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National Football League

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To shame

It is really sad to see Donovan McNabb rant about his former Skins HC Shanahan. http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7774248/washington-redskins-mike-shanahan-takes-high-road-donovan-mcnabb-barbs Donovan says he was misused in Washington, that ego gets too involved being at Washington, and that RG3 would not be a good fit there. And then uses Grossman, Beck and Griese as examples to support those claims.

Is Donovan forgetting one QB who had no problem with Shanahan and who played under him at Denver? Hello Donovan! Elway! I wish Foxxy was reading this to supply any supporting stats, but my impression is that Elway was a far better QB than McNabb, and maybe that's part of Donovan's problem.

How many great QB's (and I'd put Donovan at his best in that category) later in life or later in their career try to torpedo a former coach who's a great coach? There could be a few, but not many if any. So what's sad about this is McNabb is really tarnishing himself by making these rediculous statements. Now I really hope RG3 ends up a Skin and shines under Shanahan so we will know once and for all who has the ego problem.
 
Greg Williams is finished, not just this year, but I have to wonder if he'll ever coach anywhere again. Even if his suspension ends, I have to wonder if any team is going to hire the guy. USA Today article.

I think RG3 is going to do fine under Shanahan. McNabb is just bitter. I think because he came close to the big game in Philly, left to get more money in Washington, which was probably an inferior team, and underperformed while getting paid a lot of money, and his career was over before he wanted it to be.

Also, if I recall correctly, Jake Plummer had a pretty decent career in Denver, performing above what a lot of people expected he would. And didn't Shanahan draft Jay Cutler? Seems like he's had a pretty good career.
 
Yeup, I think you nailed it about Williams' future. Just like Pete Rose and no MLB Hall of Fame, but for other reasons. Williams could do a 180 flip-flop to change his approach, do the song and dance to sound remorseful as all get-out, and still never get back to the NFL or collegiate level. And any college who picked him up would likely see a decline in success at recruiting quality athletes, and would be nuts to give him a chance. Not even WSU would take him. So much for the saying, "what goes on or is said in the locker room stays in the locker room". In this case though, I think it is a very good thing that the audio was leaked to the public.

Now for a crazed rant... if I was a dad of one of Williams' intended recipients of "kills to the head", I'd be mad as h-e-l-l. Williams would be better off in a phone booth with a bobcat, or in the same cage with mama grizzly bear and her cub. He should have realized people would feel that way if they knew. Just goes to show how much thought and consideration he gave the whole idea of trying to end opposing players' careers, which is essentially what he was doing. Well, now he's done. Yay!
 
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I hope Payton's and the GM's ban gets extended. No way they didn't know IMO, and I have heard on sports talk that they lied to the NFL about whether or not they had stopped the bounties. The irony about them trying to get the reduced sentence the same day this hits the press, though I am sure Goodell knew about it. No wonder Williams took his punishment quietly. I am sure the Saints will try to throw him under the bus to save the higher ups.

What I disagree with is that they are allowed to get a replacement head coach. If this was a problem outside of Williams permeating up though the organization, then they should not be allowed to replace him.....they should be made to play with the staff they have shorthanded. Now they get to hire Parcells or somebody...some punishment to the organization. :rolleyes:

As a disclaimer, I totally dislike the Saints. Anything to make that team fail and see their trashy fans pizzed off is all good to me.
 
Chris - Goddell and the commissioner's office knew about Payton and the other staff being aware and their lying about not knowing about the bounty program. This was one of the primary factors in his decision on the ban being so harsh.

I am all but certain Goddell will outright reject whatever appeal is presented to him and keep all suspensions and fines in tact. It's not just the timing, it's the potential lawsuits that future players or their families may file with the NFL for not taking action. Goddell has sided with safety since he has been in charge, and he's not going to change now.

