New site design

[CarolinaCyclist]

The Bottom Line

After spending the past day getting familiar with the site these are my initial recommendations/observations:


1) Take the spoilers out. If I'm away for the weekend with no access to the internet I always come back and read the live feeds, before knowing who won the stage. This was a competitive advantage of CN, not anymore.


2) Just because something looks pretty doesn't mean it reads pretty.


3) Put the photos back on the race results page. I enjoy being able to see the thumbnails before I decide to open a photo. At the moment I believe the only place to see the photos is by going to the photo link at the top right.


4) Listen to your users. If we don't like it nobody will. Without us CN would cease to exist.


5) You have the advantage of knowing you made a bad website, fix it and move on with life.


6) To CN staff: Never let your emotion blind reality, and never show your hand on a message board. We know you have to fold and by doing so you will be more profitable in the long run.

Just my two cents from someone who loves the old site.

 

[Lones1]

I think that's quite a reasonable suggestion to be honest, I will pass it on.

Thank you agaler

You appear to be the first CN staff member who has actually been helpful. I have read through the entire 37 pages and found most of the staff to be either rude & condescending or mainly in denial and although they answer some concerns, they appear to ignore the main ones, or put them in the too hard basket.

I understand that CN is trying to attract new readers, but if you lose the thousands that you already have, will this be a good business decision?

In the 37 pages of posts, I doubt there would be more than a dozen pro new site posts, this must tell you something, as should the amount of new postees just joining to show their disappointment and frustration, it is very clear that this is not right.

There are a truck load of sites just like the new one you have created, before you had a really unique site that people really appreciated.

Is it at all possible to get back even some of the features like before? I want the live ticker, with no spoilers, can this be put on a new tab, so we can have that as our main page before checking the rest of the site? Please?

Do you have a begging emicon?

Lones1

 

[lanceolot]

Shrinkage.

Thank-you for changing the site.

I am now spending less time here, and more time where it really matters, on the bike and in the financial pages.

I left eBay behind when they screwed up, and I can do the same with you.

Oh, and the way the pages load, it reminds me of the one single time I looked at porn, and only had a 56K connection.

I lost my errection and no amount of viagra can help. And it is not shrinkage. Good-bye forever.

 

[Greg Johnson]

Guys,

Just clearing up the contact issue - there's two addresses you need to know redesign@cyclingnews.com and cyclingnews@cyclingnews.com. The former is obviously the place for all feedback regarding the new website - I would encourage those who have reported issues with text overlapping itself to send screen shots to this address so we can analyze and troubleshoot.

The latter address is Cyclingnews' general editorial contact e-mail which can be accessed by all editorial staff - Daniel and myself included.

Again, I would encourage all constructive criticism to continue flowing. We've got some more functionality to the live site overnight, I see the visited-links colour hasn't been moved across yet but hopefully that will happen this evening and there's more in the works.

Thanks
Greg Johnson

 

[zyxwvu]

tell us why you liked stuff in the old site

-Functional
-Efficient
-Simple
-Fast
-Well arranged

and how you would improve the new site

Since the new design hardly complies to any of the above I think it's pretty clear what I would like to be improved in the new site.


I for one don't really care about the spoilers, but I can imagine it's a major letdown for people who do care about the spoilers. Same goes for all the other major concerns people have expressed here.

You can continue to focus on ans fix some small issues/bugs/errors that were always going to be resolved, but that won't make up for the fact that for the huge majority of your visitors this new site is being experienced as an epic fail.

 

[Anonymous]

as far as styling goes, one great advantage of opera is custom style sheets.. might have to have a play and sort it out myself..

acccesibility layout (now theres a fascinating term) removes all the images, shoves the race results to the very top, strangely it deems the news worthless and removes it completely..

 

[simonday]

Style over Substance

Hi Cyclingnews,

- Read a little of the BikeRadar copy backlash - can't say I've ever been to that site, as cyclingnews has been my internet homepage for the past 7-8 years and I never felt the need to look elsewhere. Until now.

- Stage winners announced in the homepage race results headlines smacks of appeasing those annoying little kids nagging mum at the supermarket for a sugary treat - why would you think people are going to stay longer at the site if they already know the race result, and see it before they get a chance to read the detailed stage/race report or stay even longer and savour the live report. This alone will make me walk away.

