NBA / NCAA Basketball

[movingtarget]

Hey...it's NBA Championship time!

Can you imagine GS vs Cleveland...who would have thought?

No Coach Kerr on the floor, so the spotlight is on you Mike Brown.

Anyway, I'll take King James & J.R. "no shirt" Smith in 7

Somehow I don't think it will take 7 ! I think Golden State won't let it go to even 6.

 

[Nomad]

Hey...it's NBA Championship time!

Can you imagine GS vs Cleveland...who would have thought?

No Coach Kerr on the floor, so the spotlight is on you Mike Brown.

Anyway, I'll take King James & J.R. "no shirt" Smith in 7

Somehow I don't think it will take 7 ! I think Golden State won't let it go to even 6.

You might be right...that was down right ugly for the King, though LeBron is 1-7 in Game #1s.

And the Curry - Durantula show, most impressive...who would have imagined? Durantula looked like a human highlight reel out there...though it was a dunk contest at times. Great job Coach Brown (who needs Kerr back).

The King is going to need a lot more than the 24 from Irving. Smith didn’t look like his head was in the game. And 20 turnovers to 4 won't win you any games against a team like GS.
And Irving was quoted as saying that they "can't simulate Golden State's offense"...no kidding.


.

 

[Valv.Piti]

This might be the best basketball you are ever gonna watch, Curry and Durant are so natural on the court, its insane.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

My prediction is holding up. Though a quick peek into a history book will show you the Warriors won both games 1 & 2 easily last year (by 15 + 33 points).

 

[Angliru]

test

 

[movingtarget]

Cavs outclassed again. Sweep on the way unless something happens in a hurry.

 

[The Hitch]

Why in America is it a popular narrative to say it hurts lebrons record to be 3-5 in finals.

So if you make the finals and lose that is a loss, but if you don't even manage to ever make the finals, then it doesn't count as a loss?

 

[Nomad]

Re:

Cavs outclassed again. Sweep on the way unless something happens in a hurry.

I think you're right. LeBron looked like a beaten man walking off that court.

The Curry - Durantula combination is too overwhelming. Afterall, that's why KD left OKC, and looks like he'll get his ring.

 

[Nomad]

Re:

Why in America is it a popular narrative to say it hurts lebrons record to be 3-5 in finals.

So if you make the finals and lose that is a loss, but if you don't even manage to ever make the finals, then it doesn't count as a loss?

My guess is that it has to do with the comparison for the GOAT with Michael Jordon who is 6-0 in NBA finals.

 

[Angliru]

Attitudes change once a team gets to play on their home court. More familiar surroundings, supportive fans, courts and rims that are their own. The confidence level receives a boost at home. It's easier to maintain momentum at home with the fans cheering you and jeering your opponents every move. Plus there is the favorable officiating that seems to come with playing at home. The momentum can swing just that quickly with that change of venue. Where the Warriors were sloppy in the first half but still able to eke out a 3 point lead at the half, I have to think that were this in Cleveland, that level of carelessness with the ball would have resulted in a +10 point half time deficit.

What I noticed most importantly though was, in spite of the regular season games that were missed as "rest" for LeBron during the regular season to keep him fresh for the playoffs, this is the first time that I have seen him so visibly winded during a game. He had this look of despair, along with exhaustion, on his face while on the bench that I have never seen before.

Also his history of losing game 1's in the finals and still prevailing is surprising, but to lose games 1 and 2 by such large margins seems to have had an effect on his attitude. I base this on his refusal to take his place in front of the media on the podium as is the custom for players and coaches of both teams in the finals. To me that is a sign of frustration and somewhat of being a prima dona. Things not going his way one pouts but when the riding the wave of success all media obligations and traditions are honored.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Re: Re:

Why in America is it a popular narrative to say it hurts lebrons record to be 3-5 in finals.

So if you make the finals and lose that is a loss, but if you don't even manage to ever make the finals, then it doesn't count as a loss?

My guess is that it has to do with the comparison for the GOAT with Michael Jordon who is 6-0 in NBA finals.

Good question Hitch, and good answer Nomad.

