National Football League

[jmdirt]

I've got to be past a dozen times just on here ranting about how STUPID the rule is that gives the ball to the other team if it fumbles out of the endzone! STUPID, STUPID, STUPID!!

KC moving on, but the big BUT is PM. Neither the hit nor the ground caused an impact so it must be a rotational concussion. At first, I thought that he got chocked out...I'm still not 100% sure that he wasn't.

If the TB D can play like that next week...

 

[SHAD0W93]

I've got to be past a dozen times just on here ranting about how STUPID the rule is that gives the ball to the other team if it fumbles out of the endzone! STUPID, STUPID, STUPID!!

KC moving on, but the big BUT is PM. Neither the hit nor the ground caused an impact so it must be a rotational concussion. At first, I thought that he got chocked out...I'm still not 100% sure that he wasn't.

If the TB D can play like that next week...

Not to mention helmet to helmet could have been called.

TB offense will have to play better as well but the Saints D matches with them well. The big difference is no turnovers.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Not to mention helmet to helmet could have been called.

TB offense will have to play better as well but the Saints D matches with them well. The big difference is no turnovers.

If that was Brees' last NFL game, what a terrible way to go out handing out so many turnovers. Retired or not, that game's going to leave a bad taste in his mouth. I kinda hope he doesn't retire so he can go out on a better note, but it may be his time.

 

[SHAD0W93]

If that was Brees' last NFL game, what a terrible way to go out handing out so many turnovers. Retired or not, that game's going to leave a bad taste in his mouth. I kinda hope he doesn't retire so he can go out on a better note, but it may be his time.

I don't know if he can. Is arm is getting worse and he keeps getting injured.

 

[jmdirt]

SEA O line was ranked 28 coming into the season (as per PFF).

"28. SEATTLE SEAHAWKS
The Seahawks have ranked among the worst offensive lines in the league over recent years, and last season was no different as they finished 27th in our final rankings.

Left tackle Duane Brown has brought some stability to the line since joining Seattle, as his 82.0 overall grade ranks 13th among offensive tackles since 2017. No other Seahawks offensive lineman graded above 63.2 during that time frame, which shows just how important Brown has been — he’s allowed pressure on just 4.6% of dropbacks, 11th-best among tackles over the last three seasons.

Veterans Brandon Shell and Cedric Ogbuehi will compete to take over from Germain Ifedi at right tackle. Shell has been better during over the last three seasons, grading at 64.9 overall — good for 47th among tackles — while Ogbuehi has only played 877 snaps over the last three years and graded at 58.0 overall.

At left guard, Mike Iupati is coming off the lowest grade of his career, at 60.3 overall, and his career is simply trending in the wrong direction. Iupati graded above 79.0 in five of the first six years of his career, but he’s been in the 60s during his last four seasons, which have also been riddled with injuries.

The other guard spot is wide open, with 2019 fourth-rounder Phil Haynes competing with rookie third-rounder Damien Lewis. Haynes played just 42 snaps as a rookie, while Lewis is likely the preferred option here as his power run-blocking style is coveted in Seattle. Former second-round pick Ethan Pocic adds depth, though he’s struggled through three years at guard after finishing his college career at center.

There will be competition at center after Justin Britt was released after six years with the team. Joey Hunt took over for 733 snaps last season, earning a 52.2 overall grade that ranked 35th among centers. B.J. Finney comes over from Pittsburgh, where he wasn’t much better last season, grading at 56.9 on 325 snaps, though his previous work was much better in a limited sample from 2016-18.

The Seahawks enter 2020 with plenty of question marks up front, and it will take unexpected development from multiple players to get them into the top half of the league."
____
But ended 2020 14th which shocked me because IMO they play like crap, and don't allow Russ time to get the ball down field to the weapons or give the run game very many lanes.

"14. SEATTLE SEAHAWKS
The Seahawks’ offensive line ranked 16th as a unit in pass-blocking grade this season. That may not appear all that impressive on the surface, but it’s the highest they’ve ranked in that area since Russell Wilson has been in Seattle.

