National Football League

[movingtarget]

Regarding what was going on under the surface at the SNF game, first, how does Gronk finish the game with a punctured lung? Amazing! From both positive and negative side. As player freak on the + side, but brings up health/player concerns on the flip side. Also on the negative side, in hindsight, we now understand why Gronk did not get targeted as much by Pats play calling after that hit. After the hit, Gronk may have been out there more as a decoy.

And then for Seattle, how does a team with arguably the worst OL in the NFL all of a sudden become kind of good? My take is, Russell Wilson started to come out of it the previous week and really did vs Pats by the play calling. Before the Pats game, due to Wilson's lack of mobility, Seattle played more run to set up pass. But vs Pats SEattle played more pass to set up the run. In the future, look for more plays using Russ's mobility involving pass plays to set up the run. And I mean explosive plays. Roll outs, naked boot legs, moving the pocket, let alone scrambling. Seattle offense is about to become really dangerous. As Doug Baldwin said post-game regarding the Russ we are about to see, "unleashing the Dragon".

Do you think the Seahawks should have released Christine Michael ?

Yes. But they may be able to resign him to the practice squad if he clears waivers. Some teams that are possible suitors, like PIT, don't usually sign a player with his running style. PIT likes tough guys who dish out punishment, but CMIKE avoids contact, which is why I believe Seattle waived him with punishing Rawls returning. Even SEA's Procise is a tough runner for a lighter guy. With this waiver Seattle is being true to who they are. They'd like a runner in the mold of Lynch, and Rawls, Procise, and Alex Collins are more like that. Couple days ago I was certain Seattle would relegate CMIKE to 3rd string, so the waiver was a bit of a surprise but makes total sense based on what I just wrote here.

49ers could use him but I am sure they won't pick him up.

Besides Steelers, B/R reported the Bronocs, Packers, and Viks might be interested in Michael. Packers just signed him. Dude has plenty of potential, and hence was a former 2nd round pick.

Yeah I noticed that the Packers picked him up. Good one for them as they are having some offensive issues.

 

[movingtarget]

I think Rawls coming back from injury has a lot to do with the Hawks waving Michael. This is a dangerous team going forward. With Rawls coming back, Graham playing well, Wilson's movement looking better and better AND the defense getting reinforcement with Bennett, among other others coming back from injury. Beating the Pats, arguably the best team in the league at the moment, at Foxborough, with the Pats coming off a bye and the Hawks having a short week of recovery...this is big for them, even if it doesn't have huge playoff implications at the moment.

Yeah the Seahawks seem to be steadily improving. They are one of the teams that will give the Super Bowl a nudge this year.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Besides Rawls, Procise and Pope had much to do with letting Michael go. Procise is the real deal. Pro is a RB now, but was a former WR who knows how to run routes. Putting him in the slot will draw huge mismatches by defenses that try to cover him with a MLB, which happened vs Pats on SNF with great success. Who's Pope? When SEA let Michael go the brought the RB (Pope) up from their practice squadron!!! That tells you what their final opinion was of how Michael fit in their system.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

The NFL announced it's semi-finalists for Hall of Fame introductions, and once again no Raiders are on the list. No Tom Flores (despite four SB rings, one as a player, one as an assistant, and two as a HC, and one of the first players and coaches of Hispanic heritage), no Ken Stabler, no Cliff Branch (3 SB rings), no Jim Plunkett, no Todd Christensen, no Dave Dalby (3 SB rings), no Lester Hayes (2 rings, 5 time ProBowl), etc.

I mean, for God's sakes, Don Coryell made the list, but Tom Flores didn't?

 

[Tank Engine]

Re:

Now that they are 8-1, is anyone ready to give the Cowboys some credit?

Of course, you can say that they haven't had great opposition. However, to go 8-1 against any set of teams means you have to be doing something right.

The offence is packed with talent, most of it young or in its prime. In the next couple of years, the Cowboys will only really need to look for a new starting TE (although it will be a shame when Witten's career comes to an end). Taking into account that the Cowboys' greatest receiving threat has been injured for a lot of the season, but now seems to starting to click with Prescott, the offence is now a potent weapon.

