National Football League

Page 487 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
No scheme can mask their poor O line paly.
Yes, Seattle def needs to upgrade LG & RT personnel. Plus, poor OL play by Seattle this year is partly a result of an unhealthy Iupati constantly moving in and out of the starting lineup. Same with Ogbuehe. With Ogbuehe, communication is probably going to be an issue. But Iupati needs to go because he's seriously limited athletically and cannot block in space. If defenses put a DT over his nose he can lock on and can be fine (exception, quick guys like Donald). The Giants made Iupati block LBs at the 2nd level, in space, and Iupati couldn't get a finger on them. And those LBs would make, or be in on, the tackles. So, as the Seattle OC, you see that but don't make any adjustments in blocking responsibilities or play calling??? Another example of bad scheme: 3rd down and long, and Seattle throws a 3-yard drag route to Hollister??? Some might say that's bad play calling or decision making. But Seattle does stuff like that all the time. At some point, Seattle coaches have to coach up the offense, if the defense does "this", we're going to counter with "that", and start taking what the defense gives, etc.
 
Reactions: jmdirt
Browns and Bills progress. Lamar gets his first playoff win. Ben very upset after the game, probably his swansong. Wouldn't be surprised if he and Rivers announced their retirement.
Good for Browns. Even after jumping to that 28 point lead, when the Steelers scored the Browns kept answering back with scores of their own. ,

PITs season reminds some of Seattle's, start the season great, then crash & burn. But at least Steelers ended the season still able to score points, unlike Seattle's!

Nice wins by Bills & Raves.

Won't surprise if Ben returns for more seasons. Rivers post game comments were very emotional, just as I'd expect for someone who really loves the game, a lot.
 
Reactions: jmdirt
Yes, Seattle def needs to upgrade LG & RT personnel. Plus, poor OL play by Seattle this year is partly a result of an unhealthy Iupati constantly moving in and out of the starting lineup. Same with Ogbuehe. With Ogbuehe, communication is probably going to be an issue. But Iupati needs to go because he's seriously limited athletically and cannot block in space. If defenses put a DT over his nose he can lock on and can be fine (exception, quick guys like Donald). The Giants made Iupati block LBs at the 2nd level, in space, and Iupati couldn't get a finger on them. And those LBs would make, or be in on, the tackles. So, as the Seattle OC, you see that but don't make any adjustments in blocking responsibilities or play calling??? Another example of bad scheme: 3rd down and long, and Seattle throws a 3-yard drag route to Hollister??? Some might say that's bad play calling or decision making. But Seattle does stuff like that all the time. At some point, Seattle coaches have to coach up the offense, if the defense does "this", we're going to counter with "that", and start taking what the defense gives, etc.
Is that dump off just because the clock in Russ's head is ticking too fast because he doesn't have time, or bad play calling?
 
Won't surprise if Ben returns for more seasons. Rivers post game comments were very emotional, just as I'd expect for someone who really loves the game, a lot.
I think he's done. He was terrible in the first half with 3 picks where the Browns capitalized on each one scoring touchdowns. He put the team in a deep hole that they couldn't recover from.

You can't have an aging HOF QB play that bad in your opening playoff game. This team was 12-4, division winners with a record setting season and they're one & done against a team they were favored over (it's not like he hasn't seen the playoffs before).

Someone has got to take the hit for this. The organization isn't going to fire Tomlin - he probably could stay there forever. Though Big Ben had a great season statistically leading the team to a division title, none of that matters when you're one & done in the playoffs because of very poor play by your veteran QB.

 
Last edited:
Yes, Seattle def needs to upgrade LG & RT personnel. Plus, poor OL play by Seattle this year is partly a result of an unhealthy Iupati constantly moving in and out of the starting lineup. Same with Ogbuehe. With Ogbuehe, communication is probably going to be an issue. But Iupati needs to go because he's seriously limited athletically and cannot block in space. If defenses put a DT over his nose he can lock on and can be fine (exception, quick guys like Donald). The Giants made Iupati block LBs at the 2nd level, in space, and Iupati couldn't get a finger on them. And those LBs would make, or be in on, the tackles. So, as the Seattle OC, you see that but don't make any adjustments in blocking responsibilities or play calling??? Another example of bad scheme: 3rd down and long, and Seattle throws a 3-yard drag route to Hollister??? Some might say that's bad play calling or decision making. But Seattle does stuff like that all the time. At some point, Seattle coaches have to coach up the offense, if the defense does "this", we're going to counter with "that", and start taking what the defense gives, etc.
You were watching much of what frustrated me, too. That and the TE's couldn't sustain a block or catch a pass. Carson dropped, what...two + passes in space? Mefcalf gets all whiney about target count and drops several. Add them up and the complete surprise INT from Russell and you have a different game outcome. It's like everyone didn't get any sleep for two days on the O-side. Russell Wilson had no outside to scramble and Donald effectively sealed the middle any time he moved. They were outplayed....by LA and themselves. They have alot of contracts to deal with like some of the other contenders.
To Dirt's observation: the clock in Russell's head had to be on active-alarm mode 1 second after the snap!
 