Regarding hiring a replacement coach, I think at some point you have to be careful as to who you discipline, and make sure justice falls on those who committed the crime. There's no reason for hurting people who had nothing to do with the situation; current and new players and staff. Why punish Chris Chamberlain, Curtis Lofton, or Steve Spagnola for example? Or all the rookies they are going to draft? They weren't even members of the team when this all happened.
 
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You could say the same thing about Astana being barred from the 08 tour. After all, why punish the whole team? :cool:

I think a scorched earth on this with the saints would be good policy. Hiring Parcells or something of that magnitude will not cause them to lose a beat. That is not right IMO. Everybody still gets a paycheck and can play, so I don't buy the "poor" others POV; just don't allow them to get a new head coach and struggle thru the season without one. Life will go on.

OK so he was aware they were lying. So, the fact they have the nerve to ask for a reduced sentence in the face of that is ludicrous. I think they should get another 1/2 year tagged on for such idiocy.
 
I agree 100% with your last post Alpe. But I also understand where Chris is coming from. Me, I am more like the NFL players' dad who was reported today as saying something very close to "it would be better for me to not be in the same room with Greg Williams". :cool: That dad, like me, would be inclined to take Greg's head off. An eye for an eye.

As for the bans handed out to Saints staff, comparing the Saints ban to the ASO's ban of Astana from the 2008 Tour is like comparing apples and oranges (and not just because they are different sport). The ASO had a major axe to grind from the 2007 Tour when the Vino-lead Astana team hammered against French hopeful Morreau, who lost 15 or 20 minutes, and essentially ended Morreau's chances to even podium in the 2007 Tour. OFC, Vino then disgraced the Tour by later testing positive, which also ruffled the ASO's feathers. I'm not sure the ASO was fair in that 2008 ban possibly because of what happened in 2007. The thing is, what is the right thing to do in the Saints case. I think Goodell has nailed it. He seems more interested in doing the right thing. We have to keep in mind there are some innocent Saints players who were in no position to buck the coaches and team management, even if they thought the bounty practice was excessive, inappropriate, and/or unethical. So from that standpoint, I have no problem if the team hires an interim head coach.

But here's a thought. Rather than letting the Saints hire any interim head coach they want, the NFL (Goodell) should have a say in who the Saints hire. Someone who the league approves of and who the league feels will be instrumental in helping the Saints turn around the mentality in that tarnished Saints organization.
 
I think you're too biased there.

Again, let's punish those who committed the crime. They've already done that with the staff, and as I said I'll be surprised if Greg Williams ever coaches again at any level. And I think stiff fines and suspensions will be handed out still to several players.

But why punish those who had nothing to do with it? Just because you don't like the team?
 
Alpe d'Huez said:
I think you're too biased there.

Again, let's punish those who committed the crime. They've already done that with the staff, and as I said I'll be surprised if Greg Williams ever coaches again at any level. And I think stiff fines and suspensions will be handed out still to several players.

But why punish those who had nothing to do with it? Just because you don't like the team?

Judging by the posting times, I think you must have been commenting on Chris's post being too biased. ;)
 
Yes, aimed at Chris comments.

I would have no problem with the league controlling approval of the Saints HC replacement. I'm sure Parcells, Mariucci or Mangini would pass muster. Same with Carmichal or Spagnola for that matter. I mean, who wouldn't be approved?

Kind of sad that probably the best coaches in the NFL (Payton and Bellicheck) are also the two dirtiest. I may not like the Giants much, but considering I think Eli is overrated, I'm going to put Tom Coughlin in that group as well. At least he doesn't have the same skeletons.

Two weeks from the draft...
 
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Alpe d'Huez said:
I think you're too biased there.

Again, let's punish those who committed the crime. They've already done that with the staff, and as I said I'll be surprised if Greg Williams ever coaches again at any level. And I think stiff fines and suspensions will be handed out still to several players.

But why punish those who had nothing to do with it? Just because you don't like the team?

