffled when they can't, and can't seem to comprehend the NCAA and NFL are not one small step from each other.

Again, if you didn't watch at least the highlights, you didn't see what I did. Jones doesn't have it. He'll never be more than a back-up in the NFL. I don't care what he did in college, or what clips you or anyone else can find of him throwing the ball.

Alabama has produced quite a few QBs who have won a heap of games, and gotten a heap of praise. Greg McElroy, Jake Coker, Blake Sims, Brodie Croyle, John Parker Wilson.

The next big gun out of Bama is Jalen Milroe.

I don't have as much faith in him as others do making it big in the NFL. I question how well he can read coverages and make quick decisions and quick throws on the money against NFL defenses. So sure, put a lot of hype on him.

Then again, I don't see any of the big name QBs in college coming to the NFL the way Daniels or CJ has. Ward maybe. Sanders seems like he'll bring a circus with him, or his dad will helicopter him to the NFL and coach whatever team he's on, though he has shown flashes of real talent. Beck makes too many mistakes between impressive throws. But when he's on, his accuracy deep has looked good, and he's resilient. Ewers had a terrific game this past weekend, but the competition wasn't so good, but he's looked resilient at times too. Nussmeier looked like he simply didn't have it, though I haven't seen him as much. I've barely seen highlights of Drew Allar, so I can't say too much on him either. These guys all seem like round 2-4 picks to me.

We'll of course know more after the season is over, and the Combine, and some of these players will shuffle around. But the only thing I will bet on is a few of them will be overdrafted, especially Sanders, who I see going #1 or #2 overall, likely with Ward, depending on who's picking. With all the potential for Sanders baggage and the circus that may follow, I think it's likely either the Raiders, or Browns overdraft him. Two historically inept teams with a long history of taking risky picks, risky decisions, where the owner intervenes, and the risk doesn't pay off, but collapses in their faces.

 

[BullsFan22]

The NFC West is a pick em’ at this point still. The Cardinals winning it would be funny though.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I like the way Arizona is as explosive as they are. They seem to be playing with real purpose as a cohesive unit. Would be fun to see them play the Lions. It could be like a video game.

 

[Nomad]

Did you watch the game? At least the highlights? He simply cannot throw the ball with any authority, or accuracy, at all downfield. At all. Oh, maybe he can heave it down there, if this was a heave the ball contest, but that's about it. Rex Ryan agreed last year:

Those are great and all for college. But you sound like those scouts that look at a guy on a powerhouse college team shredding weak NCAA defenses, and assume the guy will do the same thing in the NFL. Then are baffled when they can't, and can't seem to comprehend the NCAA and NFL are not one small step from each other.

Again, if you didn't watch at least the highlights, you didn't see what I did. Jones doesn't have it. He'll never be more than a back-up in the NFL. I don't care what he did in college, or what clips you or anyone else can find of him throwing the ball.

No, I didn't watch the game nor highlights. I accept your analysis on his throwing problems, and I did watch the Rex Ryan piece you linked. However, I think there's something not right here - he may have a lingering injury to his throwing shoulder/arm sustained last season:

Report: Patriots' Mac Jones had X-ray on shoulder/arm after Week 10 loss

Here’s the latest report on a potential shoulder/arm injury for Patriots QB Mac Jones.

www.google.com

Here's where things get interesting. The analysis from Chris Simms on Jones' pro day wasn't short of a positive impression on his arm talent. Granted, he doesn't have a Mahomes howitzer, but as Simms pointed out he made all the NFL throws with ease including a good deep ball (he wouldn't be drafted in the 1st round, let alone drafted at all, if he had a "weak arm" & couldn't make all the throws including a good deep ball).

View: https://youtu.be/Q79wFPI7DbM?si=UBDPHxIBh_zTvbOV

Secondly, we've lost sight of his impressive rookie season with NE where he lead them to a 10-7 record & WC playoff berth. If you look at the highlights of his rookie season, he made some beautiful throws & showed some serious arm talent - a far cry from the way he's throwing the ball now.

