National Football League

[on3m@n@rmy]

Seahawks doing well on offense....except when they get to the red zone, then they drop passes, make stupid mistakes, stupid penalties....Painful to watch. They should be up by two touchdowns now, not down with only 3 points on the board. Oh yeah, and more injuries.

Painful yes, but could have been worse. Seattle defensively earned their pay. Offensively, Seattle played well in spurts, but sputtered as you said. Jimmy Graham & Thomas Rawls had a case of the butterfingers hu! One drop by Jimmy was in the endzone, the other could have been a TD by good run after catch where he had space. Baldwin is playing like their MVP on offense. Wilson had pretty good stats and 127 rating, but many of his missed passes were off target. Still, I thought Wilson made some incredible throws, like the offense they ran right out of the gate and towards the end, lots of play action roll outs, quick throws, deep balls. The Seattle offense really wore down Giants defense, & Seattle's defense got so many 3 or 6 and outs their D was able to stay fresh. Seattle's offense owned a 10 minute time of possession advantage. Not making much of this tho since this is an awful Giants team.

As for injuries, Center Britt returned to play from his injury & was only out a couple of plays. Lockett got his bell rung and had to leave for a bit but he'll be okay. LT Matt Tobin spelled LT Ohdiambo & looked pretty good. LT is a position battle that could be developing. But continual injuries to RB CJ Prosice is getting old. He just is not able to stay healthy. After the season is over, not sure CJ will hold onto his roster spot.

Sucks for MIA's Cutler (cracked ribs) & AZ's Palmer (broken arm).

 

[Nomad]

Re:

49ers were pathetic against the Cowboys, the close games come to an end and maybe a few player contracts ! Palmer out with a broken arm in the Cardinals game.

And the Broncos were even more pathetic against the Chargers being shutout for first time since 1992! And with offensive non-performance in the last two games, I don’t think Elway is going to be a happy camper.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Re: Re:

49ers were pathetic against the Cowboys, the close games come to an end and maybe a few player contracts ! Palmer out with a broken arm in the Cardinals game.

And the Broncos were even more pathetic against the Chargers being shutout for first time since 1992! And with offensive non-performance in the last two games, I don’t think Elway is going to be a happy camper.

For Denver its easy to just point fingers at the offense because their defense is ranked #1 in the league (BUT in the yards/game category). However, the Broncos rank #9 in the league in points allowed per game at over 19 pts/game. Scoring offense is only about 15 and some change per game, so as a team opponents are outscoring them by about one FG/game. Contrast that defense with Seattle, who is ranked about #7-ish in yards allowed per game, but Seattle ranks #1 in the league in points allowed per game at around 15. It's a seemingly small thing, but defense for the Broncos also needs to step up just a little bit.

Offensively for the Broncos, just looking at numbers as I have not watched them so do not have a gut feel for them, so take this as just that, but Siemian's production has dropped off the last 2 games (1TD, 3INTs, ~72 rating). Compare that with his 1st four games (7 TDs, 4 INTs, 91 rating). Siemian has been sacked 22 time in 6 games (3.6/game), which would equal about 58 for the season at that rate. My guess is Siemian has been pressured far too much and is starting to take a toll on him, and defenses are figuring it out versus the Broncos a bit. Even Seattle's Russ Wilson, with that awful O-Line, has only been sacked 14 times in 6 games; Brady 18 times in 7 games. Broncos need to figure out how to take the pressure off Siemian.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

49ers were pathetic against the Cowboys, the close games come to an end and maybe a few player contracts ! Palmer out with a broken arm in the Cardinals game.

And the Broncos were even more pathetic against the Chargers being shutout for first time since 1992! And with offensive non-performance in the last two games, I don’t think Elway is going to be a happy camper.

You wonder what the Broncos will do at QB ? Re-signing Osweiler was a head scratcher and they tried to sign Kaep in 2016. I wonder if Kaep had taken the job and the pay cut would he have survived in the job ? I haven't seen enough of Simien to make a judgement. Would they have signed Romo if he hadn't retired ?