No, I would feel the same way if it was the Texans. I said upthread I didn't like the Saints, but please don't use that to insinuate my sense of right and wrong is skewed. Some of us form opinions before we look to see which side we are on. No matter how hard I try, that is a trait I can't seem to correct. That's why I get in so much trouble in here, as you know. :cool:
 
ChrisE said:
Some of us form opinions before we look to see which side we are on.
Or loudly pass judgment before knowing most of the facts. Some of us, that is...

So, what do you think the most appropriate punishment for the Saints should be?

Quite a few ex-players on ESPN and FOX saying what Williams said really isn't that different than what they heard in prep meetings. Though there are apparently a lot of quiet players and staff around the league that support Goddell's decision as well.

There's something curiously lacking so far, and I'm waiting for someone to put it together. That is a video reel showing just how the Saints played in games where bounties were given. I've seen Favre on the cart, and the Warner hit, but I want to see someone list the bounties, then show a more completely analysis with many plays and hits of the game in reference. I want to see with my own eyes just what the Saints players were doing in those games. There's no doubt Williams was flat wrong for what he did, and for the rest of the staff (including Payton) for lying about it. But in regard to how to punish the players I want to see a list, and corresponding video. As the old saying goes, the proof is in the pudding.
 
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Alpe d'Huez said:
Or loudly pass judgment before knowing most of the facts. Some of us, that is...

So, what do you think the most appropriate punishment for the Saints should be?

Quite a few ex-players on ESPN and FOX saying what Williams said really isn't that different than what they heard in prep meetings. Though there are apparently a lot of quiet players and staff around the league that support Goddell's decision as well.

There's something curiously lacking so far, and I'm waiting for someone to put it together. That is a video reel showing just how the Saints played in games where bounties were given. I've seen Favre on the cart, and the Warner hit, but I want to see someone list the bounties, then show a more completely analysis with many plays and hits of the game in reference. I want to see with my own eyes just what the Saints players were doing in those games. There's no doubt Williams was flat wrong for what he did, and for the rest of the staff (including Payton) for lying about it. But in regard to how to punish the players I want to see a list, and corresponding video. As the old saying goes, the proof is in the pudding.

Really? What facts about the coaching staff and the GM are missing? If there is more to come about the coaches and PM then the punishment should be more severe, so I am not sure what you are alluding to here in the bolded.

As for the players, as I said upthread the game is inherently violent and if these plays would have happened anyway then why the bounties? Why silently condone this if you are a player by putting up with it? It is similar to omerta in cycling, and the key to breaking it is the players. Can you imagine sitting in a locker room getting all worked up with talk about ending other player's careers?

I have not stated my opinion about what the player punishment should be, so maybe that is what you are alluding to with not knowing the facts. If proof is put together then I think the punishment should be less than the coaches. I understand the peer pressure and the unique situation they are in even from my lofty diatribe in the previous paragraph. It's easy to criticize omerta for example without having to take one's livelihood into consideration.
 
Wow, now there is even talk of criminal charges:

Instead of charging individual incidents as though they were a series of assaults and batteries, a criminal conspiracy could be charged using federal criminal law. Under the so-called Hobbs Act (18 USC 1951), a racketeering statute, whoever conspires to commit physical violence to any person in furtherance of a plan or purpose which in anyway or degree effects commerce is in violation of the statute. Clearly the NFL and all of its teams are involved in interstate commerce.

What if organized crime and professional gambling interests became aware of or participated in the pay-to-injure activities? (Who understands paying bounties for injuries better than the mob?) That would change the whole perspective. This is why it is important for the NFL to come down hard on the participants in Bountyate. The integrity of the game is at risk. The potential for criminal prosecution should not be dismissed, but rather held in abeyance.