- The narrower page, particularly with the background colour at the top smacks of a similar impending advert technique employed by the Australian newspaper SMH which then cover the page and require a click to close (thenk goodness I use the mute button on my laptop). Another concentration diverting device that ultimately distracts the reader from what has been written.

The additional scrolling required is particularly annoying when most PCs and laptops are widescreen and can pack a whole lot more into the screen. Perhaps you are designing for mobile devices instead? A better use of space could be employed - for example, once the first or second story of the edition is passed, the stories still are cramped into the left half of the page, with blank space the remainder.

- News Edition summaries are listed for two days only, so you have to click open each days latest and first edition to see what went on, if you've been busy with non-cycling life, sick, on holiday, business trip etc - most frustrating.

Hope you take all your loyal readers feedback into consideration when tweaking the site,

SD

 

[fourstagesinoneday]

"The site now runs with a content management system. You might assume that this slows down the site but from the tests we’ve run the site is actually quicker at loading than ever before."

In my personal experience it has gone (on PC and mobile) from one of the fastest loading websites I regularly used to by far and away the slowest. And that's if it loads at all on my mobile phone. And this ignores the unusability of the site due to missing links etc and some of the design issues others have mentioned.

 

[ElChingon]

Guys,

Just clearing up the contact issue - there's two addresses you need to know redesign@cyclingnews.com and cyclingnews@cyclingnews.com.

No, lets keep the discussion her guys (non-CN staff). Its in the open were we can all see whats going on. Sending e-mails only hides the issues and keeps us in the dark, much like the UCI does so lets not repeat that fiasco.

 

[ianfra]

Greg

Look mate, you are in denial.
Hundreds of complaints.
You lost the sprint ... you haven't won this race so just pull out and revert to something closer to the orginal. Hundreds of posters here and on other forums can't be wrong. And why have we all suddenly had to register (reregister?) for the forum - is that to cut down on the number of complaints?

Other users: What site can we all now migrate to where we can get this level of information presented in a useable format? Any suggestions.

 

[Greg Johnson]

No, lets keep the discussion her guys (non-CN staff). Its in the open were we can all see whats going on. Sending e-mails only hides the issues and keeps us in the dark, much like the UCI does so lets not repeat that fiasco.

ElChingon,

People have requested the contact, I've provided it. Move on.

We have a nearly 40-strong page thread of mostly criticisms and we're encouraging more feedback. I can't really see how this counts as hiding issues.

All I've asked for is screen shots to be e-mailed to the developer's e-mail address as its easier - for those who aren't as forum savvy and can't place images in posts - to ensure their voice is heard and issues with the new website are address.

Thanks
Greg Johnson

 

[Anonymous]

ElChingon,
All I've asked for is screen shots to be e-mailed to the developer's e-mail address as its easier - particularly for those who aren't as forum savvy - to ensure their voice is heard and issues with the new website are address.

Thanks
Greg Johnson

if theyre arent forum savvy do you reckon the can do a screen shot... ?

you like the new design dont you greg..

im going to bed anyway.. im bored with screenshots.. im gonna write a stylesheet tommoro and just overrule the formatting myself.. (well what it will let me bearing in mind theyve used about 7 stylesheets on the homepage.. but i can try)

edit..

yeay.. new news page. now all i need to do is strip the pictures out and its back roughly to how it used to be.. Homepage next..

 

[Greg Johnson]

if theyre arent forum savvy do you reckon the can do a screen shot... ?

Touché. http://take-a-screenshot.org/

Cheers
Greg Johnson

 

[XasTandem]

Just one more vote for getting rid of the spoilers. If I can't visit the CN homepage without having the races I haven't watched yet spoiled for me, then I'm not going to visit it.

And, while they usually do of course, the sad fact is that it sometimes happens that my friends don't finish in the top 10. If I can't easily access a legible results sheet - that shows where everyone finished, who DNFd, etc., then I've got no reason to visit CN at all ...

 

[slyrider]

ElChingon,

People have requested the contact, I've provided it. Move on.

