Kansas probably were eliminated at the time most people expected them to be. Young QB and their defense all season probably made it so but while Mahomes had a good playoff series, their hit and miss defense cost them as did Kareem Hunt's brain explosion. With the final four teams not being far apart talent wise the Saints and Kansas will be bitterly disappointed. The Patriots game management and playoff experience were vital for them as they always are and they still have the best player/coach partnership in the NFL. The Eagles and Cowboys early exit was not a surprise . I thought Brees performance over the past two games was disappointing. Rams will have plenty of support from the fans and a Rams win would be huge as not many will be picking them to win. The Brady media hype is in full swing. I think many would be stunned if the Patriots lost.
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Re: Re:
You talking about the no call at 20-20 with 1.39 left in the game and Rams 1 time out?
NO first down there, lets them run down the first TO on first down.
1 min left on 2nd down,
25 seconds left on third down.
They kick the fg and Rams have 20 seconds and no TO's to go back down the field.
jmdirt said:
You talking about the no call at 20-20 with 1.39 left in the game and Rams 1 time out?
NO first down there, lets them run down the first TO on first down.
1 min left on 2nd down,
25 seconds left on third down.
They kick the fg and Rams have 20 seconds and no TO's to go back down the field.
Didn't see the Chiefs Pats game, but I see Brady got 2 INT's, 1 TD and 77 passer rating against one of the worst defenses in the league.
But Brady is the best cos his team won.
But Brady is the best cos his team won.
Re:
Now they are asking if the Patriots are the greatest dynasty ever in sports. Apparently they've never heard of the NY Yankees or Montreal Canadiens, both with over 20 championships each.
The Hitch said:
Now they are asking if the Patriots are the greatest dynasty ever in sports. Apparently they've never heard of the NY Yankees or Montreal Canadiens, both with over 20 championships each.
I sincerely hope that this is SB gets low ratings, possibly historically low ratings. More and more people hate the Pats and nobody cares about the Rams, even in LA.
Re: Re:
Moving forward, I think that a coach should be able to challenge every play, and I also think that NY should be able to buzz the stripes and say "you missed that call, so throw your flag even though its 10 seconds late", or "pick the flag up, it was his shoulder not his head."
Yep. If there is anything that I have learned, field goals under pressure are not a 100% guarantee. What if they make the call and then Lutz misses the chip shot? Granted he hit the 30 yarder after the Saints pittled the possession away. What if Lutz makes the field goal, and then the Rams score a TD on a long pass play? The 'what if' game is a rabbit hole.The Hitch said:
Moving forward, I think that a coach should be able to challenge every play, and I also think that NY should be able to buzz the stripes and say "you missed that call, so throw your flag even though its 10 seconds late", or "pick the flag up, it was his shoulder not his head."
Re: Re:
Yes maybe rams score a td with 20 seconds left even if they didn't when they had 1.40 and a to.
But the odds are very tiny. That happens almost never. No were screwed out of what would have been a 95% chance to win the game, with 20 seconds left. 98 once the fg hits. It would have been a closer less pressure fg than the one he hit.
That's precisely the situation saints found themselves in last year and lost. You think it happens again?
Payton coached poorly. How they didn't know rams were gonna fake the punt then, when they do it every game, is beyond me.
They should uhave run down the clock at the end of the game.
But even still they did enough to win. Refs really messed up so bad and I lost some of my own passion for the sport with another tragic ref call. Probably for the best
Mcvay is the second luckiest man in the sport. Behind Brady. Rams definately didn't do enough over the season and cc to be in the bowl
These are games of percentages.jmdirt said:
Yes maybe rams score a td with 20 seconds left even if they didn't when they had 1.40 and a to.
But the odds are very tiny. That happens almost never. No were screwed out of what would have been a 95% chance to win the game, with 20 seconds left. 98 once the fg hits. It would have been a closer less pressure fg than the one he hit.
That's precisely the situation saints found themselves in last year and lost. You think it happens again?
Payton coached poorly. How they didn't know rams were gonna fake the punt then, when they do it every game, is beyond me.
They should uhave run down the clock at the end of the game.
But even still they did enough to win. Refs really messed up so bad and I lost some of my own passion for the sport with another tragic ref call. Probably for the best
Mcvay is the second luckiest man in the sport. Behind Brady. Rams definately didn't do enough over the season and cc to be in the bowl
Re: Re:
Tbf what the oatriots have done is unreal. I can't take away from them best franchise ever.