The defence is stretched at the moment with a number of injuries leading to a 6-th round rookie facing up against a class receiver (Brown) in Pittsburgh. Generally, I feel at the moment the defence is a "good enough, bend but don't break" group. There are a couple of really decent players (e.g. Lee), but with such a talented, well balanced offence, I think the Cowboys can concentrate on building their defence and only need one or two impact defenders to become a Superbowl team (I'm still doubtful for this year though).

I am a Cowboys fan though.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

Now that they are 8-1, is anyone ready to give the Cowboys some credit?

Of course, you can say that they haven't had great opposition. However, to go 8-1 against any set of teams means you have to be doing something right.

The offence is packed with talent, most of it young or in its prime. In the next couple of years, the Cowboys will only really need to look for a new starting TE (although it will be a shame when Witten's career comes to an end). Taking into account that the Cowboys' greatest receiving threat has been injured for a lot of the season, but now seems to starting to click with Prescott, the offence is now a potent weapon.

The defence is stretched at the moment with a number of injuries leading to a 6-th round rookie facing up against a class receiver (Brown) in Pittsburgh. Generally, I feel at the moment the defence is a "good enough, bend but don't break" group. There are a couple of really decent players (e.g. Lee), but with such a talented, well balanced offence, I think the Cowboys can concentrate on building their defence and only need one or two impact defenders to become a Superbowl team (I'm still doubtful for this year though).

I am a Cowboys fan though.

i kind of agree. They have done really well especially the two rookies Prescott and Elliott but I think they might be a year or two away from the Super Bowl. But if they did make it this year it wouldn't surprise me.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Which Cowboy receiver is out? Did I miss something?

Here's the games I'm looking at this week:

Arizona@Minn - The team that wins this could reverse some struggles and think about the playoffs perhaps. The loser, may be out.
Tenn@Indy - Both teams are fighting for similar reasons. Both look great at times, mistake prone and vulnerable at others.
NO @ Car - Same thing, though Carolina may be done. Both teams have real problems, but also the ability to maybe beat anyone on any given Sunday.
GB @ Wash - Same thing. Winner can think playoff possibility, loser may be desperate. Though Pack in weak division.
Mia @ LA - The Rams are tossing in the towel on this season, one where many thought they'd win 9, maybe 10 games, and fight for the playoffs. It's Goff the rest of the way, to learn. Hope he can handle losing.
Philly @ Sea - Eagles just shut down the Falcons offense, and Seattle ripe after the squeaker over NE.
Bal @ Dal - Cowboys have a much better record. But Ravens have the top ranked rushing defense and will force Dak to beat them. Can he? If he can't, and Romo's ready by Thanksgiving...
Hou @ Oak - Battle of two first placed teams.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

Which Cowboy receiver is out? Did I miss something?

Here's the games I'm looking at this week:

Arizona@Minn - The team that wins this could reverse some struggles and think about the playoffs perhaps. The loser, may be out.
Tenn@Indy - Both teams are fighting for similar reasons. Both look great at times, mistake prone and vulnerable at others.
NO @ Car - Same thing, though Carolina may be done. Both teams have real problems, but also the ability to maybe beat anyone on any given Sunday.
GB @ Wash - Same thing. Winner can think playoff possibility, loser may be desperate. Though Pack in weak division.
Mia @ LA - The Rams are tossing in the towel on this season, one where many thought they'd win 9, maybe 10 games, and fight for the playoffs. It's Goff the rest of the way, to learn. Hope he can handle losing.
Philly @ Sea - Eagles just shut down the Falcons offense, and Seattle ripe after the squeaker over NE.
Bal @ Dal - Cowboys have a much better record. But Ravens have the top ranked rushing defense and will force Dak to beat them. Can he? If he can't, and Romo's ready by Thanksgiving...
Hou @ Oak - Battle of two first placed teams.

I didn't hear anything about one of the Cowboys receivers being out. One of their best receivers just came back from injury.

Saints have self destructed two games in a row. That could be their playoff chances done. Houston and Raiders should be a good one. Goff is supposed to be starting for the Rams this week. How long will Jeff Fisher survive as coach ? I hear that RG3 is back on the practice field for the Redskins. Eagles v Seahawks could be the game of the week. Cowboys should win but it may not be an easy win against the Ravens. I am starting to think that Minnesota are done even though the Cardinals did not play well that well against the 49ers but that was the 49ers best performance since week one. Cardinals to win. Green Bay are also close to the edge I think. The Steelers will get the points in what could be a close game.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Re: Re:

I didn't hear anything about one of the Cowboys receivers being out. One of their best receivers just came back from injury.