 

[blutto]

Elway has gotten a ton of credit for what he has done as Broncos general manager and he deserves it all. He’s one of the best GMs in the game, and he is the first all-time great quarterback to have this level of success in NFL coaching or management. But with some better drafts, the Broncos wouldn’t be in this offensive mess. The Broncos are struggling on offense, there’s a lot of blame to spread around and some of it has to land on Elway’s lap.

https://ca.yahoo.com/sports/news/nfl-power-rankings-blame-john-elway-broncos-offensive-woes-050035087.html

 

[Catwhoorg]

How can you be one of the best GMs in the game, but have significant weaknesses in your draft record ?

The draft is the #1 way you build your team.

 

[blutto]

Re:

How can you be one of the best GMs in the game, but have significant weaknesses in your draft record ?

The draft is the #1 way you build your team.

....there is also free agency and the trade route works good too eh....the SB team had a couple key guys acquired those ways....

 

[BullsFan22]

Dwight Freeney to the Seahawks. Schneider and Carroll still don't get it, do they? Ignoring the problems with the OL isn't going to make those problems disappear.

 

[Irondan]

Dwight Freeney to the Seahawks. Schneider and Carroll still don't get it, do they? Ignoring the problems with the OL isn't going to make those problems disappear.

Of course they "get it", but with Cliff Averil on the injured reserve they had to get some help on the DL too. Freeny can still play better than any available OL free agent not playing right now.

The Seahawks didn't have to give up any draft picks to get Freeny, he's a FA. I don't know how much they had to shell out to sign him but I don't think it was all that much since Freeny joined the Seahawks to be a part of a dominant defense that could take them to the Superbowl.

 

[Nomad]

Re: Re:

How can you be one of the best GMs in the game, but have significant weaknesses in your draft record ?

The draft is the #1 way you build your team.

....there is also free agency and the trade route works good too eh....the SB team had a couple key guys acquired those ways....

Yeah...one called Peyton Manning...who would have thought.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Re: Re:

How can you be one of the best GMs in the game, but have significant weaknesses in your draft record ?

The draft is the #1 way you build your team.

....there is also free agency and the trade route works good too eh....the SB team had a couple key guys acquired those ways....

FA & trades do have one advantage over the draft in that teams can see how the players perform in the NFL vs better talent. But experienced NFL analysts and former players agree with the catwhoorg that the draft is the number one way to build a team.

Now, recognizing talent in players is a special gift or skill that not all coaches, former players, or GMs are gifted with. If that is a skill Elway lacks, then maybe he has not done a good job of surrounding himself with some staff that are skilled in that area. Either that or management does not listen to them.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Dwight Freeney to the Seahawks. Schneider and Carroll still don't get it, do they? Ignoring the problems with the OL isn't going to make those problems disappear.

Of course they "get it", but with Cliff Averil on the injured reserve they had to get some help on the DL too. Freeny can still play better than any available OL free agent not playing right now.

The Seahawks didn't have to give up any draft picks to get Freeny, he's a FA. I don't know how much they had to shell out to sign him but I don't think it was all that much since Freeny joined the Seahawks to be a part of a dominant defense that could take them to the Superbowl.

I think that is a good answer to the BullsFan22 question. Also, the frustration expressed by BullsFan22's post is a common one amongst Seattle fans, partly because game after game Russ Wilson has to run for his life. Fortunately he can until he gets injured again, like he was last year. And that is the fear driving the frustration. Also, it's not too surprising Seattle has built a roster full of cap-consuming defensive studs, because head coach Pete Carroll is a defensive-minded coach.