What irks me is the narrative that Brady dominated for 20 years like lance did cycling. When plenty of years like this one he's not the best qb but makes the sb because of his team. This year he's not even top 5. But still makes the sb.
Hence the best qb. Apparently
Koronin said:
Tbf what the oatriots have done is unreal. I can't take away from them best franchise ever.
What irks me is the narrative that Brady dominated for 20 years like lance did cycling. When plenty of years like this one he's not the best qb but makes the sb because of his team. This year he's not even top 5. But still makes the sb.
Hence the best qb. Apparently
After watching the blatantly botched calls in both games (roughing the passer when a defender swiped his arm and barely made contact with the qb who had the ball in his hands; and the pass interference non-call) I could not help but think of the NBA referee who did time in jail for throwing games.
After his release from jail, he contends that matches are not fixed, but referees are strongly encouraged to pay more attention to some fouls and ignore others. If you are a referee trying to make a name, you are going to listen to orders.
What happened yesterday leads me to think the same rule applies in the NFL. I have no emotional or betting attachment to either team, but the Rams guy pretty much tackled the receiver well before the ball arrived. All of this was done well within sight of the ref. That is not normal
After his release from jail, he contends that matches are not fixed, but referees are strongly encouraged to pay more attention to some fouls and ignore others. If you are a referee trying to make a name, you are going to listen to orders.
What happened yesterday leads me to think the same rule applies in the NFL. I have no emotional or betting attachment to either team, but the Rams guy pretty much tackled the receiver well before the ball arrived. All of this was done well within sight of the ref. That is not normal
Re:
...but missed and bad calls are normal, its just that this time of year they have even greater implications so people care more and more people care.the delgados said:
Yes, the microscope is greater this time of year.
I agree that it's just a matter of time before ALL calls are subject to review, from a centralized location where a team of replay officials watch every play. Belicheck has called for this in the past, and there's no reason it can't be implemented. This particular play would have been a no-brainer though, which makes it worse.
Did you know that commissioner Roger Goodell has so much power, he could actually reverse the ruling of this game? Or actually make them play it over? True!
Rule 17, Section 2, Article 1:
"The Commissioner has the sole authority to investigate and take appropriate disciplinary and/or corrective measures if any club action, non-participant interference, or calamity occurs in an NFL game which the Commissioner deems so extraordinarily unfair or outside the accepted tactics encountered in professional football that such action has a major effect on the result of the game."
I don't know that the one play in question should be deemed "extraordinarily unfair" though. But food for thought, considering this rule exists, and yet they won't allow plays like this to be reviewed.
I agree that Sean Payton coached a bad game. Well, a questionable 4th quarter and OT. Recall that I stated the Rams were statistically one of the worst teams in the NFL against the run, especially outside, maybe the worst in the league, I can't recall right now. Well, the Saints only had Ingram run the ball 9 times, and Kamara for 8. Their average was not good, 2.3 total for the team, but the team overall had a 2:1 pass to run ratio, which is very surprising for a team so built on a dynamic running game. In the 4th quarter the Saints gave up on the run almost entirely. But they also gave up throwing any sort of short passes to the backs. Their fist drive was three passes out of the shotgun, nearly all of them over the middle, then a punt. Their next possession started nearly identical, three passes out of the shotgun, finally a run for a loss to Ingram, then the long pass by Brees to Ginn. With the ball at the 13 and the two minute warning, they again had Brees in shotgun and he threw an incomplete. They finally ran to Kamara for no gain, which was mostly a time killer and ball mover. Then, with 1:49 to play, the fateful play in question. When they got to OT, they had Brees throw four straight passes out of the shotgun, the 4th being intercepted. Granted, hindsight is always 20/20, and I'm guilty of being a Monday morning QB here for sure. Plus, they were not running the ball well, but why they gave up on the run, even the running backs entirely, almost is beyond comprehension. I know they have Drew Brees, I get that, but the decisions they made, decisions I was concerned and predicted they might, may have cost them the game as much as anything.
Agree with Brady's greatness. But I also agree they played well as a team, and have the best coach ever, which won this game as much as Brady. The reason why the Patriots dynasty is arguably greater than that of the Yankees or Canadians is because of the strict salary cap, and free agency in the NFL is far greater than those leagues ever were.