Saints have self destructed two games in a row. That could be their playoff chances done. Houston and Raiders should be a good one. Goff is supposed to be starting for the Rams this week. How long will Jeff Fisher survive as coach ? I hear that RG3 is back on the practice field for the Redskins. Eagles v Seahawks could be the game of the week. Cowboys should win but it may not be an easy win against the Ravens. I am starting to think that Minnesota are done even though the Cardinals did not play well that well against the 49ers but that was the 49ers best performance since week one. Cardinals to win. Green Bay are also close to the edge I think. The Steelers will get the points in what could be a close game.

I expect rough outing for Goff, but we'll see.

SEA vs PHIL: I have seen Seattle in cover-4, but except for goal-line / short yardage where many teams play cover-1, Seattle's base D with a healthy secondary is cover- 3 with Kam Chancellor down in the box. This against the Eagles is advantage Seattle. It will be interesting if eagles can put up any offense against that, but i don't expect much, in Seattle.

Seattle offensively is about to hit the gas pedal. Without looking up stats, my perception is Philly front-7 is better than the Pats. So the last Seattle game vs Pats might not be a good indicator of how well they will do vs Philadelphia. It will be interesting to see how Seattle deals with that. Will Seattle use Procise in the slot to create mismatches? If so, does Philly have a plan to cover that? If so, I expect big night for other Seattle receivers.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re: Re:

I didn't hear anything about one of the Cowboys receivers being out. One of their best receivers just came back from injury.

Saints have self destructed two games in a row. That could be their playoff chances done. Houston and Raiders should be a good one. Goff is supposed to be starting for the Rams this week. How long will Jeff Fisher survive as coach ? I hear that RG3 is back on the practice field for the Redskins. Eagles v Seahawks could be the game of the week. Cowboys should win but it may not be an easy win against the Ravens. I am starting to think that Minnesota are done even though the Cardinals did not play well that well against the 49ers but that was the 49ers best performance since week one. Cardinals to win. Green Bay are also close to the edge I think. The Steelers will get the points in what could be a close game.

I expect rough outing for Goff, but we'll see.

SEA vs PHIL: I have seen Seattle in cover-4, but except for goal-line / short yardage where many teams play cover-1, Seattle's base D with a healthy secondary is cover- 3 with Kam Chancellor down in the box. This against the Eagles is advantage Seattle. It will be interesting if eagles can put up any offense against that, but i don't expect much, in Seattle.

Seattle offensively is about to hit the gas pedal. Without looking up stats, my perception is Philly front-7 is better than the Pats. So the last Seattle game vs Pats might not be a good indicator of how well they will do vs Philadelphia. It will be interesting to see how Seattle deals with that. Will Seattle use Procise in the slot to create mismatches? If so, does Philly have a plan to cover that? If so, I expect big night for other Seattle receivers.

I won't go into the details of the match ups or potential match ups, but in general expect this to be a tough game. Yes it's played in Seattle, yes, the Seahawks are playing well and starting to click, yes Wilson's movement has improved, yes they are getting healthy bodies bad, yes they are probably motivated and pumped after beating the Patriots in Foxborough, BUT, this is a dangerous Eagles team that still has some playoff aspirations. The Cowboys will be too tough to catch now, but a wildcard is still on the cards for Philly, so I don't expect them to go away quietly. I expect a Seattle win, but it will be competitive. The Seattle defense and their competitiveness will always keep them in games, but if the offense goes up and down, they won't blow teams out like they should. If the offense is clicking...this team is arguably the best in the league. Interesting to see how they use Graham and if Wilson is 100% or very close to it, how they use him. He's arguably the best QB on the scramble/run and he's as good as anybody with making something out of nothing. How will the Eagles pressure him?

 

[Tank Engine]

Re: Re:

Which Cowboy receiver is out? Did I miss something?

I didn't hear anything about one of the Cowboys receivers being out. One of their best receivers just came back from injury.

Indeed I was talking about Dez Bryant, who recently came back after missing a month due to an injury. He was listed as questionable before the Steelers game, but played his best game of the season.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

I didn't hear anything about one of the Cowboys receivers being out. One of their best receivers just came back from injury.