So Seattle has sort of painted themselves into this corner limited by cap space and it will be interesting to see how they get out of it. On the offensive side, Seattle has to build from the inside out, starting with OL and not worrying about skill positions. They may have to make some tough trades (e.g. like stars Jimmy Graham or Sherman for a proven OLineman) before the October 31 trade deadline or in the offseason. I think what they are really hoping is that young 1st & 2nd-year players on the OL quickly develop so they don't have to make those trades. As a consequence, I don't expect them to make any trades for OL before the upcoming trade deadline.

At the moment though, there are not many good FA OLineman sitting on the couch without a team, like Freeney was. Two weeks ago Seattle brought Brandon Albert in for a workout/visit but nothing resulted from it. So it's not like Seattle is not looking at available OLinemen. In hindsight, good thing Seattle did not trade for the Browns star LT Joe Thomas, whose season ended by injury.

 

[jmdirt]

I would love it if SEA could get a solid OL trade for JG, but as on3 said, there aren't a bunch of OL hanging out waiting for a job (if they are looking for a job in Oct. there's a reason for that).

RE: building through the draft: The draft is equal parts art and luck. And even if you nail the art, you can have still have bad luck down the road (injury, drug issues, behavior issues (on and off field)... Plus, you can't 'build' a team through the draft, you can only (hope) to get key players (obviously you can build with the draft if you take several years, but no one is that patient in the NFL).

The NFL is suffering from paralysis by analysis (or some cliche like that). Everything from draft picks and trades to play calling is so over thought that it doesn't work as well as a simple, well executed plan would.

 

[BullsFan22]

Dwight Freeney to the Seahawks. Schneider and Carroll still don't get it, do they? Ignoring the problems with the OL isn't going to make those problems disappear.

Of course they "get it", but with Cliff Averil on the injured reserve they had to get some help on the DL too. Freeny can still play better than any available OL free agent not playing right now.

The Seahawks didn't have to give up any draft picks to get Freeny, he's a FA. I don't know how much they had to shell out to sign him but I don't think it was all that much since Freeny joined the Seahawks to be a part of a dominant defense that could take them to the Superbowl.

I think that is a good answer to the BullsFan22 question. Also, the frustration expressed by BullsFan22's post is a common one amongst Seattle fans, partly because game after game Russ Wilson has to run for his life. Fortunately he can until he gets injured again, like he was last year. And that is the fear driving the frustration. Also, it's not too surprising Seattle has built a roster full of cap-consuming defensive studs, because head coach Pete Carroll is a defensive-minded coach.

So Seattle has sort of painted themselves into this corner limited by cap space and it will be interesting to see how they get out of it. On the offensive side, Seattle has to build from the inside out, starting with OL and not worrying about skill positions. They may have to make some tough trades (e.g. like stars Jimmy Graham or Sherman for a proven OLineman) before the October 31 trade deadline or in the offseason. I think what they are really hoping is that young 1st & 2nd-year players on the OL quickly develop so they don't have to make those trades. As a consequence, I don't expect them to make any trades for OL before the upcoming trade deadline.

At the moment though, there are not many good FA OLineman sitting on the couch without a team, like Freeney was. Two weeks ago Seattle brought Brandon Albert in for a workout/visit but nothing resulted from it. So it's not like Seattle is not looking at available OLinemen. In hindsight, good thing Seattle did not trade for the Browns star LT Joe Thomas, whose season ended by injury.

Well put, but Russell Wilson and the ever dangerous defense can only carry the Seahawks so far. I think the offense has underperformed. Even without a good OL, they still should be doing much better than they have been. They have solid players that can make things happen. Obviously I am no expert, but to me they haven't played to their potential.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Dwight Freeney to the Seahawks. Schneider and Carroll still don't get it, do they? Ignoring the problems with the OL isn't going to make those problems disappear.

Of course they "get it", but with Cliff Averil on the injured reserve they had to get some help on the DL too. Freeny can still play better than any available OL free agent not playing right now.

The Seahawks didn't have to give up any draft picks to get Freeny, he's a FA. I don't know how much they had to shell out to sign him but I don't think it was all that much since Freeny joined the Seahawks to be a part of a dominant defense that could take them to the Superbowl.