That improvement is due in part to several members along the line taking steps toward the production Duane Brown has been able to put forth each year since joining the team in 2017.

Brown remains the leader of that group up front at 35 years old, fresh off his highest PFF grade (87.3) since 2011. He has been a model of consistency in pass protection over the years, with pass-blocking grades of 77.0 or higher in every season since 2011 on at least 400 pass-blocking snaps. The 2020 season was just another chapter in what has been an underrated career for the 2008 first-round pick."

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I've got to be past a dozen times just on here ranting about how STUPID the rule is that gives the ball to the other team if it fumbles out of the endzone!

This is a hard one. My personal thought would to just make the play a loss of down, similar to an incomplete pass, bringing the ball all the way back to the line of scrimmage. The other option would be to try to make the player down where he lost the ball, but that would require a review. The ruling is meant to prevent players from Pete Banazak type fumbles, but it also punishes effort. It sure may have cost the Browns the game though.

I agree the refs missed the helmet-to-helmet targeting call there. The replay was obvious. I think they were so focused on the fumble, if he crossed the plane, they weren't looking at the helmet to helmet.

If the TB D can play like that next week...

I'm not sure they can, when you look at the turnovers, and several of Brees throws. The game in Green Bay will likely be nothing like this, plus about 50+ degrees colder, with much more wind. Rodgers definitely still has plenty arm to throw in such conditions. Brady? Maybe, maybe not.

If that was Brees' last NFL game, what a terrible way to go out handing out so many turnovers. Retired or not, that game's going to leave a bad taste in his mouth. I kinda hope he doesn't retire so he can go out on a better note, but it may be his time.

I honestly do think that's it. The way he was waving to fans, blowing kisses to a few, and the way he turned and looked back into the stadium "one last time" before going into the locker room. I also don't see him improving, no matter what he does, but degrading. His arm strength isn't what it was, as evident in this game, and he was battered all to hell this year.

My initial picks next week are GB over TB, and I have to like Buffalo's chances against KC, as long as they don't get behind by more than about 10 early. The Bills looked as solid as they have all season in taking out Baltimore. Mahomes injury is apparently nerve related, more than a pure concussion. As you guys noted, he didn't really hit his head, but his head was wrenched around. The "good" news for KC is that most concussions take about a week to recover on average according to a quick google. And the Chiefs have until Sunday to determine if they'll actually play him. They can just leave him "questionable", even "doubtful" and keep the Bills guessing up until kickoff. Though I'm sure Buffalo will be expecting him to start and play every down.

 

[jmdirt]

This is a hard one. My personal thought would to just make the play a loss of down, similar to an incomplete pass, bringing the ball all the way back to the line of scrimmage. The other option would be to try to make the player down where he lost the ball, but that would require a review. The ruling is meant to prevent players from Pete Banazak type fumbles, but it also punishes effort. It sure may have cost the Browns the game though.

I agree the refs missed the helmet-to-helmet targeting call there. The replay was obvious. I think they were so focused on the fumble, if he crossed the plane, they weren't looking at the helmet to helmet.


I'm not sure they can, when you look at the turnovers, and several of Brees throws. The game in Green Bay will likely be nothing like this, plus about 50+ degrees colder, with much more wind. Rodgers definitely still has plenty arm to throw in such conditions. Brady? Maybe, maybe not.


I honestly do think that's it. The way he was waving to fans, blowing kisses to a few, and the way he turned and looked back into the stadium "one last time" before going into the locker room. I also don't see him improving, no matter what he does, but degrading. His arm strength isn't what it was, as evident in this game, and he was battered all to hell this year.

My initial picks next week are GB over TB, and I have to like Buffalo's chances against KC, as long as they don't get behind by more than about 10 early. The Bills looked as solid as they have all season in taking out Baltimore. Mahomes injury is apparently nerve related, more than a pure concussion. As you guys noted, he didn't really hit his head, but his head was wrenched around. The "good" news for KC is that most concussions take about a week to recover on average according to a quick google. And the Chiefs have until Sunday to determine if they'll actually play him. They can just leave him "questionable", even "doubtful" and keep the Bills guessing up until kickoff. Though I'm sure Buffalo will be expecting him to start and play every down.