I can just see office pools betting not only who will win and what the score will be, but who gets carted off the field.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/f...-a-conspiracy-article-1.1058105#ixzz1rYq5d5Vl

Incidentally, the Saints were second in the NFL last year in endangering penalties (or whatever the technical term is). These are distinguished from penalties that don’t involve any rough play, like offsides and holding. No. 1, no surprise, was the Raiders, but the Raiders, again, no surprise, also led the NFL in total penalties. The idea being the Raiders just play sloppy, so a large number of endangering penalties is a consequence of that. Whereas the Saints led the NFL in the % of total penalties that were endangering ones, suggesting the latter were the result of targeting opposing players.

I think Williams might be effectively banned from the NFL, i.e., he is not barred from returning, but no team will take him. But I can see him getting a job at the college level. Americans are very forgiving--look at Michael Vick--and a lot of programs that haven't been able to take the step to elite status would jump at the chance of getting a guy with NFL experience cheap. Sure, there would be protests on campus, but look at all the protests by Eagles fans when Vick joined the team.

The biggest problem Williams faces, I think, is that he can't put this behind him the way Vick could. He can be contrite and apologize, but if he coaches again, how does he tell his players to go out and hit hard? In demonstrating his remorse, he runs the risk of being afraid to encourage even legal hits.
 
ChrisE said:
Really? What facts about the coaching staff and the GM are missing?
I was alluding to your calling for more severe punishment in regards to the lying. As I stated this was NOT new information. The fact that the staff lied to the commissioner's office was well known and part of the key factor in making the suspension so long in the first place. You initially wrote as if it were something new that just came to light, and the commissioner should extend the ban as a result.

I was also alluding to your sometimes combative behavior that has gotten you in trouble here more than a few times. But there's no need to dwell on that.

Merckx index said:
.The idea being the Raiders just play sloppy, so a large number of endangering penalties is a consequence of that. Whereas the Saints led the NFL in the % of total penalties that were endangering ones, suggesting the latter were the result of targeting opposing players.
This is likely very true. The Raiders were a mess of a team, but the Saints were anything but.

I think Williams might be effectively banned from the NFL, i.e., he is not barred from returning, but no team will take him. But I can see him getting a job at the college level.
I disagree. The phones to the AD or university president's office would ring off the hook from parents, not to mention alumni, boosters, etc. His only hope is to keep doing what he's doing, shut up, do not appeal the suspension, and eventually the dust will clear and he can seem very contrite and maybe in a few years a team will give him another shot. Though it may not be as a coach. He may be stuck in player evaluations, scouting, etc.

Americans are very forgiving--look at Michael Vick....

Somewhat disagree. Vick is still one of the most despised athletes in all of sports. He got a very favorable ruling from the commissioner, and most reporters decided to not press him one bit on the dog fighting or prison issue and let it slide. But there are still a LOT of people that don't like or trust the guy, let alone forgive him. And more than a few who don't believe he's being genuine, and is only sorry he got caught. FoxSports 2012 updated poll has Vick as the top most disliked athlete.Vick came up #2 on Forbes list of most hated athletes. Only Tiger Woods was higher. And Sporting News poll had Vick at #1. On my personal list, he's probably #2 (guess who is top, cycling fans!).

The biggest problem Williams faces...if he coaches again, how does he tell his players to go out and hit hard? In demonstrating his remorse, he runs the risk of being afraid to encourage even legal hits.

Generally agree with your analysis, which is why I think if he comes back it won't be as a DC, and maybe not as a coach.
 
I agree the Raiders were a mess, and are even a worse mess now that they fired their HC that brought back some degree of repspectability regarding their play on the field. Leave it to the Davis familiy to mess it up for them.

I also disagree that Gregg Williams will get a shot coaching at the college level. Not just for the reasons Alpe mentioned (phone calls to just about every university staff from just about every source), but let's for grins assume he COULD get hired as a college coach. How is he going to get enough quaility recruits? Parents have a lot of influence on their kids about their choice of college, and that would be reflected on Letter of Intent Signing Day. So if he did get a shot at the D-I level, he would not last long. His eventual losing record would cause him to be forced out. I think he would get the same resistence at the D-II, D-III, and NAIA levels. Now JUCO may be an option, but I still don't see that either.
 