Saints have self destructed two games in a row. That could be their playoff chances done. Houston and Raiders should be a good one. Goff is supposed to be starting for the Rams this week. How long will Jeff Fisher survive as coach ? I hear that RG3 is back on the practice field for the Redskins. Eagles v Seahawks could be the game of the week. Cowboys should win but it may not be an easy win against the Ravens. I am starting to think that Minnesota are done even though the Cardinals did not play well that well against the 49ers but that was the 49ers best performance since week one. Cardinals to win. Green Bay are also close to the edge I think. The Steelers will get the points in what could be a close game.

I expect rough outing for Goff, but we'll see.

SEA vs PHIL: I have seen Seattle in cover-4, but except for goal-line / short yardage where many teams play cover-1, Seattle's base D with a healthy secondary is cover- 3 with Kam Chancellor down in the box. This against the Eagles is advantage Seattle. It will be interesting if eagles can put up any offense against that, but i don't expect much, in Seattle.

Seattle offensively is about to hit the gas pedal. Without looking up stats, my perception is Philly front-7 is better than the Pats. So the last Seattle game vs Pats might not be a good indicator of how well they will do vs Philadelphia. It will be interesting to see how Seattle deals with that. Will Seattle use Procise in the slot to create mismatches? If so, does Philly have a plan to cover that? If so, I expect big night for other Seattle receivers.

I meant RG3 for the Browns !

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Since the Browns are a total mess in desperation mode, I wouldn't be surprise if they play RG3 as soon as they can, and he quickly gets hurt, again.

As to the Seattle OL, I hate to say this, but I almost expect them to regress to the mean, as Foxxy used to say. They played out of their skins last week against NE, and you don't just instantly "gel" in one game. They could have another good game, yes, but I don't think all of a sudden they've got it together, and with good coaching they are no longer one of the weaker OL's in the league. And Philly's front 7 will give them fits. Having said that, I still expect Seattle to win, at home. The main reason why is because I don't see Wentz moving their offense with any consistency.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Regarding Seattle's OL, Alpe, I both agree and disagree. I agree if just looking at the OL that:

and you don't just instantly "gel" in one game.

But one has to look at the whole offense, not just the OL. Several of my previous posts I talked about other components of the whole offense (pass to setup run in last game vs run to setup pass in first half of season, Wilson's mobility, Procise's use to create mismatches). ALL of those elements came into play against NE, and each helped the OL out. Hence they suddenly looked better. Then because Seattle will not regress in those other elements of the offense I don't think they will regress as a whole. Although PHI defense will be a tougher test for SEA offense, I still don't think SEA offense regresses. In fact, those other elements of the SEA offense are reasons why I said the Seattle offense is about to hit the gas pedal. How much did foxy really know about how the game is played anyway? But we'll see on Sunday.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Remember, the pick here is Seattle. I just don't see their offense putting up the same 31 points they did on NE. I certainly don't see Philly scoring 24 on them either. You never know though I guess.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

If you are for or against Seattle, it doesn't matter to me. But if against, use a good argument rather than quoting Foxxy's mean reasoning, which is meaningless. :lol:
But using Foxxy's "mean" reasoning, I can honestly say the mean for Seattle's first half of the season is well below the mean they are capable of (based on last year's 2nd half effort and this year's shackles). As for Seattle scoring 31 points, I make no prediction. But 31 against the Eagles defense, yes, would be more difficult than vs the Pats.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Be careful, I have the ability to bring him back from the dead! :twisted:

Like that's going to happen.

I'm just saying people are talking like all of a sudden the Seattle OL finally got it together, and now their offense will be vastly improved. The offensive line may be slowly improving, with a nice jump against NE, but they're going to get better on offense overall because Russell Wilson is likely at near 100% after a high ankle sprain reduced his mobility.