We have a nearly 40-strong page thread of mostly criticisms and we're encouraging more feedback. I can't really see how this counts as hiding issues.

All I've asked for is screen shots to be e-mailed to the developer's e-mail address as its easier - for those who aren't as forum savvy and can't place images in posts - to ensure their voice is heard and issues with the new website are address.

Thanks
Greg Johnson

Look mate, you are in denial.
Hundreds of complaints.
You lost the sprint ... you haven't won this race so just pull out and revert to something closer to the orginal. Hundreds of posters here and on other forums can't be wrong. And why have we all suddenly had to register (reregister?) for the forum - is that to cut down on the number of complaints?

Other users: What site can we all now migrate to where we can get this level of information presented in a useable format? Any suggestions.

Greg, at what point will CN stop sitting on their hands "encouraging more feedback" and "move on" to take action as per ianfra's post?

I agree with the ground swell opinion that the simplicity of info delivery from the old format and the no-spoiler approach is the right way to go.

I can't help reflect on the SBS (Australian TV station) coverage of the Giro this year. Initially they had the race being called by an Irish commentator who apparently had a soccer background and was a fish out of water. SBS responded to public outcry and quickly ousted the Irishmen to replace him with a Journo and a previous Giro rider. They restored public confidence through positive action.

At the moment, CN is risking losing public confidence and a substantial support base by not communicating their intentions clearly. At the moment I get the feeling (possibly incorrectly) that the CN readership / following is simply being ignored and ever so slightly patronised.

So, what's the timeline for CN's action plan? When is the decision point to stick with the new, roll back to the old or do something different?

 

[tester]

Performance

It took 22 seconds for the Results page to load today from my work computer. This is a high end computer with exceptional connectivity and high speed connection. The old site never took more than 1 second to load with the same setup. The pages were loading from 5 to 22 seconds with about 8 seconds the norm. Not only is it slow, I have to go thru 4 steps to see the results for the stage and the GC. This kind of performance is not acceptable.

 

[Matthewtoo]

Where is it now??

Am a keen follower of the site but now am lost. Can't find a map of any major stage race, where is the TDF??

 

[jmo001]

Mobile phone???

Still no answer from CN staff on what's happening re loading from a mobile.
I USED to acces CN from my mobile but now can't... Is something happening on this front? I would imagine there would be heaps in my boat!

 

[Toonser]

Like most of the posters here I have to be honest and say I preferred the previous incarnation of CN, but I've blocked nearly all of the new features which irritated me (e.g. the carousel and the sunflowers). That's made it a bit more usable, but unfortunately the one thing I can't block is the results spoilers

Specific usability problems I've found:

1) Race reports (e.g. http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/73rd-tour-de-suisse-2009-upt/stages/stage-4/report). Apart from me not liking it, the top 10 limit on each category is broken. The "Show" and "more" links do exactly the same thing. Get rid of the second one. Click either of them under the "Results" block, scroll down and then click on "Hide" ("more" is superfluous, but if you're aiming for consistency why no "less"?). When the page redraws you're now positioned at the bottom and have to manually scroll back up to where you originally were.

2) Middle clicking on the CN logo on any page used to open a new home page tab. The forum has an image banner so it still does that. Everywhere else I've tried has a Flash banner and a middle click puts you into mouse scroll mode (which I've always hated).

 

[sfgrandprix]

There is another frequently-stated aspect of the comments here that I think bears mentioning again, namely the unique character of the "old" Cyclingnews in relation to the other available cycling-related sites on the web. I must admit that I, too am unfamiliar with most of the alternatives that other people here have listed, simply because I have not felt the need to seek them out, at least not in many years. Everything I ever needed was readily available here in a format that I found remarkably pleasant, intelligent and trustworthy.

At the risk of being labeled nostalgic (as if that were a bad thing), I have a fond association with Cyclingnews from its days as a scrappy, low budget Australian website that managed to become the default source for the entire English-speaking cycling community through the sheer determination and passion of its tiny staff. It was a great success story that I have always taken some pride in.