I should note that I'll be really surprised if the Patriots don't put up a more dynamic running game in the SB with White and Michel (even Develin and Burkhead), and throw the ball to White especially, maybe a lot. They did just that against the Chargers.
I agree that it's just a matter of time before ALL calls are subject to review, from a centralized location where a team of replay officials watch every play. Belicheck has called for this in the past, and there's no reason it can't be implemented. This particular play would have been a no-brainer though, which makes it worse.
Did you know that commissioner Roger Goodell has so much power, he could actually reverse the ruling of this game? Or actually make them play it over? True!
Rule 17, Section 2, Article 1:
"The Commissioner has the sole authority to investigate and take appropriate disciplinary and/or corrective measures if any club action, non-participant interference, or calamity occurs in an NFL game which the Commissioner deems so extraordinarily unfair or outside the accepted tactics encountered in professional football that such action has a major effect on the result of the game."
I don't know that the one play in question should be deemed "extraordinarily unfair" though. But food for thought, considering this rule exists, and yet they won't allow plays like this to be reviewed.
I agree that Sean Payton coached a bad game. Well, a questionable 4th quarter and OT. Recall that I stated the Rams were statistically one of the worst teams in the NFL against the run, especially outside, maybe the worst in the league, I can't recall right now. Well, the Saints only had Ingram run the ball 9 times, and Kamara for 8. Their average was not good, 2.3 total for the team, but the team overall had a 2:1 pass to run ratio, which is very surprising for a team so built on a dynamic running game. In the 4th quarter the Saints gave up on the run almost entirely. But they also gave up throwing any sort of short passes to the backs. Their fist drive was three passes out of the shotgun, nearly all of them over the middle, then a punt. Their next possession started nearly identical, three passes out of the shotgun, finally a run for a loss to Ingram, then the long pass by Brees to Ginn. With the ball at the 13 and the two minute warning, they again had Brees in shotgun and he threw an incomplete. They finally ran to Kamara for no gain, which was mostly a time killer and ball mover. Then, with 1:49 to play, the fateful play in question. When they got to OT, they had Brees throw four straight passes out of the shotgun, the 4th being intercepted. Granted, hindsight is always 20/20, and I'm guilty of being a Monday morning QB here for sure. Plus, they were not running the ball well, but why they gave up on the run, even the running backs entirely, almost is beyond comprehension. I know they have Drew Brees, I get that, but the decisions they made, decisions I was concerned and predicted they might, may have cost them the game as much as anything.
Agree with Brady's greatness. But I also agree they played well as a team, and have the best coach ever, which won this game as much as Brady. The reason why the Patriots dynasty is arguably greater than that of the Yankees or Canadians is because of the strict salary cap, and free agency in the NFL is far greater than those leagues ever were.
I should note that I'll be really surprised if the Patriots don't put up a more dynamic running game in the SB with White and Michel (even Develin and Burkhead), and throw the ball to White especially, maybe a lot. They did just that against the Chargers.
Re:
The stat line doesn't do Brady justice. He had complete control of the offense and was manipulating Chiefs defense like crazy. One of his int's was a bad play call that the defense was ready for in the red zone. While the other Edelman didn't catch the ball and it bounced off his hands into a defender. Just like half Brady's interceptions in the regular season coming off the receivers hands. Add that six of his incompletions were drops by the receivers hitting them in the hands.
No, Brady didn't post amazing numbers but he still played good this year through injury and receiver issues.
The Hitch said:
The stat line doesn't do Brady justice. He had complete control of the offense and was manipulating Chiefs defense like crazy. One of his int's was a bad play call that the defense was ready for in the red zone. While the other Edelman didn't catch the ball and it bounced off his hands into a defender. Just like half Brady's interceptions in the regular season coming off the receivers hands. Add that six of his incompletions were drops by the receivers hitting them in the hands.
No, Brady didn't post amazing numbers but he still played good this year through injury and receiver issues.
Re:
One of the talking heads (Boogish maybe) suggested that the comish should allow $15 mil extra cap space to NO to help them keep this team together for a shot at being in the title game again in 2020.Alpe d'Huez said:
Re: Re:
No they aren't. Not even close to what the Canadiens, Yankees, and Celtics are. In the NFL as for franchises over the decades Green Bay and Pittsburgh and maybe Dallas are better.