View: https://youtu.be/J7l1HNPtkWg?si=Bjb9K0ZU5Wp2B_xh

Furthermore, Jones was the best performing QB out of that 2021 draft class (Lawrence, Wilson, Lance & Fields). He was runner up to Ja'Marr Chase in the rookie of the year honors. He was named to the PFWA All-Rookie team & he was listed as Pro-Bowl alternate. I think you would even admit that Jones had an impressive rookie season with a lot of upside to his future. So, it could be this injury from last season that has changed his throwing mechanics. An injury that wasn't serious enough for surgery but hasn't heel 100% & is now chronic. Just an opinion based on the evidence of this injury last year & his poor throwing capability this season. And when you're dealing with any type of injury to the throwing shoulder/arm of an elite QB, it can affect throwing mechanics & functionality.

 

[movingtarget]

No, I didn't watch the game nor highlights. I accept your analysis on his throwing problems, and I did watch the Rex Ryan piece you linked. However, I think there's something not right here - he may have a lingering injury to his throwing shoulder/arm sustained last season:

Report: Patriots' Mac Jones had X-ray on shoulder/arm after Week 10 loss

Here’s the latest report on a potential shoulder/arm injury for Patriots QB Mac Jones.

www.google.com

Here's where things get interesting. The analysis from Chris Simms on Jones' pro day wasn't short of a positive impression on his arm talent. Granted, he doesn't have a Mahomes howitzer, but as Simms pointed out he made all the NFL throws with ease including a good deep ball (he wouldn't be drafted in the 1st round, let alone drafted at all, if he had a "weak arm" & couldn't make all the throws including a good deep ball).

View: https://youtu.be/Q79wFPI7DbM?si=UBDPHxIBh_zTvbOV

Secondly, we've lost sight of his impressive rookie season with NE where he lead them to a 10-7 record & WC playoff berth. If you look at the highlights of his rookie season, he made some beautiful throws & showed some serious arm talent - a far cry from the way he's throwing the ball now.

View: https://youtu.be/J7l1HNPtkWg?si=Bjb9K0ZU5Wp2B_xh

Furthermore, Jones was the best performing QB out of that 2021 draft class (Lawrence, Wilson, Lance & Fields). He was runner up to Ja'Marr Chase in the rookie of the year honors. He was named to the PFWA All-Rookie team & he was listed as Pro-Bowl alternate. I think you would even admit that Jones had an impressive rookie season with a lot of upside to his future. So, it could be this injury from last season that has changed his throwing mechanics. An injury that wasn't serious enough for surgery but hasn't heel 100% & is now chronic. Just an opinion based on the evidence of this injury last year & his poor throwing capability this season. And when you're dealing with any type of injury to the throwing shoulder/arm of an elite QB, it can affect throwing mechanics & functionality.

The 49ers were supposedly torn over which QB to select : Lance or Jones, but they opted for the bigger project pick with less college playing time but more athletic ability. Considering what Purdy has done so far with Shanahan and Greisie as the QB coach, it would have been interesting to see what they could have got out of Jones and there was also some talk of getting him as a back up before they signed Dobbs. Part of the problem with Lance's time at the 49ers was the injuries especially the ankle injury that kept him out for a season. I suppose the Cowboys will trot out Lance now but unless he shows something they won't be keeping him next season as his contract expires.

 

[Nomad]

That true, but they went with Lance because he was touted as the next "Patrick Mahomes." Lance had tremendous athleticism with a blend of size & speed not seen very often in a QB. And he had a Mahomes' cannon & could throw the snot out of the ball! But he had a very limited college career (nonetheless at a FCS school) with one great season where he threw for almost 3000 yds, 1100 rushing yds & not one interception. You're right - injuries, especially the major ankle injury, hampered his development.

I still think he can make it as franchise QB in this league. He needs playing time. Sitting the bench isn't going to do jacksh*t for his development (I know Alpe will criticize my comments saying Lance is a bust & there's no hope for him. Lol).

Trey Lance already getting Patrick Mahomes comparisons at 49ers training camp

San Francisco 49ers rookie quarterback Trey Lance is already receiving Patrick Mahomes comparisons at the team's training camp.

fansided.com

 

[Nomad]

Then again, I don't see any of the big name QBs in college coming to the NFL the way Daniels or CJ has. Ward maybe. Sanders seems like he'll bring a circus with him, or his dad will helicopter him to the NFL and coach whatever team he's on, though he has shown flashes of real talent. Beck makes too many mistakes between impressive throws. But when he's on, his accuracy deep has looked good, and he's resilient. Ewers had a terrific game this past weekend, but the competition wasn't so good, but he's looked resilient at times too. Nussmeier looked like he simply didn't have it, though I haven't seen him as much. I've barely seen highlights of Drew Allar, so I can't say too much on him either. These guys all seem like round 2-4 picks to me.