It gets a little ridiculous at times with all the sports talk shows in America, but the GOAT discussion is one that gets visited quite often. Just this week I would not be surprised if 25% of NBA-watching households and 100% of sports talk shows had the NBA GOAT discussion. The two most prominent names discussed are Michael Jordan and Labron James. One of those talk shows, Skip and Shannon Undisputed, hosted the original Isiah Thomas (not the current Celtics point guard IT). The original IT had a very interesting take on who he would pick as the GOAT if he had to pick between MJ and LJ (Abdul-Jabar also was mentioned in the discussion). Isiah broke it down like this.
- Ok, let's talk about the MJ of the 80's and the MJ of the 90's. In the 80's, the NBA was dominated by the Celtics and Lakers. And while MJ in the 80's was pretty good, he had weaknesses that could be defensed (by double teaming and trapping to his weak side, forcing a pass). MJ would still score a lot of points, but that is how many teams defensed him. By the 90's, MJ had already been out of college a while and he had worked on those weaknesses and basically eliminated them, so he became unstoppable. But MJ did this with the finest NBA coaches.
- Now LJ came out of high school and has taken several teams to the NBA finals with no-name coaches. He said LJ understands opponents skills, weaknesses, and stats so well he could literally coach his team himself. Something MJ did not (implied could not) do.
- Using that comparison, Thomas made the point that LJ is a much better player from the neck up than MJ, and that he would rather have a player (without name LJ the GOAT) on his team who is a better player from the neck up than a player who is better from the neck down.

Believe the original IT or not, that is definitely a good argument.

 

[jmdirt]

GS has too many weapons. LJ, KL played well, and KI played OK for Cle. KD, SC, CT played well, and DG, SL, IC played OK for GS. That's pretty simple math. I would like Cle to figure something out at home, but what? Even if the the big three cancel out GS big three, it seems that GS has the advantage.

Hitch, I always ask that. GOAT conversation aside, somehow taking your team to the playoffs year after year and not winning a title is worse than not even making the post season in many peoples' minds (or at least that's how they talk). I get it, everyone wants a championship, but I'll take second over 15th any day.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Re:

GS has too many weapons. LJ, KL played well, and KI played OK for Cle. KD, SC, CT played well, and DG, SL, IC played OK for GS. That's pretty simple math. I would like Cle to figure something out at home, but what? Even if the the big three cancel out GS big three, it seems that GS has the advantage.

Hitch, I always ask that. GOAT conversation aside, somehow taking your team to the playoffs year after year and not winning a title is worse than not even making the post season in many peoples' minds (or at least that's how they talk). I get it, everyone wants a championship, but I'll take second over 15th any day.

Good analysis. And I agree 2nd place is better than 15th etc. Perpetual second place just invites second guessing.

To overcome the weapons GS has, Cavs are going to have to do some things differently. First, Cavs are going to have to play smarter. GS trapped Kyrie on at least the left sideline. So an example of how Cavs can counter offensively is for Kyrie to not dribble to the sidelines. Second, Cavs defensively are going to have to put more pressure on GS 3 point shooters outside the 3 point arc, making them as uncomfortable as possible. Plus, Cavs need to limit turnovers, and do a better job on the glass. Kerr obviously made a difference in his return with timely timeouts to manage the game. Can Liu match that? Finally, Cavs going to have to play harder with sense of urgency. At home the next 2 games should provide the shot of adrenaline they need. It will be interesting to see how the Cavs respond at home.

Can you believe talk about Durant as the best player in the NBA is gaining steam? Credit goes to KD for a strong offensive and defensive effort with all those blocked shots, but he's not there yet IMO. Funny. We were just talking about the GOAT as either MJ or LJ. Now they are talking about current greatest as either LJ or KD. I am more of a Tier guy than a GOAT guy.

 

[jmdirt]

Re: Re:

GS has too many weapons. LJ, KL played well, and KI played OK for Cle. KD, SC, CT played well, and DG, SL, IC played OK for GS. That's pretty simple math. I would like Cle to figure something out at home, but what? Even if the the big three cancel out GS big three, it seems that GS has the advantage.

Hitch, I always ask that. GOAT conversation aside, somehow taking your team to the playoffs year after year and not winning a title is worse than not even making the post season in many peoples' minds (or at least that's how they talk). I get it, everyone wants a championship, but I'll take second over 15th any day.

Good analysis. And I agree 2nd place is better than 15th etc. Perpetual second place just invites second guessing.

To overcome the weapons GS has, Cavs are going to have to do some things differently. First, Cavs are going to have to play smarter. GS trapped Kyrie on at least the left sideline. So an example of how Cavs can counter offensively is for Kyrie to not dribble to the sidelines. Second, Cavs defensively are going to have to put more pressure on GS 3 point shooters outside the 3 point arc, making them as uncomfortable as possible. Plus, Cavs need to limit turnovers, and do a better job on the glass. Kerr obviously made a difference in his return with timely timeouts to manage the game. Can Liu match that? Finally, Cavs going to have to play harder with sense of urgency. At home the next 2 games should provide the shot of adrenaline they need. It will be interesting to see how the Cavs respond at home.