What the patriots have done in the last 2/3 decades is NOTHING compared to what the Montreal Canadiens of the 50's, 60's and 70's did.
The Hitch said:
No they aren't. Not even close to what the Canadiens, Yankees, and Celtics are. In the NFL as for franchises over the decades Green Bay and Pittsburgh and maybe Dallas are better.
What the patriots have done in the last 2/3 decades is NOTHING compared to what the Montreal Canadiens of the 50's, 60's and 70's did.
Re:
I don't buy into a lot of what Rob Parker says about a multitude of topics (in this case, fueling or cashing in on SB hype week), and I do think it is WAY overboard comparing him in the same light as Lance. I mean, Lance's level of evil in sport is on an entirely separate world. BUT, I do agree when he says "it is difficult for people to embrace the (Patriots) prickly pine of deceit and deception" (in spite of all the success they've had winning championships etc). Some of my own family feel exactly that way, whereas I tend to appreciate or respect the results. OTOH, I can understand how ppl feel the Pats character could be likened to Lance. Can't argue feelings, especially the wifey's.SHAD0W93 said:
Re:
bit of a qualifier on his experiences with this sort of thing...
Interesting comments by Whitworth on it...Alpe d'Huez said:
bit of a qualifier on his experiences with this sort of thing...
Re: Re:
How is it even possible to be this bitter? Jesus christ, it reeks. That you won't even acknowledge how insane it is to have 9 Super Bowl appearances in 18 years (during the salary cap era, mind) is so utterly ignorant. No other team has more than 8.
Koronin said:
How is it even possible to be this bitter? Jesus christ, it reeks. That you won't even acknowledge how insane it is to have 9 Super Bowl appearances in 18 years (during the salary cap era, mind) is so utterly ignorant. No other team has more than 8.
Re: Re:
I agree with Whitworth. As bad as the call was, and as bad as it hurt the Saints, one play does not make a game. As I noted before about Super Bowl XL where the Steelers beat the Seahawks and there were several calls that went against the Seahawks, some of them very obvious, so obvious the referee later admitted the calls changed the course of the game. Never the less, it's not like it came down to one play, one score, or one point, the Steelers won by a score of 21-10.Archibald said:
It's apples to oranges trying to compare the Pats to other leagues, especially from different eras. With a hard salary cap and free agency, the NFL is without question the most difficult, and most competitive league to consistently win in. The fact that Belicheck, Brady, the Kraft family, and numerous other key members and players have managed to do just that is just astounding. If people don't like the cheating I get that, but it's been pretty rare if you think about it. Now, if people are sick of them winning all the time, I get that, believe me. It gets old, boring even. But to try to deny their winning in this era is nothing short of one of the greatest sports dynasties in history, or compare Brady to Armstrong is irrationally absurd.infeXio said:
Re: Re:
I don't get tired of teams winning like the Pats, Warriors... or in cycling Sagan or now MVDP in 'cross because I appreciate and respect what it takes to get there and then stay there. I'd really love it if SEA could string together four or five Superbowls!
I loved watching the Lakers and Celtics (Bird and Magic) year after year.
I agree with most of what you typed. I wonder if the people who don't like the Pats for spygate and deflategate hate the Saints because of bountygate. IMO, bountygate is WAY worse.Alpe d'Huez said:
I don't get tired of teams winning like the Pats, Warriors... or in cycling Sagan or now MVDP in 'cross because I appreciate and respect what it takes to get there and then stay there. I'd really love it if SEA could string together four or five Superbowls!
I loved watching the Lakers and Celtics (Bird and Magic) year after year.
Just one more comment before shutting my yap on this subject.
The referee was standing a mere twenty feet away from the non pass interference call. His view was not blocked in any way whatsoever. Apparently only the best referees get to oversee games like the one we saw--i.e. semi s. super bowl, etc. The rest of them stay home. If the ref who missed that call is the cream of the crop, the league has a problem in terms of training refs.
I just read some more about the Donaghy case in which an NBA ref spent a year in jail for fixing matches. He admits to taking orders from league officials to sway the game; by that I mean he was given strict instructions to ignore fouls and create phantom fouls.
Funny thing is he now runs a gambling web site, and from what I have heard, he is a good guy to go to before placing a bet.
Just sayin..
The referee was standing a mere twenty feet away from the non pass interference call. His view was not blocked in any way whatsoever. Apparently only the best referees get to oversee games like the one we saw--i.e. semi s. super bowl, etc. The rest of them stay home. If the ref who missed that call is the cream of the crop, the league has a problem in terms of training refs.