DB's arm strength certainly isn't as good as it once was, but since coming back from his injury his ability to get the ball in quickly, or downfield was even more compromised. I agree, his departure from the stadium definitely seemed 'final'.

 

[movingtarget]

I don't know if he can. Is arm is getting worse and he keeps getting injured.

They rushed him back after multiple broken ribs and a punctured lung and he struggled badly in his first game back. Unfortunately in recent times he has a history of not showing up for big games . Think the problem with the Saints offense is that they rely too much on one or two players while Green Bay and the Chiefs have plenty of options at the moment it seems. But the Saints need to find a QB now if they don't rate their back ups so do the Bears and possibly the 49ers who have a QB who is injured every season while the other QBs in his division rarely miss a game. If the 49ers can't get Deebo Samuel, Kittle and Mostert along with Jimmy, on the field regularly they will struggle to make the playoffs again. Their defense managed to adjust mostly but the offense struggled with constant changes of QB and an offense that was always injured.

 

[movingtarget]

This is a hard one. My personal thought would to just make the play a loss of down, similar to an incomplete pass, bringing the ball all the way back to the line of scrimmage. The other option would be to try to make the player down where he lost the ball, but that would require a review. The ruling is meant to prevent players from Pete Banazak type fumbles, but it also punishes effort. It sure may have cost the Browns the game though.

I agree the refs missed the helmet-to-helmet targeting call there. The replay was obvious. I think they were so focused on the fumble, if he crossed the plane, they weren't looking at the helmet to helmet.


I'm not sure they can, when you look at the turnovers, and several of Brees throws. The game in Green Bay will likely be nothing like this, plus about 50+ degrees colder, with much more wind. Rodgers definitely still has plenty arm to throw in such conditions. Brady? Maybe, maybe not.


I honestly do think that's it. The way he was waving to fans, blowing kisses to a few, and the way he turned and looked back into the stadium "one last time" before going into the locker room. I also don't see him improving, no matter what he does, but degrading. His arm strength isn't what it was, as evident in this game, and he was battered all to hell this year.

My initial picks next week are GB over TB, and I have to like Buffalo's chances against KC, as long as they don't get behind by more than about 10 early. The Bills looked as solid as they have all season in taking out Baltimore. Mahomes injury is apparently nerve related, more than a pure concussion. As you guys noted, he didn't really hit his head, but his head was wrenched around. The "good" news for KC is that most concussions take about a week to recover on average according to a quick google. And the Chiefs have until Sunday to determine if they'll actually play him. They can just leave him "questionable", even "doubtful" and keep the Bills guessing up until kickoff. Though I'm sure Buffalo will be expecting him to start and play every down.

I'm starting to think that the the Chiefs are ripe for picking. They are still the team to beat but I think more beatable than last season. The Bills might have the best chance to do it but GB are looking good also. The Bucs have surprised me. I didn't see them going this far.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

I'm starting to think that the the Chiefs are ripe for picking. They are still the team to beat but I think more beatable than last season. The Bills might have the best chance to do it but GB are looking good also. The Bucs have surprised me. I didn't see them going this far.

Agree on the Chiefs. With the Bucs defense, I'm not too surprised actually.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

SEA O line was ranked 28 coming into the season (as per PFF).

"28. SEATTLE SEAHAWKS
The Seahawks have ranked among the worst offensive lines in the league over recent years, and last season was no different as they finished 27th in our final rankings.

Left tackle Duane Brown has brought some stability to the line since joining Seattle, as his 82.0 overall grade ranks 13th among offensive tackles since 2017. No other Seahawks offensive lineman graded above 63.2 during that time frame, which shows just how important Brown has been — he’s allowed pressure on just 4.6% of dropbacks, 11th-best among tackles over the last three seasons.