Reactions: jmdirt
I think he's done. He was terrible in the first half with 3 picks where the Browns capitalized on each one scoring touchdowns. He put the team in a deep hole that they couldn't recover from.

You can't have an aging HOF QB play that bad in your opening playoff game. This team was 12-4, division winners with a record setting season and they're one & done against a team they were favored over (it's not like he hasn't seen the playoffs before).

Someone has got to take the hit for this. The organization isn't going to fire Tomlin - he probably could stay there forever. Though Big Ben had a great season statistically leading the team to a division title, none of that matters when you're one & done in the playoffs because of very poor play by your veteran QB.

Ya, he probably should be done. I thought that last year too. I wonder if Brady's longevity is making it more difficult for QBs to call it quits.
 
Reactions: SHAD0W93 and jmdirt
Quite a few pundits picked the Steelers and Hawks to be one and done. The Steelers form slump just before the playoffs looked ominous whereas Seattle just didn't execute on the day. It's not the NBA, you only get the one game to progress ! That said I think Seattle could do with a coaching change : head coach and O/C , the offense looks a bit stale even if they have some quality players. The defense was awful early in the season but has been improving but they were lucky that the offense was clicking in the first half of the season and they racked up a string of wins. But like the Steelers their offense started to go off late in the season.. The Rams always match up well with them so it was always going to be a grind out game unless the Rams defense was off which it obviously wasn't.

I think the Rams have the game to bother GB if Goff/Wolford can game manage and keep their turnovers down and Akers is doing well at RB. Don't see the Bucs getting past the Saints. The Browns/Chiefs game should be interesting as the Browns offense has improved and they have a good run game. Bills/Ravens could go either way.
 
Reactions: SHAD0W93 and jmdirt
People will look at consistency with Seattle, making it to the playoffs again, 9th time in 11 seasons under Carroll, which is nice, but since making it to the SB in February 2015, they plateaued at the Divisional round. That’s it. And every playoff loss they’ve had they’ve been outplayed. There’s stagnation and stubbornness is a big part of it. Carroll signed a 4 year extension two months ago. So unless the Hawks completely explode next season, they are stuck with him for a while longer. There were talks 3 seasons ago (or so) of a rebuild, just letting players go and focusing on getting higher draft picks and looking to the future, but they simply retooled and got on with it, which I think wasn’t a bad idea, and give credit to Pete and John Schneider for drafting well and having eyes for talent on draft day and also in free agency. That said, the staff has failed during the season and in games. I’ve read that Pete is a great coach from Monday to Saturday but not as good on game day. The more I watch, the more I agee with those who say/write that.
 
Ya, he probably should be done. I thought that last year too. I wonder if Brady's longevity is making it more difficult for QBs to call it quits.
Wouldn't surprise me since more and more seem to want to keep playing longer from him continuing and performing well. The big difference is how Brady takes care of himself and for how long he's been doing it for. Just compare him to how Ben trains and eats.
 
Some zany examples of basic football,when your center scores a touchdown for the other team!! And big Ben tossed 4 interceptions..Steelers beat themselves.
And on balance..nobody really really thinks of Tom Brady as a rushing threat..that said the weird science and play calling have defenders not knowing if it's a run or a pass..so if his great passing causes a high level of respectful over coverage..ok it opens up the running game. I don't understand why Gronk gets what he gets but they constantly use the block release thing,were he holds the block for @8ft, turns around and Brady puts it in his numbers..or he starts what looks like a post,again stops at 6-8 yards out and turns around to find the ball..I don't love Tampa but they really have a ton of variety..the receiver corp is really good,same w running game..offensive line, decent..
 
Reactions: jmdirt
Steelers game was pretty much over after one quarter. From their first play they looked bad. They had the two players closest to the ball by quite a way but didn't dive on it........what the hell were they doing ? After that they just imploded. Tomlin must be bitterly disappointed with the way the Steelers finished off the season after such a great start on their unbeaten run. And you can't blame injuries or Covid, plenty of teams had to deal with that. They could also use a run game so Ben doesn't have to throw so much.
 