Games are won and lost in the trenches more than anywhere else, but Wilson is a special player. When healthy he can move with the pocket, and out of the pocket, better than any QB in the NFL, and maybe ever, going back to Fran Tarkenton. And like Fran, Wilson is not a scrambler like people often default to describing him, he beats you with his brains and his arm first.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Actually, can I lobby to bring him back???
I actually kind of liked the dude, and he kept it interesting. But I understand rules are rules (except in the political realm) that will be upheld, especially if he went nuclear on someone.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

No. He went for the nuclear option. He's done. If he could only post here, and only on football, that would be okay with me. But the rules don't work like that.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

26 points for Seattle is almost 31, considering Hauschka missed a mid-range field goal plus one missed PAT, so it shoulda been 30 points for. Giving credo to what Seattle WR Baldwin said Seattle "unleashing the dragon" (Russ Wilson) vs Pats and now vs Eagles, it was reported in the Sunday newspaper that after the Seattle loss to NO, on the flight home Wilson told HC Carroll that they have got to "stop calling conservative plays to protect me (from injury), otherwise we are going nowhere". Carroll agreed.

But something like 12 missed PATs yesterday, many doinking off the uprights? Back to school for the kickers, holders and snappers.

Rams and Cards put up fight but added to the "L" column. Same for SF. Goff did ok for Rams so maybe this works out for JFisher. Not surprised GB lost with all their injuries. (Go Lions). Cousins looked really good for Wash.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Yes, but against a terribly depleted defense.

Whole no one has been looking, Miami has run off 5 wins in a row. They are 6-4, with very close losses to Sea and NE.

For the second week in a row Brady had some floaters he threw downfield for NE. Is his arm going? Is he where PM was two years ago?

Dallas grinding it out over Baltimore was impressive. Zero distractions after Romo's emotional speech. But as good as Dallas is playing, I agree with Tony Dungee that the best team in the NFL right now is Seattle.

 

[Tank Engine]

Re:

Dallas grinding it out over Baltimore was impressive. Zero distractions after Romo's emotional speech. But as good as Dallas is playing, I agree with Tony Dungee that the best team in the NFL right now is Seattle.

It took a while for Dallas to warm up, but in the second half the offense was an unstoppable juggernaut. Best offense in the league - quite possibly. Best team - even I wouldn't claim that.

Was it really that windy in the states this weekend or did the kickers have collective brainfarts? I know the extra points are being kicked from a longer distance than a couple of years ago, but that was ridiculous.

p.s. regarding Foxxy. His rants on this thread were entertaining. You have to take this sport with a huge pinch of salt. If he appeared on the religious thread, I'd lie low for a while, despite (or maybe because of?) being officially being on the same side (I prefer the Socrates style of debate).

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

Yes, but against a terribly depleted defense.

Whole no one has been looking, Miami has run off 5 wins in a row. They are 6-4, with very close losses to Sea and NE.

For the second week in a row Brady had some floaters he threw downfield for NE. Is his arm going? Is he where PM was two years ago?

Dallas grinding it out over Baltimore was impressive. Zero distractions after Romo's emotional speech. But as good as Dallas is playing, I agree with Tony Dungee that the best team in the NFL right now is Seattle.

The 'only' issue(s) for Seattle now is/are injuries. A number of injuries yesterday. The good thing is that Wilson is close to his best and that's huge considering the OL is still inconsistent. If he's as mobile as he's capable of being, and his throwing keeps improving (he's been throwing rather well these last few games), then he's super dangerous. If he's well, he can beat teams in a number of different ways.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

Yes, but against a terribly depleted defense.

Whole no one has been looking, Miami has run off 5 wins in a row. They are 6-4, with very close losses to Sea and NE.

For the second week in a row Brady had some floaters he threw downfield for NE. Is his arm going? Is he where PM was two years ago?

Dallas grinding it out over Baltimore was impressive. Zero distractions after Romo's emotional speech. But as good as Dallas is playing, I agree with Tony Dungee that the best team in the NFL right now is Seattle.

Miami have sailed under the radar. Green Bay look done. Seattle and Cowboys are looking good and it will be be interesting to see if the Raiders run continues. For me the fact that the Cardinals and the Patriots took a long time to get over the 49ers convinces me that they both need to improve a lot. The Cardinals have been unconvincing all year, not much better than the Panthers really. The Patriots will still be there in the firing line at the end of the season but I have real doubts that they will win the SB.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

I'll give you that about depleted defense. But every team is dealing with injuries. And across the league there are so many it has me wondering if the offseason no contact rules might be partly responsible.

Raiders looking pretty good so far in Mexico City. Anyone know how much an average Joe ticket costs there?