Can you believe talk about Durant as the best player in the NBA is gaining steam? Credit goes to KD for a strong offensive and defensive effort with all those blocked shots, but he's not there yet IMO. Funny. We were just talking about the GOAT as either MJ or LJ. Now they are talking about current greatest as either LJ or KD. I am more of a Tier guy than a GOAT guy.

IMO, KD has a ways to go before we can put him in the same conversation with other greats. With that said, I think that he will get there. To tie it in with the other part of this discussion, how many rings does he have?

I agree that the GOAT debate is funky because there are too many factors in a team sport, plus how do you compare across generations. BUT, Air is still the top of the list in IMO. My top would be: Jordan, James, Magic, Jabbar, Bird. There in-lies the problem with this debate though, I really didn't watch Chamberlain, Russell, West, Robertson, etc. so I don't have a good reference for them.

 

[BullsFan22]

Last season the Cavs were down 2-0 (blown away in those games), and then 3-1, but came back. I think it was a combination of the Cavs turning it around and not giving up and the Warriors taking things for granted and not crossing the finish line when it was in sight. The same could very well happen this year, but I think the Warriors have learned their lesson. Cleveland will need their big three to play very well in order to come back. It's not implausible to think that LBJ, KI and KL will all need to score 25+ points each for them to have a shot. That and JRS will need to up his game. Golden State has too many weapons right now. I don't see their top guys going cold at the same time and not recovering. Cleveland may take a home game, but as I said earlier, I can't see Golden State making the same mistakes they made last year.

As far as the never ending GOAT talk, MJ is still the GOAT, certainly better than Lebron. I am not sure if Lebron is his main rival for that title though.

MJ's Chicago teams prior to 91 were not that good. He scored a record tying 63 points against the Celtics in 1986 and they lost the game, albeit in double OT, and that year's C's were arguably one the greatest NBA teams of all time. The Bulls record was 38-44 and just made it as an #8 seed. They fared better and pushed the Pistons a couple seasons but it wasn't until 1991 when they broke through. Jordan was at his peak in the late 80's early 90's, and with Pippen coming into his own, Paxson, Grant...they finally had a championship caliber team. The Cleveland teams were not that super either early in Lebron's career, but they were one of the best in the two seasons prior to Lebron moving to Miami. Him moving to 'greener pastures' is what many feel separates him and MJ, MJ stayed with the Bulls and the team was growing around him, instead of going to other teams with better players in them.

What surprises me is that Isiah Thomas not mentioning how tough the game was when he played. I mean he was on a team that epitomized the 80's and 90's: tough, hard-nosed basketball that sometimes got really nasty and into actual brawls. Rules have changed and teams aren't as physical and Lebron, like most other stars of the sport get a lot of leeway, particularly with those 'extra steps' and bogus fouls called on his opposition, but the biggest thing is the physical nature of the game, despite the fact that today's players being more athletic.

 

[Angliru]

Re:

Good post my old friend, I concur.

GS was also playing too loose, maybe too overconfident last year, and the bad officiating (against both teams, to be fair) threw them off as well. This year's Warriors seem to have a take no prisoners attitude. They are 28-1 in their last 29 games, and 12-0 in the playoffs. Their blowout of the Spurs looked like they were playing the Sixers.

Thanks Alpe!

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Well, it's safe to say I think the Cavs must win game 3. I think if they go into an 0-3 hole, it may as well end up 0-4. But home does help things, as Angliru and others have said.

I personally hate GOAT discussions, as it's impossible to compare someone like Wilt Chamberlain to MJ. Agree with on3m@n@rmy on being a "tier" guy.

Having said all that, if I were starting an all-time team from scratch the player I would draft first would be Magic Johnson. Though that doesn't mean I think he's the GOAT, I just think he would be such an amazing foundation to build on, who could make everyone around him better, and fill in wherever needed in any way needed.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Well, it's safe to say I think the Cavs must win game 3. I think if they go into an 0-3 hole, it may as well end up 0-4. But home does help things, as Angliru and others have said.

I personally hate GOAT discussions, as it's impossible to compare someone like Wilt Chamberlain to MJ. Agree with on3m@n@rmy on being a "tier" guy.