In other words, I am brand loyal. That may sound to some like a lame business school term, detached from reality, but it's no laughing matter. I deal with issues of brand identity every day in my line of work and whatever you may think of all that evil corporate marketing represents, I assure you it is a very important concept and the stakes are very high. To use another business school cliche, brand loyalty is very difficult to achieve but very easy to lose.

I have followed the various iterations of Cyclingnews over the years and I am aware of the company being sold and the changes in management. That does not bother me at all. I've never had any problem with any of the previous redesigns and I suspect most people here haven't either. This time is much different. You are placing your brand identity at great risk. You need to take a hard look and ask yourselves, what is the true value of that brand, what does it represent to you?

 

[Greg Johnson]

Guys,

Another quick update - the visited link colour has now been changed. It is quiet light in colour once visited, so I'd appreciate people's thoughts on whether it's too light or okay as it is. This makes it much easier to see where you've been on the homepage.

Toonser - (1) The race section functionality is being re-built, so sit tight on that one. (2) Interesting point. I'd not noted that as I always left click. I'm not sure if there's anything we can do about that but I will ask.

Cheers
Greg Johnson

 

[titan_90]

What I believe needs to be changed with the redesign.
You guys need to understand that cyclingnews was different then the other cycling news site that's what made it so popular the redesign has made it into a clone of all the other sites.
First up the Homepage.

Old site: It was neat, simple, concise and spoiler free. With no annoying flash carousel. It was perfect IMHO as well as others.

New site:
First off the spoilers need to go. Have a separate page for people who want race results immediately or have an option to turn off spoilers.
The navigation tabs on the top are fine.
Dump the flash carousel or have an option to turn it off as it's distracting.
Get rid of the background image and let the page take up the entire width it's distracting.
In the Races & Results column let the races and results take up the entire length of the column as before, I would dump the Forum section under it and the Latest Photos section you have these on their own sections it's redundant and clutters the page up or put it in the third column on the bottom.
Everything doesn't need to be underlined.
The News Editions where my favorite feature of the old site. I understand you guys want to do immediate news updates but it just clutters everything up, what was wrong with the “Cycling News Flash”? Bring the News Editions to the top of the News section.
I like the Tech Section where it is now.
I think the Feature Section would be better if it was under or above the Tech Section.
The Blog Section is fine where it is.
Three columns work OK for the Home Page but every other page needs to be only two columns as I suggested for the news articles in another post as it is a annoying design.
I don't like the double spacing, single spacing is your friend.
Basically I think your Races and Results page with the above suggestions would be a better Home Page design then the current Home Page.

I'll give my suggestions on the other pages later when I have more time.

 

[titan_90]

Guys,

Another quick update - the visited link colour has now been changed. It is quiet light in colour once visited, so I'd appreciate people's thoughts on whether it's too light or okay as it is. This makes it much easier to see where you've been on the homepage.

Much better, I don't think it is too light.

 

[morephyous]

Thank you CN for this update. This design will allow me to get a life and spend more time on the bike than waste my life on your site and looking at the ads. Will now spend the rest of my free time at Pez & Velo.

I absolutely detest Bikeradar and its format. Yes, looks nice from a graphics and management perspective. Easy to promote internally @ Future and with advertisers but a total fail in terms of usability in terms of quickly identifying info.

This site started going downwards when you stopped updating local race results. The core readership are racers, and their mates, who then recommend other readers to the site. Newbies will go to sites such as Bikeradar!

Either someone will start a new site in a simple text format, or this site will suffer a slow death.

I would pay for a site with no ads in the 2006/7 design, and I'm guessing most here would. Make it cost the same as a yearly magazine subscription.

I know the management staff have spent a lot of capital on this new design, and it's far too late to change back as their arses are on the line, but really, did you guys read CN before you started working here?

Good luck with it, and thanks for giving me more time to ride and look at the wonderful culinary delights on Pez.

 

[scooter]

I find the new website infuriating to use. It is unnecessarily complex, The old format with the twice a day news dumps, i stories one right after the other was so much simpler and elegant.
I stayed away from Velonews because of the clutter on their front page, now cyclingnews is just as cluttered. On this new site I feel like I am going to miss a piece of news/excellent reporting i have come to rely one from cycling news because there is simply STUFF EVERYWHERE.