Yeah, considering it was a slam dunk decision it still was a pretty quick one due to the need (for lack of better word) to give the appearance of giving the decision some thought. If there was no need to give a thoughtful appearance, then I don't know why Goodell didn't just deny the appeal immediately last week. But I suppose the appeal came with an explanation of the rationale for the appeal, which Goodell would have to read and respond to thoughtfully.

@Merckx index: Criminal charges? My gut feel says not. I have not heard any more about going in that direction. Anyone hear any more about possible criminal charges?
 
Parcells is now saying he's staying retired. It looks like the Saints are going to platoon the HC job. With Joe Vitt coaching once he gets back after his six game suspension, and Carmichal, Spagnola or Aaron Kromer coaching the first games.

Two weeks to go until the draft, and it really is looking like the Colts will indeed draft Luck, with RG3 of course going then to the Skins.

Still think the real bust in the draft is going to be Ryan Tannehill going at #8 to the Dolphins. Actually, it's not that he'll be a bust by his own accord, just that the Dolphins have so many problems, he'll likely get thrust into playing way too early, which will hurt him. They need to draft the best player available with their 1st pick, and the best QB available with their 2nd, and accept that this year is a growth year.

If Miami, or any other team needs a QB now, they should take Brandon Weeden. He played better in college than Tannehill (and beat him head to head last year), plus lead OSU to a Fiesta bowl win (over Andrew Luck none the less), he played a pro set, and looked great at both the combine and his Pro Day. So, he's "old", so what? So you may only get 4-6 years out of him. So what? By most indications he looks like he's going to be able to play in the NFL, and maybe this year.
 
Finally I have some new speculation (can't really call this information). But I'm posting this because it flies against just about everything we've been saying about Tannehill as the 8th overall pick by the Fins. Sit down. Are you ready? How about Tannehill as the 3rd overall to the Chiefs, as made possible by bold trading, and as reported on FOX by Pete Shrader? Here is Pete's entire first round mock draft:
1. Indianapolis Colts: Andrew Luck, QB, Stanford
2. Washington Redskins (from St. Louis Rams): Robert Griffin III, QB, Baylor
3. Kansas City Chiefs (via predicted trade with Minnesota Vikings): Ryan Tannehill, QB, Texas A&M
Here’s what Peter FOXSports.com thinks will happen:
Matt Cassel is a fine enough middle-of-the-road starting quarterback, but he’s not leading the Chiefs to the Super Bowl anytime soon. There also doesn’t seem to be an overwhelming amount of confidence in him from the head coach and front office. Tannehill is not close to a finished product, but he has unlimited potential. Unlike his doubters — and there are many — I think he could end up being a tremendous NFL quarterback. The more I watch him on tape, the more I love what he can bring to an offense. He’s mobile and smart and has the size and arm for the NFL. Using the ol’ trade value chart, the No. 3 overall pick would cost Kansas City its first (11th overall), third (66th overall) and fourth (98th overall) selections. To get a franchise QB? If I’m Scott Pioli, I’m asking, “Where do I sign?”
Okay. Before moving on to #4, how about signing KC's GM and HC over to the funny farm if they do that deal? That is a huge chance to take on a guy way ahead of where they should be drafted and in the top 5 picks where better athletes are still available. If management wants to pull a surprise like this one predicted by Peter, then they had best have some very good scouting reports. Not that it can't work out for KC, but that's a huge gamble. Seattle kind of did that last year with their first two picks, but they were in the lower third of the draft order (somewhere around #22), not the THIRD OVERALL. That is a classic example of two contrasting drafting philosophies; drafting for position at all cost, versus drafting the best athlete available.