Reactions: jmdirt and SHAD0W93
People will look at consistency with Seattle, making it to the playoffs again, 9th time in 11 seasons under Carroll, which is nice, but since making it to the SB in February 2015, they plateaued at the Divisional round. That’s it. And every playoff loss they’ve had they’ve been outplayed. There’s stagnation and stubbornness is a big part of it. Carroll signed a 4 year extension two months ago. So unless the Hawks completely explode next season, they are stuck with him for a while longer. There were talks 3 seasons ago (or so) of a rebuild, just letting players go and focusing on getting higher draft picks and looking to the future, but they simply retooled and got on with it, which I think wasn’t a bad idea, and give credit to Pete and John Schneider for drafting well and having eyes for talent on draft day and also in free agency. That said, the staff has failed during the season and in games. I’ve read that Pete is a great coach from Monday to Saturday but not as good on game day. The more I watch, the more I agee with those who say/write that.
I agree with the game day strategy but, to be fair; last year the team was on injury triage and limped into and out of the playoffs. Saturday they were flat and unprepared. Playing the same smash mouth that had beaten LA several weeks before couldn't have worked as LA had time to adjust. That prior win wasn't dominating enough to rely on it again. Just bad strategy and prep with no adjustments that meant anything. Again; the players need to make blocks and catch balls, too. The coaches can't do that for them.
 
Dang! Wish SEA could've gotten Quinn back. SEA defense did get better after acquiring Adams & Dunlop, and getting that defense turned around gives room for hope, but I still did not like some of the conservative defensive play calling.

Not surprised to see Pederson go. The organization was really painted into a corner over the Wentz-Pederson rift. Wentz had said he wanted out of the team. I took that to mean "if Pederson remained as HC". Wentz's contract almost made it impossible to keep Pederson. Here's Carson's dead money and cap savings (or hit in parn.) from overthecap:

IF CUT BEFORE JUNE 1:
YEAR DEAD MONEYCAP SAVINGS
2021 $59,220,608($24,547,072)
2022 $24,547,072 $6,727,464
2023 $15,273,536$19,000,00
2024 $6,000,000$26,000,000

IF CUT AFTER JUNE 1:
YEAR DEAD MONEYCAP SAVINGS
2021 $34,673,536$0
2022 $9,273,536$22,001,000
2023 $9,273,536$25,000,000
2024 $6,000,000$26,000,000

IF TRADED BEFORE JUNE 1:
YEAR DEAD MONEYCAP SAVINGS
2021 $33,820,608$852,928
2022 $24,547,072$6,727,464
2023 $15,273,536$19,000,000
2024 $6,000,000$26,000,000

The numbers get a little better for the organization if Carson were traded after June 1 (not shown in tables above), resulting in a bit more than $9M in dead money, but I would not expect that outcome.

But look at what happens if he's cut in 2021 before June 1 ($59M in dead money, and a cap HIT of $24.5M to NOT be on the team)! :eek: Add to that Pederson's performance and meltdown to end the season made it an easy choice to fire him.
 
Schottenheimer out in SEA. I hope that the new OC is either a line guru or brings one with him (or both).
I think this had to happen (Carroll would not take the responsibility for that historic offensive collapse in the last half of the season), but it is curious. Last Monday Carroll said:
The move (to fire Shotty) is different from what head coach Pete Carroll was planning on following the team's postseason elimination

On Monday, he acknowledged that the team could "run the ball better" and "run it more" in 2021 but said Schottenheimer would be returning as the offensive coordinator next season.
The most curious to me is Shotty was hired in the first place because of his run-oriented philosophy. But according the team:
In a tweet on Tuesday, the team cited "philosophical differences" as the reason for parting ways with Schottenheimer.
So, how did this philosophical difference happen? It looks like Shotty was fired for failing to accomplish the very thing he was hired for. I'm sure coach Shotty is NOT completely to blame. If they are planning to run "more" and run "better" as Carroll said, they will need big improvements in OL talent. Unfortunately for them, except for rookie guard Damian Lewis, SEA has not been successful drafting OL talent. And simply signing former 1st round busts (e.g. Ogbuehi) and over-the-hill vets (e.g. Iuptai) is not getting it done.
 