I think that is a good answer to the BullsFan22 question. Also, the frustration expressed by BullsFan22's post is a common one amongst Seattle fans, partly because game after game Russ Wilson has to run for his life. Fortunately he can until he gets injured again, like he was last year. And that is the fear driving the frustration. Also, it's not too surprising Seattle has built a roster full of cap-consuming defensive studs, because head coach Pete Carroll is a defensive-minded coach.

So Seattle has sort of painted themselves into this corner limited by cap space and it will be interesting to see how they get out of it. On the offensive side, Seattle has to build from the inside out, starting with OL and not worrying about skill positions. They may have to make some tough trades (e.g. like stars Jimmy Graham or Sherman for a proven OLineman) before the October 31 trade deadline or in the offseason. I think what they are really hoping is that young 1st & 2nd-year players on the OL quickly develop so they don't have to make those trades. As a consequence, I don't expect them to make any trades for OL before the upcoming trade deadline.

At the moment though, there are not many good FA OLineman sitting on the couch without a team, like Freeney was. Two weeks ago Seattle brought Brandon Albert in for a workout/visit but nothing resulted from it. So it's not like Seattle is not looking at available OLinemen. In hindsight, good thing Seattle did not trade for the Browns star LT Joe Thomas, whose season ended by injury.

Well put, but Russell Wilson and the ever dangerous defense can only carry the Seahawks so far. I think the offense has underperformed. Even without a good OL, they still should be doing much better than they have been. They have solid players that can make things happen. Obviously I am no expert, but to me they haven't played to their potential.

Good points. Totally agree on the first point. Partially disagree on the second point, for the basic reason that no matter how much talent on offense they have, the fact still remains that the battle in the trenches determines just how well the whole offense runs. Their OL stinks, which prevents them from doing better (running game suffers, makes Wilson improvise, they have to hold RBs and TEs in to block/chip on the pass rushers which takes guys like Jimmy Graham out of the passing game). That said, I do agree the offense should do better because they have made a lot of mistakes (dropped passes - 2 last week that would have been TDs, penalties of all types, turnovers, Wilson's accuracy at times). Eliminate the mistakes, which is where I agree, and they should do better. Now, against weak teams like the Giants they look pretty good. But to beat really good teams with this OL they are going to have to play nearly perfect offense, mistake-free, and well executed. And they need to do that a full 60 minutes to keep the defense fresh. That's the challenge, and a tough one versus really good front 7 defenders.

Question is, can they meet the challenge. Though I don't like some of coach Cable's personnel selections, Cable is a pretty good, technically sound coach. He has been able, year after year, to get improvement out of the OL by mid-season even though he's working with limited or young inexperienced talent. Not sure it will be enough to go deep in the playoffs, IF they make the playoffs (I mean injuries can change a lot). Fortunately, Seattle has Wilson, who is an extremely consistent performer in all kinds of adversity and is a strong leader. Put a player like Newton on Seattle's roster and the end result would be worse because attitude and personality can change the way a team responds to adversity - IMO. Some may not agree with that.

 

[movingtarget]

Ravens blew out the Dolphins even with losing Flacco in the second quarter. Alonso's hit was borderline but Flacco's slide was late and awkward. As for the Miami QB I think Kaep could do better than him.

 

[The Hitch]

I think all of us Football fans born outside of Boston (and non glory hunters) are simply people who were very bad in a past life.

Nothing else can explain why the Patriots year after year, game after game have all the luck. No other team in any sport in the world can make their opponents do stuff like pick up a punt at the 10 yard line and run back into the endzone for a safety.

This is the same team that got Indianapolis to do the dumbest play in the history of sport a few years ago.