I just read some more about the Donaghy case in which an NBA ref spent a year in jail for fixing matches. He admits to taking orders from league officials to sway the game; by that I mean he was given strict instructions to ignore fouls and create phantom fouls.
Funny thing is he now runs a gambling web site, and from what I have heard, he is a good guy to go to before placing a bet.
Just sayin..
Re: Re:
While the No-Call was a officiating mistake, I believe it would not hurt to make more plays like that reviewable in some way (either by challenge or review booth call) as long as it would not slow the game down.
As a result of the NE-KC outcome, I do not agree with those saying the league needs to change the OT rules so each team has equal opportunities to score a TD (which the Aint's did in that game and failed by not scoring on the first possession of OT). I mean, can you imagine the disadvantage the Pats would have had if the rules let the Chiefs get a possession in OT vs the Pats in the AFCC? The Pats had 94 snaps compared to the Chiefs 50-ish. That is an absurd number of snaps for most teams (even if some college teams that run up tempo no huddle approach 80-90 snaps/game). So IF KC was allowed to and scored a TD to tie the game again it gets down to KC simply outlasting the Pats, which would not necessarily end with the better team winning. I think the NFL's OT system is fair enough, and also ends the game more likely sooner than later, which helps prevent late game injuries. Some say "wait - the game today is all about offenses dominating defense - not fair to have a game won on a coin toss". Well, over recent years when rules favor offenses guess what percentage of teams that won the OT-opening coin toss won the game? 52%. That's it. The stats show that winning the coin toss to start OT does not significantly favor that team winning the game.
Good points all. Especially agree w/Whitworth's comments. And if the Aints want to get into missed calls, how about the no-face-mask call on Goff that ended up costing the Rams 4 points (they got the FG but not the TD), which may have lead to the game being over with a Rams victory at the end of regulation. SKOL Rams! (and I predicted NO to win the game. Whining S. Peyton gets what he deserves IMO haha, even if I would have preferred officials getting the call right.)jmdirt said:I agree with most of what you typed. I wonder if the people who don't like the Pats for spygate and deflategate hate the Saints because of bountygate. IMO, bountygate is WAY worse.Alpe d'Huez said:
I don't get tired of teams winning like the Pats, Warriors... or in cycling Sagan or now MVDP in 'cross because I appreciate and respect what it takes to get there and then stay there. I'd really love it if SEA could string together four or five Superbowls!
While the No-Call was a officiating mistake, I believe it would not hurt to make more plays like that reviewable in some way (either by challenge or review booth call) as long as it would not slow the game down.
As a result of the NE-KC outcome, I do not agree with those saying the league needs to change the OT rules so each team has equal opportunities to score a TD (which the Aint's did in that game and failed by not scoring on the first possession of OT). I mean, can you imagine the disadvantage the Pats would have had if the rules let the Chiefs get a possession in OT vs the Pats in the AFCC? The Pats had 94 snaps compared to the Chiefs 50-ish. That is an absurd number of snaps for most teams (even if some college teams that run up tempo no huddle approach 80-90 snaps/game). So IF KC was allowed to and scored a TD to tie the game again it gets down to KC simply outlasting the Pats, which would not necessarily end with the better team winning. I think the NFL's OT system is fair enough, and also ends the game more likely sooner than later, which helps prevent late game injuries. Some say "wait - the game today is all about offenses dominating defense - not fair to have a game won on a coin toss". Well, over recent years when rules favor offenses guess what percentage of teams that won the OT-opening coin toss won the game? 52%. That's it. The stats show that winning the coin toss to start OT does not significantly favor that team winning the game.
You may be right. There is another possibility. One of the problems that many fans complained about this season was that too many penalties were called. It is very possible, maybe even more likely, that the league, responding to fan complaints, TOLD the officials to just let the players play and not call too many penalties. I heard today a former player, sorry for not having a link to it, saying players in the NFL have to gauge the officials and adjust their play somewhat based on how much the officials let go, similar MLB batters having to adjust to the plate umpire's strike zone. I think consistency is better, but players are aware of the need to adjust to the situation (e.g. who is reffing games and what they call and don't call). But players have to figure that out as the game progresses. It's not like officials advertise how they will call a game.the delgados said:
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