New site design

Page 17 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
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Jun 17, 2009
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Wtf

Editor's comments

"In fact, so many elements of the redesign will have greater functionality and navigation"

My comments to the CN editor

Were people asking for this?
If I, a long time CN addict was asked how to improve the CN cite. I wouldn't have known what to improve. Your coverage is very broad and excellent, Your live reports I follow religiously even if i am a few days behind in say the Dauphine I will enjoy the suspense of catching up via the Live reports. They are (were) awesome. You guys were the bomb and now I cant find anything in this new format. I really don't understand this decision. It is as if someone decided to reinvent the wheel and to make it look cooler they made four even cuts shearing off the out edges of the wheel so that you end up back in prehistoric times with a real clunker of a square wheel. Not so good. Good luck to you.
 
May 5, 2009
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tomlang said:
Until yesterday, i visited cyclingnews about 5 times a day. It "was my favorite cycling "news" site. It was simple and well organized. I'm busy and don't have time, nor do I want to browse around and. In short, I hate the new site. In my early morning group ride, several riders commented on how much they hate it. Why not give us a choice? http://www.cyclingnews.com and http://www.cyclingnews.com/new


I love this idea! Would it be possible to do that?...
 
Mar 20, 2009
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i hate the site.
the old looked outdated - BUT ATLEAST IT WORKED !!!

this is just plain horrible - my biggest complaint is the horrible
attempt at being stylistic with results etc. omg - just give me the
plain details without the fluff like it was before!
 
Mar 3, 2009
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manolo said:
Why is the text all scrunched up to the right?... It's ugly messy and totally unappealing! Yuck!

Manolo, dimspace,

On the topic of why there's so much white space in news editions - it's because there are content blocks that will be used throughout the year, that are not currently active in this spot. Things like live coverage notices etc. should appear in this space - but as we're not currently covering any events with the live system, there's no block there.

The same template is used for Pro Bikes - but here, as you have all the bike specifications, there's actually content in this space. See here: http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/thomas-frischknechts-scott-swisspower-scott-genius

I believe the current column structure is preventing us from making this flexible so that when a block is present, it displays like the tech item, and when it's not the news items are spread out further. Would it help if in lieu of a content block like a live coverage notice we had some other content blocks fill in this space? Maybe one with a list of current races another with latest features etc.?

Cheers
Greg Johnson
 
May 5, 2009
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miles ahead said:
... Strange that the CN staff should... provoke this sudden and massive surge of activity from... silent... faithful readers.
... Thanks... for dragging your feet... giving us at least [the] last year... Perhaps... now... we... realize that ... we were a blessed species inhabiting a sanctuary of substance, reliability, and functional simplicity.
... here we are, longing for free vistas on the site.

... Black text on white paper without fancy fonts. Clear, simple, less tiring, and more cost effective...
... CN users... have beend spoiled since time immemorial with the simple life of functional minimalism...

Great points. Great letter. Thanks. I'm on board with this!
 
May 5, 2009
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Where is the Live Coverage?...

Alexanderrios said:
The new design is absolutely awful. It takes forever to load, and where is the live coverage? The results are not posted in a simple format anymore, and that was one of the great features of this site. There is way too much on here, and its actually 'less' user friendly. I can't even bring up the stage details on my computer!
I never thought it would come to this, but I guess I'll be checking in with VELO NEWS from here on in..
Very, very dissapointed..

Where is the Live Coverage?...
 
Mar 11, 2009
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Greg Johnson said:
Manolo, dimspace,

On the topic of why there's so much white space in news editions - it's because there are content blocks that will be used throughout the year, that are not currently active in this spot. Things like live coverage notices etc. should appear in this space - but as we're not currently covering any events with the live system, there's no block there.

The same template is used for Pro Bikes - but here, as you have all the bike specifications, there's actually content in this space. See here: http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/thomas-frischknechts-scott-swisspower-scott-genius

I believe the current column structure is preventing us from making this flexible so that when a block is present, it displays like the tech item, and when it's not the news items are spread out further. Would it help if in lieu of a content block like a live coverage notice we had some other content blocks fill in this space? Maybe one with a list of current races another with latest features etc.?

Cheers
Greg Johnson

What about if the text goes all the way to the ads? As I said before three columns work for the Home Page but not on articles two would work better. The Pro Bike you linked is clutter with that middle column. It was better with all of the specifications on the bottom of the article. Plus bring back real thumbnail not these useless mini sized ones that no one can tell what it is.
 