Having said all that, if I were starting an all-time team from scratch the player I would draft first would be Magic Johnson. Though that doesn't mean I think he's the GOAT, I just think he would be such an amazing foundation to build on, who could make everyone around him better, and fill in wherever needed in any way needed.

 

[jmdirt]

Well, [insert cliche' here], but I don't see Cle figuring this one out. Cle needs to get deeper for next year.

 

[movingtarget]

It's over and really it already was. Much better performance in Game 3 but the wheels fell off in the last few minutes. Snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. The big names for the Warriors have outperformed the big names for the Cavs as a group. Looks like player changes on the way for the Cavs.

 

[Nomad]

Re:

It's over and really it already was. Much better performance in Game 3 but the wheels fell off in the last few minutes. Snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. The big names for the Warriors have outperformed the big names for the Cavs as a group. Looks like player changes on the way for the Cavs.

No kidding did the wheels fall off in the last few minutes! I was stunned watching that - with 2:45 left Cleveland is up by 6, then an 11-0 run by GS to close out the game...unbelievable. Korver & Smith each missing a 3 pt shot where they both had a good look. And Love missing an easy bucket in the paint...pitiful. These guys weren't anything close to clutch with the game on the line. And the King pulling out all the stops by playing an incredible 46 mins!

What an overwhelming force this team is by the addition of Durantula, who'll get his ring after flicking his nose at OKC. The only question left is will GS go for the playoff sweep or let one slip by and win the title in front of the home crowd?

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

It's over and really it already was. Much better performance in Game 3 but the wheels fell off in the last few minutes. Snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. The big names for the Warriors have outperformed the big names for the Cavs as a group. Looks like player changes on the way for the Cavs.

No kidding did the wheels fall off in the last few minutes! I was stunned watching that - with 2:45 left Cleveland is up by 6, then an 11-0 run by GS to close out the game...unbelievable. Korver & Smith each missing a 3 pt shot where they both had a good look. And Love missing an easy bucket in the paint...pitiful. These guys weren't anything close to clutch with the game on the line. And the King pulling out all the stops by playing an incredible 46 mins!

What an overwhelming force this team is by the addition of Durantula, who'll get his ring after flicking his nose at OKC. The only question left is will GS go for the playoff sweep or let one slip by and win the title in front of the home crowd?

They probably would like to win at home but the thought of sweeping Lebron is probably too much of a carrot for players like Curry and Durant. Might see some post season changes at the Cavs. Kyrie played much better until the last few minutes. Some commentators thought that Kyrie and Lebron ran out of gas at the finish.

 

[masking_agent]

On a side note, does anyone know what the chances are Lonzo Ball going to LA Lakers as he's had a work out with them ? I keep reading different things, LA one day then Philly the next... All i know is that I feel sorry for any team who gets him as he is going disrupt that franchise with negative publicity

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Re:

On a side note, does anyone know what the chances are Lonzo Ball going to LA Lakers as he's had a work out with them ? I keep reading different things, LA one day then Philly the next... All i know is that I feel sorry for any team who gets him as he is going disrupt that franchise with negative publicity

The dad is the problem as everyone knows. I feel sorry for the kid.

 

[BullsFan22]

The Cavs arguably had their best game of the playoffs, certainly one of their best games of the season, and still came up short. Losing a three possession lead in the last couple minutes of the game after playing very well throughout must have sucked the life out of them. I don't see them winning a game now. That was as good an opportunity as they'll have to win a game, and perhaps (and that's a big perhaps) make it into a series, but they couldn't seal the deal. My guess is that the Warriors won't let off now. Finishing 16-0 in the playoffs is big for them, even if it means not getting their trophy at home.

Lebron will be 3-5 (assuming we don't see the greatest comeback in the history of American pro sports) in NBA finals now. The Cavs got spanked by the Spurs in Lebron's first finals in 2007. The Mavs surprised the Cavs in 2011, playing their best ball of the season and Nowitzki dialed in. In 2012 he won his first title, but I remember the refs playing a big role in the conference semis vs the Pacers and the Celtics sort of choking with having a 3-2 lead. The young and really inexperienced Thunder were overwhelmed. In 2013 it was Ray Allen winning 3 in game 6 that saved Lebron's bum from getting burned (that and some poor decisions from Poppovich and his boys). The Heat won game 7 to win the title. In 2014 and 2015 Lebron's teams were beaten quite handily. Last year was probably his most deserved title.