 

[BullsFan22]

Anyone catch the Seahawks Texans game?? What a back and forth epic! The Seahawks D was shredded by a quite a impressive rookie QB. I knew the Seahawks were going to play better as the game went on, but didn't expect to see them bleeding away so many yards and eventual points!! I also didn't see them scoring that many, even against a suspect Texas D, but this was a sort of a breath of fresh air. Yes the D wasn't good, but it was nice to see Wilson continue his good run of form and the massive yards he had, even against a mediocre at best defense. I was actually ready to think about the next game because I didn't think they'd come back in the last 90 seconds, but some very impressive footwork from Wilson and some fine catches from his receivers did the job. What a job it was! This was almost a carbon copy from two years ago, when the Seahawks beat the Steelers. Same high scoring style of play, lot's of deep passing and whoever had the last possession would win. This sort of game releases pressure from the offense, gives them confidence for the rest of the season and gives the defense a lot of motivation to improve starting next week against a Redskins team that's not played well the last couple games and has some injury problems. I expect the Seahawks to do well from here on out. I don't know how far they'll go, but I don't think they'll multiple games where they struggle. The games against the Rams and Eagles later in the season will be huge, in more ways than one.

 

[jmdirt]

Yes, SEA vs. Hou was entertaining. Hopefully SEA realizes now that they need to turn it lose to be good. Watson ate the LoB.

 

[Irondan]

Anyone catch the Seahawks Texans game?? What a back and forth epic! The Seahawks D was shredded by a quite a impressive rookie QB. I knew the Seahawks were going to play better as the game went on, but didn't expect to see them bleeding away so many yards and eventual points!! I also didn't see them scoring that many, even against a suspect Texas D, but this was a sort of a breath of fresh air. Yes the D wasn't good, but it was nice to see Wilson continue his good run of form and the massive yards he had, even against a mediocre at best defense. I was actually ready to think about the next game because I didn't think they'd come back in the last 90 seconds, but some very impressive footwork from Wilson and some fine catches from his receivers did the job. What a job it was! This was almost a carbon copy from two years ago, when the Seahawks beat the Steelers. Same high scoring style of play, lot's of deep passing and whoever had the last possession would win. This sort of game releases pressure from the offense, gives them confidence for the rest of the season and gives the defense a lot of motivation to improve starting next week against a Redskins team that's not played well the last couple games and has some injury problems. I expect the Seahawks to do well from here on out. I don't know how far they'll go, but I don't think they'll multiple games where they struggle. The games against the Rams and Eagles later in the season will be huge, in more ways than one.

I went to the game, which was the wildest NFL game I've ever been to. The last 5 minutes of the game had a playoff feel to it and I feel fortunate to get to see what should be one of the greats in Deshaun Watson. He was spectacular for a rookie to do what the best QB's in the last 15 years could not do to the Seahawks at home in front of that crowd! It was as loud as I've ever heard it during the regular season and the go-ahead touchdown pass to Graham sent the crowd into a frenzy that only the playoffs bring.

Very few people left the building when Houston took the lead late in the fourth quarter which in some degree helped the Hawks get the ball back on a 3rd and 4, a play that the Texans had been converting all day.

Very special day indeed!

 

[Tank Engine]

I think all of us Football fans born outside of Boston (and non glory hunters) are simply people who were very bad in a past life.

Nothing else can explain why the Patriots year after year, game after game have all the luck. No other team in any sport in the world can make their opponents do stuff like pick up a punt at the 10 yard line and run back into the endzone for a safety.

This is the same team that got Indianapolis to do the dumbest play in the history of sport a few years ago.

And then there was the Seahawks pass play on the goal line when Lynch was in full flow (although that was a hell of a play by the Patriots' CB.

I started following NFL when I was a teenager and for some reason picked to follow the teams that were 2nd in the Eastern divisions at the time. Primarily, the Cowboys. I could have picked worse, but I could have picked the other way round

 

[jmdirt]

I moved this to the Politics in Sports thread...