Veterans Brandon Shell and Cedric Ogbuehi will compete to take over from Germain Ifedi at right tackle. Shell has been better during over the last three seasons, grading at 64.9 overall — good for 47th among tackles — while Ogbuehi has only played 877 snaps over the last three years and graded at 58.0 overall.

At left guard, Mike Iupati is coming off the lowest grade of his career, at 60.3 overall, and his career is simply trending in the wrong direction. Iupati graded above 79.0 in five of the first six years of his career, but he’s been in the 60s during his last four seasons, which have also been riddled with injuries.

The other guard spot is wide open, with 2019 fourth-rounder Phil Haynes competing with rookie third-rounder Damien Lewis. Haynes played just 42 snaps as a rookie, while Lewis is likely the preferred option here as his power run-blocking style is coveted in Seattle. Former second-round pick Ethan Pocic adds depth, though he’s struggled through three years at guard after finishing his college career at center.

There will be competition at center after Justin Britt was released after six years with the team. Joey Hunt took over for 733 snaps last season, earning a 52.2 overall grade that ranked 35th among centers. B.J. Finney comes over from Pittsburgh, where he wasn’t much better last season, grading at 56.9 on 325 snaps, though his previous work was much better in a limited sample from 2016-18.

The Seahawks enter 2020 with plenty of question marks up front, and it will take unexpected development from multiple players to get them into the top half of the league."
____
But ended 2020 14th which shocked me because IMO they play like crap, and don't allow Russ time to get the ball down field to the weapons or give the run game very many lanes.

"14. SEATTLE SEAHAWKS
The Seahawks’ offensive line ranked 16th as a unit in pass-blocking grade this season. That may not appear all that impressive on the surface, but it’s the highest they’ve ranked in that area since Russell Wilson has been in Seattle.

That improvement is due in part to several members along the line taking steps toward the production Duane Brown has been able to put forth each year since joining the team in 2017.

Brown remains the leader of that group up front at 35 years old, fresh off his highest PFF grade (87.3) since 2011. He has been a model of consistency in pass protection over the years, with pass-blocking grades of 77.0 or higher in every season since 2011 on at least 400 pass-blocking snaps. The 2020 season was just another chapter in what has been an underrated career for the 2008 first-round pick."

I think their OL ranking higher than it appeared they should was the result of having key players healthy vs weaker opponents who they should have beat. At one point their OL ranked 7th! But their depth is not good, so with injuries and tougher opponents they really do look like crap. It doesn't help the chemistry or play when starters change week to week. Also, it's not saying much, but Iupati's backup (Simmons) I thought did better. As to development, I don't think the ones we hope for to develop have the talent and/or durability. Pocic might be one who could develop, and he's already improved a lot, but at this point I'd label him as "serviceable" and certainly not great. I agree they do have a lot of positions to get figured out, and Brown (while their best OLman) is getting older. So how much longer can he hold up? Then with so few high draft picks, how are they going to build the unit if guys don't develop? Their best hope might be to get an OC who can figure out how to best use the limited talent they have. But as to that, they are reportedly talking to ADAM GASE for the vacant OC job!!!

It really looks kind of bleak, and I'm not very optimistic.

 

[SHAD0W93]

TB's biggest thing was getting on page with the other and discipline. If I was TB I'd try getting to GB asap or turn the temperature way down in their building. I think the Bucs offense will come down to how well Brady, Gronk, and Brown perform in the passing game as they are the most used to the cold. The weather will play a huge part and a run game could dominate. Packers are finally in their home stadium for the conference game with underperforming elsewhere. I feel like the game will come down to who gets the ball last and with the way they get being by a turnover.

Bills need points on every drive with or without Mahomes to maintain pressure and a lead.