4. Cleveland Browns: Morris Claiborne, CB, LSU
5. Tampa Bay Buccaneers: Trent Richardson, RB, Alabama
6. New York Jets (via predicted trade with St. Louis Rams, from Redskins): Ryan Kalil, OT, USC
7. Jacksonville Jaguars: Justin Blackmon, WR, Oklahoma State
8. Miami Dolphins: Riley Reiff, OT, Iowa
9. Carolina Panthers: Fletcher Cox, DT/DE, Mississippi State
10. Buffalo Bills: Melvin Ingram, DE/OLB, South Carolina
11. Minnesota Vikings (via predicted trade with Chiefs): Jonathan Martin, OT, Stanford
12. Seattle Seahawks: Quinton Coples, DE, North Carolina
13. Arizona Cardinals: Mike Adams, OT, Ohio State
14. Dallas Cowboys: David DeCastro, OG, Stanford
15. Philadelphia Eagles: Michael Brockers, DT, LSU
16. St. Louis Rams (via predicted trade with Jets, from Redskins): Michael Floyd, WR, Notre Dame
17. Cincinnati Bengals (from Oakland Raiders): Dre Kirkpatrick, CB, Alabama
18. San Diego Chargers: Courtney Upshaw, DE/OLB, Alabama
19. Chicago Bears: Nick Perry, DE, USC
20. Tennessee Titans: Whitney Mercilus, DE, Illinois
21. Cincinnati Bengals: Luke Kuechly, LB, Boston College
22. Cleveland Browns (from Atlanta Falcons): Coby Fleener, TE, Stanford
23. Detroit Lions: Mark Barron, CB/S, Alabama
24. Pittsburgh Steelers: Dontari Poe, DT, Memphis
25. Denver Broncos: Devon Still, DT, Penn State
26. Houston Texans: Kendall Wright, WR, Baylor
27. New England Patriots (from New Orleans Saints): Cordy Glenn, G/OT, Georgia
28. Green Bay Packers: Shea McClellin, OLB, Boise State
29. Baltimore Ravens: Dont’a Hightower, LB, Alabama
30. San Francisco 49ers: Stephon Gilmore, CB, South Carolina
31. New England Patriots: Kendall Reyes, DT, Connecticut
32. New York Giants: Jayron Hosley, CB, Virginia Tech

And just for reference, here is the current draft order:
1: Indianapolis Colts, 2: Washington Redskins (from St. Louis), 3: Minnesota Vikings, 4: Cleveland Browns, 5: Tampa Bay Buccaneers, 6: St. Louis Rams (from Washington), 7: Jacksonville Jaguars, 8: Miami Dolphins, 9: Carolina Panthers, 10: Buffalo Bills, 11: Kansas City Chiefs, 12: Seattle Seahawks, 13: Arizona Cardinals, 14: Dallas Cowboys, 15: Philadelphia Eagles, 16: New York Jets, 17: Cincinnati Bengals (from Oakland), 18: San Diego Chargers, 19: Chicago Bears, 20: Tennessee Titans, 21: Cincinnati Bengals, 22: Cleveland Browns (from Atlanta), 23: Detroit Lions, 24: Pittsburgh Steelers, 25: Denver Broncos, 26: Houston Texans, 27: New England Patriots (from New Orleans), 28: Green Bay Packers, 29: Baltimore Ravens, 30: San Francisco 49ers, 31: New England Patriots, 32: New York Giants

Man o man, I am still shaking my head.
 