We'll of course know more after the season is over, and the Combine, and some of these players will shuffle around. But the only thing I will bet on is a few of them will be overdrafted, especially Sanders, who I see going #1 or #2 overall, likely with Ward, depending on who's picking. With all the potential for Sanders baggage and the circus that may follow, I think it's likely either the Raiders, or Browns overdraft him. Two historically inept teams with a long history of taking risky picks, risky decisions, where the owner intervenes, and the risk doesn't pay off, but collapses in their faces.

Keep in mind that it's depends what type of NCAA defenses these stud QBs are tearing up. The SEC produces the most NFL talent & is the closest thing you have to the MLB Triple A farm system. Some of these SEC defenses are very good. Recall back in the 2022 CFP semi-final game with Ohio St vs Georgia. CJ Stroud put on an aerial display shredding the #1 defense in the nation. In fact, I believe all 11 starters on that D were either drafted or signed onto NFL rosters/practice squads!

On Milroe, I'm not the one hyping him. The scouts are, hence, the comparison to "Jalen Hurts." The guy I'm impressed with is Jaxson Dart at Ole Miss. Have you seen this kid play? Man, he's something else - he'll be a top 3 QB pick in the next year's draft. (see my comments on the college football thread).

The bottom line with these stud 1st rd QBs not developing & struggling early on: That's solely on the QB coaches. These are highly paid positions that do nothing but work on developing the young talent. They don't get involved in game planning, scouting, etc - it's strictly coaching the QBs on the team. And so far, most of them haven't been doing a very good job in developing these rookies.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I remember when someone said JP Losman was "the next Dan Marino". How'd that turn out?

I stand by what I said about Mac Jones. If you think he's still got it, go ahead and put him on your fantasy team. LOL! Oh, and he was good in his rookie year because Josh McDaniels had him throwing maybe 2-3 passes per game longer than about 15 yards, and some of those were off target. Most of his throws were so short, where the receiver gained an extra 5-10 yards. So even before he was hurt, he wasn't throwing deep with any authority.

I still think Lance can make it as franchise QB in this league. He needs playing time. Sitting the bench isn't going to do jacksh*t for his development (I know Alpe will criticize my comments saying Lance is a bust & there's no hope for him. Lol).

He's a bust. There's no hope for him.

The Cowboys may play him some, but he'll be cut in the off-season because there is no way they are eating the last year of his rookie deal. Some team may pick him up the way Denver did with Zach. But at least in retrospect the worse the Jets look with Rodgers, the more apparent it is Wilson was definitely not the problem in NY.

Did you see Lance in the pre-season? After months of being on the Cowboys roster, all the off-season, OTAs, all the work with the QB coach, he finally gets his chance and throws five interceptions against 2nd, 3rd, 5th string players. The guy is in Nate Peterman territory. But hey, don't let me stop you from putting him as your back-up on your fantasy team to Mac Jones.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Nick Wright has constantly said Jones has a wet noodle for an arm as well.

 

[movingtarget]

Nick Wright has constantly said Jones has a wet noodle for an arm as well.

He has a low opinion of Purdy as well. He's always comparing him to great QB's of the past for for some reason and dumping on him. As a Chiefs homer, he's never had a high opinion of the 49ers,Purdy or Shanahan but for some reason he thought Lance could be good on another team ...........

 

[SHAD0W93]

He has a low opinion of Purdy as well. He's always comparing him to great QB's of the past for for some reason and dumping on him. As a Chiefs homer, he's never had a high opinion of the 49ers,Purdy or Shanahan but for some reason he thought Lance could be good on another team ...........

He had Caleb second on “Mahomes Mountain” last year. I’m just highlighting Rex isn’t the only one that’s said Jones has a noodle arm.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I think Nick also had the Bears going to either the NFC championship, or maybe the Super Bowl. I love listening to Nick in short spurts, but after a while, he's exactly as you say.

 

[Nomad]

I remember when someone said JP Losman was "the next Dan Marino". How'd that turn out?

I stand by what I said about Mac Jones. If you think he's still got it, go ahead and put him on your fantasy team. LOL! Oh, and he was good in his rookie year because Josh McDaniels had him throwing maybe 2-3 passes per game longer than about 15 yards, and some of those were off target. Most of his throws were so short, where the receiver gained an extra 5-10 yards. So even before he was hurt, he wasn't throwing deep with any authority.