May 5, 2009
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dkmo2341 said:
The old site was great. I loved the "Letters" section, couldn't wait for it every week. Searching around the forum takes to much time, so I don't bother anymore. Now the whole site is a pain. The first thing I used to do every morning was read the news top to bottom, now I don't have the time to be looking all over the place, clicking back and forth. I'll just scan every couple days to see something jumps out at me. I think you've made a big mistake. Sincerely, A Former Daily Reader.

This is quite a bonding experience. Everyone seems to be saying the same thing. I almost feel like creating a Facebook page to support fhe cause! :)
 
May 5, 2009
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djconnel said:
I agree. Consider the following scenario: I get home from a ride and want to watch the YouTube "final kilometer" without knowing the outcome. I want to check first, however, for the route profile. This was possible on the old site, but not in the new spoiler site, unless I google into it (or use the predictable nature of the URLs... which may no longer be predictable).

Imagine a movie site which labeled each movie with tag lines such as "the butler did it." Cycling is part news, part entertainment. Don't compare it to CNN or BBC reporting on meaningful current events.

Niice analogy!
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjaslim
"I'd pay a subscription if this site was put back to how it was. It was so damn good.

That'd be nice!! "

Sign me up for the old site.

I keep coming back and checking this thread to see if Greg et al. have received the message yet but alas it seems they have invested too much to ever admit failure. I accept their editorial discretion but it does not mean I will ever warm up to it, and specifically:

no spoilers - PLEASE
full results - PLEASE, I used to love scrolling down, instead now I am multiple clicks away - my attention span is too short to wait for all the flash to reload - that was the beauty of the old page: quick to load for those of us with slow internet or mobile devices. And despite what the braintrust thinks - I used the wireless on my Ipod touch to read cyclingnews every morning but you broke it

Its pretty clear that they have no intention of addressing the spoiler or results issue as it has been addressed here several times and they merrily ignore it.

Oh yah, I checked out the tech page Greg linked and there was an ad on the right hand side of the page covering up something that may have been a link but I'm not sure as only a small portion of the top of the underlying text was visible.

Greg - please restate your position on the spoilers? If this is a permanent change we need to know.
 
Jun 15, 2009
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Advice from a thoughtful CyclingNews fan

CN-

For what its worth, I have personally managed site redesigns for major TV networks and media outlets in the U.S. I currently run a company that measures the effectiveness of online advertising and online media, including site UI development and inventory monetization, so I understand all the motives and complications your teams face. I also used to race bikes, participated in the Olympics and raced for 7-11 and Motorola, and CN is how I stay in touch with the sport. In other words, like all of the people who spoke up on your forums, I am a Cyclingnews loyalist and am concerned about its fate.

Your redesign was well-intentioned and has many features that even this group of die-hards will eventually get used to and come to appreciate. However, I have never seen a mutiny of this magnitude among a core user group, and although I know it is tempting to steadfastly stick to your guns and see this through, it would be a bad idea for you and your advertisers to not think very hard about what you're hearing, and the implications of inaction.

As one sage user said, "It is very hard to build brand loyalty, but easy to lose it." This is especially true in online media, where your competition is but a click away. Your core audience is your bread and butter. Anyone who cares about this kind of content is already here, or will eventually hear about it from a core user. There is no "new audience". Your strength has always been in (as another user put it) your reliable, knowledgable, and trustworthy reporting on the many many dimensions of this amazing sport. You are so far ahead of the competition that this audience is yours to lose. You cannot dumb it down for some fictitious broader audience and expect to retain the real, lasting audience that drives your business.

A few themes clearly stick out in the 40 pages of criticism:
- Spoilers
- Live reports
- Simplicity of content access and navigation
- Depth of content (and again, easy access to that depth)
- Loading speed
- Mobile access

None of these are simply trivial design issues; they are critical to the utility of the site and access to its valuable and unique content. The redesign should have identified these as key objectives essential to retain and attract users. In the sit-forward medium of online, function needs to lead form.

Google is an amazing company for many reasons, but the one that is relevant to this situation is this: they embark on plenty of experiments, some requiring huge investments of capital and talent. But when they realize they have made a mistake, they do not hesitate to swallow their pride and move quickly to throw the thing in reverse and get back on track. CN can recapture equity and earn respect by responding to the overwhelming criticism and reverting to the "old site" until the criticism can be digested and, as appropriate, integrated into the new design. It's probably unthinkable for you, just 3 days into the new launch, but you have already started shedding users. You have already damaged brand loyalty by the way things have been handled on the forums. This act would be an act of deference to your audience while you sort out the next steps forward. (On the issue of redesign: There is always a pull for "onward and upward". But consider two of the biggest winners in the online space: Google and Craigslist. Pure utility and simplicity - which fits the medium. To me, CN used to be a Craigslist for cycling. Did you know they earn $120 million dollars with a 30 person staff? Can you imagine how many people would love to "redesign" CL? New is not necessarily better).

You are lucky to have an audience that speaks so loudly, so quickly. Usually users just abandon without a peep. That your audience would speak so loudly says a lot about the value of your content among the plethora of cycling information sites. Harley Davidson is a brand with such strong loyalty that people will get tattoos of the brand. In online media, the ultimate indicator of brand strength is home page designation and visits per day -- both of which you enjoy. Somehow you have managed to stand out and apart from the rest, so great care should be taken not to squander that market position.

If the redesign is driven by revenue goals, then that is important. But do not forget that what attracts advertisers is target audiences and engagement. Retaining those is the prime directive. There are many monetization strategies that can improve revenue and CPM without undermining your audience, which IS your product. One more time: your product is not your cycling content! It is your audience. That's what you sell, isn't it?

Please listen carefully to your audience. Do not let the momentum of the redesign effort and the personal and financial investments that have been made overwhelm the undeniable response from your user community. These cricitisms are not simple design issues; they are critical to your survival.

Scott McKinley
CEO, Factor TG
scottsmack@gmail.com
 
Mar 3, 2009
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I hate the new website said:
full results - PLEASE, I used to love scrolling down, instead now I am multiple clicks away - my attention span is too short to wait for all the flash to reload - that was the beauty of the old page: quick to load for those of us with slow internet or mobile devices. And despite what the braintrust thinks - I used the wireless on my Ipod touch to read cyclingnews every morning but you broke it

I've mentioned a few times now - the race sections are being re-built as there are a number of issues within - particularly the structure - of them. As a part of this process the comments regarding full results will be considered and we will update you after that takes place.

I hate the new website said:
Greg - please restate your position on the spoilers? If this is a permanent change we need to know.

I've been working on finding/addressing technical issues and testing of new functionality as it rolls out - such as the news editions and changes to visited link colours (plus a bunch of other things in the works). As a result I have not been involved with any discussions on this front.

Thanks
Greg Johnson
 
Jun 17, 2009
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Calling Daniel Benson

I joined the forums today just to speak to Daniel Benson. Sorry to say your new website is not one I would expect from cyclingnews. I changed my front page to Google (of all things) after many, many years of cyclingnews...what were you thinking, the old page was clear and you were able to follow the news (cyclingnews) this page is un-readable. I am sure it cost a bunch, but you got to think about your readers and loyal followers that are falling away as we speak. See what you can do to make the website easy to follow...we ride bikes I don't have time to spend hours trying to get the world news of our sport!
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Hi Greg, a quick note: I am unable to find any type of "about us" link on the new site, which I would consider a common courtesy of any professionally designed website, usually in the form of a simple text link at the very bottom of every page. The archived "autobus" page, clever name by the way, has this, and it's good. Thanks.
 
Jun 17, 2009
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I really don't see why you would go live on the 'new' site with so many problems, and a 'please let us know what we should do to improve it forum'. Just seems unprofessional.

Take a look at the Google search page. Nice and simple, nothing fancy. Old CN, same philosophy. New CN, you know how we all feel.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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manolo said:
That'd be nice!!

Greg Johnson said:
I've mentioned a few times now - the race sections are being re-built as there are a number of issues within - particularly the structure - of them. As a part of this process the comments regarding full results will be considered and we will update you after that takes place.



I've been working on finding/addressing technical issues and testing of new functionality as it rolls out - such as the news editions and changes to visited link colours (plus a bunch of other things in the works). As a result I have not been involved with any discussions on this front.

Thanks
Greg Johnson

Thank you for your prompt reply.
I am still hanging around, I even tried to play with the results to no avail - I ended up all over the place as results unrolled and shot me up and down the page as I tried to get them all opened up so I could compare GC and stage vs. mountain points etc. I left in frustration.
 
Jun 17, 2009
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Like many others, joined just to comment on the site. Glad I waited from yesterday though, as I'm much more sane now. Some thoughts.

1) You need a mobile version. Period. Please. Pretty please. Pretty please with whipped cream.

2) Next / previous should be included with news items.

3) Next / previous should be at the bottom of the edition.

4) HATE the spoilers. But I understand the need to update the site and include them in the main bar. Some people want the results and can go to the home page. I know a lot of people want them gone from the home page, but something tells me that won't happen. But I hope there is a way to satisfy all.

SO... first, understand the needs of the users. Most of us don't want to know the results for some valid reason, but want to come to the site for something. Some want to read the live report, some want the course profile, some want start lists with numbers.

Maybe there can be a trade-off - keep the banner with the results, but get rid of the 5 word sentence saying who won when describing the stage. "Full results, report & photos" was perfect. I understand the short sentence on a wide ranging site. ESPN gives a sentence to draw people in to a story, and they'll know by that line if they want to read further. Same with CNN, or BBC. Here, we're coming to get the results, and WILL read them when we're ready.

Heck, if you need the sentence, be creative without giving the ending away. "The final climb crushes." "Favorite bonks." "Yellow jersey changes hands." Heck, that would draw more people in to read than "Cavendish wins stage sprint." This way we could bookmark "Races & Results" if we think we want to wait before reading the report.

5) Minor - would love there to be a general link for latest news - the live report used to do it with http://www.cyclingnews.com/live.wap. Something like http://www.cyclingnews.com/editions/current would be wonderful.

6) Would like a text version of results and leaders.

Thank you.
 
Mar 12, 2009
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A voice of reason and experience

A really worthwhile read scottsmack:

scottsmack's views

It's extremely disappointing that a member of the CN editorial staff is online reading these posts but is only acknowledging rather banal issues such as points regarding format and colour choices.

Posts of substance that are attempting to engage with CN on the real issues of prime concern, are being ignored.

I fear CyclingNews, that every page of posts that you ignore could each potentially be a nail in your corporate coffin.

What is the point of setting up a forum where you can obtain real time interaction with your readership and then you proceed to pass up on the opportunity that it offers? If CN does nothing to positively respond, then everyone will lose and this would be extremely sad to see ... :(
 
Jun 17, 2009
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To Stefan Greg Daniel and the staff of cyclingnews and future publishing ltd

Amazing, fantastic, wonderful. Not your new design, but the over 400 posts I have just read. I had no idea I was part of a group that felt the same way. It took me a couple of days to join a forum, I don’t usually do this sort of thing, but tonight I removed cyclingnews from my home page (it has been there for many years) and joined a forum to complain about your new website and appalling design. I read all the posts and see there is some problem with your staff not understanding the brand loyalty built up over the years and what a terrible design to your site would do to normally well controlled readers. How you get back from here must be for your boardroom to decide. If I were you boss I would roll this back, scrap the expense, and think again. If it does not change I will be one loyal reader not to know the outcome, because I will be somewhere else. You might say that is shallow of me to drop you so quickly, buts that’s love. You made a mess and I want out. So please listen to your public, get the good Dr to tone down a little and the rest of you take a deep breath and put a stop to this thread with the words….”we will roll back and look at the problem (if there was one) again”. This will make your readership happy, cost you a lot of money (in the short term) but save your business in the long term.

Ps great read Scottsmack
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Greg Johnson said:
Manolo, dimspace,

On the topic of why there's so much white space in news editions - it's because there are content blocks that will be used throughout the year, that are not currently active in this spot. Things like live coverage notices etc. should appear in this space - but as we're not currently covering any events with the live system, there's no block there.

The same template is used for Pro Bikes - but here, as you have all the bike specifications, there's actually content in this space. See here: http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/thomas-frischknechts-scott-swisspower-scott-genius

I believe the current column structure is preventing us from making this flexible so that when a block is present, it displays like the tech item, and when it's not the news items are spread out further. Would it help if in lieu of a content block like a live coverage notice we had some other content blocks fill in this space? Maybe one with a list of current races another with latest features etc.?

Cheers
Greg Johnson

well the page you linked to is a mess greg to be fair... the middle column HAS TO GO...

consider the columns (or the daisys in the field).. where do you ever see columns of text...

yup.. in newspapers, newspapers where the whole page is open in front of you, where you read one column and then when done you read the next.. there it works..

on screen.. where to view the whole of the left column you have to scroll down, having a right column is a massive design faux pas.. its simply a no no.. the human eye cannot read 2 columns at once (unless you are remarkably gifted) so what do you do, scroll down reading one column, and then scroll back up.. read what is visisble of the two columns, scroll down, read a bit more, scroll down, read a bit more... the page you linked too, read the left article and try not to get distracted by the stuff on the right hand column, its impossible not too, it detracts from the story and is downright annoying frankly..

get rid of the archive box and put it to the top (and please put the previous and next issue buttons in the right order, having it as next and then previous is just, well, its anal in the highest level and effects my ocd.. ) if you want to put rider lists and things like that, put abbreviated forms in boxes and let the text flow around them as you would do with images, with options on the boxes to open them for more information.. and get rid of the double line space.. like i said before.. essays.. they are the only thing that needs double spacing..
 
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manolo said:
That'd be nice!!

i would actually consider paying a subscription for and AD FREE, FLASH FREE site..

im not sure bombarding us with ads, and flash, and then offering to take them away in return for payment would be terrible moral though.. ;)
 
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