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on3m@n@rmy said:
Finally I have some new speculation (can't really call this information). But I'm posting this because it flies against just about everything we've been saying about Tannehill as the 8th overall pick by the Fins. Sit down. Are you ready? How about Tannehill as the 3rd overall to the Chiefs, as made possible by bold trading, and as reported on FOX by Pete Shrader? Here is Pete's entire first round mock draft:
1. Indianapolis Colts: Andrew Luck, QB, Stanford
2. Washington Redskins (from St. Louis Rams): Robert Griffin III, QB, Baylor
3. Kansas City Chiefs (via predicted trade with Minnesota Vikings): Ryan Tannehill, QB, Texas A&M
Here’s what Peter FOXSports.com thinks will happen:

Okay. Before moving on to #4, how about signing KC's GM and HC over to the funny farm if they do that deal? That is a huge chance to take on a guy way ahead of where they should be drafted and in the top 5 picks where better athletes are still available. If management wants to pull a surprise like this one predicted by Peter, then they had best have some very good scouting reports. Not that it can't work out for KC, but that's a huge gamble. Seattle kind of did that last year with their first two picks, but they were in the lower third of the draft order (somewhere around #22), not the THIRD OVERALL. That is a classic example of two contrasting drafting philosophies; drafting for position at all cost, versus drafting the best athlete available.

4. Cleveland Browns: Morris Claiborne, CB, LSU
5. Tampa Bay Buccaneers: Trent Richardson, RB, Alabama
6. New York Jets (via predicted trade with St. Louis Rams, from Redskins): Ryan Kalil, OT, USC
7. Jacksonville Jaguars: Justin Blackmon, WR, Oklahoma State
8. Miami Dolphins: Riley Reiff, OT, Iowa
9. Carolina Panthers: Fletcher Cox, DT/DE, Mississippi State
10. Buffalo Bills: Melvin Ingram, DE/OLB, South Carolina
11. Minnesota Vikings (via predicted trade with Chiefs): Jonathan Martin, OT, Stanford
12. Seattle Seahawks: Quinton Coples, DE, North Carolina
13. Arizona Cardinals: Mike Adams, OT, Ohio State
14. Dallas Cowboys: David DeCastro, OG, Stanford
15. Philadelphia Eagles: Michael Brockers, DT, LSU
16. St. Louis Rams (via predicted trade with Jets, from Redskins): Michael Floyd, WR, Notre Dame
17. Cincinnati Bengals (from Oakland Raiders): Dre Kirkpatrick, CB, Alabama
18. San Diego Chargers: Courtney Upshaw, DE/OLB, Alabama
19. Chicago Bears: Nick Perry, DE, USC
20. Tennessee Titans: Whitney Mercilus, DE, Illinois
21. Cincinnati Bengals: Luke Kuechly, LB, Boston College
22. Cleveland Browns (from Atlanta Falcons): Coby Fleener, TE, Stanford
23. Detroit Lions: Mark Barron, CB/S, Alabama
24. Pittsburgh Steelers: Dontari Poe, DT, Memphis
25. Denver Broncos: Devon Still, DT, Penn State
26. Houston Texans: Kendall Wright, WR, Baylor
27. New England Patriots (from New Orleans Saints): Cordy Glenn, G/OT, Georgia
28. Green Bay Packers: Shea McClellin, OLB, Boise State
29. Baltimore Ravens: Dont’a Hightower, LB, Alabama
30. San Francisco 49ers: Stephon Gilmore, CB, South Carolina
31. New England Patriots: Kendall Reyes, DT, Connecticut
32. New York Giants: Jayron Hosley, CB, Virginia Tech

And just for reference, here is the current draft order:
1: Indianapolis Colts, 2: Washington Redskins (from St. Louis), 3: Minnesota Vikings, 4: Cleveland Browns, 5: Tampa Bay Buccaneers, 6: St. Louis Rams (from Washington), 7: Jacksonville Jaguars, 8: Miami Dolphins, 9: Carolina Panthers, 10: Buffalo Bills, 11: Kansas City Chiefs, 12: Seattle Seahawks, 13: Arizona Cardinals, 14: Dallas Cowboys, 15: Philadelphia Eagles, 16: New York Jets, 17: Cincinnati Bengals (from Oakland), 18: San Diego Chargers, 19: Chicago Bears, 20: Tennessee Titans, 21: Cincinnati Bengals, 22: Cleveland Browns (from Atlanta), 23: Detroit Lions, 24: Pittsburgh Steelers, 25: Denver Broncos, 26: Houston Texans, 27: New England Patriots (from New Orleans), 28: Green Bay Packers, 29: Baltimore Ravens, 30: San Francisco 49ers, 31: New England Patriots, 32: New York Giants