 

[movingtarget]

https://www.nfl.com/news/lions-dan-campbell-agree-to-terms-to-become-new-head-coach

https://www.nfl.com/news/philip-rivers-retiring-from-nfl-after-17-seasons-chargers-colts

https://www.nfl.com/news/jaguars-set-to-hire-trent-baalke-as-general-manager

Hope Baalke does a better job at the Jags than he did at the Niners !

 

[jmdirt]

Glazer is saying the same that I did about Mahomes, that he was chocked out not concussed. Obviously people saying it doesn't make it fact, but I watched the video again...

So the debate begins, will Rivers go into the HoF?

 

[Nomad]

I'm starting to think that the the Chiefs are ripe for picking. They are still the team to beat but I think more beatable than last season. The Bills might have the best chance to do it but GB are looking good also. The Bucs have surprised me. I didn't see them going this far.

The Chiefs are ripe for picking if they can't get Mahomes back in the saddle. It's midweek and still uncertainty if he'll be medically cleared to play.

No Mahomes = no chance of winning this game.

Chiefs coach Reid offers no hints about whether Mahomes can play vs. Bills

I can’t tell you an answer from a medical standpoint. I just don’t know,” Reid said.

www.google.com

 

[Oldermanish]

This is a hard one. My personal thought would to just make the play a loss of down, similar to an incomplete pass, bringing the ball all the way back to the line of scrimmage. The other option would be to try to make the player down where he lost the ball, but that would require a review. The ruling is meant to prevent players from Pete Banazak type fumbles, but it also punishes effort. It sure may have cost the Browns the game though.

I agree the refs missed the helmet-to-helmet targeting call there. The replay was obvious. I think they were so focused on the fumble, if he crossed the plane, they weren't looking at the helmet to helmet.


I'm not sure they can, when you look at the turnovers, and several of Brees throws. The game in Green Bay will likely be nothing like this, plus about 50+ degrees colder, with much more wind. Rodgers definitely still has plenty arm to throw in such conditions. Brady? Maybe, maybe not.


I honestly do think that's it. The way he was waving to fans, blowing kisses to a few, and the way he turned and looked back into the stadium "one last time" before going into the locker room. I also don't see him improving, no matter what he does, but degrading. His arm strength isn't what it was, as evident in this game, and he was battered all to hell this year.

My initial picks next week are GB over TB, and I have to like Buffalo's chances against KC, as long as they don't get behind by more than about 10 early. The Bills looked as solid as they have all season in taking out Baltimore. Mahomes injury is apparently nerve related, more than a pure concussion. As you guys noted, he didn't really hit his head, but his head was wrenched around. The "good" news for KC is that most concussions take about a week to recover on average according to a quick google. And the Chiefs have until Sunday to determine if they'll actually play him. They can just leave him "questionable", even "doubtful" and keep the Bills guessing up until kickoff. Though I'm sure Buffalo will be expecting him to start and play every down.

When Mahomes' teammates were trying to steady him on his feet you could tell by his eyes he was somewhere else. Gotta watch those neck impacts, for sure.

 

[movingtarget]

Glazer is saying the same that I did about Mahomes, that he was chocked out not concussed. Obviously people saying it doesn't make it fact, but I watched the video again...

So the debate begins, will Rivers go into the HoF?

No I disagree with that take. The front of his head hit the ground and twisted, his neck was in an awkward position which may have momentarily cut off the blood supply to his brain then he got up legless. I don't think the arm around his neck choked him out cause it wasn't there long enough.

I think Rivers eventually makes the HOF.

 

[jmdirt]

No I disagree with that take. The front of his head hit the ground and twisted, his neck was in an awkward position which may have momentarily cut off the blood supply to his brain then he got up legless. I don't think the arm around his neck choked him out cause it wasn't there long enough.

I think Rivers eventually makes the HOF.

I disagree on both: watch the video, his face mask never touched the ground, and with that amount of force you can be chocked out that quickly. I agree that his neck was in an awkward position and that is one of the reasons why in my original posts I indicated that if he does have a concussion it is of the rotational variety not from impact.