Reactions: jmdirt
Dang! Wish SEA could've gotten Quinn back. SEA defense did get better after acquiring Adams & Dunlop, and getting that defense turned around gives room for hope, but I still did not like some of the conservative defensive play calling.

Not surprised to see Pederson go. The organization was really painted into a corner over the Wentz-Pederson rift. Wentz had said he wanted out of the team. I took that to mean "if Pederson remained as HC". Wentz's contract almost made it impossible to keep Pederson. Here's Carson's dead money and cap savings (or hit in parn.) from overthecap:

IF CUT BEFORE JUNE 1:
YEAR DEAD MONEYCAP SAVINGS
2021 $59,220,608($24,547,072)
2022 $24,547,072$6,727,464
2023 $15,273,536$19,000,00
2024 $6,000,000$26,000,000

IF CUT AFTER JUNE 1:
YEAR DEAD MONEYCAP SAVINGS
2021 $34,673,536$0
2022 $9,273,536$22,001,000
2023 $9,273,536$25,000,000
2024 $6,000,000$26,000,000

IF TRADED BEFORE JUNE 1:
YEAR DEAD MONEYCAP SAVINGS
2021 $33,820,608$852,928
2022 $24,547,072$6,727,464
2023 $15,273,536$19,000,000
2024 $6,000,000$26,000,000

The numbers get a little better for the organization if Carson were traded after June 1 (not shown in tables above), resulting in a bit more than $9M in dead money, but I would not expect that outcome.

But look at what happens if he's cut in 2021 before June 1 ($59M in dead money, and a cap HIT of $24.5M to NOT be on the team)! :eek: Add to that Pederson's performance and meltdown to end the season made it an easy choice to fire him.
Winning a SB a few seasons ago didn't count for much obviously. I'm still not convinced that this will be favourable for Wentz.. No one has anything good to say about Wentz at the moment, either his play or his off field behavior and I mean no one ! I think it was more about the media fanning the flames with Hurts benching even though most people thought Pederson did nothing wrong and improved their draft position. But he he got called out for it my the moral minority and on the back of a bad season and the QB controversies it was enough. I notced Aaron Rodgers talking to Wentz for a long time after their last Eagles/GB ;game. Rodgers was patting him on the back and seemed to be trying to encourage him not to lose faith with his form slump. I can't see any team willing to trade for him.
 
Last edited:
I think this had to happen (Carroll would not take the responsibility for that historic offensive collapse in the last half of the season), but it is curious. Last Monday Carroll said:

The most curious to me is Shotty was hired in the first place because of his run-oriented philosophy. But according the team:

So, how did this philosophical difference happen? It looks like Shotty was fired for failing to accomplish the very thing he was hired for. I'm sure coach Shotty is NOT completely to blame. If they are planning to run "more" and run "better" as Carroll said, they will need big improvements in OL talent. Unfortunately for them, except for rookie guard Damian Lewis, SEA has not been successful drafting OL talent. And simply signing former 1st round busts (e.g. Ogbuehi) and over-the-hill vets (e.g. Iuptai) is not getting it done.
I know Carroll got extended but sooner or later he will probably be called on the constant playoff appearances without showing anything for it. Think this will be his last contract at the Hawks unless they have a run of success by at least winning the conference not just the division even though it's the toughest division in the NFL. The new O/C is a critical signing for the Hawks looking at their offense in recent times.
I think the 49ers also would have been interested in Quinn if Saleh picks up a head coach position as expected. But some people seem in two minds about Quinn and his defensive meltdowns in big games. Still he has to be an improvement at Dallas on what they already had in place. Hawks O line was terrible against the Rams. Shanahan seems to do a much better job than Carroll with scheming around Donald and Ramsey and minimizing their impact on the game. Even a wounded Niners team swept the Rams again this season, and that was with injuries on both sides of the ball. Donald had some decent games against the Niners of late but not outstanding ones and Ramsey has been largely anonymous.

Carroll obviously sees the run game in the division as vital but injuries also had an effect on them. The 49ers are very run centric, the Cardinals can be especially with Murray and the Rams also are especially when Goff is off his game and even when they made it to the SB they still had Gurley being used quite a lot so Carroll is looking at the match ups in the division also the Niners and Rams have good secondaries and the Cardinals are still rebuilding. Seems GB also learned from the Niners success last season with their run game. Although if the Rams and 49ers had better QBs that strategy could change, Jimmy G especially doesn't have a strong arm and the Rams also use a lot of short passes. Murray is a dual threat and strong in both departments more like a faster version of Russell.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY