- Status
totally agree
Right on. I agree. Even as vested as I am after 5-10 years of solely using this site for my bike race news I would rather look elsewhere then deal with "getting used to" a clunky new format that has none of the appeal that brought me to this site in the first place.
khayes100 said:
Right on. I agree. Even as vested as I am after 5-10 years of solely using this site for my bike race news I would rather look elsewhere then deal with "getting used to" a clunky new format that has none of the appeal that brought me to this site in the first place.
for the love of God, please bring it back!
I tried sending an email to the "contacts" link, but alas like many things on the new site it's a dead end (bounced) - so I'll post it here:
To: <Cyclingnews@futurenet.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 12:33:33 -0500
Subject: web site problems
Okay, so I admit sometimes I don't like change, but I approached your new web layout with at least an attempt at an open mind.
But quite honestly you’ve take a big jump backward. It’s flashy but very difficult to use and more complex rather than simpler. It takes many more clicks to navigate to what you use to be able to find in just a few. Take a page out of the Apple and Google interfaces – less is more.
Problems I’ve found:
1. Photos – finding them is difficult. Why can’t you get to them from the report like you used to? Once I did find the Tour de Suisse gallery, when you click on a photo it allows you to go to previous but not next.
2. Page is fixed width rather than fills the format of my 16:9 screen. Those side bars just waste usable space.
3. Where did the list of race results go at the home page? Now there’s just the few current ones with no apparent way to get to past results.
4. Also now you annouce the race winner up front - I want to read the live report and find out who's won when I get to the end - this is a MAJOR problem.
5. Why did you get rid of the race result links on the home page for each race? Again, more clicks to get to what I want – frustrating!
6. What happened to race route and profiles? I can’t find them.
7. Obviously it seems you launched this too soon, stuff is missing, text overlaps in many places.
Sorry to be a pain in the *** but I’m a VERY frequent user of your site and I’m really not liking what I see…
I tried sending an email to the "contacts" link, but alas like many things on the new site it's a dead end (bounced) - so I'll post it here:
To: <Cyclingnews@futurenet.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 12:33:33 -0500
Subject: web site problems
Okay, so I admit sometimes I don't like change, but I approached your new web layout with at least an attempt at an open mind.
But quite honestly you’ve take a big jump backward. It’s flashy but very difficult to use and more complex rather than simpler. It takes many more clicks to navigate to what you use to be able to find in just a few. Take a page out of the Apple and Google interfaces – less is more.
Problems I’ve found:
1. Photos – finding them is difficult. Why can’t you get to them from the report like you used to? Once I did find the Tour de Suisse gallery, when you click on a photo it allows you to go to previous but not next.
2. Page is fixed width rather than fills the format of my 16:9 screen. Those side bars just waste usable space.
3. Where did the list of race results go at the home page? Now there’s just the few current ones with no apparent way to get to past results.
4. Also now you annouce the race winner up front - I want to read the live report and find out who's won when I get to the end - this is a MAJOR problem.
5. Why did you get rid of the race result links on the home page for each race? Again, more clicks to get to what I want – frustrating!
6. What happened to race route and profiles? I can’t find them.
7. Obviously it seems you launched this too soon, stuff is missing, text overlaps in many places.
Sorry to be a pain in the *** but I’m a VERY frequent user of your site and I’m really not liking what I see…
Yeah, the "show more" feature on results is REALLY annoying and not at all user friendly. I write summary reports of races, so to have to go every day to every stage to so many different pages is going to double the amount of time I put into it.
Thank god for quick and snappy sites out there still....I'll stick with chaoscyclingclub, missingsaddle, and velonews i guess.
Thank god for quick and snappy sites out there still....I'll stick with chaoscyclingclub, missingsaddle, and velonews i guess.
I have to say I am not one for signing up to forums, but looking at the new site website repulses me. I used to read cyclingnews multiple times a day but I think that will become a thing of the past. Why not just combine the site with the bikeradar site as it looks like you are partially there already.
Hey everyone,
Firstly, thanks for all your feedback. It's greatly appreciated and is taken into account. Please keep it coming.
I'll address a few of the more common issues mentioned.
News editions - I have previously mentioned, but understand many won't have read all 13 pages of this thread, that the website will continue to have news editions. We will be posting news items individually so we're not limited to when we can post the latest news - we can post it as it happens - but will be compiled into first edition and latest edition news throughout the day. As many have noted, the last edition is April 15. This will change hopefully later today. There's a few bugs in the system used to compile editions, but it's not too far away.
Multiple race pages - Many have noted the issue which currently means you click through from the homepage to a couple of headlines. We're using a work around on this for the major races at the moment, but there is a solution for this which has been developed but hadn't been tested enough to deploy when we launched. Once finished, you will click through to a page that has both the report and results on.
RSS - The new website does indeed have RSS functionality. I believe its one of the features mentioned in Daniel's item on the homepage that will be rolled out over coming days.
Calendars - These are a part of the features yet to be rolled out and will have an obvious impact on the ability to find races etc.
CN archive - The old website will indeed remain as an archive.
I'd love to respond to all the issues mentioned but obviously I'm also busy with the development guys bringing this feedback to them as well as testing the functionality ahead of further roll outs. In time, hopefully I will be able to address more of the issues raised.
As I mentioned though, please keep the feedback coming.
Cheers
Greg Johnson
Firstly, thanks for all your feedback. It's greatly appreciated and is taken into account. Please keep it coming.
I'll address a few of the more common issues mentioned.
News editions - I have previously mentioned, but understand many won't have read all 13 pages of this thread, that the website will continue to have news editions. We will be posting news items individually so we're not limited to when we can post the latest news - we can post it as it happens - but will be compiled into first edition and latest edition news throughout the day. As many have noted, the last edition is April 15. This will change hopefully later today. There's a few bugs in the system used to compile editions, but it's not too far away.
Multiple race pages - Many have noted the issue which currently means you click through from the homepage to a couple of headlines. We're using a work around on this for the major races at the moment, but there is a solution for this which has been developed but hadn't been tested enough to deploy when we launched. Once finished, you will click through to a page that has both the report and results on.
RSS - The new website does indeed have RSS functionality. I believe its one of the features mentioned in Daniel's item on the homepage that will be rolled out over coming days.
Calendars - These are a part of the features yet to be rolled out and will have an obvious impact on the ability to find races etc.
CN archive - The old website will indeed remain as an archive.
I'd love to respond to all the issues mentioned but obviously I'm also busy with the development guys bringing this feedback to them as well as testing the functionality ahead of further roll outs. In time, hopefully I will be able to address more of the issues raised.
As I mentioned though, please keep the feedback coming.
Cheers
Greg Johnson
when it comes down to it for me... when the new website was announced i had certain misgivings..
these misgivings are coming from someone who does know a little about good web design, a little bit about what consumers like, and a bit of internet experience (anyone remember when your modem involved two rubber holders and you plugged your phone receiver into them).. i had certain ideas of what i would not like to see in a well designed "NEWS" site which is what it is..
basically every bad idea i did not want to see has been successfully (or is it unsuccessfully incorporated) into the new site..
vast quantities of white space
badly designed navigation
unnecessary use of flash (so 2002)
cumbersome load times
the news report is frankly awful (titles and author repeated four times, massive white areas, text in 30% columns down the left hand side)
spoilers
inconsistent design (pictures with some races, not with others)
bad use of shading and fonts
disjointed design (the front page really is a mess)
completely unnecessary graphics, & backgrounds
poor attention to mobile browsing
and thats my last thought on the matter
oh apart from.. just where are these rss feeds cos i cant find them..
these misgivings are coming from someone who does know a little about good web design, a little bit about what consumers like, and a bit of internet experience (anyone remember when your modem involved two rubber holders and you plugged your phone receiver into them).. i had certain ideas of what i would not like to see in a well designed "NEWS" site which is what it is..
basically every bad idea i did not want to see has been successfully (or is it unsuccessfully incorporated) into the new site..
vast quantities of white space
badly designed navigation
unnecessary use of flash (so 2002)
cumbersome load times
the news report is frankly awful (titles and author repeated four times, massive white areas, text in 30% columns down the left hand side)
spoilers
inconsistent design (pictures with some races, not with others)
bad use of shading and fonts
disjointed design (the front page really is a mess)
completely unnecessary graphics, & backgrounds
poor attention to mobile browsing
and thats my last thought on the matter
oh apart from.. just where are these rss feeds cos i cant find them..
New Web Site
I hate the "new" look and find it NOT easy to find what I want. In fact I hated the "new" look that was, before this one. I really liked the look and navigation of CN two upgrades back. Why are you doing this, it wasn't broke so why are you trying to "fix it"! I don't think I will be visiting CN very much in the future. Will depend on other cycling sites from now on.
I hate the "new" look and find it NOT easy to find what I want. In fact I hated the "new" look that was, before this one. I really liked the look and navigation of CN two upgrades back. Why are you doing this, it wasn't broke so why are you trying to "fix it"! I don't think I will be visiting CN very much in the future. Will depend on other cycling sites from now on.
don't like it
I have poked around all day on the new site and quite frankly I don't like it.
It is too slow - full of spoilers and takes too many clicks to find what I want, oh yah and all my old links are broken.
I realize that Daniel Benson is probably married to this atrocity despite the overwhelming negative feedback so I suggest that they keep the old format and the new format for a trial period and see which one viewers spend more time on.
I can assure you I will find an alternative if it stays this way.
Sorry - Daniel and Greg - you failed miserably.
I have poked around all day on the new site and quite frankly I don't like it.
It is too slow - full of spoilers and takes too many clicks to find what I want, oh yah and all my old links are broken.
I realize that Daniel Benson is probably married to this atrocity despite the overwhelming negative feedback so I suggest that they keep the old format and the new format for a trial period and see which one viewers spend more time on.
I can assure you I will find an alternative if it stays this way.
Sorry - Daniel and Greg - you failed miserably.
I hate it too
I just became a forum member just to say I hate it too. Cyclingnews is supposed to be about content not clever animations. For me it was a quick cycling fix while at work. but now it is anything but quick.
I also used to like having no headline in the race results so I could read the live report blissfully unaware of the result.
I just became a forum member just to say I hate it too. Cyclingnews is supposed to be about content not clever animations. For me it was a quick cycling fix while at work. but now it is anything but quick.
I also used to like having no headline in the race results so I could read the live report blissfully unaware of the result.
The new design will take some getting used to. I will be curious to see how they implement the RSS feeds. Most cycling news sites only have one aggregate feed. I would like to see feeds for each discipline.
please address main complaints
Greg, I guess I'm one of the few that have read all 13 pages of this thread. In this post you've addressed some site glitches and relocated content, but not some of the core concerns folks have voiced many times over:
1. old site was popular because it was minimalistic, easy to navigate, and each page had more content
2. new site is a spoiler, many have stated they won't be back
3. new site is much slower due to flash
4. new site is non-mobile friendly, and doesn't work with some browsers as it did in the past
5. overwhelming response is that folks want the old site back
Seems you have a mutiny on your hands. I'd like to ask you respond to these bigger issues. If you do you might stem the bleeding which is the fall out of your loyal base. Like others, I'm a bit shell shocked, this is not the direction I'd hoped cyclingnews would take. I don't think you've fully realized the value of what the old site provided.
Greg, I guess I'm one of the few that have read all 13 pages of this thread. In this post you've addressed some site glitches and relocated content, but not some of the core concerns folks have voiced many times over:
1. old site was popular because it was minimalistic, easy to navigate, and each page had more content
2. new site is a spoiler, many have stated they won't be back
3. new site is much slower due to flash
4. new site is non-mobile friendly, and doesn't work with some browsers as it did in the past
5. overwhelming response is that folks want the old site back
Seems you have a mutiny on your hands. I'd like to ask you respond to these bigger issues. If you do you might stem the bleeding which is the fall out of your loyal base. Like others, I'm a bit shell shocked, this is not the direction I'd hoped cyclingnews would take. I don't think you've fully realized the value of what the old site provided.
Greg Johnson said:
ok..was going to be my final word but there is more...
just tested it using my vodaphone dongle that i use on the road...
pointless..
so i ran a speedtest on the site...
30 seconds on a t1 connection.. so pretty poor...
too many objects
too many images
too much css
total size 1344689 bytes (5 minutes on a dialup modem)
17 external scripts
too much bandwidth in images
too much javascript
the main css stylesheet is uncompressed and oversized, in fact none of the css or main html has been compressed, and none of the scripts have either
(nearly 300,000bytes could be saved by compression alone - over 10% of the size)
several the pictures (notable ads) are missing size attributes
notably ads account for half of the main homepages size
no wonder it runs like a slug..
just tested it using my vodaphone dongle that i use on the road...
pointless..
so i ran a speedtest on the site...
30 seconds on a t1 connection.. so pretty poor...
too many objects
too many images
too much css
total size 1344689 bytes (5 minutes on a dialup modem)
17 external scripts
too much bandwidth in images
too much javascript
the main css stylesheet is uncompressed and oversized, in fact none of the css or main html has been compressed, and none of the scripts have either
(nearly 300,000bytes could be saved by compression alone - over 10% of the size)
several the pictures (notable ads) are missing size attributes
notably ads account for half of the main homepages size
no wonder it runs like a slug..
I pride myself on being open minded and I have worked with the new format at length. Sorry, it is too complex to arrive at the information I am used to receiving in a consolidated way.
It's no longer a simple review. It may be some programmer's dream, but eliminate the flashiness and go back to the basics.
Clearly it has bombed.
It's no longer a simple review. It may be some programmer's dream, but eliminate the flashiness and go back to the basics.
Clearly it has bombed.
No offence but I loathe all the animated content. I feel like I'm trapped in a room with 10 televisions screening different Harvey Norman ads (Australians will know what I mean).
A word in your ear Greg!
Greg:
I have never read such overwhelming negative reviews of a website.
You have no option but to pull it and revert to the old site.
Please!
Please!
Please!
You see we all love the content but the presentation is awful.
Have you ever been to a town for the first time and tried to follow the signposts? You got lost - but why, when it is signposted? The answer Greg is that the people who designed the signposts knew where they were going. It takes an outsider to signpost successfully. The website should have been road tested with users - if it had of been then designers (who design for themselves because they know where they are going) could have been guided in the right direction.
It takes a brave man to admit failure.......
Greg:
I have never read such overwhelming negative reviews of a website.
You have no option but to pull it and revert to the old site.
Please!
Please!
Please!
You see we all love the content but the presentation is awful.
Have you ever been to a town for the first time and tried to follow the signposts? You got lost - but why, when it is signposted? The answer Greg is that the people who designed the signposts knew where they were going. It takes an outsider to signpost successfully. The website should have been road tested with users - if it had of been then designers (who design for themselves because they know where they are going) could have been guided in the right direction.
It takes a brave man to admit failure.......
Say it ain't so!
I logged onto the CN site today for my daily fix of bike lore...
Felt like I'd just seen my dog run over by a truck...like I'd just had a dear friend die a grisly and painful death. I'm going through those stages of grief: shock and remorse. But I don't think I'll ever get to the place where I get over it.
Looking at the new, improved site has quite literally made me sick.
CyclingNews has been my #1 default setting for cycling news for years. I visit multiple times a day. What has set it apart from ALL the other sites has been its simple, easy-to-navigate, easy-on-the-eyes format.
Now all that is gone, swept away by a tsunami of bad taste and glitzy, flashy garbage. There really is no way to overstate this: you have just committed a very public act of commercial suicide.
Many others in this forum--some with extensive web design chops--have already enumerated the failings of the new site. I can't address the tech side of it, but will just note a few things others already have...
• Way too gaudy and flashy. Navigation is klunky. It's bad enough that your sponsors feel the need to have their banners blinking on and off and bopping around endlessly. Now you have to do it too? In the big, fat, middle of the page? Do you have any idea how irritating it is, when you're trying to read something, and all around the copy block, lights are flashing and photos are winking in and out of focus? Anyone who thinks this constitutes good design has a head full of rocks.
• Where did the Live Coverage go? Anytime I couldn't get TV or streaming video on a stage, following along in your live descriptions was the next best thing...great fun, and often full of little details that didn't make the final report on the stage.
• Whose bright idea is it to announce the winner in the title bar? See above item about enjoying the suspense of reading along in the Live Coverage.
• What happened to your contact address, where we could write you notes about your content? Just a week or so ago, I had a pleasant exchange of e-mails with one of your writers about some roads in the Giro. It was nice...like there are real people at CN whom we can talk to. Now? I looked everywhere on new site, and I didn't see a "Contact us" link anywhere. Don't you want to chat with your readers anymore?
Lots more gripes of the same sort, but others have already mentioned them. I'm just adding my 2 cents' worth in the hope that weight of public opinion will force a rethink on the part of the site managers. Not likely, I expect. They have a lot of time and energy invested in this change and won't want to admit they absolutely laid an egg.
Hey, as angry and frustrated as I am about this, I still feel some compassion for the folks who did this. Nobody likes to be told they failed after they worked hard on something. But, sadly, there really is no other way to spin this. It's just a complete disaster, from start to finish.
So beginning today, my search begins for a new site for racing news.
For whatever it's worth, my views on this come with some design sense behind them: I've been a commercial illustrator and graphic designer for over 30 years. I know good design when I see it...this is not good design.
I also write a monthly column about cycling at BikeCal.com called On The Road...
http://bikecal.com/index.asp
I know what my July column is going to be about now: the total destruction of my favorite bike site.
Bill Oetinger
I logged onto the CN site today for my daily fix of bike lore...
Felt like I'd just seen my dog run over by a truck...like I'd just had a dear friend die a grisly and painful death. I'm going through those stages of grief: shock and remorse. But I don't think I'll ever get to the place where I get over it.
Looking at the new, improved site has quite literally made me sick.
CyclingNews has been my #1 default setting for cycling news for years. I visit multiple times a day. What has set it apart from ALL the other sites has been its simple, easy-to-navigate, easy-on-the-eyes format.
Now all that is gone, swept away by a tsunami of bad taste and glitzy, flashy garbage. There really is no way to overstate this: you have just committed a very public act of commercial suicide.
Many others in this forum--some with extensive web design chops--have already enumerated the failings of the new site. I can't address the tech side of it, but will just note a few things others already have...
• Way too gaudy and flashy. Navigation is klunky. It's bad enough that your sponsors feel the need to have their banners blinking on and off and bopping around endlessly. Now you have to do it too? In the big, fat, middle of the page? Do you have any idea how irritating it is, when you're trying to read something, and all around the copy block, lights are flashing and photos are winking in and out of focus? Anyone who thinks this constitutes good design has a head full of rocks.
• Where did the Live Coverage go? Anytime I couldn't get TV or streaming video on a stage, following along in your live descriptions was the next best thing...great fun, and often full of little details that didn't make the final report on the stage.
• Whose bright idea is it to announce the winner in the title bar? See above item about enjoying the suspense of reading along in the Live Coverage.
• What happened to your contact address, where we could write you notes about your content? Just a week or so ago, I had a pleasant exchange of e-mails with one of your writers about some roads in the Giro. It was nice...like there are real people at CN whom we can talk to. Now? I looked everywhere on new site, and I didn't see a "Contact us" link anywhere. Don't you want to chat with your readers anymore?
Lots more gripes of the same sort, but others have already mentioned them. I'm just adding my 2 cents' worth in the hope that weight of public opinion will force a rethink on the part of the site managers. Not likely, I expect. They have a lot of time and energy invested in this change and won't want to admit they absolutely laid an egg.
Hey, as angry and frustrated as I am about this, I still feel some compassion for the folks who did this. Nobody likes to be told they failed after they worked hard on something. But, sadly, there really is no other way to spin this. It's just a complete disaster, from start to finish.
So beginning today, my search begins for a new site for racing news.
For whatever it's worth, my views on this come with some design sense behind them: I've been a commercial illustrator and graphic designer for over 30 years. I know good design when I see it...this is not good design.
I also write a monthly column about cycling at BikeCal.com called On The Road...
http://bikecal.com/index.asp
I know what my July column is going to be about now: the total destruction of my favorite bike site.
Bill Oetinger
No full results? That is one of the worst decisions you could have made. Terrible. I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, but one of the main reasons I like your site is the information (even thought your start lists are notoriously wrong). If being more like VeloNews is your goal, you are on target. If not, I suggest making some tweaks.
- Mar 10, 2009
- 6,158
- 1
- 0
jbeyer said:
Hey CN! As a new feature request can we have the DNS name autobus.cyclingnews.com renamed to http://www.cyclingnews.com and have the current http://www.cyclingnews.com renamed to terrible.cyclingnews.com
Requires minimal code change!
THANKS!
- Mar 10, 2009
- 6,158
- 1
- 0
Really though, how about moving the new site to a separate URL so you can fully test it out before releasing like most companies do so they don't ruin their reputation with a terrible site. Not to mention losing customers/viewers? Imagine being able to test things out before breaking them in the view of everyone?
and another thing...
I tried again to see if the changes will serve me and I can now say with absolute conviction that if you continue to post stories with spoiler headlines and condensed results then I have no use for your website.
I wonder if your sponsors read these forums...
I tried again to see if the changes will serve me and I can now say with absolute conviction that if you continue to post stories with spoiler headlines and condensed results then I have no use for your website.
I wonder if your sponsors read these forums...
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