 

[movingtarget]

I disagree on both: watch the video, his face mask never touched the ground, and with that amount of force you can be chocked out that quickly. I agree that his neck was in an awkward position and that is one of the reasons why in my original posts I indicated that if he does have a concussion it is of the rotational variety not from impact.

I thought the top of his helmet hit the ground but I do agree on the rotational aspect, that would have been enough to stop the blood flow probably.

 

[jmdirt]

I thought the top of his helmet hit the ground but I do agree on the rotational aspect, that would have been enough to stop the blood flow probably.

What this video from :45

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhPL09fq90c

 

[movingtarget]

What this video from :45

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhPL09fq90c

Yeah it looks like his helmet hit the inside of the defender's arm, not the ground............didn't see that vision before.

 

[Eyeballs Out]

Looks like the sort of concussion you can have in a head-on car accident where it's caused by the sudden acceleration and then deceleration of the head rather than impact

 

[Nomad]

Redirect Notice

Unbelievable! - played through the season on a torn fascia in his foot and a torn rotator cuff to his throwing shoulder! Who says aging quarterbacks aren't tough.

Makes you wonder, though, how Brady seems to escape all these injuries that the long-time veteran QBs sustain year in and year out.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Hope Baalke does a better job at the Jags than he did at the Niners !

Baalke was a near disaster for SF, his ego larger than Candlestick Park. Since Urban Meyer was hired first, I have to think there must have been some sort of bond, on top of detailed conversations about power and decision making.

So the debate begins, will Rivers go into the HoF?

I'll toss out two names. Warren Moon, and Ken Anderson. The former is in the HOF, the latter not. Moon threw for crazy yards, often between the 10 yard lines, and time and again underperformed in big games, with a lousy playoff record. But what a highlight reel the guy has from a long career. Anderson helped change the game, had big stats (for his day), but never did well in the playoffs either (2-4, one SB loss). He's not in. Rivers sits somewhere in there.

Two other names I'll toss out. Ben Roethlesberger and Eli Manning. Do they belong? Both have inferior stats to Rivers, but both have 2 SB rings and played much better in the playoffs (Jim Plunkett has two rings as well, and isn't in the Hall).

Since we have some Seattle fans (followers) here, I noticed that Gus Bradley has been picked up as DC of the LV Raiders, and Dan Quinn took the DC job in Dallas. Two teams badly in need of defensive leadership and identity (Paul Gunther and especially Mike Nolan were hired as friends or favors returned, and both failed badly in their roles). These teams now have two very capable, highly experienced leaders with proven track records of winning.

I have to wonder how long Gruden will stay on as HC of the Raiders. He promised that if he couldn't get the job done, he wouldn't stick around. He was handed a decent roster, and has gone 19-29 in three years, barely improving over that time. His draft picks, an area he was supposedly an expert in (and I was critical of after their first draft), have been average, at best. The last two seasons started well, with the team fading badly down the stretch, making it appear as though Gruden cannot adapt. I'll contend now what I did at the time, firing Jack Del Rio (an Oakland native), who had done well coaching the Raiders, and only lost when Derek Carr got hurt, to hire Gruden was an emotional decision for Mark Davis, and one he'll eventually regret.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Redirect Notice

Unbelievable! - played through the season on a torn fascia in his foot and a torn rotator cuff to his throwing shoulder! Who says aging quarterbacks aren't tough.

Makes you wonder, though, how Brady seems to escape all these injuries that the long-time veteran QBs sustain year in and year out.

Very gutsy and admirable for Brees to fight through those in addition to his ribs and lung injury. I think this further shows that it's his time to hang them up.
There was at the end of one of the recent seasons that Gisele talked about how injured Brady was but I couldn't find the article. Then the last 4 seasons he has been dealing with injury but not that drastic. Health wise he absolutely takes care of himself more than the others and for a longer time. Who knows what is at the bottom of TB12 method with some thinking illegal substances to help maintain his body. I maintain this, I don't remember if it was a sack or hit, but he got taken down the first game of the season and I thought his leg would be broken the way it snapped back and bent.