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Anyone catch the Seahawks Texans game?? What a back and forth epic! The Seahawks D was shredded by a quite a impressive rookie QB. I knew the Seahawks were going to play better as the game went on, but didn't expect to see them bleeding away so many yards and eventual points!! I also didn't see them scoring that many, even against a suspect Texas D, but this was a sort of a breath of fresh air. Yes the D wasn't good, but it was nice to see Wilson continue his good run of form and the massive yards he had, even against a mediocre at best defense. I was actually ready to think about the next game because I didn't think they'd come back in the last 90 seconds, but some very impressive footwork from Wilson and some fine catches from his receivers did the job. What a job it was! This was almost a carbon copy from two years ago, when the Seahawks beat the Steelers. Same high scoring style of play, lot's of deep passing and whoever had the last possession would win. This sort of game releases pressure from the offense, gives them confidence for the rest of the season and gives the defense a lot of motivation to improve starting next week against a Redskins team that's not played well the last couple games and has some injury problems. I expect the Seahawks to do well from here on out. I don't know how far they'll go, but I don't think they'll multiple games where they struggle. The games against the Rams and Eagles later in the season will be huge, in more ways than one.

I went to the game, which was the wildest NFL game I've ever been to. The last 5 minutes of the game had a playoff feel to it and I feel fortunate to get to see what should be one of the greats in Deshaun Watson. He was spectacular for a rookie to do what the best QB's in the last 15 years could not do to the Seahawks at home in front of that crowd! It was as loud as I've ever heard it during the regular season and the go-ahead touchdown pass to Graham sent the crowd into a frenzy that only the playoffs bring.

Very few people left the building when Houston took the lead late in the fourth quarter which in some degree helped the Hawks get the ball back on a 3rd and 4, a play that the Texans had been converting all day.

Very special day indeed!

Recorded then watched it. Maybe one of the funnest games I've watched on TV. The way Houston carved up the Seattle D, I was not confident Seattle would get the ball back inside the final 2 minutes. But once Seattle did get the ball back, I was very confident Russ Wilson would get it done. Holy catfish though, Deshone Watson is special - not a cannon for an arm, but more than adequate and does everything else really well, really poised, and causes problems for aggressive defenses that don't contain him.

As bad a day Seattle LT Rees Ohdiambo had trying to block Clowney (Rees just getting nothing but air at times), it is amazing Wilson had the pass offense working so well. Now, Seattle today traded for Texans 3x pro bowl LT Duane Brown (9-yr vet) in exchange for injured CB Jeremy Lane, a 2018 5th round pick, and 2019 2nd round pick. Brown should help solidfy the OL.

It was really timely & fortunate for Seattle that both WR Tyler Lockett & WR Paul Richardson both had really good games to go along with Jimmy Graham's contribution. Really liked OC Bevell's calls involving play action pass, including that 1st TD to Jimmy out of the jumbo set at the goal line.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Big trade of the day: Pats send QB Garoppolo to SF for 2nd round pick. So SF cuts Hoyer. Now NE has no backup QB. Who will the Pats sign? My guess is Hoyer, who played for Belichick from 2009-2011.

 

[movingtarget]

Big trade of the day: Pats send QB Garoppolo to SF for 2nd round pick. So SF cuts Hoyer. Now NE has no backup QB. Who will the Pats sign? My guess is Hoyer, who played for Belichick from 2009-2011.

Yep I think it would be reasonable to think Hoyer will return to the Patriots. Beathard will be able to let Jimmy know what it's like playing behind a non existent O Line after taking about ten sacks against the Eagles ! The woes continue for the 49ers O Line with Joe Staley out with a broken orbital, Trent Brown already on concussion protocol and now now safety Jimmy Ward has broken his arm. In a thin roster with a lot of rookies, each injury just compounds the problems for the team. And after their competitive start in the first six games of the season albeit without a win, the last two games have been blowouts but admittedly the hard half of their schedule is over. Probably bets being laid for which team wins first, the Browns or the 49ers !