Man o man, I am still shaking my head.
So in other words Shrader has both the Vikings and Rams trading away from a franchise left tackle.The Vikings gave up 23 sacks at left tackle last year 23 or 1.5 per game.
 
User Guide said:
So in other words Shrader has both the Vikings and Rams trading away from a franchise left tackle.The Vikings gave up 23 sacks at left tackle last year 23 or 1.5 per game.

You saw that too. Martin (grade 91) from Stanford is a pretty good LOT, probably the thrid best LOT in the draft behind Kalil (grade 97) and Reiff (grade 94). So to make that trade down the Vikes would have to like Martin enough and that he would work out well enough provided it is justified by the compensation in players and/or picks they would get by giving up that original high draft pick. The Vikes would get something substantial by trading down, plus maybe they would not want to be in a position to pay that much money for a third overall. This is one interesting part of mock drafts, trying to get inside the head of the organizations, or trying to understand what they may or may not do.
 
...speaking of drafting philosophies of postional need vs. best athlete available here is a humorous argument between two of the best NFL draft gurus (Todd McShay and Mel Kiper Jr.) as they discuss what the Rams might do IF both CB Maurice Claiborne and WR Justin Blackmon are still on the draft board when the Rams pick at #6 overall:
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:7796215&startTime=01:55
...the real argument starts at around 2:30 (before 2:30 is just some good background).

Here Chris Mortensen talks about the Saints appeal effectively bought Sean Payton 16 days before his ban would take effect... to "get his house in order": http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:7792678 (video only)

More NFL greats chime in on the lack of ethics involved in bounty hits... http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7799825/retired-nfl-players-known-toughness-say-new-orleans-saints-gregg-williams-crossed-line (article with same video above).
 
The thought that Tannehill should be drafted #3 on "potential" borders on desperation. There are probably a dozen QB's in the draft with "potential". And maybe more significant than that about a dozen more backup QB's in the NFL with potential, and experience. There has to be some psychobabble going on here. Thinking that because Tannehill hasn't played, there's always the hope, no matter how slim, that he'll lead them to the promised land, even if there is little logic in such speculation.

I'm not saying that Tannehill will be a Ryan Leaf like bust, but I am saying that he's a risk, a fairly big risk. Heck, even Luck and RG3 are risks. Smaller risks, but the coaches know they have to work some with them, and some faith is going to happen with any rookie like this. But I have seen nothing to show me that Tannehill is anywhere near the level of Luck/RG3. However, as I said, once the Redskins got the #2 pick, Tannehill's stock would rise, irrationally so, and we're seeing it. If he goes #3, then Cousins and Weeden's stock will rise.

What I have heard that makes some sense is if the Vikings aren't that impressed with Matt Kalil, and they wish to draft down. That I can see. But why anyone would take Tannhill at #3 is beyond me. It makes so much more sense to acknowledge that the QB's left are highly unlikely to start this year, or even play much, with the possible exception to Weeden, and teams should look to the 2nd or 4rd rounds to pick up someone like Cousins, Osweiler, Foles, Davis, etc. to develop.

I'm starting to now believe that in the 2013 draft Matt Barkley and Landry Jones will go 1-2. Yes, I'm making predictions on the 2012 draft now.

Also, I'll be a little surprised if the Buccaneers take Richardson. They already have Lagarret Blount who plays a similar style and has shown himself as a decent RB. But they could trade Blount and get something in return. This is where the real fun in the draft will be, picks 4-20 or so.
 

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