He's a bust. There's no hope for him.

I don't play fantasy football - that's for the football zombies. Lol. There's always going to be comparisons made with 1st rounders & legends (nothing new there). Most never live up to the hype - how's the next "Peyton Manning" doing in Jacksonville? Lol

You seem to want undermine Jones' rookie season at NE. He finished 17th in the final QB index ranking - ahead of guys like Big Ben, Goff, Mayfield, D. Jones, Tua, Lawrence, Fields,

NFL QB Index: Ranking all 32 teams' primary starting quarterbacks at the end of the 2021 regular season

And this weak arm nonsense is got to stop. Did you watch the video I linked titled:"Mac Jones shows off arm strength at second in second pro day." Chris Simms gives his analysis stating that Jones has an "explosive arm" but not at the level of a "Mahomes, Wilson or even Fields" He says he made all the throws "effortlessly." And it's ludicrous to believe that a NFL prospect would be drafted in the 1st round - or any round for that fact - with a "noodle" arm. Lol.

View: https://youtu.be/Q79wFPI7DbM?si=2cSrc1ltsBK3pKoX

So, NE moves on from Jones & takes Maye. Are they doing any better with Maye? The team sucks at 3-7. Why aren't they doing better with Maye? They won 10 games & went to the playoffs with Jones in his rookie season. The Commanders are winning with Daniels & the Broncos with Nix. Maye is a 3rd OA pick - why isn't he doing at least as good as Nix?

 

[Nomad]

Nick Wright has constantly said Jones has a wet noodle for an arm as well.

Who's Nick Wright? I've never heard of the kid? Well, what I would say to Wright is does this look like a "noodle" arm throwing a 70 yd dime? (by comparison Allen can sling it threw the air, without pads, around 75-80 yds, and Mahomes around 80-83 yds).

WATCH: Mac Jones shows off arm strength with 70-yard dime throw

Is this the "noodle arm" people are talking about?

sports.yahoo.com

And here's Jones effortlessly slinging a bomb at his pro day:

View: https://youtube.com/shorts/K6hoLnYsjs8?si=yG1MvCaxWUIoqu5e

Jones was a 4-star recruit & #9 best QB prospect coming out of HS. He also made it on the Nike elite-11 team, which comprises of the top 11 HS QBs every season. These guys are studs - the best of the best that HS has to offer. They have a camp where they showcase their skills in front of recruiters. Jones had offers from top schools everywhere & it would be preposterous to think that Bama recruited a kid with a "noodle" arm. Lol.

In fact, all D-1 recruits need to have a very strong arm - especially with the deep ball. You can't have your QB underthrowing your speed guys when they break away from coverage on a deep route. The QB I played with on our HS state championship team back in the late 70s was a D-1 prospect. He could air it out about 55 yards with a nice, tight spiral. I was one of the speed guys on the team & he had no trouble throwing some bombs to me. "Noodle" arms just don't exist with D-1 recruits - that's plain BS.

 

[Nomad]

Did you see Lance in the pre-season? After months of being on the Cowboys roster, all the off-season, OTAs, all the work with the QB coach, he finally gets his chance and throws five interceptions against 2nd, 3rd, 5th string players. The guy is in Nate Peterman territory. But hey, don't let me stop you from putting him as your back-up on your fantasy team to Mac Jones.

Are you saying it's all over for Lance? Are you saying he hasn't responded well to QB rehab? Are you saying there's no hope for the next "Mahomes?" Oh well...he made some good money for his time spent in the league. Maybe he can go coach QBs at ND State?

 

[Nomad]

About-face: Colts turn back to Richardson at QB

The Colts are going back to Anthony Richardson as their starting quarterback, starting with the game Sunday against the Jets.

www.espn.com

So much for Flacco saving the day: 1-3 in 4 starts. The Colts are starting to lose ground to the Texans. They need to start winning & close the gap. This isn't a strong division this year. Let's see if they can get something going with AR this time around.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Who's Nick Wright? I've never heard of the kid? Well, what I would say to Wright is does this look like a "noodle" arm throwing a 70 yd dime? (by comparison Allen can sling it threw the air, without pads, around 75-80 yds, and Mahomes around 80-83 yds).

He’s been on First Things First since Cris Carter was there, long time media personality, and the biggest, most bias Chiefs and Mahomes fan.

The issue is those throws don’t occur in game or even practice. All the quarterbacks from start to third string can throw the ball without any pressure. Since the playoff loss to the Bills and his interception on the under thrown deep ball he’s regressed. Add in the drama of having two coaches that were special and defensive teams coaches in charge of your development.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Have you actually watched Jones play since 2021? Because it doesn't sound like it. He's pretty much terrible. I suppose if he had a huge pocket, the ability to take a few steps and heave the ball, he probably could still get it downfield. But just like Zach Wilson's magician throw at his pro day, that's now how football works. The Patriots did all they could after McDaniels left to help Jones, even bringing in Bill O'Brien to craft an offense specifically for him. Jones was still so bad they pulled Bailey Zappe back after cutting him, to be their starting QB. An argument could be made Jones was so incredibly bad, he managed to get Bill Belicheck fired.

Here's a new clip of First Things First, with Nick Wright talking about Mahomes. Definitely his favorite team and player (even if he won't flatly admit it).

 

[movingtarget]

About-face: Colts turn back to Richardson at QB

The Colts are going back to Anthony Richardson as their starting quarterback, starting with the game Sunday against the Jets.

www.espn.com

So much for Flacco saving the day: 1-3 in 4 starts. The Colts are starting to lose ground to the Texans. They need to start winning & close the gap. This isn't a strong division this year. Let's see if they can get something going with AR this time around.

Needless to say the Colts are benching Flacco again. He's had some terrible throws the past few games.

 

[Unchained]

I think Alpe should get a ten day ban for typing..JP Losman..and to be fair because I mentioned Ryan Leaf reprimand in order!!! Names that should be stricken from football lore..

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I think Alpe should get a ten day ban for typing..JP Losman..and to be fair because I mentioned Ryan Leaf reprimand in order!!! Names that should be stricken from football lore..

I'm old enough to remember the hype on JP "the next Dan Marino" (or "next Jim Kelly"?) Losman. How he was drafted in the same class as Eli, Rivers and Big Ben, the Bills trading up to get him. How the Bills released Bledsoe to make way for him. Then how Kelly Holcomb outplayed him, but Buffalo was so bent on JP being their guy, they benched Holcomb. This went back and forth, the Bills saying they were happy with JP (despite losses, and mediocre numbers), and fans wanted Holcomb back, plus he moved better with their porous OL, so Buffalo solved that and just cut Holcomb. Well, that didn't work out, so they drafted Trent Edwards and played hopscotch between him and Losman who was finally improving, with rumors Ralph Wilson Jr. ordered Losman to be benched anyway so he couldn't achieve his performance bonus, pissing off the rest of the team. What a cluster of a org the Bills were in those days. As bad as JP was, you kind of have to feel for the guy. Set up to fail. And fail he did.

Apparently he was I think at a Pro Day or Combine a few years back, throwing dimes to receivers seeking to get drafted. Well, a scout recognized JP, and approached him about making a comeback (at like 38) and he just laughed.

 

[Nomad]

But just like Zach Wilson's magician throw at his pro day, that's now how football works.

Let's not forget the throw that was heard around the world. An absolute alien throw!

 

View: https://youtube.com/shorts/hRHnF5ULFvQ?si=eA8sgblBswvN87Ds

And look at the monster throws that put Levis on the radar! (I think he's spent some time in weight room with a physique like that).

 

View: https://youtube.com/shorts/PrHwIYLGx0Y?si=myEXKIGpzPQ-OX3I

Even Murray has a big time arm! And what's remarkable about this is he's a 5'10" 205 lb guy that's built more like a RB than a QB (without height you usually don't have the leverage needed to crank out monster deep throws). Murray was the thee best dual-threat QB in the history of college game.

View: https://youtu.be/0fIkpmDNajg?si=JQLRD3AI4YKRKurF

And don't forget there was a lot of hype on Mahomes & Allen's monster arms:

View: https://youtu.be/hZdpR93uggw?si=ZWMnqmoRd3_iHeHp

View: https://youtu.be/YAc-yNX8MYk?si=BnBk6-B4HDoL8TR4

There's nothing new with this Alpe, the hype on arm strength & the ability to throw a monster bomb goes all the way back to John Elway's days.